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Fury451 · May 22, 2015

Robin64 said:
Mobile games are mostly shit.

A couple are decent, but man is it hard to find them, especially if you don't have a community like GAF to help.

Yep. There's been a couple I've liked but I mostly found them via GAF, the rest I've tried I usually played for about a day or two and then deleted out of boredom.

Device 6 was amazing but I don't even know if that counts as what you think of with "mobile." Otherwise a vast majority of them are pretty crappy.

Robin64 · May 22, 2015

More_Badass said:
"games and applications"
Not everything on the App Store is a game.

The bar for December 2014 is over 30,000 games and apps, of which 13,000 were games.

VLiberty · May 22, 2015

I'm not a huge fan of mobile games because of controls, but I've tried to approach them(4 years ago I bought an ipod touch with the sole purpose of playing games in it) and I've gotta admit that the situation is not nearly as bad as people depict and imo most of those people are just ignorant on the matter.

Unfortunately, it's apparently a rule of thumb of this world to shit on something you aren't actually fully aware of.

NFreak · May 22, 2015

I do my best to try not to shit on mobile games. There are some really unique and interesting games out on mobile. My animosity towards the platform stems solely from the fact that I believe it promotes incredibly shitty business practices and makes developers lazy. The good games on mobile are usually from developers who take advantage of the hardware's limitations and build their games with that in mind, but for the most part from what I see, lots of devs would rather throw out a seemingly rushed product that may make a quick buck. Also the fact that mobile games have pretty much ushered in micro-transactions. Yeah, that just sucks.

TheGraykid · May 22, 2015

99% of PC games are trash. 99% of everything is trash. An issue with curation on the app stores doesn't mean you should be stupid and say mobile games are all trash.

MrNyarlathotep · May 22, 2015

Ladekabel said:
Someone photoshop that on a Steve Jobs image!

CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls · May 22, 2015

Triggerhappytel said:
I mean none of you are wrong, but you're judging mobile games by the worst examples. It's like judging console games by shit like Ride to Hell or Raven's Cry alone, or concluding that all Steam games are terrible because of Guise of the Wolf or Air Control.

The barrier of entry to mobile games is so low which means there are a ton of terrible games, but it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good games like The Room, Monument Valley, Game Dev Story, Major Mayhem, Great Little War Game, Hitman Go, etc. Try these games which are built from the ground up for touch screens before judging the medium as a whole.

Compare the plethora of mobile games with current gen console libraries. The ratio of good:bad is much different between the two.

Regardless of if mobile games are built specifically for the device, mobile gaming in general is still unimpressive, in almost every regard.

Steam has an extensive library of shit games, but I won't get into that.

mp1990 · May 22, 2015

NinjaCatfish said:
Wii and PS2 had a huge amount of trash, but had some gems. I feel like mobile is much the same (though of course with a much higher overall number of games).

Writing off all mobile games as garbage is just so lazy and uninformed.

Uhh, you're not comparing PS2 and Wii game library to mobile, are you ? Because both consoles didn't had some gems, they had A LOT, and i mean it, of great games, many of them still considered GOATs today. It's not like that you needed to look deep into their libraries to find good games, like you need to do on mobiles, you look at any genre, action, sports, anything, and you'll find many good games.

Arc Christelle · May 22, 2015

Terra Battle has had my heart for a while now.

jetjevons · May 22, 2015

pants said:
You care too much about this shit if you find people talking smack about cellphones upsetting to the point of being disgusting

I've played and enjoyed dozens of great games on my iPhone and iPad. I just find it reductive and unproductive to generalize entire platforms as nothing but "shit". And yes, I care about gaming. Hence my posting on a forum dedicated to gaming.

Mihos · May 22, 2015

Spork4000 said:

This would be a valid compromise, if you didn't have developers like square enix making their games fricken portrait mode only.

