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Thinking the NX needs to be like the PS4 or X1 to be successful is foolish

Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
In a lot of NX pre-announcement discussion, one thing people always do is compare it to the ps4 and X1. "The Tegra X might be powerful enough to have ps4 ports or X1 ports." People are dead set on making this system something that is played in a way directly identical to the other consoles. People think NX's third party support - and larger success - fully hinges itself on its power and whether or not it gets AAA third party exclusives. I'm seeing this on Youtube, I'm seeing this on enthusiast new sites, I'm seeing it on gaf.

The problem with this it's another way for console players to ignore handhelds.

The reality is that, if what Eurogamer says is true and the system is a hybrid, this system will be the successor to the 3ds. This is something console players do not understand and keep forgetting.

Even though the 3DS isn't nearly as popular as the original DS, it's still quite popular in Japan and worldwide. The system, as of now, has sold over 60 million. Games like Monster Hunter sell gangbusters in Japan and do extremely well in abroad. Dragon Quest XI has a version coming out for the 3ds. Square has released numerous handheld successful titles for the 3ds, games like Bravely Default have done very well. This is without going into Nintendo's own game library with games like Pokemon, which these days is generally handheld exclusive.

The problem with the thinking that NX's success hinges on whether or not it has AAA third party exclusives is lacking the full picture. Do you really think Capcom is going to stop making Monster Hunter games for handheld Nintendo hardware? Because that's what the NX is. Or do games like Monster Hunter not count because they're Japanese and not AAA despite being large and popular franchises? Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate sold over 1 million copies in North America and Europe. It has life time sales of over 4 million units as of 2015. If Nintendo's hardware and software is merged, where do you think franchises like Pokemon are going? NX. Where do you think the sequel to Animal Crossing: New Leaf, a game that sold over 7 million copies, will be? NX. Or maybe even niche titles like Shin Megami Tensei? NX seems like a safe bet. Many of those games mentioned sell hardware.

If you're going to argue NX's success - or failure - is entirely dependent on whether or not it gets console games that are available on PS4 and X1, you really, really need to take a step back and rethink what you're saying. Remember: this is Nintendo's successor to the 3ds. If what Eurogamer says is true, it is a handheld for all intents and purposes, with the capability of becoming a home console.

I have no idea why game players and the press completely ignore handheld games, even when Nintendo's new system is pretty much a handheld with the capability of possibly running ports from the other consoles and pc titles. Rumors even suggest it has smart phone app integration of some kind. Please stop comparing the NX to the home consoles. Systems like the 3ds are more than successful and certainly don't need AAA third party games like GTA or Call of Duty to become successful. Different games for different audiences.Thinking NX has to be exactly like the PS4 to be a good system - or more relevant to Nintnedo's interests, to sell - is utter stupidity.

Something to consider for future NX discussions.
 
R

Roshin

Member
CrystalBall.jpg
 
K

Kathian

Banned
The 3DS just sold more than any other console in NA. I think a more powerful handheld that can cast to your TV is fine.

One think all the people getting too excited about PS4 levels is the thing just won't have the memory.
 
C

Corleth the Fey

Member
It could do with more than three Nintendo games on it in the first six months.

Still I think I'm going to like it - Monster Hunter on the TV again at last.
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
The reality is that, if what Eurogamer says is true and the system is a hybrid, this system will be the successor to the 3ds. This is something console players do not understand and keep forgetting.
Click to expand...

This is also the wrong way of looking at NX.

If what Eurogamer reports is true, and NX is a hybrid device that can be configured multiple ways, NX will be the successor to the concept of dedicated gaming devices as we currently know them today.

Gamers won't need a bunch of separate devices, one for TV games, one for portable play, and one for touch (smartphone- or tablet-style) mobile gaming. And as such there won't be dramatically different libraries for different form factors based on different specs - just one library that's constantly growing, even as the tech gets pushed further. There'll be one package that can be configured multiple ways to suit the needs of a wide variety of consumers.

Want to play on the go? Carry it with you.
Want to play on the TV? Drop it on a dock and pick up a controller/s.
Want to just use it like a tablet? You might even be able to just take the screen portion with you and leave the rest.

It's kind of like how Apple originally billed the iPhone:

It's a mobile phone.
It's an iPod.
It's an internet communicator.

NX is the mobile philosophy applied to dedicated gaming devices. Except now it's 2016 and people expect their content to be available on all their screens, so it lets you push the content to other places besides just the device in your hands, too.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
To this I would say "of course". Look at Game Boy, Wii and DS. All technologically underpowered sales juggernauts.

Of course core gamers want power but they are a niche slice of the greater market and can't see outside of their own needs.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
BocoDragon said:
To this I would say "of course". Look at Game Boy, Wii and DS. All technologically underpowered sales juggernauts.

