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Kramer:'Jerry, N's should be hanging from trees,not that there is anything wrong WT'
- Thread starter Templar Wizard
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The thing about the lawsuit is that it makes the issue divisive when it didn't need to be. It could have just been a "gut check" where we see the line being stepped over, we realize why that line is there, and we move on. The lawsuit suddenly makes Michael Richards a victim of the situation as well, as it's clearly frivolous.borghe said:
In order to not be a frivolous lawsuit, these men would have to demonstrate personal harm and damages - something they not only have neglected to mention, and their lawyer neglected to mention, but that they actually dodged in the interview, saying something to the effect that they'd "let the lawyer figure out" their legal standing in the matter. Compare this to the TV producer who lost her job due to Borat , who repeatedly discusses how her firing has affected her. The Michael Richards lawsuit just smells like bullshit - and that's before you even get into the whole question of whether everyone who experiences a disturbing or offensive remark is entitled to financial compensation. Bleh.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
terrene said:
Seriously. I'm not behind M. Richards for saying that shit (nor were many other people) and his career should (and WILL) suffer ... But SUING him? Srsly, wtf? It's like these guys got called an inflammatory name and then yelled "Jackpot!" while giving each other high fives. Way to lose sympathy.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
dem said:
Um yes it is threatening.. very. if you don't want to believe so that is fine. But it is indeed a threat. Body langauge aside the words are threatening.. both examples...
Talking down to someone can be threatening... just because he wanted to talk down to someone doesn't mean it isn't threatening.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Blackace said:
Thomson & Gale Legal Encyclopedia said:
There was nothing imminent about what he did. He was on a stage doing a routine (poorly). End of story. These people are just gold digging.
Panic_Attack
Banned
Lol @ them trying to get money from him. Way to make yourselves look low as shit.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Blackace said:
I guess it could be construed that way.
However, I'm more than willing to bet that if there wasn't the ability to sue over this, no one would have ever thought to think of Richards' outburst as a threat. The initial reactions to the incident (from what I've seen) mentioned nothing about a threat or fear or any reaction other than outrage.
In fact, the victims' reaction from the tape I saw was to walk out and yell "That's uncalled for" and to vaguely threaten Richards. If I remember correctly, they said something about "going out back" and "seeing what's up" and Richards then asked if they were threatening him. I guess it'd just be too funny for him to sue them over this...
borghe said:
Don't entirely agree with that. Again, heckling at a live comedy show is part of the game. If a person is that disruptive, the comedian can simply ask security to escort them out of the premises. Or he could've told him to shut the **** up before he rammed his circumsized cock in his craw.
Again, I don't agree with the lawsuit...it's defintely frivilous, and shows a side to them that sadly probably makes both the blatant and closet racists nod their heads and go "yeah, Kramer was right after all". But saying they shouldn't be able to launch it just doesn't make sense. Shit, it's America...the constitution basically guarantees the right to sue. :lol
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
SnakeswithLasers said:
He has a right to counter sue or sue over those threats. And what they did say back to him was indeed threaten..
It is really hard to try to pick apart the words that he said because they are so many feelings mixed up in there.. threatening is one.. most racist comments are threatening to said group..
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Blackace said:
I can't disagree that screaming racial slurs is inherently threatening ... <sigh> Kramer, Kramer, Kramer.
Nonetheless, I hope (and am rather certain) that this lawsuit gets nowhere. The above poster is correct in stating that by going out and suing Richards, these guys are just cementing the racist feelings that people already have whereas there was at least a possibility that witnessing this outburst and it's affect might have made people think twice about their notions. Meh, who am I kidding...probably not.
I agree they have the right to, I don't think the right to sue needs to be curtailed or anything like that. But it is a frivolous lawsuit and will waste a lot of time and money while getting nowhere. Although, it could imitate the OJ trial's "racial divide" where the side claiming racism is able to implant the idea in the public's mind that a certain outcome is "pro-racism." This happened in Hollywood - I sure hope the trial isn't televised.Shinobi said:
It doesn't seem to be as sensational a trial as Michael Jackson or something, but I'm sure it will pique public interest once it begins. If Richards is smart (and it wouldn't appear he is), he'll settle out of court. Again: Bleh.
shpankey
not an idiot
anger can make you say shit you don't mean at all. when someone REALLY hits your button, you will lash out with the most mean thing that comes to you. i really feel this is more of an anger and maturity issue than it is a racist one.JeffDowns said:
when i was younger, i would scream all kinds of things at my brother that weren't true and i didn't mean. i even did it to my mom once and to my grandfather. i had anger issues and when i hit a boiling point, i couldn't control myself and would say the meanest thing i could think of... whatever words i thought could hurt them the most. i think this may be the case here also.
let me clarify though, what he said is definitely racist and absolutely wrong in ever way. i'm just not so sure that he is a racist b/c he said it in an obvious moment of rage. i'm not sure anyone will understand this, unless you too have had rage issues yourself. it's scary shit when you're out of control of yourself, trust me.