Freedom = $1.05 · May 22, 2015

Mobile games have only taken off because people have been receptive to them. Don't hate the devs/pubs, hate the people who make mobile games a viable moneymaking platform.

thelastcrusader · May 22, 2015

MrNyarlathotep said:

Thank you.
Seriously though, the only mobile games I slightly enjoy are TDs but even those turn into cash grabs. I hate that they will charge you a flat fee and then microtransaction the shit out of you. Worst part is most of the content is rehashed over and over again. I one time knew a girl that spent over two hundred bones are a crappy mobile game in a month. She got addicted big time.

Jobbs · May 22, 2015

Freedom = $1.05 said:
Mobile games have only taken off because people have been receptive to them. Don't hate the devs/pubs, hate the people who make mobile games a viable moneymaking platform.

I don't think I should enjoy or condone predatory tactics by game companies just because they've made money.

daveo42 · May 22, 2015

Keyser Soze said:
Steam can be a wasteland of Garbage too. Every platform can be. Steam is horrible right now. Looking through new releases on Steam can bring up as equally bad results as a glace at an App Store.

No denying that. I mean, look at the Wii's catalogue. I think the main differences here are the sheer volume of garbage released on mobile dwarfs what gets released on Steam and the difference in self-discovery between these platforms. I can still look through games coming out on Steam and find some good stuff. Mobile, I wait until someone gives a game glowing praise until I decide to check it out.

The only other rebuttal I have is that garbage games do make money on the platform and can be insanely popular while being bad. Case in point: Flappy Bird.

AcademicSaucer · May 22, 2015

MrNyarlathotep said:

You can see the regret

Blackage · May 22, 2015

Robin64 said:
According to this, in December 2014 alone, 13,002 games were submitted to the iTunes Store. That's just an obscene amount and people saying 99% of mobile games are shit are really being generous.

So yeah, everything had shovelware, but when you consider the SNES (for example) had about 1500 games by the end of its life (and not nearly that amount in just the US), the ratio is totally different.

And due to mobile gaming having such a ridiculous amount of awful games released monthly it's really not much of a stretch to say that 99% of all games are trash, with mobile leading the charge!

I've tried to get into mobile games, but so much of it is awful, the most popular ones normal people harp on about are the ones that practically play themselves with F2P mechanics that let you play them faster for more money.

The mobile market is really just a gross and stomach churning to me. =/

lemon__fresh · May 22, 2015

Look what I found, a thread highlighting the good ios games released every month. Wait?! There are decent mobile games releasing every month? Whaaaaaaa!?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040398

Steam is basically a fire hose of garbage also, luckily there are ways to find the gems. It's pretty easy to tell most people using the 99% argument aren't putting in nearly the same effort to find decent mobile games as they put into finding decent games on non-mobile platforms.

jwhit28 · May 22, 2015

Kssio_Aug said:
Is not mobile games that are trash. Free to Play games with strong benefits behind a paywall are shit... what happens to be most of mobile games, unfortunately.

However, I'm noticing a increase of gaming acceptance after the popularity of mobile games. So I would not say it brings only the worse, cause that's not true.

I just hope we can have more games like Final Fantasy for mobiles, but better priced and with better compatibility. To game in android devices is sometimes still a pain with all its compatibility issues.

I think Final Fantasy is the worst example. Here is a classic franchise in a genre that should actually be better with touch controls. Yet the remakes for mobile ended up looking worse than the originals. Then you have to start worrying about version compatibility and hoping your games get updated when you get a new device.

Maybe when publishers and developers that are famous for their work on dedicated gaming devices start taking mobile seriously more fans of dedicated machines can start taking it more seriously.

duckroll · May 22, 2015

Jobbs said:
I don't think I should enjoy or condone predatory tactics by game companies just because they've made money.

And no one is asking you to. This thread is a discussion about the people who feel they are entitled to go into threads which they clearly have no interest in just to let everyone know they think it is all shit.

deadlast · May 22, 2015

PetriP-TNT said:
... The stigma against mobile gaming in general is strong and unlike similar comments about other platforms, like that topic proves, those kinds of comments are pretty much tolerated with no consequences whatsoever.

