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Sales-Age: Nintendo: Third-Party Games do sell on Wii you know

N

Neomoto

Member
I just noticed he is banned :lol

Anyway, what I find funny is that some people always compare 3rd party million sellers on Wii directly against those of the Xbox360, completely ignoring the fact that the xbox360 has been a whole year longer on the market. If you imagine Wii being the Xbox360 for a second, at this point in time (18 months since launch) CoD 4, GTA IV, Assassins Creed, Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Madden NFL 08, Rock Band etc etc wouldn't even have launched yet. I mean, this is pretty significant since these are the majority of the best selling xbox360 3rd party titles now (hell, even Halo 3 wasn't out yet then from a first party perspective). How about comparing Xbox 360's 3rd party million sellers in the first 18 months against those of the Wii? Seems like a much fairer comparison to me, guess I'm just crazy like that. ;-)

Guybrush Threepwood said:
Because if you take it out (it shouldn't even count anyway), that blue line plummets.
Click to expand...
Not really... Wii Play is at 6 million the US.

From page 2:

Wii - 50 million (not including Wii Sports)
X360 - 28 million
PS3 - 20 million
PS2 - 42 million

Substract 6 millino from the 50 million and Wii is still on top. Nice try though.
 
S

Sadist

Member
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Because if you take it out (it shouldn't even count anyway), that blue line plummets.
Click to expand...
But it still would be above the 360 software sales. :)

Please, not this disussion again? According to the NPD it counts.
 
V

Vinci

Danish
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Because if you take it out (it shouldn't even count anyway), that blue line plummets.
Click to expand...

So the earlier number of 29 million for 3rd party sales included Wii Play? Scandalous.
 
A

Arde5643

Member
Neomoto said:
I just noticed he is banned :lol
Click to expand...

Never fear!

Guybrush Threepwood referring to WiiPlay in third party sales said:
Because if you take it out (it shouldn't even count anyway), that blue line plummets.
Click to expand...

is here to take us through the whole popcorn page again! :lol
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
i'm going to do a software numbers survey using famitsu (garaph) and npd. since nintendo likes the 400k mark, we'll use that.

then we can really measure our sales penises.
 
J

jeremy1456

Junior Member
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Because if you take it out (it shouldn't even count anyway), that blue line plummets.
Click to expand...

And if we take you out then the dumb trolling in this thread plummets.

Win win.
 
D

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Wii is SO MUCH like the NDS, eventually something will *snap* with most Wii-haters/naysayers and they'll just get one in the end...just like NDS. The "moving goalposts" term is so true, eventually NDS pushed the goalposts to quite possibly being the most successful system of all time before it was finally taken seriously by "serious" gamers and game makers. I imagine the same would likely have to happen for Wii before it's finally accepted by the "hardcore" "real game gamer" or whatever it is these eletists are calling themselves these days.
 
R

Redd

Member
domokunrox said:
This thread was comedy at its finest. I mean 3 pages of popcorn.gif material.

Anyway, onto the topic. 3rd party games sell really well on the Wii. Its good news and needs to be recognized for this, even though some of us knew this for months already. Then we have idiots like Warlox that live in Bizzaro world, and unfortunately theres a lot of people out there who think exactly like him, but don't post or don't talk about gaming over the net.

I'm certain that theres people out there that are willing to buy those 3rd party games. There has to be. I mean, I remember the Barbie game on NES way back in the day. Doesn't appeal to me, but I'm sure there was a reason for it existing. Was it a good game? I don't know. Probably not. But to someone else it was, and who are we to judge them?
Click to expand...

That Barbie game on the NES was sex. To beat the game you literally have to jump clouds to heaven. I've beat that game and got to date Ken. It was a perfect day.
 
G

Guybrush Threepwood

Banned
Nocebo said:
Do you know how to read graphs? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Click to expand...

Well, you know what I mean.

Anyway, I'd love to see that chart with third party sales only, and with that I'm out of this thread. To be honest, I don't really care about sales anyway. :p
 
D

donny2112

Member
Guybrush Threepwood said:
wii-play.jpg
Click to expand...

Yeah! One of my favorite games on the system. The pool simulation is the best I've ever played. I hope they decide to expand it (or someone blatantly rips off the controls) and make a more full-featured game out of it. The cow racing is great fun with youngsters, too. I sure am glad you decided to turn this into a Wii Play lovefest. Thank you! :D

3rd-party topic. Wii Sports is the most influential game of possibly any video game generation ever bar maybe Super Mario Bros., and it has zero sales according to NPD. Go figure.
 