DeathCabCute
Banned
shpankey said:
Portuguese do speak a kind of spanish as well, or is it exactly spanish, but no it was the spaniards. They were afterall the ones who first colonized the new world. America is named after one of them.
Can you really sue someone for calling you names? I mean, I can understand asking for a refund on the ticket, or something like that. But Richards didn't cause any real damage to them. He damaged himself, and that's punishment enough. The lame apologies are embarassment enough for him. I can't endorse suing him too. He's an ass...end of story. PEACE.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
DeathCabCute said:
Amerigo Vespucci was Italian.
DeathCabCute
Banned
GoutPatrol said:
Yes, correct. Need a refresher.
DeathCabCute
Banned
Ichirou_Oogami said:And portuguese don't speak a kind of spanish, they speak...portuguese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Spanish_and_Portuguese
"kind"
PhoenixDark
Banned
This entire incident happened while I was banned, so I wanted to give my opinion. I haven't read this entire thread but I see a couple different opinions being repeated over and over again.
I feel Richard's rant has really brought the hypocrisy and stupidity of the word to light. As a black person, I have been called a nigger before. But I'm 19, and I cannot honestly say that my understanding of the word is as good as my parents, or their parents; I haven't experienced the things they went through, and because of this the word doesn't mean the same thing to me, or carry the same weight. My grandmother wasn't allowed to work most jobs because of her skin color. Instead she was given a job in which she washed laundry outside, during all seasons of the year, just to feed her children. Today she has chronic arthirits in her hands. "Nigger" means something to her. It doesn't mean anything to some kid buying all the designer clothes and shoes a McDonalds salary can afford.
We have been conditioned to respond to the word a certain way. Because of this, there is a certain "group mentality" when it comes to the word. So if a white person uses the word as Richards did, we are all supposed to be outraged and ready to march. Why is that? There is nothing cute or endearing about the n word, no matter how you spell it. The definition of the word remains "ignorant, below human". Yet this is what we call ourselves everyday on the playground, or online, or in the comfort of our homes. Why is this? Why is it that many of my black peers laugh at me for liking rock music, being "smart", readings, and "acting white"? Since when does "being smart" equal "acting white"? When you say this, you are essentially saying you are stupid. You are ignorant. You are a nigger. You are not worthy.
This is self hate, and I don't think we can simply blame this on slavery and white people and move on. This behavior and attitude is re-inforced and propagated by blacks now. BET? Mainstream rap music? Soulplane? As has been said before, it has come to a point where some of us are running the minstrel show and profiting off it. But in the end we all lose.
This is why I cannot be offended by what someone as insignifigant as Michael Richards said. This is why I have absolutely no respect for the likes of Jesse Jackson or Paul Mooney, who both actually lived through the Civil Rights era yet only now realize nigger shouldn't be said by anyone. They are disgraceful, and these are our "leaders"? This is nothing more than another sing and dance publicity stunt for him to attach his name to. Where is Jesse Jackson on black on black violence in America? Where is Jesse Jackson on HIV/AIDS in the black community?
Martin Luther King didn't sit back and complain and bitch about what whites were doing. He acted. Malcolm X didn't sit around just blaming the white man for everything. He felt that before we worry about others we should get ourselves together. Work on our own problems. Fix what we can. We can't control what Michael Richards says, but we can address HIV/AIDS in the black community. We can call out BET for the disgraceful trash it is, and advocate change. It's probably too late to do anything about the n word though, as we have sat back and let the issue fester and burn into the youth's brains.
Jesse Jackson, Paul Mooney, and the National Black Caucus should be ashamed of themselves and their pathetic "leadership". I have no ill feelings towards Michael Richards - as I said, he's insignifigant in the long run. What is signifigant is that once again the so called leaders of the black community have failed their people. It's high time we stopped worrying about what Bush or whites or comedians are saying and doing, and fix up our own house.
