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Niitris · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
What is that supposed to mean? Can you explain to me what Tekken's reputation is with the masses because it will be very interesting to hear what you have to say.

I guess I had that one coming.

To keep it brief, difficulty curve (which isn't a big deal since every FG has difficult aspects), inaccessibility to compound the difficulty curve, and roster/moveset bloat.

A lot of it does have to do with people unwilling to learn for various reasons. Maybe I'm just baselessly going on about something that isn't for everyone anymore. :-/

Master Thespian · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
So you want to add proximity guard to a 3d fighter? You do realize that's the only way not to have movement like that bw broken right? Dude stop, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Please enlighten me on how execution barriers to basic movement are a good thing.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
Tekken 3 sold like 9 million copies, that is not what is stopping people from buying Tekken. It's not complicated & if you can't figure it oit you are either dumb or have ADHD.

Tekken 3 sales have nothing to do with how much and how well people understood Tekken. A lot of people have fun with fighters by button mashing.

Get someone who has never played video games before to control movement in a 3d game (like Dark Souls, Uncharted, whatever). I can tell you more than likely they will have a hard time at first. It takes an hour or two before you realize, oh wow, now I can do this. Or if you haven't tried Wii mote controls before with a shooter, play Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition. The controls will feel extremely awkward at first because you have no experience and then, after the first hour or so of gameplay, it becomes second nature.

Things are not instantly apparent in these cases even when the task is extremely simple and easy for most other people that have already been playing games since childhood. Also doesn't mean the person is dumb or has ADHD.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

Master Thespian said:
Please enlighten me on how execution barriers to basic movement are a good thing.

They took some steps to make movement easier in Tekken Revolution (from what I hear, since I don't play that game/don't remember much of what I played). I think they can make similar changes.

Your idea on having dashing and sidestepping have one concurrent input, though......I don't think I agree with that.

From what I understand, in games like Soul Calibur, you can tap d/f or u/f twice to do a forward dash and a sidestep at the same time.

For Tekken, however, I don't think I would want that. I definitely agree with you that changes can be made in some areas that can keep both hardcore and casual players happy. But maybe different changes from what you might have been suggesting.

Edit: I'm also half asleep and don't know what I'm typing/reading. I should stop now. haha.

Niitris · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
They took some steps to make movement easier in Tekken Revolution (from what I hear, since I don't play that game/don't remember much of what I played). I think they can make similar changes.

Your idea on having dashing and sidestepping have one concurrent input, though......I don't think I agree with that.

From what I understand, in games like Soul Calibur, you can tap d/f or u/f twice to do a forward dash and a sidestep at the same time.

For Tekken, however, I don't know if I would want that.

They removed BDCs and wavedashing (boo). Also made walking backwards faster although back dashing is still a better option.

Master Thespian · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
Your idea on having dashing and sidestepping have one concurrent input, though......I don't think I agree with that.

That's not what I'm suggesting. I just mean, that dashing forward and backward is ff/bb and sidestepping is dn/un. Walking is hold f/b, but ducking and jumping are hold d/u. It's unintuitive. But that's more of a quibble than a real concern. My real issue is that standard movement is so weak that bdc is a requirement for repeated movement in the same direction rather than just being useful to cancel one movement into a different movement. As you mentioned, Tekken Revo got the process started with better back walk and it hasn't hurt anything.

In Soulcalibur, 33/99/77/11 steps move into the space between the cardinal directions for positioning, but none of them have near the same level of evasion as 88/66/22/44 dashes.

Love Deterrence · Jul 27, 2014

I'm so bad about keeping up with the stories for these games. A conclusion to the Mishima saga would mean a conclusion to Kazuya's story, then? I'll look to catch up before Tekken 7 is released. In any event, hooray for manly tears!

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

Niitris said:
I guess I had that one coming.

To keep it brief, difficulty curve (which isn't a big deal since every FG has difficult aspects), inaccessibility to compound the difficulty curve, and roster/moveset bloat.

A lot of it does have to do with people unwilling to learn for various reasons. Maybe I'm just baselessly going on about something that isn't for everyone anymore. :-/

While Tekken's popularity has certainly dwindled over time, it has less to do with Tekken and more to do with the changing environment.

