[Codeblue]

Not bad. He probably has nest egg and can easily find another job. I feel bad for many of the low level people. :-(

I'm not worried about his welfare so much as I was thinking how much it would suck to leave a company for a different one, have your old employer buy your new one, then fire you.

[Buxaroo]

Guys this is obviously because of used game sales and the production costs of HD games and has nothing to do with bad practices and terrible management.

Dude! You forgot, it's the PIRACY as well!


Also, for those saying the industry is dying: tell that to Valve. And Bethesda. Bottom line: EA sucks, they buy up good companies and ass fuck them for all they are worth. Case in point: Bioware. Watch, SWTOR will go down the F2P route by Christmas or maybe next spring. The game is boring as shit. Endgame content is total shit. They spent $200-250 MILLION on this ffs. And we get voice acting? Play it safe and in the process STILL fuck up? None of you SW fanbuttbois give me any shit, I saw Star Wars in a theater in '77, I paid my dues for being a SW fan. I can and will talk shit about SW all I want. I paid $60+$30 for 2 months sub for TORtanic. Was the worst game investment I have made.

Hey, Skyrim has voice acting, except Skyrim is a good game. I don't see Bethesda going belly up. Oh that's right, they make good games. Who woulda thunk it? Battlefield 3 is the only EA game I still have installed on my computer. And I don't play it as much as I would want to (mainly because my C2D CPU sucks).

Also what's hurt sales is EA being greedy and wanting to cut Valve out of the picture by making BF3 and ME3 Origin-only. You know how many lost sales resulted from that? I bought BF3 reluctantly because I love the BF franchise. But other than that? Origin is a waste of space. I have 45 people added to my friends lost on Origin, everyone was hyped for BF3. Now? I never see anyone on Origin. But, I sure see a fuckload of them on Steam. EA thought they were going to be clever by making Origin and hoping to get people to come over from Steam. But no one wants to because there is zero reason. You can't buy other companies games (yet), there is no community or even a basis to get one really started. The GUI is limited with hardly any options to mess about with to change things. It's just a giant waste of effort.

And as one of the people said above me: it irks me that Kotickvision, oops I mean Activision, is doing really good while EA should be all rights being doing good with the companies they have bought up. But as usual when large corporations buy smaller ones, they ass fuck the smaller one to fit their shitty culture and totally forget why they bought them out in the first place. And I have first hand experience seeing how a large corporation buys a smaller one and just bleeds it dry over a couple of years where there is nothing left but a rotting husk.

ps, if I was an employee of a company that got bought out by a bigger company, especially one like EA, I would be looking for another job. It's just a matter of time.

[subversus]

ps, if I was an employee of a company that got bought out by a bigger company, especially one like EA, I would be looking for another job. It's just a matter of time.

a good post.

[Dice]

Dude! You forgot, it's the PIRACY as well!

That line belongs to Ubisoft more than EA.

[Reg]

ain't easy being a developer

[Odrion]

2012, the death of the game industry.

Watch it all burn.

[Moaradin]

Dude! You forgot, it's the PIRACY as well! Also, for those saying the industry is dying: tell that to Valve. And Bethesda. Bottom line: EA sucks, they buy up good companies and ass fuck them for all they are worth. Case in point: Bioware. Watch, SWTOR will go down the F2P route by Christmas or maybe next spring. The game is boring as shit. Endgame content is total shit. They spent $200-250 MILLION on this ffs. And we get voice acting? Play it safe and in the process STILL fuck up? None of you SW fanbuttbois give me any shit, I saw Star Wars in a theater in '77, I paid my dues for being a SW fan. I can and will talk shit about SW all I want. I paid $60+$30 for 2 months sub for TORtanic. Was the worst game investment I have made. Hey, Skyrim has voice acting, except Skyrim is a good game. I don't see Bethesda going belly up. Oh that's right, they make good games. Who woulda thunk it? Battlefield 3 is the only EA game I still have installed on my computer. And I don't play it as much as I would want to (mainly because my C2D CPU sucks). Also what's hurt sales is EA being greedy and wanting to cut Valve out of the picture by making BF3 and ME3 Origin-only. You know how many lost sales resulted from that? I bought BF3 reluctantly because I love the BF franchise. But other than that? Origin is a waste of space. I have 45 people added to my friends lost on Origin, everyone was hyped for BF3. Now? I never see anyone on Origin. But, I sure see a fuckload of them on Steam. EA thought they were going to be clever by making Origin and hoping to get people to come over from Steam. But no one wants to because there is zero reason. You can't buy other companies games (yet), there is no community or even a basis to get one really started. The GUI is limited with hardly any options to mess about with to change things. It's just a giant waste of effort. And as one of the people said above me: it irks me that Kotickvision, oops I mean Activision, is doing really good while EA should be all rights being doing good with the companies they have bought up. But as usual when large corporations buy smaller ones, they ass fuck the smaller one to fit their shitty culture and totally forget why they bought them out in the first place. And I have first hand experience seeing how a large corporation buys a smaller one and just bleeds it dry over a couple of years where there is nothing left but a rotting husk. ps, if I was an employee of a company that got bought out by a bigger company, especially one like EA, I would be looking for another job. It's just a matter of time.