I feel Richard's rant has really brought the hypocrisy and stupidity of the word to light. As a black person, I have been called a nigger before. But I'm 19, and I cannot honestly say that my understanding of the word is as good as my parents, or their parents; I haven't experienced the things they went through, and because of this the word doesn't mean the same thing to me, or carry the same weight. My grandmother wasn't allowed to work most jobs because of her skin color. Instead she was given a job in which she washed laundry outside, during all seasons of the year, just to feed her children. Today she has chronic arthirits in her hands. "Nigger" means something to her. It doesn't mean anything to some kid buying all the designer clothes and shoes a McDonalds salary can afford.
We have been conditioned to respond to the word a certain way. Because of this, there is a certain "group mentality" when it comes to the word. So if a white person uses the word as Richards did, we are all supposed to be outraged and ready to march. Why is that? There is nothing cute or endearing about the n word, no matter how you spell it. The definition of the word remains "ignorant, below human". Yet this is what we call ourselves everyday on the playground, or online, or in the comfort of our homes. Why is this? Why is it that many of my black peers laugh at me for liking rock music, being "smart", readings, and "acting white"? Since when does "being smart" equal "acting white"? When you say this, you are essentially saying you are stupid. You are ignorant. You are a nigger. You are not worthy.
This is self hate, and I don't think we can simply blame this on slavery and white people and move on. This behavior and attitude is re-inforced and propagated by blacks now. BET? Mainstream rap music? Soulplane? As has been said before, it has come to a point where some of us are running the minstrel show and profiting off it. But in the end we all lose.
This is why I cannot be offended by what someone as insignifigant as Michael Richards said. This is why I have absolutely no respect for the likes of Jesse Jackson or Paul Mooney, who both actually lived through the Civil Rights era yet only now realize nigger shouldn't be said by anyone. They are disgraceful, and these are our "leaders"? This is nothing more than another sing and dance publicity stunt for him to attach his name to. Where is Jesse Jackson on black on black violence in America? Where is Jesse Jackson on HIV/AIDS in the black community?
Martin Luther King didn't sit back and complain and bitch about what whites were doing. He acted. Malcolm X didn't sit around just blaming the white man for everything. He felt that before we worry about others we should get ourselves together. Work on our own problems. Fix what we can. We can't control what Michael Richards says, but we can address HIV/AIDS in the black community. We can call out BET for the disgraceful trash it is, and advocate change. It's probably too late to do anything about the n word though, as we have sat back and let the issue fester and burn into the youth's brains.
Jesse Jackson, Paul Mooney, and the National Black Caucus should be ashamed of themselves and their pathetic "leadership". I have no ill feelings towards Michael Richards - as I said, he's insignifigant in the long run. What is signifigant is that once again the so called leaders of the black community have failed their people. It's high time we stopped worrying about what Bush or whites or comedians are saying and doing, and fix up our own house.
PhoenixDark said:
j/k
You make some very good points, but I get this vibe from you that you are so involved in white American culture that you have almost completely abandoned your racial identity. I understand you have had some bad experiences with people of your own race, but theres no need to hate your own people because of a few assholes. There are plenty of white kids who pick on other whites for being smart or liking certain types of music too. It's not a black thing man.
PhoenixDark said:
Whether you realize it or not, blacks have been fighting an uphill battle against poverty ever since slavery was ended and we were dumped on our asses with no reparations. With more and more blacks getting educated and making their mark in society, things are definitely on the upswing...but we would be a lot better off if most of us didn't come from generation after generation of poor families. Mainstream urban black culture might be annoying in some ways, but they are just forms of entertainment and they are not to blame for the ills of black society. My sister probably saw Soul Plane in the theaters, and she pulls in almost 6 figures. It's just a ****ing (bad) comedy. And Black mainstream music glorifies violence in the same way action/gangster movies do. I'm convinced that all the problems in the black community can be blamed on poverty and lack of education. As more blacks get educated, they will make more money and commit less crimes. Whether we talk a little different than whites, dress a little different, listen to music that might be a little violent...those things mean nothing in the long run as long as we make something of ourselves, but at the same time - BE OURSELVES.