1. Addition of online.......i.e. people find out that they suck. lol. This was me when I first went online in Tekken 6.

2. Genre relevance........FPS games become the new big thing. Fighting games become more niche.

3. Console relevance........Tekken used to be the reason to buy a console during the PS1 and PS2 days. But with Sony's dominance in the console marketplace completely fading away in the PS3 days, Tekken also no doubt took a hit. Namco clearly had to make the choice to make Tekken multiplatform with the market realities and Tekken no longer was that must-have exclusive.

Among many other reasons.................

Look at TTT1. That was A LOT of characters. It doesn't have to do with roster bloat.

The tag tournament series are not canonical and are meant to be a celebration of everything before. Yes, there are a lot of characters in TTT2 but the entire top row of the character select screen is likely not going to be getting an appearance in Tekken 7.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

Master Thespian said:
That's not what I'm suggesting. I just mean, that dashing forward and backward is ff/bb and sidestepping is dn/un. Walking is hold f/b, but ducking and jumping are hold d/u. It's unintuitive. But that's more of a quibble than a real concern. My real issue is that standard movement is so weak that bdc is a requirement for repeated movement in the same direction rather than just being useful to cancel one movement into a different movement. As you mentioned, Tekken Revo got the process started with better back walk and it hasn't hurt anything.

In Soulcalibur, 33/99/77/11 steps move into the space between the cardinal directions for positioning, but none of them have near the same level of evasion as 88/66/22/44 dashes.

Ah okay, sorry, I misunderstood what you had mentioned earlier.

BDC requires practice to learn and I see where you're coming from.

I am conflicted honestly.

On the one hand, I really want there to be an easier setting for newcomers to quickly pick up and learn the game.

On the other hand, there are people that have invested time into learning things like BDC.

I just hope they find a good balance between these two camps for Tekken 7.

Edit: Sorry for all these double posts.

Deckard Cain · Jul 27, 2014

Leona Lewis said:
...Your tone seems very pointed right now.

It's plain to see that Tekken's lost any semblance of mainstream relevance. It hasn't evolved enough to keep the casuals interested, and it shows in the dated mechanics that are still stuck in the days before fighting game developers figured out how eight way run could fix the problem of three-dimensional movement on a two-dimensional display.

And Tekken 3 is over 15 years old.

Okay first of all as the,most hardcore Soul Calibur player ever don't bring up 8 way run like it's good, cause it's not. Calibur movement has sucked after SC2 & the removal of the mechanics that made things like 2G possible. Calibur hasn't been about movement since 2. Why are you implying that my favorite series which is now in the crapper is an example Tekken should follow?

And It's so clear? Tekken Sells more than pretty much every fighting game released recently. Sold more than BlazBlue, KOF, UMVC3 Killer Instinct, Soul Calibur, Persona, All the random SF updates. What about Tekken 6 being the #1 Japanese arcade game unchallangablw for nearly 2 straight years EVEN during the release of SF4.

Why is it that everytime a new fighting game gets announced the know nothing scrubs come out of the woodwork & start talking like they know anything about how these games work or should work? "Tekken should have 8 way run & therfore a block button " great idea.

Leona Lewis · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
Okay first of all as the,most hardcore Soul Calibur player ever

Stopped reading there.

You're obviously not interested in engaging with anyone's criticisms, and are instead piling on ad hominem attacks like an insecure girl in middle school.

~cheers

Master Thespian · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
Okay first of all as the,most hardcore Soul Calibur player ever

LOL, this guy.

Deckard Cain said:
don't bring up 8 way run like it's good, cause it's not. Calibur movement has sucked after SC2 & the removal of the mechanics that made things like 2G possible. Calibur hasn't been about movement since 2. Why are you implying that my favorite series which is now in the crapper is an example Tekken should follow?

8 Way Run isn't about evasion, it's about positioning and offensive moves and it still works as perfectly as ever. What you're referring to is the change in how step cancelling works (in addition to the removal of Avoid after SC2). Yes, step guard was removed after SC2, but you can still cancel step into other movements (until the patch in SC5, this is also included back step). Nevertheless, tell RTD or Lolo or KDZ that movement isn't worthwhile in SC. Show me a competent Nightmare player that thinks movement is an afterthought.

