For the uninitiated, there were some rumors about 2 years ago that Sony was developing a 1st party engine/development framework for their 1st/2nd party development studios to use on their PS3 games. Though this isn't a confirmation of an actual "engine" in development, this IS a confirmation that there is an ICE TEAM headed by the Lead Programmer of Naughty Dog, David Simpson and guided with the help of Mark Cerny of CERNY GAMES
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Looks like those ICE engine rumors were true (well sorta...)
- Thread starter gbovo
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Ynos Yrros
Banned
Nice work.
Naughty Dog is at the top of the AWESOME TECHNOLOGY mountain. They will probably come up with something stunning (they already wowed alot of people with E3 presentation).
As for PS3 engines and tools - every studio is working on them, they are sharing technology.
Naughty Dog is at the top of the AWESOME TECHNOLOGY mountain. They will probably come up with something stunning (they already wowed alot of people with E3 presentation).
As for PS3 engines and tools - every studio is working on them, they are sharing technology.
Systems_id
Banned
I thought David Jaffe himself confirmed that there was an Ice Engine awhile back?
Seriously, seriously.... I'm getting pretty sick and f*cking tired about hearing how Sony's 1st and 2nd party stuff is just going to blow everything else out of the water. About how they have an incredible set up for software development and support.
But you know what. We need to see it. We really do. The thing with information vaccums is that at first, there's an incredible amount of enthusiasm and positive energy as everyone wants to believe. But very quickly all that positivity turns sour.
Sony. You have the development infrastructure, you have the talent and resources. And I'm told (though even I'm starting to doubt it now) the games that no one else can touch.
If, at these upcoming Gamers Day, we just get more of Lair and perhaps another ambigious CGI video for another game that's ages away then frankly all this work doesn't mean a great deal.
I don't want to start dooming Sony as it's till far too early to do that. But it is worrying that all this chest beating still isn't resulting in concrete games that we can see and look forward too. There's too much about Sony's output that we know nothing about. And though I'm not pushing the panic button yet. I'm made sure I know where it is.... just in case.
BTW.... have Insomniac said anything about their engine, the one used for Resistance? Does it have a name, and if so, presumably they are using it for the new Ratchett and Clank? Just curious.
But you know what. We need to see it. We really do. The thing with information vaccums is that at first, there's an incredible amount of enthusiasm and positive energy as everyone wants to believe. But very quickly all that positivity turns sour.
Sony. You have the development infrastructure, you have the talent and resources. And I'm told (though even I'm starting to doubt it now) the games that no one else can touch.
If, at these upcoming Gamers Day, we just get more of Lair and perhaps another ambigious CGI video for another game that's ages away then frankly all this work doesn't mean a great deal.
I don't want to start dooming Sony as it's till far too early to do that. But it is worrying that all this chest beating still isn't resulting in concrete games that we can see and look forward too. There's too much about Sony's output that we know nothing about. And though I'm not pushing the panic button yet. I'm made sure I know where it is.... just in case.
BTW.... have Insomniac said anything about their engine, the one used for Resistance? Does it have a name, and if so, presumably they are using it for the new Ratchett and Clank? Just curious.
Dude, just give them a bit of time. Sony isn't hyping anything up themselves. they want the games to do the talking (instead of some PR fact sheet). This generation, Sony's 1st/2nd party devs aren't just making games for PS3, but they are also making libraries for the SDK. That's why Sony is investing so much in the 1st party development. Even if one of their titles doesn't sell enough to break even, the libraries and tools developed from that game can/will be shared and used by other 1st AND 3rd party developers.Busty said:
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Busty, they prove their technical prowess in MotorStorm, F1, Warhawk and Resistance if that counts. We also seen Naughty Dog's game demo, and Heavenly Sword. They can't just start hyping everything until the system launches globally, they need to go step after step.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Ynos Yrros said:
Yep. Not to mention that Naughty Dog and Insomniac have an impressive track record.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
My german is weak, but doesn't it mean Ice Heart?AAK said:
(EisenHertz?)