P

pete_townshend

Banned
DrGAKMAN said:
Wii is SO MUCH like the NDS, eventually something will *snap* with most Wii-haters/naysayers and they'll just get one in the end...just like NDS. The "moving goalposts" term is so true, eventually NDS pushed the goalposts to quite possibly being the most successful system of all time before it was finally taken seriously by "serious" gamers and game makers. I imagine the same would likely have to happen for Wii before it's finally accepted by the "hardcore" "real game gamer" or whatever it is these eletists are calling themselves these days.
Click to expand...

Of course, the difference is that when the NDS went supernova it already had lots of good games, ranging from that most casual shit to the hardest of the hard core. It also had the promise of a constant stream of good games coming in the pipeline.

The Wii lineup, on the other hand, is pretty mediocre from a "real game gamer" perspective. Outside of the tent post Nintendo games, a few decent PS2 ports, and a couple other random 3rd party efforts, there isn't much to choose from. The 12-month forecast for new "hardcore" games on the system can only be described as poor.

When the current 5-week run on XBLA is better than the Wii lineup for the rest of 2008, there isn't a lot of incentive for the "eletists" to give in and buy one.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Guybrush Threepwood said:
To be honest, I don't really care about sales anyway. :p
Click to expand...

There's a word for this.

=====

Ok, w/o NPD data immediately accessible (and w/o searching every thread and compiling every top 10 revealed each month) we'll start a serious inquiry into 3rd party comparisons between consoles.

We start in Japan. Everything over 200k is included, with the assumption that 98% of these titles hit over 400k WW. It is a large assumption, but one well-grounded in reality (NPD data usually = 3x-4x MC). With this basic assumption, I should probably go down to 100k, but let's leave well enough alone for now.

Code: 
Wii		Japan

[B][U]Title					Publisher	LTD[/U][/B]
Wii Sports 				Nintendo 	3,055,599
Wii Play 				Nintendo 	2,431,182
Wii Fit 				Nintendo 	2,365,304
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 		Nintendo 	1,666,323
Mario Kart Wii 				Nintendo 	1,600,910
Mario Party 8 				Nintendo 	1,239,716
Super Mario Galaxy 			Nintendo 	912,746
WarioWare: Smooth Moves 		Nintendo 	568,623
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games 	Nintendo 	561,003
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 	Nintendo 	552,476
Super Paper Mario 			Nintendo 	505,491
Dragon Quest Swords			Square Enix 	486,222
Pokémon Battle Revolution 		Pokémon 	332,892
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree 		Nintendo 	261,161
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles 	Capcom 		241,855
Mario Strikers Charged 			Nintendo 	217,780
Deca Sporta: Wii de Sports 10 Shumoku! 	Hudson 		204,052

Code: 
360		Japan	

[B][U]Title		Publisher	LTD	[/U][/B]
Blue Dragon  	Microsoft  	203,740

Code: 
PS3		Japan	

[B][U]Title						Publisher		LTD	[/U][/B]
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots  	Konami  		621,653
Hot Shots Golf 5 				SCEJ 			384,882	
Shin Sangoku Musou 5 				Koei 			356,266	
Dynasty Warriors Gundam 			Namco Bandai Games 	312,674	
Devil May Cry 4 				Capcom 			304,652	
World Soccer Winning Eleven 2008 		Konami 			275,069	
Yakuza: Kenzan! 				Sega 			267,242	
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue 			SCE 			202,131
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
next-gen defense force:

"but if you combine the 360 and PS3 3rd party lines, many of which are direct ports, it clearly favors next gen in regards to sales potential."



And that argument STILL holds water.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
Maybe this have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but does anyone know how many 3rd party games the PS3, the Xbox 360 and the Wii have?
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
test_account said:
Maybe this have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but does anyone know how many 3rd party games the PS3, the Xbox 360 and the Wii have?
Click to expand...