Deckard Cain said:
Why is it that everytime a new fighting game gets announced the know nothing scrubs come out of the woodwork & start talking like they know anything about how these games work or should work? "Tekken should have 8 way run & therfore a block button " great idea.

It's entirely possible to have 8 directional movement and still have back to block. For the record, 8 directional movement and 8 Way Run aren't even the same thing.

Niitris · Jul 27, 2014

Leona Lewis said:
Stopped reading there.

You're obviously not interested in engaging with anyone's criticisms, and are instead piling on ad hominem attacks like an insecure girl in middle school.

~cheers

Deckard doesn't pull his punches; gotta have your big boy gloves.

Technical jargon aside, it boils down to make Tekken an "easier game" or expand on what they already have. I think we know where everyone stands on this.

It can be pretty frustrating that people can't grasp the basic commands. Those will be the same people who move on to less tedious (and often worse) games, claiming that "it sucks, it's too hard, and not worth investing time in." Should Tekken change to cater that crowd, idk. Will they have to conform to some degree to get that crowd, most likely.

I do agree with the fragile egos aspect. Goes back to the point about migrating to other games (regardless of genre). Nothing can be done about that unless one decides to not play online.

U n i o n 0015 · Jul 27, 2014

LOL wow, quite possibly one of the worst trailers I've ever seen. This game takes itself a little too seriously...just show some dang gameplay.

Deckard Cain · Jul 27, 2014

Leona Lewis said:
Stopped reading there.

You're obviously not interested in engaging with anyone's criticisms, and are instead piling on ad hominem attacks like an insecure girl in middle school.

~cheers

Cause you have no counter argument cause you have no idea what you are talking about so go away.

BTW most of you should know the game you are looking for with simplified movement & such already exists. Here you go!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...UU4GrNJW2yASHn4DYCg&tbm=isch&ved=0CCUQMygBMAE

Leona Lewis · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
Cause you have no counter argument cause you have no idea what you are talking about so go away.

BTW most of you should know the game you are looking for with simplified movement & such already exists. Here you go!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...UU4GrNJW2yASHn4DYCg&tbm=isch&ved=0CCUQMygBMAE

Well, I can't say you're charming, but at least you're amusing.

<3

HeelPower · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:

Bottom gif is not good movement and will actually get you hit more often than not.

I'd argue that top gif is actually better movement when in close quarters because it will be easier to block in time if your opponent tries to bait a counter hit.

One of the hardest things about Tekken is moving safely whether you are approaching or moving away from the target.

Movement can also be situational in Tekken and dependent on the characters and types of moves the opponent is using.

Xinkwi-Xkuk · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
Ah okay, sorry, I misunderstood what you had mentioned earlier.

BDC requires practice to learn and I see where you're coming from.

I am conflicted honestly.

On the one hand, I really want there to be an easier setting for newcomers to quickly pick up and learn the game.

On the other hand, there are people that have invested time into learning things like BDC.

I just hope they find a good balance between these two camps for Tekken 7.

Edit: Sorry for all these double posts.

Easy solution. (At least to to say, perhaps not implement)

Give new players a fast awesome easy to use backlash. Yes like the one in TR revolution, but better.

And for players that take the extra time to learn Universal Backdash, then reward the extra skill by giving universal back-dash just a little extra space.

Just needs to be little more emphasized and I think it would be good.

Having your character run around a space easily and fast is hella fun!

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

HeelPower said:
Bottom gif is not good movement and will actually get you hit more often than not.

I'd argue that top gif is actually better movement when in close quarters because it will be easier to block in time if your opponent tries to bait a counter hit.

One of the hardest things about Tekken is moving safely whether you are approaching or moving away from the target.

Movement can also be situational in Tekken and dependent on the characters and types of moves the opponent is using.

Bottom gif is me randomly mashing on the d-pad if only to demonstrate the opposite of gif #1 (i.e. forward dashing, back dashing, sidestepping, etc).

Gif #1 is absolutely not good movement. Gif #1 is how you move if you want to get hit, lol.

You have to move according to how your opponent moves and act and react based on opponent actions and reactions. Gif #2 is just practice with the CPU standing and doing nothing so the movement is purposefully random and all over the place.