Of course core gamers want power but they are a niche slice of the greater market and can't see outside of their own needs.
Click to expand...

They're fools. A lot of this is obvious, but they think power always means success or that console games are the only valid type of game.
 
bumpkin

bumpkin

Member
I have been a staunch Nintendo supporter since their NES days, but even I acknowledge one sad truth. If the NX isn't capable of handling direct ports of XB1 and PS4 third party games, it's going to be the Wii and Wii U all over again; good systems if you enjoy only-on-Nintendo games, but awful as a primary console.

That said, I'm in on day one because Nintendo makes world class video games. That's the only reason, unless the hybrid rumors prove true. Nintendo also makes rock solid portables of which I've bought almost all of them.
 
Salty Hippo

Salty Hippo

Member
If the NX is just a successor to the 3DS that can output to a TV then Nintendo has officially abandoned the home console market as far as I'm concerned. And that's disappointing as fuck because their games will likely be stuck on even more outdated hardware than I had previously imagined.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Salty Hippo said:
If the NX is just a successor to the 3DS that can output to a TV then Nintendo has officially abandoned the home console market as far as I'm concerned. And that's disappointing as fuck because their games will likely be stuck on even more outdated hardware than I had previously imagined.
Click to expand...

You really shouldn't think like this.

Think of it as a merging of two ecosystems. It's both.
 
B

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I don't think I've ever seen so much speculation for something and still don't know what the hell it is and how it'll function.
 
J

joedick

Member
Thinking the road to success is having it be on par or better than PS4 is foolish. By that logic the Xbox One would be doing a lot better than it is.
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
I said this in a previous thread, but NX being a hybrid is at this point, the best possible thing to do.

Releasing a super-powered console is risky when you have to differentiate yourself from two already-established super-powered consoles switching to an iterative model.

If you're a gymnast, you take a massive leap, and botch the landing, do you try immediately to do another leap in that ilk, or do you try to regain your footing first and re-examine what you're good at? Nintendo lost their balance badly with the Wii U, but the 3DS was still pretty successful.

By focusing on what they excel at (building off of the 3DS's success and supplementing that with positives gained from the Wii U era), Nintendo can regain their footing in the market so hopefully in the future, they can be in a better bargaining position with consumers and their fellow producers. The last thing they need is a massive risk that screws them even harder. Doubling down on their positive qualities is pretty much the best way to go for them at this point in time, and there's nothing inherently wrong in that.
 
M

MacTag

Banned
Asd202 said:
Merging two ecosystems but it's held back by handheld hardware. With Neo and Scorpio, NX spec looks like a chump.
Click to expand...
It's not too bad since Neo/Scorpio will be held back by PS4/One spec for several more years. And even now you still have PS4/One spec held back by PS3/360 yet in some cases (sports games, Japanese games, etc).
 
Z

ZeroCDR

Member
Asd202 said:
Exacly what you said in the OP. No means to run AAA 3rd party games and no Nintendo games on that scale or budget. Some people wanted that but they won't get it with NX.
Click to expand...

Nintendo had a really hard time adjusting to HD development this gen, but what they gave us was looked and played great despite being on last-gen power. Same with their output on Wii. Nintendo doesn't need raw power for what they do, and that's fine.
 
1

18-Volt

Member
It does not need to be as powerful as PS4 or X1 to survive. But it DOES need to have the same third party support as PS4 and X1. Wii U has been a huge failure and most important reason for this was absence of third party. It was also a proof that just "family friendly" Nintendo software weren't enough to keep it alive. Nintendo right now have to do whatever third parties require them to. Sufficient hardware? Better online capabilities? Larger userbase? Anything.
 
G

Genio88

Member
I think too that right now it's too late for Nintendo to fight directly against Xbox and Playstation, also PC should be taken in consideration here as the third device in this market. So to me they're doing the right choice with NX, going with a "cheap" handheld which can also become a home console if needed. It won't be easy to success in that market either due to Smartphones and Tablets diffusion nowadays, though i still think it's the right path to follow for them and they can actually have good results. Of course that's just my thought
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
joedick said:
Thinking the road to success is having it be on par or better than PS4 is foolish. By that logic the Xbox One would be doing a lot better than it is.
Click to expand...
If Nintendo's home console had sales and support like the Xbox One Nintendo would be in a much better position.

Instead we have the Wii U

Not that I disagree with Nintendo's best shot being something unique, but an Xbox One with additional Nintendo games on it would do pretty fucking well.
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
18-Volt said:
It does not need to be as powerful as PS4 or X1 to survive. But it DOES need to have the same third party support as PS4 and X1. Wii U has been a huge failure and most important reason for this was absence of third party. It was also a proof that just "family friendly" Nintendo software weren't enough to keep it alive. Nintendo right now have to do whatever third parties require them to. Sufficient hardware? Better online capabilities? Larger userbase? Anything.
Click to expand...