How many 3rd party games each have? Huh? Why? You mean just for total-library bragging rights?
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
PantherLotus said:
How many 3rd party games each have? Huh? Why? You mean just for total-library bragging rights?
Click to expand...
"Have" might not have been the best choice of word, sorry, i ment how many 3rd party titles there excist for each system (PS3, Xbox 360, Wii). People can brag about it they want, i'm just curious about the numbers of titles :)
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
For the record, console sales at 19 months were ~5.55 million for 360, ~4.5 million for PS3, and ~10.2 million for Wii. (The source of this is NeoGAF's own monthly NPD threads as well as other sources of publically-released NPD figures, though it will likely differ from others' totals slightly, as I had to rely on less-certain sources for some of my early 360 numbers--not the chartz site, though.)

The difference between PS3 and 360 sales, when seen is that light, is pretty unexpected.
 
D

donny2112

Member
PantherLotus said:
next-gen defense force:

"but if you combine the 360 and PS3 3rd party lines, many of which are direct ports, it clearly favors next gen in regards to sales potential."



And that argument STILL holds water.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Costs are not equal, and the marginal increase in total sales do not overcome that. Total third-party revenue on PS360 in the U.S. is higher, but I do not believe that profits (if there is profit when you total all third-party PS360 games) are.

RobertM said:
No so we would know how many games encompass those sales.
Click to expand...

Averages are nearly useless. The PS2 average per third-party title would've been horrendous. If that's the path you're going down, it doesn't lead anywhere useful.
 
M

Mr.Squirrel

Tom
I need to read more sales-age threads. The meltdowns are full of lulz

This thread is kinda boring w/o warlox though, hopefully another troll/fanboy takes up his cause.
 
D

donny2112

Member
By the way, can someone with more time on their hands than me, at the moment, use these two graphs to estimate a 1st-party only sales graph for the first 19 months in the U.S.?
 
S

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
The total Wii attach rate I just read somewhere here on GAF someone calculated it to be 7.53. If you still want to be a skeptic about Wii's 3rd party sales may I direct you towards the weekly Europe charts. It's only going to get better for wii not worse.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
donny2112 said:
No it doesn't. Costs are not equal, and the marginal increase in total sales do not overcome that. Total third-party revenue on PS360 in the U.S. is higher, but I do not believe that profits (if there is profit when you total all third-party PS360 games) are.
Click to expand...

Great point. That side of the argument would suggest that possibly the first wave of those titles would have significant development costs, but it would also create reusable assets from which to minimize costs for both sequels and spinoffs (see the Assassin's Creed engine) and increase profitability.

The other side would suggest that perhaps it is better to start with profit than to try to reach it after a couple tries.
 
A

AIRic

Member
I know I sadly didn't made my part in helping 3rd party since I only own Nintendo games for my Wii... If I the DS wouldn't eat all my gaming money, I would gladly buy instead of renting some great third-party games.

I don't understand why most third-party games that made exclusive and innovative games for the mass-popular Wii don't get mainstream TV ads. Here in NB, we only saw ads for Nintendo games. For example, a game like Zack & Wiki would've profited from a mainstream exposure with a short TV spot.
 
D

donny2112

Member
PantherLotus said:
That side of the argument would suggest that possibly the first wave of those titles would have significant development costs, but it would also create reusable assets from which to minimize costs for both sequels and spinoffs (see the Assassin's Creed engine) and increase profitability.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. They've already invested a lot into those engines, so keep reusing them to bring the per game cost down. Meanwhile, it's time to play catch-up on the Wii. See EA's comments and Capcom's announcements.
 
B

B-Rad Lascelle

Banned
AIRic said:
I don't understand why most third-party games that made exclusive and innovative games for the mass-popular Wii don't get mainstream TV ads. Here in NB, we only saw ads for Nintendo games. For example, a game like Zack & Wiki would've profited from a mainstream exposure with a short TV spot.
Click to expand...
Zack & Wiki is the only 3rd party game that didn't sell on Wii.
Well, that and Okami.
Capcom should have released crap instead.
 
S

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
B-Rad Lascelle said:
Zack & Wiki is the only 3rd party game that didn't sell on Wii.
Well, that and Okami.
Capcom should have released crap instead.
Click to expand...
Wii owners like guns and zombies. We have made this very clear.
 
F

fresquito

Member
B-Rad Lascelle said:
Zack & Wiki is the only 3rd party game that didn't sell on Wii.
Well, that and Okami.
Capcom should have released crap instead.
Click to expand...
Well, not having sold is saying too much. Z&W had shipped figures of 300k at the beginning of 2008, and Okami has been reported to have sold similar numbers since it's been on sale. I don't know if anyone was anticipating any more than this from both titles.
 