But anyway, like it or not, the N word is ours. I believe it is our right to use the word however we want to use it. If we want to turn it into a term of endearment, so be it. It's already been established that the word can be used by whites in a tasteful manner. Plenty of white comedians have done so. But Richards, racist or not, used the word in such a hateful, disgusting manner. Personally, I'm more pissed off about the "hanging upside down with a fork up your ass comment" than him saying nigger, and I think everyone else should be more upset over that remark as well.
Since this whole situation looks to be reaching its relevancy expiration date (long overdue), I'd like to sum up my final opinions:
1) I think Richards's worst crime here was being a bad stand-up comic that didn't know how to deal with hecklers, and thus he went for the lowest, most "shocking" blow at a time when he knew it was necessary to respond to save face. He's not a racist, he's just a bad stand-up comic.
2) If nobody in the club had brought a camera into the club that night, this story would've been a footnote. Instead, thanks to YouTube, internet gossip sites, and Drudge, most Americans probably believe that Michael Richards did this on a live telecast in front of millions of people. On the contrary, if not for the internet, this story would've been of no interest to the hundred and some people in the club and their friends.
3) Just goes to show that there's no such thing as publicity. Seinfeld DVD sales have shot through the roof as compared to the last two releases. You know what that means? Richards will make more money this year than in the previous due to being perceived as a public racist. Hell, maybe Homer Simpson should call a bunch of people niggers in a Simpsons episode to fund season 20 through 30.
4) Thinking about the ratio of this incidence's triviality in comparison to the amount of media attention it received, it kinda feels like the good ol' pre-Bush America. We can finally, once again, care about stupid bullshit again. God bless America.
Also, is someone is saying that Portuguese and Spanish are the same languages? How about we wrap Italian up in there, too. The fewer real languages the EU has, the more likely it is that Squeenix will put resources into localizing releases.
1) I think Richards's worst crime here was being a bad stand-up comic that didn't know how to deal with hecklers, and thus he went for the lowest, most "shocking" blow at a time when he knew it was necessary to respond to save face. He's not a racist, he's just a bad stand-up comic.
2) If nobody in the club had brought a camera into the club that night, this story would've been a footnote. Instead, thanks to YouTube, internet gossip sites, and Drudge, most Americans probably believe that Michael Richards did this on a live telecast in front of millions of people. On the contrary, if not for the internet, this story would've been of no interest to the hundred and some people in the club and their friends.
3) Just goes to show that there's no such thing as publicity. Seinfeld DVD sales have shot through the roof as compared to the last two releases. You know what that means? Richards will make more money this year than in the previous due to being perceived as a public racist. Hell, maybe Homer Simpson should call a bunch of people niggers in a Simpsons episode to fund season 20 through 30.
4) Thinking about the ratio of this incidence's triviality in comparison to the amount of media attention it received, it kinda feels like the good ol' pre-Bush America. We can finally, once again, care about stupid bullshit again. God bless America.
Also, is someone is saying that Portuguese and Spanish are the same languages? How about we wrap Italian up in there, too. The fewer real languages the EU has, the more likely it is that Squeenix will put resources into localizing releases.
DeathCabCute
Banned
Ichirou_Oogami said:
Did I ever say they were the same language? I think you're being ignorant of the similarity between them. The point of the post that you decided to comment on was to clarify why Portuguese and Spanish may be confused. So save your contributions since you don't have any relevant or new information to add to the discussion.
Ichirou_Oogami said:If you can't understand what someone else is saying, guess what...you two might not be speaking the same language!
As far as this ignorant generalization, since when does phonology completely separate two dialects. Ever been to Louisiana or Boston? Even Ukrainian and Russian still share similarities based on their common origins despite being different languages.
You really should take up a study of common origins of language and reasons for their similarity before arguing definitions with anyone.
Can you take your own advice and take that like a man? I doubt it.
Mermandala
Member
O Boy! The musings of popular/hated poster PhoenixDark!
Please bury this thread, it is long-dead.
Please bury this thread, it is long-dead.
PhoenixDark
Banned
3kuSaS said:
So because I'm willing to step back and call degenerate behavior what it is, I'm embracing white culture? I have not abandoned my identity, and I find it insulting that you would attempt to say such a thing. You realize that this is the exact same herd mentality I talked about right?
3kuSaS said:
With movies there is a clear understanding that what you are seeing is fake and meant for entertainment. This cannot be said of much rap, which glorifies the very things that hold the black community back while presenting itself as "real". I'm old enough to realize 50 Cent is as fake as Tony Montana, but this certainly can't be said of everyone.