The 3DS didn't have the same third party support and still managed to be successful, which is what the OP is trying to remind people of.

The idea behind the OP is that examining NX as the successor to the Wii U is missing that it is just as much an absorption of the 3DS, which was a success in its own right. Too often in these discussions, people always seem to leave the 3DS out of the equation when really, it's a crucial aspect if NX is indeed a handheld-console hybrid.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
Outside of the horrible price, marketing, and specs of the system, the lack of 3rd party support was surely one of the reasons behind the failure of the Wii-U.

It's sill to think any system wouldn't be better off without 3rd party support.
 
F

firelogic

Member
N64 wasn't like PS1. Was it successful?

Gamecube wasn't like PS2/XBOX. Was it successful?

WiiU wasn't like PS3/360. Was it successful? (The WiiU came out 7 years(?) after the 360. Too little too late)

Wii is the only success story and that's an outlier. A crazy outlier that's not likely to happen again.

If you take out the Wii, Nintendo has been on a steady decline since the SNES for home consoles.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
KageMaru said:
Outside of the horrible price, marketing, and specs of the system, the lack of 3rd party support was surely one of the reasons behind the failure of the Wii-U.

It's sill to think any system wouldn't be better off without 3rd party support.
Click to expand...

I...I didn't say the NX should or will have no third party support. Quite the opposite.

NinjaCoachZ said:
The 3DS didn't have the same third party support and still managed to be successful, which is what the OP is trying to remind people of.

The idea behind the OP is that examining NX as the successor to the Wii U is missing that it is just as much an absorption of the 3DS, which was a success in its own right. Too often in these discussions, people always seem to leave the 3DS out of the equation when really, it's a crucial aspect if NX is indeed a handheld-console hybrid.
Click to expand...

Thank you for understanding my argument.
 
M

MoonFrog

Member
I think it does have its best chance if it can get PS4/PS3/Vita games and moreover does so. Be the handheld that can and does finally play 99% of all games Japan cares about and you get all that Japanese support to make your catalog more appealing. Win Japan, and boost your profile in the west for a moderate success that can be built on with NX 2.

Nintendo has a good opportunity so long as PS4 cannot float Japanese developers alone. It probably never will be able to, so the questions are: can Nintendo make use of this opportunity, will they seek to, will Japanese third parties become multiplatform with NX, and can another dedicated handheld sell in Japan?

NX is set to make the western home console struggle the same as the Japanese handheld struggle and Nintendo has been spending its energy on Japan first since the GCN. Japan is their most likely and most viable target for support, and, yes, that means Nintendo should seek PlayStation multiplats.

...

The biggest western games will come if/when there is an audience and they have a history of down porting, so yeah I agree Nintendo doesn't need PS4 parity, but they do need cross-gen parity which shouldn't be hard to have. Heck, Wii U has it. What will be hard is making the system approachable and getting third parties to share their vision in a Japan going mobile and a West going Sony.

The only other angle is to go for the kid's tablet demographic, but I really don't see how you do that except with dedicated software you make people want. That and compatibility with popular mobile games.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
Cindi Mayweather said:
I...I didn't say the NX should or will have no third party support. Quite the opposite.
Click to expand...
Third party support at this point basically means getting the same multiplatform games as PS4 and Xbox One. Especially western support, which is important. Third party exclusives have become very rare. The 3DS still has some, but it's not like anything but MH really sells
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
firelogic said:
N64 wasn't like PS1. Was it successful?

Gamecube wasn't like PS2/XBOX. Was it successful?

WiiU wasn't like PS3/360. Was it successful?

Wii is the only success story and that's an outlier. A crazy outlier that's not likely to happen again.

If you take out the Wii, Nintendo has been on a steady decline since the SNES for home consoles.
Click to expand...

NX isn't purely a home console. If you read the OP you'd know that its main point is that Nintendo's handhelds have been consistently successful and had their own perks relative to their consoles. Based on what we know, NX will be absorbing them along with their console business. Leaving handhelds out of the discussion is disingenuous.

Cindi Mayweather said:
Thank you for understanding my argument.
Click to expand...

NP!
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
NinjaCoachZ said:
NX isn't purely a home console. If you read the OP you'd know that its main point is that Nintendo's handhelds have been consistently successful, and based on what we know, NX will be absorbing them along with their console business. Leaving handhelds out of the discussion is disingenuous.
Click to expand...

Nintendo handhelds are trending downward in sales, just like their consoles. The 3DS launched in what? 2010? 2011? What's a dedicated handheld release going to look like in 2016/2017 where mobile has grown far larger?