Xinkwi-Xkuk said:
Easy solution. (At least to to say, perhaps not implement)

Give new players a fast awesome easy to use backlash. Yes like the one in TR revolution, but better.

And for players that take the extra time to learn Universal Backdash, then reward the extra skill by giving universal back-dash just a little extra space.

Just needs to be little more emphasized and I think it would be good.

Having your character run around a space easily and fast is hella fun!

I'm not a game designer so I don't know. But it sounds good.

AAK · Jul 27, 2014

UltWarrior1 said:
Famistu Interview with Harada:

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...ause-it-was-too-difficult-learn-2-characters/

Looks like movement isn't the only thing they're making easier:

"Although in other fighting games, when you get knocked down, there is a certain period of invulnerability that allows you get back up on your feet simply, in the Tekken series it's not that easy. The mechanic is actually quite complex. But because of its complexity, that's what makes it really interesting and compelling to the core players, even though beginning players have a hard time with it. So we're currently taking some effort to review the wake-up system quite extensively. We'd like to get it to a point where it's easy for light users to grasp, but still satisfying for the core players."

Dang they're going even further than Tekken Revolution? Let's see what happens... I hope they don't take it toooo far.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

AAK said:
Looks like movement isn't the only thing they're making easier:

"Although in other fighting games, when you get knocked down, there is a certain period of invulnerability that allows you get back up on your feet simply, in the Tekken series it's not that easy. The mechanic is actually quite complex. But because of its complexity, that's what makes it really interesting and compelling to the core players, even though beginning players have a hard time with it. So we're currently taking some effort to review the wake-up system quite extensively. We'd like to get it to a point where it's easy for light users to grasp, but still satisfying for the core players."

Dang they're going even further than Tekken Revolution? Let's see what happens... I hope they don't take it toooo far.

AHHHHH. DAMN IT.

I am so conflicted right now.

I enjoy having a lot of get up options that fit different scenarios. Then, I also realize how revamping this system may be beneficial for easing in new players into the series.

There needs to be a balance. There needs to be a real good balance.

HeelPower · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
Gif #1 is absolutely not good movement. Gif #1 is how you move if you want to get hit, lol.

It actually is if you are in close quarters with your opponent.There is no window of vulnerability in this slow back dash and you can still evade stuff in certain situations.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

HeelPower said:
It actually is if you are in close quarters with your opponent.There is no window of vulnerability in this slow back dash and you can still evade stuff in certain situations.

That's the thing. Gif #1 doesn't have a back dash. It's a back walk....and it is extremely slow compared to back dashing and back dash cancelling.

HeelPower · Jul 27, 2014

Sayah said:
That's the thing. Gif #1 doesn't have a back dash. It's a back walk....and it is extremely slow compared to back dashing and back dash cancelling.

arguing semantics.

Anyway, if you are hit with some moves at their tip range simply holding back will allow you to slowly inch back while maintaining your block.

A useful situation would something like people mashing Anna's df+4 in succession.

holding back is not entirely useless at some situations.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

HeelPower said:
arguing semantics.

Anyway, if you are hit with some moves at their tip range simply holding back will allow you to slowly inch back while maintaining your block.

A useful situation would something like people mashing Anna's df+4 in succession.

holding back is not entirely useless at some situations.

Okay, the back walk is probably useful in some situation, maybe, I guess. I never use it but props to those who do. But, about the forward walk, that is not useful in any situation.

Sayad · Jul 27, 2014

U n i o n 0015 said:
LOL wow, quite possibly one of the worst trailers I've ever seen. This game takes itself a little too seriously...just show some dang gameplay.

Don't worry, soon you'll see a bear fighting a robo-school-girl in candy land. Harada can't even keep the Mishima storyline semi serious all the way through the game. We're still a long way off from a Tekken game taking itself too seriously.

Sayad · Jul 27, 2014

AAK said:
Looks like movement isn't the only thing they're making easier:

"So we're currently taking some effort to review the wake-up system quite extensively."

Dang they're going even further than Tekken Revolution? Let's see what happens... I hope they don't take it toooo far.