There is so much wrong with this post.

[Opiate]

I see many publishers citing used game sales, piracy, and the economy, but very few blaming HD Development costs (one of the "excuses" listed earlier). HD Production costs are something we mention here, and something B developers mention, but not the big publishers.

This is because HD Development costs are, in theory, under the publisher's control, and failing to reign in costs would most definitely be the executive's fault. Take note that all of the explanations that publishers willingly offer are caused by things not under their control. Gamestop pushes used game sales; consumers pirate; the recession caused the economic problems. In this case, it isn't just psychologically pleasing to blame everyone else but themselves; it is professionally expedient. Executives who admit it's their fault lose bonuses or jobs.

[bishoptl]

There is so much wrong with this post.

like what?

[Visualante2]

I see many publishers citing used game sales, piracy, and the economy, but very few blaming HD Development costs (one of the "excuses" listed earlier). This is because HD Development costs are, in theory, under the publisher's control, and failing to reign in costs would most definitely be the executive's fault. Take note that all of the explanations that publishers offer are thing which are not under their control. Gamestop, consumers, and the economy in general are to blame (respectively, for used games, piracy, and the recession), but not them.

I label that all as terrible management of production. Wonder how Remedy made a premium game with such a small team.. apparently they managed their outsourcing exceptionally well. The tools have improved, it's possible to be agile, but not when you're managing some 800 person team in Montreal.

[Moaradin]

like what?

Like this:

fanbuttbois TORtanic Kotickvision

It read like something straight out of 4chan.

[Glass Rebel]

Like this: It read like something straight out of 4chan.

He's still right on most of the stuff though, even if the package is shit.

[Gomu Gomu]

Dear god, that article is truly depressing. EA is fuuuucked.

[Marty Chinn]

I see many publishers citing used game sales, piracy, and the economy, but very few blaming HD Development costs (one of the "excuses" listed earlier). HD Production costs are something we mention here, and something B developers mention, but not the big publishers. This is because HD Development costs are, in theory, under the publisher's control, and failing to reign in costs would most definitely be the executive's fault. Take note that all of the explanations that publishers willingly offer are caused by things not under their control. Gamestop pushes used game sales; consumers pirate; the recession caused the economic problems. In this case, it isn't just psychologically pleasing to blame everyone else but themselves; it is professionally expedient. Executives who admit it's their fault lose bonuses or jobs.

Yes, they have control over it, but at the same time they don't. HD Development costs are a result of expectations from the press and the consumers. To pull back on some of those things, could hurt sales too. It's a sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't situation now.

[AppleMIX]

He's still right on most of the stuff though, even if the package is shit.

How exactly is he right?

SWTOR has 1.7 million subs as of march and is in no danger of going F2P anytime soon. (Also subs have probably gone up because of the deals they're running and the release of 1.2)

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...tabilize-at-1/

SWTOR has over 200,000 lines of dialogue compared to Skyrims 60,000.

Explain to me how they're being greedy by putting there game on a platform that will result in less sales.

Also a game being exclusive to Origin is no different than a game being steamworks (the exception being Skyrim because of the workshop). One is just simply more popular than the other.

[Tideas]

I hope those people find jobs working for a corporate entity that is slightly less evil.

EA's evil for trying to make money?

[kafiend]

SWTOR has over 200,000 lines of dialogue compared to Skyrims 60,000.

A book with more pages is not automatically better then one with less.

[Moaradin]

Also a game being exclusive to Origin is no different than a game being steamworks (the exception being Skyrim because of the workshop). One is just simply more popular than the other.

SWTOR doesn't even use Origin DRM lol. Hell, you don't need to install Origin once to even play the game, retail or digitally.