Both of Nintendo's hardware formats are shrinking. Now they're being combined, and could likely shrink further. It's not going to get the third party support, which is largely western dominated anymore. I just don't share the optimism.
 
M

Mandelbo

Member
GhostTrick said:
No, he's right. It's foolish to imagine that they need to basically make a PS4. People who wants to play the 3rd party western games didn't wait for Nintendo to make a console. They have a PS4 or an XB1 for this.
Click to expand...

^
I genuinely don't get the sentiment that the NX is doomed if it's not another big powerful black box for exactly that reason. The PS4 and XB1 are already more or less the same thing, what's the point of a third one? To me, power makes literally no difference anyway, and Nintendo's proven that they can make games that look great on hardware that's nowhere near as good as the competition.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
The 3ds sold 60 million. Why do people only focus on the Wii U's failure when this system is said to be a hybrid, and in effect, is Nintendo's next handheld system? 60 million is nothing to scoff at. But for some reason, the 3ds doesn't count when the Wii U does. Why? Haha, kidding, that's a rhetorical question! I know why.

Anth0ny said:
you're right


there's nothing the nx can do to be successful
Click to expand...

Willing to bet?
 
B

benjammin

Member
The Wii proved that consoles don't have to be like the competition to be successful. The Wii U proved that Nintendo had no idea what made the Wii successful. Still cautiously optimistic for the NX.
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
ShinUltramanJ said:
Nintendo handhelds are trending downward in sales, just like their consoles. The 3DS launched in what? 2010? 2011? What's a dedicated handheld release going to look like in 2016/2017 where mobile has grown far larger?

Both of Nintendo's hardware formats are shrinking. Now they're being combined, and could likely shrink further. It's not going to get the third party support, which is largely western dominated anymore. I just don't share the optimism.
Click to expand...

While it's true the 3DS is nowhere near its predecessors, 60 million+ for a dedicated handheld is nothing to sneeze at either.

Thankfully NX won't be purely a "dedicated handheld" and I don't see why combining them would somehow make them less appealing. If anything it'd be the opposite. You see people lamenting how they have to buy two pieces of expensive Nintendo hardware, how software doesn't carry over, they switch places taking droughts... Having only one piece of hardware that (ideally) takes the best of both worlds is really the most logical thing for them to do at this point in time. It's pretty much the culmination of how over the past few years, the quality and scope of games across Wii/Wii U and 3DS have become more and more homogenous, even redundant at times.

Making a super-powered beast of a machine is risky at best. There's no real clear, immediate alternative other than that, and definitely no miracle fix for their myriad of problems. At this point in time it's hard to really say something like that would be the smartest move to make.

NX can still be a success in its own right and carve out a niche of its own which Nintendo can built on in the future. Doing 3DS sales would be pretty damn good.
 
M

MacTag

Banned
18-Volt said:
It does not need to be as powerful as PS4 or X1 to survive. But it DOES need to have the same third party support as PS4 and X1. Wii U has been a huge failure and most important reason for this was absence of third party. It was also a proof that just "family friendly" Nintendo software weren't enough to keep it alive. Nintendo right now have to do whatever third parties require them to. Sufficient hardware? Better online capabilities? Larger userbase? Anything.
Click to expand...
Given the rumors we're seeing NX will likely fine spec wise for pretty much everything except the highest end AAA games that just can't scale down below Xbox One spec. And at this point that likely only procludes around a dozen or so properties from a small pool of publishers (EA, Activision, T2, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Square Enix), all of which also produce content that could scale too.

NX support generally should be primairily a question of marketplace rather than technology. That's really where Nintendo has more serious work to do.

firelogic said:
N64 wasn't like PS1. Was it successful?

Gamecube wasn't like PS2/XBOX. Was it successful?

WiiU wasn't like PS3/360. Was it successful? (The WiiU came out 7 years(?) after the 360. Too little too late)

Wii is the only success story and that's an outlier. A crazy outlier that's not likely to happen again.

If you take out the Wii, Nintendo has been on a steady decline since the SNES for home consoles.
Click to expand...
Technically Nintendo's been on a steady decline since NES in the home console arena, excepting Wii. The drop from NES to SNES to N64 to GC to Wii U was around 10-15m each time.

I think N64 can also be classed as a success despite the end numbers looking modest compared to PS1. It made Nintendo a ton of money, sold a ton of games, was hugely relevant in the industry during it's day, and was quite competitive in the American market. And even it's numbers aren't that bad in context, it sold more than any Sega console (including MD/Genesis officially) and more than Xbox One likely will.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
There doesn't seem to be a market for the underpowered home console, so I don't think that half of the hybrid won't be much of a selling feature if you ask me.

If it were closer to the xb1/ps4 the ability to get ports from those systems would only add value.

As is, Success will mostly ride in its mobile capabilities.
 
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