But why? Everyone knows that there are quality games on each and every platform and 200 Flappy Bird clones shouldn't change that. Mostly it's the app stores (on Android or iOS) problem, not a "mobile" problem.

But this is a mobile problem. The majority of mobile games are cash grabs or clones. Other platforms copy and borrow, but mobile straight up clones games.

PetriP-TNT said:
"Touch controls are shit" is not very convincing argument when there clearly are games which fit touch controls very well.
"I don't like mobile because handhelds" is either fear mongering,
"I like X because of Y" or just being in denial about modern gaming.

Someone who doesn't like certain controls is not unique to mobile. Very few touch controls work well. And when a game that requires a control is shoe horned into a mobile device, people can certainly be aggravated.
People aren't in denial about modern gaming, they just don't like mobile interfaces.

PetriP-TNT said:
"All games are F2P pay-to-win" doesn't hold absolutely true either, as there clearly are many non-F2P and P2W games around. Are the most popular ones F2P? Possibly, but so what?

You should do a quick search on app stores and see how many pay 2 win and F2P games there are. It's sickening that there is no option to just buy a game you want to play. I know that because all of the games my son wants to play on the iPad are F2P, he gets like 5 rounds then is told he could buy x or Y and play more or wait 12 hours. I would rather pay 5 bucks for a game they he can play when he wants.

Charles Brandon · May 22, 2015

I guess most people here don't like that stuff because mobile games are generally low quality, cheap, shallow experiences that are aimed at people who don't otherwise play games. And that would be absolutely fine if it wasn't for the constant barrage of stories that detail exactly how many resources are being taken away from producing the games we do like so that publishers can pander to people who won't even spend a dollar unless you trick them into it with bulshit F2P mechanics.

Our hobby is being eviscerated for this trash, of course we don't like it.

It sort of reminds me of the Wii, where Nintendo said "fuck all those people who have supported us for twenty years, let's go after to mums and old people".

I understand that there is a commercial imperative here, money to be made etc. But those mums and old people got bored of the Wii and they'll get bored of candy crush too.

Lord Error · May 22, 2015

To name just a recent few, Pro Pinball, Framed, Broken Age, Monument Valley, The Silent Age, Grim Fandango Remastered, Dodonpachi Resurrection, Valiant Hearts, latest Broken Sword, The Room 1/2 are all available on iOS and they all play like a dream. As OP said, hundreds of flappy first clones and F2P garbage games won't ever change that fact.

Nyoro SF · May 22, 2015

Freedom = $1.05 said:
Mobile games have only taken off because people have been receptive to them. Don't hate the devs/pubs, hate the people who make mobile games a viable moneymaking platform.

Hm? Companies promote and monetize these horrible business practices. They take advantage of easily addicted players and abuse random elements. They are absolutely not off the hook.

Keyser Soze · May 22, 2015

OnionPowder said:
99% does not equal every single game.

This argument is pointless, why does a platform have to break a certain threshold of "good" before it is accepted? Also, the standard you want is unreachable in this case. Anyone can make and submit a game on the mobile app stores - as they are open - so there will always be crap available (as people will make crap).

Regardless of how low some people will go, that does not outweigh the good games others will make - and there is a decent amount of them appearing monthly these days.

Jay Sosa · May 22, 2015

AlwaysPlaying said:
Everyone who says mobile games are crap has clearly not played The Room or its sequel The Room 2. Its an amazing and haunting puzzle series.

The reason might be that this is the first time I read about those titles. You guys need to be a better job promoting these games.

KJRS_1993 · May 22, 2015

Haha, oh my days at the first bunch of responses. What a way to prove that 99% of Neogaf posts can also be pretty shit.

Mobile games are excellent, as long as they're built around the strengths of the platform. Plastering an on-screen joypad on top of PS2 games (the GTA ports for example) does not do this.
Games that are built properly around the touchscreen as well as use of the motion sensors can offer a unique experience not found anywhere else.