Ynos Yrros said:
True. I wasn't trying to damn Sony. Was just venting some frustration. But I agree with you. Motorstorm, F1 and Resistance all look amazing.
I'm in no way doubting Sony's technical prowess, it's just when they have so much ambition in certain areas (their downloadable games have blown me away) they sometimes seem to be asleep at the wheel other times.
LAIR for example. I've always thought that was not only a stunning game but a real technical acheivement. But it wasn't until we all saw the Game Informer shots that people's jaws really dropped (I still can't get over how amazing that sea monster-esque giant looked!
But that's my point. There appears to be too much confusion about what direction they want to go in. BlimBlim recently had LAIR shots released to him by SCEE and some of them where old from the TGS build and out of the four or five shots, really only one could be considered new.
Why aren't they releasing more of what was seen in the GI article? I understand the nature of magazine exlcusives, but there is more impressive stuff to be seen of this game. It's just Sony aren't showing it.
But like I said. I'm not dooming them, I was just venting.
Imperial Hot
Banned
It would be a good move for Sony to create a in-house engine for the first-party. That way they can let the developers do what they do best and make good games, and not have to work on the game engines. If this is true, Sony is going to have an easy time just flooding the market with good 1st party games.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Yup I agree with you Busty. I'm also disapointed with their marketing performance. I'm trying to understand their reasoning, but it does irritate me. There's absolutely NO media coming out of SCE. No new Lair shots, no Heavenly Sword shots (even though they were sent from Ninja Theory), no Warhawk info, no nothing. It's really hard to anticipate PS3 (I'm in Europe), wothout any new media. It seems that SONY wants to lose fans.
.
Doesn't Eis mean ice? Anyway, I was just having fun
.Ynos Yrros said:
Exactly. The whole thing is made even worse when you consider we're seeing more from Square Enix regarding FF XIII and that isn't due in Japan until 2008!
Sony are running TV adverts in Japan right now apparently that feature what are said (IIRC) to be real time footage of FF XIII!!!
Sony have a huge wave of 1st and 2nd party stuff coming. It's not a case of 'if' but rather 'when'. And like you said Ynos Yrros, it's there but they aren't showing it. And that's a little worrying. Either it's for one big showing.... or... I don't know.
snack said:
Agreed. But the idea really becomes exciting when you think about the possibilities of some developer like Factor 5 exchanging tech, tools and know how with someone like Ninja Theory!
This shared environment for a common goal is quite exciting. It could lead to some truly amazing things.
Busty said:
I believe the Ninja Theory people stated before a long time ago that they were sharing info with other teams like ND and Insomniac... They had access to a lot of stuff, they just don't have the budget itself from Sony, that's all... Insomniac isn't first party either, and they mentioned before about sharing info and such... It's there for first and the infamous second party devs apparently...
It is exciting though, in a sense you can know that the games framework is solid then, and just worry about other things like art and such...
Ynos Yrros
Banned
I don't think it's a particular engine, I think they are working on tools.klee123 said:
Ninja Theory probably contributed alot to PS3's SDK, since they created the NAO32 HDR format.
Point is, that it's not about creating one engine (that would make all the games similiar), it's about optimizing effects to work best on PS3's architecture. So we get HDR optimization, normal mapping optimization, probably volumetric content optimization - that's what ICE is working on, pushing PS3 to it's limits, developing tools that speed up production process.
Anything less than crysis-level awesomeness would be disappointing. I expect better, actually. You hear that, ****ers. There's a jungle game, and there's a jungle-friendly south american location in mgs4. Both of them, and I mean both, better and will be superior to cyriss in every possible way.
Haunted
Member
no problemYnos Yrros said:Yup I agree with you Busty. I'm also disapointed with their marketing performance. I'm trying to understand their reasoning, but it does irritate me. There's absolutely NO media coming out of SCE. No new Lair shots, no Heavenly Sword shots (even though they were sent from Ninja Theory), no Warhawk info, no nothing. It's really hard to anticipate PS3 (I'm in Europe), wothout any new media. It seems that SONY wants to lose fans.