P

Pachael

Member
poppabk said:
Superstars tennis, Sonic Riders. Their "mascot" IP's are almost worthless in the modern day (except in the UK).
Click to expand...

Or why I say that Mario & Sonic would have been useless without Mario - and the game itself, although selling bucketloads, skews the 3rd party numbers since it's Sega published/developed but it mostly uses the Mario brand for selling. Superstars Tennis shows that a 'Sonic' Olympics game would have bombed in comparison.
 
B

B-Rad Lascelle

Banned
Shaheed79 said:
Wii owners like guns and zombies. We have made this very clear.
Click to expand...
What happens to this formula when one adds chicks in bikinis?
Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers will deliver Mario & Sonic at the Olympics numbers for D3Publisher?
 
D

donny2112

Member
B-Rad Lascelle said:
What happens to this formula when one adds chicks in bikinis?
Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers will deliver Mario & Sonic at the Olympics numbers for D3Publisher?
Click to expand...

I'm stoked that D3 has decided to make their Simple Series Wii line available in the U.S. through WiiWare. It's one of the smartest moves I've seen a third-party company make in regards to the Wii (other than Dead Rising Wii and The Conduit) in a long time.
 
S

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
B-Rad Lascelle said:
What happens to this formula when one adds chicks in bikinis?
Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers will deliver Mario & Sonic at the Olympics numbers for D3Publisher?
Click to expand...
No we're pretty sexist.
 
O

Opiate

Member
PantherLotus said:
next-gen defense force:

"but if you combine the 360 and PS3 3rd party lines, many of which are direct ports, it clearly favors next gen in regards to sales potential."



And that argument STILL holds water.
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent with Donny, but I do think you have a point here too.

I think it shows how difficult it is -- and will continue to be -- to make a very different platform in gaming. I'm not talking about Nintendo here specifically now. If you have 3 or 4 different platforms, and A,B, and C are all very similar, and D takes a different course, the result is that A,B, and C will share multiplatform games and D has to go it alone.

It discourages differentiation.
 
D

DrGAKMAN

Banned
pete_townshend said:
Of course, the difference is that when the NDS went supernova it already had lots of good games, ranging from that most casual shit to the hardest of the hard core. It also had the promise of a constant stream of good games coming in the pipeline.

The Wii lineup, on the other hand, is pretty mediocre from a "real game gamer" perspective. Outside of the tent post Nintendo games, a few decent PS2 ports, and a couple other random 3rd party efforts, there isn't much to choose from. The 12-month forecast for new "hardcore" games on the system can only be described as poor.

When the current 5-week run on XBLA is better than the Wii lineup for the rest of 2008, there isn't a lot of incentive for the "eletists" to give in and buy one.
Click to expand...

Good points, yes...but NDS & Wii already are supernova...it's just that some people haven't snapped and accepted it yet in the Wii's case. Why? Because it is their *opinion* (and they being "core" gamers who were also in the minority on NES, SNES, PSX & PS2 before Wii) that makes them think that way. We can post list wars of systems A vs system B and really, it's more up to opinion over what games/systems are "better". And how do we define "better"...by it having better graphics, more online features, it being taken "seriously" by certain people, it being fun...or is it just simply sales? You can't define "better" 'cos people have different opinions of what's "good" or "bad" to them.

My point being that each time the "goalposts are being pushed back" NDS (and Wii will too eventually since NDS had a headstart on it afterall) surpassed those goals to the point where it was seen by most "core gamers" (except the unreasonable people who still hate it) as a "good" system despite it's casual, non-game, shovelware appeal...and notice THEN was the time that "serious" developers/publishers who normally didn't take Nintendo platforms seriously 'cos of the old (false) mantra of: "only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo systems" actually did take it on as the "lead" system in the market. And PSP & NDS co-exist happily, seperatly & independently of one another *despite* one being more successful than the other...it's not about winning, it's about maintaining profitability and having enough sales to sustain healthy support all around.

A perfect example of a "turn" from NDS being seen as a kidtendo system to a more serious "gamer" system was Ninja Gaiden on NDS (let alone the FF, DQ remakes and DQ9 on it) followed soon after by announcements of Guitar Hero, Spore & GTA also coming to the platform. Only Nintendo games were good on Nintendo systems changed to only Japanese games sell well, now soon it'll be everyone (Western game makers included) that will be selling well on it too thanks to *serious* support.