Jazzy Geoff said:
Our hobby is being eviscerated for this trash, of course we don't like it.

Eviscerated? That's pretty intense.
+ No its not, don't be silly.

Jobbs · May 22, 2015

duckroll said:
And no one is asking you to. This thread is a discussion about the people who feel they are entitled to go into threads which they clearly have no interest in just to let everyone know they think it is all shit.

Well, I don't disagree with the idea that mobile games can or have been good. I don't hate mobile gaming. But to the person's remark I was replying to -- I'd sooner hate the predatory devs/pubs than the users who are preyed upon, which is what he was asking us to do.

Anno · May 22, 2015

Shame that so many people are outright dismissive and/or hostile towards an entire platform, especially one with so many amazing games. For some it almost seems to be out of fear that traditional games will go away which just seems completely outlandish to me.

Ruud_Luiten · May 22, 2015

If 1% of the mobile games is great, that would mean at least 6000 great games. Which is more than the total amount of games on all current gen consoles combined.

So yes, Mobile gaming sucks!

I have about 75 great mobile games. The total price of these games is less than two retail games.

So yes, mobile gaming sucks...

CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls · May 22, 2015

duckroll said:
And no one is asking you to. This thread is a discussion about the people who feel they are entitled to go into threads which they clearly have no interest in just to let everyone know they think it is all shit.

So, what are we supposed to do? Feign ignorance and say mobile gaming more or less isn't shit?

If the case is shitposting in general, targeting mobile gaming specifically is a terrible way to go about it.

Htown · May 22, 2015

99 percent of PS2, Wii, DS and PC games are garbage too.

Hint: Any super popular platform is going to draw a lot of low cost, low effort games that attempt to take advantage of the large player base.

Somehow, though, mobile games get judged by the 99 percent, while console games get judged by the 1 percent.

Sticky&Sweet · May 22, 2015

I would compare the vast majority of them to the Wii's shovelware.

Danny Dudekisser · May 22, 2015

Eh, I think it's fair game. The criticism is less about the games, themselves, and more about the insidious business model driving the more prevalent mobile games. Even if it brings more people into the fold, it creates expectations that are probably bad for the industry as a whole (race to the bottom with prices, shitty cash grabs, skinner box designs, etc.) I don't think it's difficult to understand why people are so ready to dismiss the platform as a whole.

More_Badass · May 22, 2015

OnionPowder said:
99% does not equal every single game.

There were about 250 games released on Steam in April. There were about 3000 Ludum Dare games released in April and god knows how many flash and freeware games

The ratio of quality PC games to free, shit, shallow games is pretty much the same as the ratio on mobile. It just doesn't seem that way because PC games are curated

lyrick · May 22, 2015

The GAF Community for Final Fantasy Record Keeper is pretty decent, are there any others hiding for other more popular titles (like TSTO) ?

Gunstar Ikari · May 22, 2015

Let's stop Vita and Sonic shitposting while we're at it.

Clawww · May 22, 2015

RE: exploitation

I hope people show the same disdain for so many arcade games that did no less

Insane Metal · May 22, 2015

Wow, the ban hammer came strong in this thread hahah.

Also, I don't like mobile games, so I'm not really in position to criticise them. It wouldn't be fair.

mocoworm · May 22, 2015

Why are half the posters on page 1 banned? ... because of their comments in this thread?

catbrush · May 22, 2015

Mobile games appeal to a different audience. Some people will never stop shitposting about mobile, because some people are egocentric and intolerant of anything that isn't made for them.

duckroll · May 22, 2015

META said:
So, what are we supposed to do? Feign ignorance and say mobile gaming more or less isn't shit?

If the case is shitposting in general, targeting mobile gaming specifically is a terrible way to go about it.