A book with more pages is not automatically better then one with less.

The storylines in SWTOR are definitely higher quality than the Skyrim stories. Elder Scrolls was never known for it's high quality story. It's mostly just a fun sandbox game to dick around in.

[AppleMIX]

A book with more pages is not automatically better then one with less.

I never said SWTOR writing was better.

I was responding to "Hey, Skyrim has voice acting, except Skyrim is a good game."

It's a unfair comparison because SWTOR has over 3 times as much dialogue as skyrim.

SWTOR doesn't even use Origin DRM lol. Hell, you don't need to install Origin once to even play the game, retail or digitally. The storylines in SWTOR are definitely higher quality than the Skyrim stories. Elder Scrolls was never known for it's high quality story. It's mostly just a fun sandbox game to dick around in.

I forgot about the SWTOR/Origin thing.

[Opiate]

Yes, they have control over it, but at the same time they don't. HD Development costs are a result of expectations from the press and the consumers. To pull back on some of those things, could hurt sales too. It's a sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't situation now.

I don't really agree -- this all assumes they continue their laser like focus on the PS3/360 to the detriment of everything else. The big publishers remain consistently absent on the handheld systems; they never embraced the Wii and allowed it to sink, despite obvious, strong interest from consumers; Facebook and iOS have EA, but Ubisoft, Take 2, and Activision have all largely avoided those platforms thus far.

It would be understandable 10 years ago, when the traditional home console ecosystem represented something like 80% of the gaming market. But today? There are lots of other avenues, and most of these publishers seem to be incapable of harnessing any of these new opportunities.

[Ogrekiller]

Yes, they have control over it, but at the same time they don't. HD Development costs are a result of expectations from the press and the consumers. To pull back on some of those things, could hurt sales too. It's a sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't situation now.

It's called having self control.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if all these HD productions were as much a result of the developers pushing and demanding more money to fulfill their artistic needs and visions.

Customers didn't demand 512mb of ram from Microsoft in the 360 and got it; it was Epic who did that.

[SapientWolf]

I think EA hired up expecting current gen retail growth and it's just not there. And growth is the key word. Remaining stagnant but profitable isn't good enough for a public company. They purport to be creating more digital properties but it's too late for that to have an effect on this year's bottom line. They'll continue fish for a digital hit, but I expect them to start investing heavily in next gen soon if they haven't already. They've traditionally relied on AAA blockbusters with reliable sequel sales to create revenue.

[Glass Rebel]

How exactly is he right? SWTOR has 1.7 million subs as of march and is in no danger of going F2P anytime soon. (Also subs have probably gone up do the deals they're running and the release of 1.2) http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...tabilize-at-1/ SWTOR has over 200,000 lines of dialogue compared to Skyrims 60,000. Explain to me how they're being greedy by putting there game on a platform that will result in less sales. Also a game being exclusive to Origin is no different than a game being steamworks (the exception being Skyrim because of the workshop). One is just simply more popular than the other.

As I said, the package was garbage but the main point still stands: EA sucks.

I don't really care about SWTOR and its thousand lines of dialogue, I never played it and never will.

What I care about though is that 500-1000 people will lose their job because of bad management. I care about the fuck up of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Even if it doesn't affect me directly, I don't like online passes invading every game. I'm fed up with EA forcing people to use an inferior product in Origin and keeping games off Steam.

In short: If you're doing shit, I'm gonna give you shit.

[subversus]

There are lots of other avenues, and most of these publishers seem to be incapable of harnessing any of these new opportunities.

that is because you have to have creative people to do that. And creative people are motivated by having an initiative + money coming directly from what they do. And in large corporations like EA these people are bogged down in bureaucracy and ranks.

[Visualante2]

It's called having self control. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if all these HD productions were as much a result of the developers pushing and demanding more money to fulfill their artistic needs and visions. Customers didn't demand 512mb of ram from Microsoft in the 360 and got it; it was Epic who did that.

I see it more as if producers/managers are promising the publisher features that the team can't deliver on. There is no understanding from the coal face of how long it takes to implement back of the box features, and publishers don't care about their quality of life, they just throw people at the problem. I appreciate I'm making generalisations from outside observations but if everyone was more honest about what can be delivered in a reasonable time frame maybe we'd be better off.

One of the things that was refreshing about Sony when I received a talk from them was like "we might hire 4 or 5 people over the next year, we're all about steady growth". I know they're not immune to studio closures, but they don't go on big hiring and firing sprees so much as others.