Nice to hear they're simplifying things, also, gameplay reveal mid September is too long of a wait.

Creaking · Jul 27, 2014

AAK said:
Looks like movement isn't the only thing they're making easier:

"Although in other fighting games, when you get knocked down, there is a certain period of invulnerability that allows you get back up on your feet simply, in the Tekken series it's not that easy. The mechanic is actually quite complex. But because of its complexity, that's what makes it really interesting and compelling to the core players, even though beginning players have a hard time with it. So we're currently taking some effort to review the wake-up system quite extensively. We'd like to get it to a point where it's easy for light users to grasp, but still satisfying for the core players."

Dang they're going even further than Tekken Revolution? Let's see what happens... I hope they don't take it toooo far.

I think that explaining the wake-up system within the actual game itself would be enough. Newbies don't want to go digging around online for instructions on how to do universal wakeup moves. Glad they aren't going to go invincible though. That sort of thing always messes with the pace in other fighting games, at least for me.

Sayad · Jul 27, 2014

HeelPower said:
arguing semantics.

Anyway, if you are hit with some moves at their tip range simply holding back will allow you to slowly inch back while maintaining your block.

A useful situation would something like people mashing Anna's df+4 in succession.

holding back is not entirely useless at some situations.

Aren't the only frames of vulnerability in a back dash are the few frames between the first 'back' motion and the second? You can block during the back dash animation, so if you back dash and keep holding back, it's as safe as walking backward, just faster.

Floex · Jul 27, 2014

Where do they get these voice over artists?

How is anyone paying them money?

ShadyJ · Jul 27, 2014

Gameplay when?

Harada-san pls

Sephiroth_GR_ · Jul 27, 2014

ShadyJ said:
Gameplay when?

Harada-san pls

Perhaps TGS since it will release for the arcades first and they are still a thing in Japan and Korea

Dereck · Jul 27, 2014

Sayad said:
gameplay reveal mid September

Who said that?

Rhazer Fusion · Jul 27, 2014

Leona Lewis said:
...Your tone seems very pointed right now.

It's plain to see that Tekken's lost any semblance of mainstream relevance. It hasn't evolved enough to keep the casuals interested, and it shows in the dated mechanics that are still stuck in the days before fighting game developers figured out how eight way run could fix the problem of three-dimensional movement on a two-dimensional display.

And Tekken 3 is over 15 years old.

Actually, Tekken has lost popularity with the mainstream imo more because fighting games are considered more niche now. Tekken 3 was when the genre was basically at it's pinnacle. It's generally all about the shooters and sports now. Yeah, maybe Tekken hasn't quite evolved like it should, but it isn't like the popular annual sequels that so many gamers are yearning for reinvent the wheel every time they come out either.

Also, Tekken can be admittedly difficult to learn, especially if you are not willing to commit ample time to it. That is one reason so many gamers tend to primarily migrate to the easier/cheesier characters. Most mainstream are not willing to invest dozens, if not hundreds of hours into a game just to become competent at it which can be understandable for gamers who want to jump in and have fun without a lot of commitment.

Yeah, the steep learning curve did frighten some former players away. I actually know some people who admitted it, but fighting games as a whole are generally not as popular as they used to be and I think that contributed to Tekken's position more than anything else. Hopefully, there will be a good balance for both new players and veterans in Tekken 7. Got to admit, it's going to be a near insurmountable task making everyone happy.

Sayad · Jul 27, 2014

boutdown said:
Who said that?

Harada said around(before or after) TGS, which is in the later half of September. I'm assuming it's gonna be gameplay, no point showing it again without any gameplay. Then again, there was no point in showing the teaser twice, yet here we are...