3kuSaS said:
Do you have examples of this?
DeathCabCute said:
Yes, you did.
DeathCabCute said:
There's a big difference between "a kind of spanish" (i.e., regional Spanish like Andalucian Spanish or Argentinian Spanish) and "a romance language with root similarities to spanish." Admit you made a mistake, move on, stop embarassing yourself.
P.S. Using big words like "phonology" doesn't make your mistake any less stupid, and fools no one.
Hey now, the media gave us plenty of stupid bullshit stories to care about even with two wars going on and Hurricane Katrina. We got ourselves the missing white girl in Aruba, the runaway bride, Paris Hilton's sex tape, Britney Spears's multiple weddings, Tom Cruise, OMG Brad Pitt dumped Jennifer Aniston!, etc.White Man said:
DeathCabCute
Banned
Ichirou_Oogami said:
So now you are telling me what I said. Does this make arguing with me easier, when you can make my argument for me then dispute it. Whatever works.
Tell you what. The next time you see someone refer to two different languages in the same sentence with the word kind in them it's safe to assume they're only referring to vast similarities and not that they're the same language.
Ichirou_Oogami said:
These examples are regional only and really have nothing to do with comparing similarities between two different languages. By the way its Argentinean not Argentinian. Also Andalusian not Andalucian
Big word? I'm sorry but are you in high school? If so, Im very sorry for fighting with you young man. Could you please call your dad to the computer so I can continue this "riveting" discussion with an adult? Thanks.Ichirou_Oogami said:
DeathCabCute said:
No, I'm quoting what you said, which is that Portuguese people speak "a kind of spanish." They don't. Stop being moronic.
DeathCabCute said:
Uhm, no. Had you said Portuguese was kind of similar to Spanish in that they're both romance languages, instead of saying that PORTUGUESE IS A KIND OF SPANISH, then I would take that as a given. Jesus Christ, dude, you didn't even know who Amerigo Vespucci was. End your embarassment and just admit you didn't know wtf you were talking about. :lol
DeathCabCute said:
Thanks for correcting my spelling mistakes, dude. Doesn't make you any less of a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual ass, and doesn't make you any less wrong with your two initial posts, but hey, thanks. Maybe I should have corrected you regarding the use of capital letters when referring to languages, y'know, to repay your kindness? Hmm.
Edit: BTW, I checked the dictionary and "Argentinian" and "Argentinean" both seem to be correct. You got me on Andalusian, though! In my defense, in Spanish it's spelled with a "c."
DeathCabCute said:
I meant it was a big word for you. I'm sure that having started college, you feel the need to broaden your vocabulary and you're just ITCHING to use all those new words you're learning in skewl. Keep it up! One day you may actually be able to have an adult discussion! Until then, just remember that Portuguese isn't "a kind" of Spanish.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
I should get my Portuguese girlfriend to come and set you guys straight.
I said wow.
3kuSaS said:
I said wow.
travisbickle
Member
Hey look, phoenix dark is back, has he lost his virginity yet?
DeathCabCute
Banned
travisbickle said:
Just how many virgins are on this board?
PhoenixDark
Banned
btf1980 said:
He's not, I agree. I should have made it more clear that my main problem lies with Jackson and the National Black Caucus
My point about Mooney and the Civil Rights era stands though. As I said, he lived through that yet only now thinks the n word is harmful and shouldn't be said (or profited off, as he has done for years)? Please
Also I'd like to say this discussion has been very civil, and I'm both suprised and impressed.
I had completely missed that this had happened and am quite a bit late to the party but figured I'd share my opinion anyway. I had been happily enjoying Seinfeld and Kramer until I saw this a couple of days ago - now I feel sorry for Kramer whenever I see him as I know what a sad future he has in store.
It's so sad to see him apologize in front of a previous co-actor that's gained tremendous success while he's nothing but a failed, washed out actor who only get by because of a role ten years ago.
It's so sad to see him apologize in front of a previous co-actor that's gained tremendous success while he's nothing but a failed, washed out actor who only get by because of a role ten years ago.
Kitschkraft
Member
Shanadeus said:
Monster bump.
Hellsing321
Member
WTF?! I thought I went back in time.
Siebzehn50
Member
Can somebody bump this guy down to a Junior, please?
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