[Marty Chinn]

I don't really agree -- this all assumes they continue their laser like focus on the PS3/360 to the detriment of everything else. The big publishers remain consistently absent on the handheld systems; they never embraced the Wii and allowed it to sink, despite obvious, strong interest from consumers; Facebook and iOS have EA, but Ubisoft, Take 2, and Activision have all largely avoided those platforms thus far. It would be understandable 10 years ago, when the traditional home console ecosystem represented something like 80% of the gaming market. But today? There are lots of other avenues, and most of these publishers seem to be incapable of harnessing any of these new opportunities.

The Wii's target audience was different than the PS3/360. For many genres, you weren't going to find the audience or the success on that platform. That's why there is a stark contrast between the type of games you see on each of the platforms. It goes both ways too. Stuff that did well on the Wii wouldn't mean it would do well on the PS3/360. THQ learned that the hard and stupid way that will probably put them out of business now.

A lot of the alternate means of revenue like Facebook and iOS are still unproven for the long term. Developers/publishers right now are still trying to find out what works and what doesn't. That's one of the reasons not everyone has jumped in. Some think it's a bubble that's going to burst. Even if they did, is this really where we want to see the market shift as core gamers?

It's called having self control. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if all these HD productions were as much a result of the developers pushing and demanding more money to fulfill their artistic needs and visions. Customers didn't demand 512mb of ram from Microsoft in the 360 and got it; it was Epic who did that.

That's actually not how it works. Budgets get out of control as projects get behind or other problems arise during development that then puts the project in jeopardy. More money is thrown at it in order to try to save the project rather than cut their losses. Of course it goes against normal business concepts of sunk costs, but these publishers are counting on that revenue to be generated by the title, so that's why they sink more money into it. Otherwise they'll miss out on the quarter financial statements. Everything comes down the the quarterly reports. I've experienced this many times first hand and in fact I have a job because of it.

I'm not saying developers/publishers don't have their own issues about planning, and realistic expectations of timeline and so forth, but a part of the whole HD production is definitely a result of the expectations and demand for it. Graphics are often the first impression that people have on a game before even the gameplay and that visual look can damn a game. Just hang out with an average gamer in college, and you'll hear these things. Gameplay has always been paramount in my eyes, but I have seen first hand how important graphics can be.

[bigtroyjon]

As I said, the package was garbage but the main point still stands: EA sucks. I don't really care about SWTOR and its thousand lines of dialogue, I never played it and never will. What I care about though is that 500-1000 people will lose their job because of bad management. I care about the fuck up of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Even if it doesn't affect me directly, I don't like online passes invading every game. I'm fed up with EA forcing people to use an inferior product in Origin and keeping games off Steam. In short: If you're doing shit, I'm gonna give you shit.

Without the bad management, those 500-1000 people don't have a job in the first place.

[Glass Rebel]

Without the bad management, those 500-1000 people don't have a job in the first place.

Oh sorry then, that makes it obviously much much better.

[Lancehead]

The Wii's target audience was different than the PS3/360. For many genres, you weren't going to find the audience or the success on that platform. That's why there is a stark contrast between the type of games you see on each of the platforms. It goes both ways too. Stuff that did well on the Wii wouldn't mean it would do well on the PS3/360. THQ learned that the hard and stupid way that will probably put them out of business now. A lot of the alternate means of revenue like Facebook and iOS are still unproven for the long term. Developers/publishers right now are still trying to find out what works and what doesn't. That's one of the reasons not everyone has jumped in. Some think it's a bubble that's going to burst. Even if they did, is this really where we want to see the market shift as core gamers?

I don't think Opiate was asking to release PS360 games on Wii or vice versa. But that publishers branch out and exploit different opportunities present in different markets by embracing different business models.

[bigtroyjon]

Oh sorry then, that makes it obviously much much better.

EA has lost a ton of money inefficiently employing way too many people for the projects they had. Without that shitty management they would have been leaner and there would have been less jobs in the industry. The money would have gone into EA's bank accounts instead of employee paychecks.

Shitty management always leads to more employment, not less.

[dragonelite]

Oh sorry then, that makes it obviously much much better.

I do think he is right without bad management studio wouldn't get so fat to the point they have to cut away all the fat. Maybe EA is planning to slow down in anticipation of Next gen consoles.

[michaelius]

Dear EA please go and die...