Doesn't Eis mean ice? Anyway, I was just having fun
'Eis' is ice, but 'Eisen' is iron.Chrono said:Anything less than crysis-level awesomeness would be disappointing. I expect better, actually. You hear that, ****ers. There's a jungle game, and there's a jungle-friendly south american location in mgs4. Both of them, and I mean both, better and will be superior to cyriss in every possible way.
*rubs forehead*
I agree that Crysis isn't the be all and end all of 'next gen' gaming. But I'm really not sure what to think about this new gen.
I like what Sony have managed to achieve with their first wave of PS3 games. But at the same time, I kind of see where you're coming from. That this gen has barely started and we're still only really at the tip of the iceberg in terms of tapping the raw power that these consoles have to offer.
I still have high hopes for LAIR. I really think that game could turn alot of people's heads. I really do think that when we see a finished version of LAIR, it'll be largely comparable to the E3 trailers that Sony was showing if it isn't there already.
There, I said it.
Mana Knight
Banned
The problem is, Sony faced a lot of criticism for their games at E3 06 not looking as good as the trailers at E3 05 (which weren't exactly in-game at the moment). Sony will eventually achieve similar graphics, but it won't be until towards the end of the development cycle. If Sony were to reveal everything how it is right now, I can guarantee most would be disappointed in the graphics (since the final touches haven't been put on). Also, if anyone may remember in the PS2 case, Sony did not reveal the majority of their first party games until 6 months before release (they did it with all Jak games, Ratchet games, etc.), because games could be delayed for a while (if a development problem occurs), so it's best to reveal games when you know they'll be ready.Busty said:
Systems_id
Banned
I really, really hope that Sony gets close to those Killzone renders. I just want to know if that level of animation is possible in a game.
AAK said:
That's a good point. Level 5 have a motion capture studio IIRC. They might even have one, if not the largest in the Japanese development community. So all the animation was directly captured from an actors/performers movements.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see alot more of this sort of thing from Sony. After all, even Ninja Theory use one, though probably less for actual game animation and more for cut scenes.... though I could be wrong. So I don't see why Guerilla wouldn't have one.
I have a feeling that we get a surprise from Level 5 regarding the PS3 this year. Just a hunch/theory I have though.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Resistance's credits:
Mark Cerny is a certified double-genius, btw.
Mark Cerny is a certified double-genius, btw
.Ynos Yrros
Banned
SONY is investing massive ammounts of money into Guerilla, I have no doubt that it will be the best looking console FPS when it comes out.
Diablohead
Member
I like the fact that an engine can be given out as a nice starting base for games, not every company out there can afford 2 years of engine research and tests as well as making their game as good as budget and time allows.
Azrael said:
Yes, it's thought to be around 40 from outside, independent developers and some from Sony first and second party devs. Factor 5 have two and Insomniac has one. There was even talk that Naughty Dog was doing something.
But to be honest. A hundred games, isn't that much. Considering that Sony has development 'hubs'' in Japan, the US and Europe and are supporting three formats now. Those one hundred games will probably be spread out over the next two/two and a half years or so.
I really don't think that anywhere from 8-12 'AAA' first party games a year for the PS3 would be totally out of the realm of possibility for Sony.
EDIT -
Diablohead said:
Agreed. I like the fact that Sony even cover multiplatform development with the NEON engine.
element
Member
I was talking about the ICE ages ago.
if anything it is more of a framework then an engine. like a developer using the framework can see something another team is doing and say 'ohh i like that' and bring it into their game rapidly.
One would assume that ICE would only be accessible by wholly owned studios of SCE, and not independent studios. But I could be wrong.
if anything it is more of a framework then an engine. like a developer using the framework can see something another team is doing and say 'ohh i like that' and bring it into their game rapidly.
One would assume that ICE would only be accessible by wholly owned studios of SCE, and not independent studios. But I could be wrong.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
element said:
How would you compare it to Capcom's MT and Unreal Engine 3 (as far as large frameworks are concerned and not game engines)?
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