Eventually it'll happen for Wii too...and probably (not so coincidentally) around the time it becomes clear to "serious" game makers that Wii can be the most profitable system for them to make *serious* games for...it's already happening somewhat with Japanese game makers (MH Tri, DR, FF4, Tenchu4, etc.), maybe not to the degree as NDS, but it's happenning! Again, it's not about "winning" against the competing systems 'cos I'm not so blind to see that *they too* will continue to be viable platforms for game makers and gamers...that's not what I'm arguing...just saying that what has happened for NDS (it being seen as a good system for "gamers") will happen for Wii. Numbers don't lie!
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Opiate said:
Here is the Third-Parties-Only graph from Nintendo:

http://kotaku.com/5034951/heres-that-wii-third-party-sales-proof-you-requested

Can someone post just the graph please?
Click to expand...
Oh my gawd, the comments. please kill me:

"I never assumed 3rd party games didn't sell well, I just assumed they were shovelware" (bargaining)

"Nintendo wins in raw numbers? Really? Bullshit! Also, the sky is purple, water is dry, and dogs are cats. There's a reason we say "Attach Rate." Rate is a percentage per console, not a blob number. " (more denial)

"Wtf is this propaganda Without what games these are, this is useless. Yeah, Carnival Games sells like it's free on Wii. As does Raving Rabbids.Hm. What do these games have in common?" (Anger)


"On display are the first nineteen months of each console's lifecycle. That impressive upward tick on the blue line — the Wii line — starts its ascent right around the time that Guitar Hero III made its way to the Wii platform. Now who says third party games don't sell on the Wii? Oh, everyone who's not Activision? Well, zip it." (So GOOD 3rd party games don't count? And wasn't Guitar Hero III released on the other platforms?)

...

I just don't understand how people can turn around the 'games don't sell' argument to 'but all the games are crap' so quickly. If the games are crap, doesn't that make their sales even more remarkable?

And you can write off an up-tick in sales to the release of a less-gimped Wii version of a multi-platform game?

People believe what they want to believe.
 
K

KTallguy

Banned
D.Lo said:
I just don't understand how people can turn around the 'games don't sell' argument to 'but all the games are crap' so quickly. If the games are crap, doesn't that make their sales even more remarkable?
Click to expand...

No, it just displays that people have bad taste.
People buying a ton of crap is only something to be celebrated in sale age threads.

One man's trash is another man's treasure, but when you see Carnival Games outselling high budget, original efforts like Zack and Wiki, breaking out the champagne isn't want I feel like doing.

Just an opinion.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
KTallguy said:
One man's trash is another man's treasure, but when you see Carnival Games outselling high budget, original efforts like Zack and Wiki, breaking out the champagne isn't want I feel like doing.
Click to expand...
Wat

And the point is that even with just gimped PS2 ports and just a couple of small-budget worthwhile efforts, 3rd parties have sold more games on Wii then they did anywhere else. Imagine what they would have sold if they had put Bioshock-level effort in. At the very least the Wii deserves BETTER casual games from third parties.

It's like this massively undervalued stock that keeps smashing market expectations, but no big brokers invest in it because they convinced themselves three years ago it would crash.
 
D

Deku

Banned
oh brother, get off that high horse KT.

The faux indignance has nothing to do with games, and everything to do with the horse race of console wars.

3rd party software do well enough on the HD platforms, though I suppose not having the talking point of 'best 3rd party platform' or 'software beast' can rile up people likes you into posting such pious bullshit.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Can one not point to successes of game companies building a specific product and selling it to a specific audience and acknowledge it as good strategy?

The value judgments almost always come from fanboys defending their purchase. True Sales-Agers like to know who, what, when, where, and why. They believe that a careful study of trends can point to future business decisions, and they believe that study is a powerful tool and can be useful to the industry.

The lolz, imagined affronts, value judgements, "superior," good vs. bad "taste" and "getting upset" at bad games succeeding -- or good games failing -- are all second tier bullshit that belongs on page 1 of the NPD threads. Really base level trolling stuff not meant for real Sales-Age discussion. Juvenile stuff actually.

The good stuff comes from those of us that attempt to explain those questions above while attempting to put aside and ignoring those that engage in the petty fanboy wars. Numbers don't lie unless we try.
 
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