... also way to go to Richitello... you need to force your studios to release more of those legendary IPs as dumbed down shooters...

and don't forget to push Orgin on all your customers that will surely help sales when people hate it

oh and keep making all that great day one DLC which was obviously cut from your games this will bring so many new customers and keep old ones so happy

[AngryPyros]

While trying to find just how accurate the site that started these claims is, I found this:

http://www.develop-online.net/news/4...500-1000-staff

Electronic Arts has denied rumours that the company is set to axe as many as 1000 jobs. “There are no lay-offs as such, we always have projects growing and morphing,” a statement issued to Develop read

That seems...pretty final.

[Opiate]

I don't think Opiate was asking to release PS360 games on Wii or vice versa. But that publishers branch out and exploit opportunities presented in different markets.

That is correct. The Wii was only one of my examples, and is the least significant I feel; it is not a "new opportunity" at this point. Whatever fruit might have been plucked from that tree remained unpicked for so long that it has long since withered.

These untapped opportunities go in all directions; from the extremely casual and (at least on GAF) loathed Facebook style social gaming, all the way to the other end of the spectrum to complex strategy games which have largely gone overlooked by the big publishers because they can't figure out how to transition them to consoles.

The reason why Zynga, Gameloft, (did you know Gameloft has more employees now than Take 2 does?) Valve, and Rovio have managed to grow so rapidly is that the big players -- who can normally crush the little guys with their sheer financial muscle -- have effectively left a power vacuum on iOS/PC/Facebook, and this has allowed new players to rush in and fill the void. If EA/Activision/Take 2 had all been there early and competing seriously in those markets, I have absolutely no doubt that Zynga, Valve and Gameloft either would not exist today or would be much smaller companies.

[Glass Rebel]

EA has lost a ton of money inefficiently employing way too many people for the projects they had. Without that shitty management they would have been leaner and there would have been less jobs in the industry. The money would have gone into EA's bank accounts instead of employee paychecks. Shitty management always leads to more employment, not less.

I do think he is right without bad management studio wouldn't get so fat to the point they have to cut away all the fat. Maybe EA is planning to slow down in anticipation of Next gen consoles.

You guys make it sound like good management wouldn't have led to more jobs and that it's not a big deal that this many people lost their job.

[dragonelite]

You guys make it sound like good management wouldn't have led to more jobs and that it's not a big deal that this many people lost their job.

Good management make good use of financial resources and won't let a studio get to fat.
For me personally i rather have a job with bad management and get cut away.
And if i did my job right i at least have a extra company i can reference too.

Instead of not having a job and missing that extra reference. And so far as i have heard if you want to work in the gaming industry make sure you are flexible if you aren't a lead of head at the studio especially if your in art assets. Can't confirm this but that is what i have heard.

[-PXG-]

Mirror's Edge 2 is never, ever going to get made.

Noooooo

Don't say that :(

[Bumhead]

That a game can sell 13 million units and still contribute to a "poor" year is a damning statement on the current state of the industry.

If you're making a game that sells 13 million units and you still have to make lay-offs, you're not doing it right. You're failing and you should stop.

[Glass Rebel]

Good management make good use of financial resources and won't let a studio get to fat. For me personally i rather have a job with bad management and get cut away. And if i did my job right i at least have a extra company i can reference too. Instead of not having a job and missing that extra reference. And so far as i have heard if you want to work in the gaming industry make sure you are flexible if you aren't a lead of head at the studio especially if your in art assets. Can't confirm this but that is what i have heard.

I'm gonna take your word for this but I still think it's pretty alarming if this is how the industry "works".

[Grymm]

That a game can sell 13 million units and still contribute to a "poor" year is a damning statement on the current state of the industry. If you're making a game that sells 13 million units and you still have to make lay-offs, you're not doing it right. You're failing and you should stop.

The problem is there's one game selling 13 million, but meanwhile they're spending $200+ million on a shitty TOR, god knows how many millions worth of development and marketing for Dragon Age 2, who knows how many millions for marketing Need For Speed The Run, etc. and getting voted as the worst company in America in the meantime.

It's bad decisions coming from the top. TOR would be doing much better if it was free to play because when people see the low quality of the game and realize they're paying a monthly fee on top of the $60 price tag it's obviously a turn off. Need For Speed The Run had no reason to exist as a full fledged console release and have the advertising it did. It was a shitty game that would have done better as a budget title or scaled down to be a mobile game. Dragon Age 2 simply should not have been released in the state that it was and someone should have known you don't spend that much money marketing a game that's that bad.