What on earth are you talking about. If a new game is announced for PC via Steam, and people go into the thread posting "lol Steam" or "Steam sucks,99% of the games are trash" they will be banned. Mobile as a platform is no different. We're not targeting anything. There is no change in policy.

UCBooties · May 22, 2015

duckroll said:
I think that the forum at large has been pretty tolerant towards people being uncomfortable or scared with regards to mobile gaming. It's a change that might not be for everyone, and seeing talent and resources slip from one thing you like to something you might not care for is understandably distressing. But I don't think we as a forum should tolerate people who have no interest in a discussion wanting to add their worthless two cents to threads which are clearly seeking discussion on an issue. If you don't like something but don't care to say anything other than "lol it's shit", don't be surprised when you find such "contributions" are not welcome.

And that's a reasonable line to draw. However I think that part of the reason OP is getting such a vehement negative reaction is that the thread that they linked to in their first post was about asking why people dislike mobile gaming, and plenty of people took the time to lay out their misgivings with the platform in detail. Instead of actually engaging those viewpoints in the thread, OP just dismissed it as "Shitposting" and acts as though those criticisms are without merit, even though as noted, they refused to actually engage with them in any way.

AyaisMUsikWhore · May 22, 2015

I agree OP. While I don't play Mobile games myself, I don't think they're shit and I think it's a different type of gaming for people who love it. I'm not sure what's wrong with certain people where they believe that certain mediums can't coexist but I believe mobile gaming is here to stay.

There's a market that demands it and I don't wrong any company who chooses to go in that direction. Some people are just really immature about how radical they despise them - because maybe their favorite studio is a believer in them - but if so, it is what it is. Like....?

lemon__fresh · May 22, 2015

Clawww said:
RE: exploitation

I hope people show the same disdain for so many arcade games that did no less

ding ding! Winner!

cheesekao · May 22, 2015

lemon__fresh said:
Look what I found, a thread highlighting the good ios games released every month. Wait?! There are decent mobile games releasing every month? Whaaaaaaa!?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040398

Steam is basically a fire hose of garbage also, luckily there are ways to find the gems. It's pretty easy to tell most people using the 99% argument aren't putting in nearly the same effort to find decent mobile games as they put into finding decent games on non-mobile platforms.

What part of 'most mobile games are shit' do you not understand. Also, many of the games in recommended gaf mobile games thread are terrible. I've tried like a dozen or so and none of them have managed to hold my attention for long. Opinions and all that jazz of course.

More_Badass · May 22, 2015

deadlast said:
I would rather pay 5 bucks for a game they he can play when he wants.

Here you go
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921676

RM8 · May 22, 2015

I love plenty of love games, and I love discovering new cool games thanks to iOS-GAF, but I do think mobile has the absolute worst ratio of crap to gold of any platform, ever. Browsing the app store looking for a good game is basically useless, you need GAF, reddit or other sites to find out which games are legit.

Bytes · May 22, 2015

Sticky&Sweet said:
I would compare the vast majority of them to the Wii's shovelware.

At least with Wii's shovelware, you paid one fixed amount and got the full game to play forever.

I have actually seen phone games that start off as the traditional pay-once-own-forever model, only for the developer to release an update in the future that turned the game into free 2 play IAP crap, thus nullifying your original purchase. I bought a game like that once - I think it was called Robotek. It's that kind of business practice that gives phone games the bad reputation they so rightfully deserve.

More_Badass · May 22, 2015

cheesekao said:
What part of 'most mobile games are shit' do you not understand. Also, many of the games in recommended gaf mobile games thread are terrible. I've tried like a dozen or so and none of them have managed to hold my attention for long. Opinions and all that jazz of course.

Most PC games are shit or free too

At best you only see 10% of PC games released a month when you check out Steam.

More_Badass said:
There were about 250 games released on Steam in April. There were about 3000 Ludum Dare games released in April and god knows how many flash and freeware games

The ratio of quality PC games to free, shit, shallow games is pretty much the same as the ratio on mobile. It just doesn't seem that way because PC games are curated

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