These kinds of bad management decisions that come from not reasonably looking at what the product actually is and living outside of that products means, whether above or below, have led to the vast majority of the problems we've seen from devs who are in financial trouble.

Meanwhile you have smart developers making games they know can't lose. People like to say it's a shift to Facebook/IOS etc. but it's really not that. What it is is making a product that fits your companies budget and putting it in the best position to succeed or at least break even while growing a fanbase using the best avenue available to you. This doesn't apply to just IOS/Facebook but also mobile, XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc. It's a shift towards better management.

Something like Trine = smart move.
Something like Binary Domain = not so smart.

[dragonelite]

I'm gonna take your word for this but I still think it's pretty alarming if this is how the industry "works".

Just look a lot of job ads for the industry they always are looking for people who worked on or shipped 2~4 AAA titles. So maybe that one job you had at EA you can now put as a reference will increase your title count and your chance on getting a better/next job.

That is my view so far im still a student so no real world experience.

[Proxy]

The problem is there's one game selling 13 million, but meanwhile they're spending $200+ million on a shitty TOR, god knows how many millions worth of development and marketing for Dragon Age 2, who knows how many millions for marketing Need For Speed The Run, etc. and getting voted as the worst company in America in the meantime. It's bad decisions coming from the top. TOR would be doing much better if it was free to play because when people see the low quality of the game and realize they're paying a monthly fee on top of the $60 price tag it's obviously a turn off. Need For Speed The Run had no reason to exist as a full fledged console release and have the advertising it did. It was a shitty game that would have done better as a budget title or scaled down to be a mobile game. Dragon Age 2 simply should not have been released in the state that it was and someone should have known you don't spend that much money marketing a game that's that bad. These kinds of bad management decisions that come from not reasonably looking at what the product actually is and living outside of that products means, whether above or below, have led to the vast majority of the problems we've seen from devs who are in financial trouble.

Can you explain exactly how TOR is a low quality game?

[Grymm]

Can you explain how exactly is TOR a low quality game?

I could go into detail why the TORtanic is the TORtanic but I would suggest you go and TORture yourself to find out if all the available information isn't enough to help you get an idea.

[AppleMIX]

I could go into detail why the TORtanic is the TORtanic but I'm mean so I would suggest you go and TORture yourself to find out.

Still wondering how a game with 1.7 million subs is somehow a failure.

[Grymm]

Still wondering how a game with 1.7 million subs is somehow a failure.

Because there's nowhere close to 1.7 million subs for one.

Which reminds me, there ahsould be an EA earnings meeting coming up either this week or next. I wonder how they're going to try and spin TOR this time?

[AppleMIX]

Because there's nowhere close to 1.7 million subs for one.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/08/star...d-subscribers/

But I'm sure your non existence source is much better.

[Glass Rebel]

Because there's nowhere close to 1.7 million subs for one. Which reminds me, there ahsould be an EA earnings meeting coming up either this week or next. I wonder how they're going to try and spin TOR this time?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...tabilize-at-1/

Well, I hope EA isn't lying.

Edit: beatn

[Grymm]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/08/star...d-subscribers/ But I'm sure your non existence source is much better.

Playing the game itself and keeping up with all the people who track the stats of each servers population is probably a pretty good source. Also reading between the lines of EAs bullshit spin helps too.

[Margalis]

Did you even read your own link?

Those "1.7 million paying subs" include people who got a free month with the game. They are only "paying" in that they paid for the box. And a lot of people who buy an MMO buy a 3 or 6th month sub along with it. Sub numbers tend to trail well behind actual player counts for a while.

Meanwhile you have smart developers making games they know can't lose. People like to say it's a shift to Facebook/IOS etc. but it's really not that. What it is is making a product that fits your companies budget and putting it in the best position to succeed or at least break even while growing a fanbase using the best avenue available to you. This doesn't apply to just IOS/Facebook but also mobile, XBLA, PSN, Steam, etc. It's a shift towards better management.

Most IOS/Facebook/XBLA devs are probably losing money. There's no such thing as a game that can't lose. Yes there are success stories but for every one of those there are 100 failures.

[Glass Rebel]

Did you even read your own link? Those "1.7 million paying subs" include people who got a free month with the game. They are only "paying" in that they paid for the box.

At least my link says this:

It's also worth noting that, according to EA's John Riccitello, the "vast majority" of these active subscribers have already used their 30-day trials, which means most of those 1.7 million subscribers are shelling out $15 per month to play the game.