Famitsu: I see. Alright then, when is the next time we will hear an update on Tekken 7?
Harada: Probably just before or after Tokyo Game Show, is what we're looking at for now. That's about slightly more than a month away, but in the meantime do stay tuned to us on Facebook and Twitter.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...ause-it-was-too-difficult-learn-2-characters/

ZenTzen · Jul 27, 2014

Sayad said:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...ause-it-was-too-difficult-learn-2-characters/

Harada: 'We're trying to make Tekken 7 easy to approach, a lot of fans skipped over TTT2 because it was too difficult to learn 2 characters'

what Harada says here is pretty true, a good deal of friends skipped TTT2 because the tag game was completely unappealing to them

first and foremost the game as to be ps4/xbone gen only, and they need to push the systems graphically, people can go around throwing gameplay facts around, but graphics go a long way to appeal to the casual crowd, either way, speaking of mechanics, if harada can find a good middle ground to appeal to both, i can honestly say T7 can be a success

Sayad · Jul 27, 2014

Yea, one of my friends who I introduced to T6 around the time TTT2 was announced, was really excited for the game. But(two years later) when the game came out he couldn't get into it because learning two characters(plus the tag mechanics) at once was too much for an entry point(he only used Leo in T6).

Many of the free DLC clone characters were supposed to help people who only play one character, but that was a poor(and too late) attempt at fixing the problem.

Woody Invincible · Jul 27, 2014

WraithBringer said:
Instead of spending hours to master those ten hit combos, your task now is to keep them in the air and juggle them to death which to be honest is no fun.

Are you saying the 10-hit combos are fun? But complicated juggles are not? Any decent player would punish and bury your 10-hit combo bs. You probably played as Eddy back then and switched to Lili.

Xav · Jul 27, 2014

Deckard Cain said:
Okay first of all as the,most hardcore Soul Calibur player ever don't bring up 8 way run like it's good, cause it's not. Calibur movement has sucked after SC2 & the removal of the mechanics that made things like 2G possible. Calibur hasn't been about movement since 2. Why are you implying that my favorite series which is now in the crapper is an example Tekken should follow?

SoulCalibur is in the crapper?

I'll admit that SoulCalibur V was light on content but they absolutely nailed the graphics, soundtrack, gameplay and online. You know, the stuff that matters.

I find it quite hard to go back to SoulCalibur II after playing SoulCalibur V. Questionable guard impact using meter aside, I personally loved all the additions made to the gameplay.

Not a fan of SoulCalibur II movement. Everytime you sidestep, your character moves closer to the opponent rather than keep their distance, WTF?

Dereck · Jul 27, 2014

WraithBringer said:
it's gotten worse and worse

How?

Instead of spending hours to master those ten hit combos, your task now is to keep them in the air and juggle them to death which to be honest is no fun.

There is no task, you can do whatever you want. You can play Tekken and still do a bunch of ten hit combos.

That learning curve you mentioned used to be learning your combos in practise mode spending hours upon hours. Now it's literally learn the pop-ups and find what you can string for the longest juggle. Or see someone on YouTube do it and learn from them.

It does not take hours to learn 10 hit combos, they are simple, and they are easy to block/counter especially if there is more than one low in the combo.

Learning juggles or not learning juggles is up to you.

What I loved about Tekken was that it had this really cultured feel too it. Tekken 1 had the stage names of real places, these characters in the booklet were documented as to where they came from, their fighting style etc. That stopped at Tekken 3

Did it?

WraithBringer said:
I'll stick with Mortal Kombat I think.

If juggles is what is making you like Tekken less and less, then I've got bad news for you, MK has juggling, and lots of it.

MrCookiepants · Jul 27, 2014

I don't think fighting games will ever truly be mainstream again. At the centre of every fighting game is a gimmick--the key to their success. Once that gimmick runs its course it's all downhill from there.

Dead or Alive has boobs. Meh. You can find boobs in any old game these days.
Soulcalibur has WEAPONS OMG! *said nobody in the last decade*
Street Fighter has fireballs and Ultras. We'll see how long it takes people to get sick of those again.
Smash Bros has Nintendo fans. What else do they have to look forward to?
Mortal Kombat has Fatalities. Probably the greatest gimmick of all. Advancements in technology will keep this one going forever.

And then Tekken. You could mash buttons and watch Eddy breakdance. Or if you really wanted to impress your friends, you could memorize King's multi-throw commands. The series hasn't really moved forward from that, in the eyes of the casual at least.

They can make Tekken the easiest game ever. It will never reach those heights again. What they CAN do is make it really pretty. That'll get some casuals back on board (for a week or two).

Kain · Jul 27, 2014

MrCookiepants said:
I don't think fighting games will ever truly be mainstream again. At the centre of every fighting game is a gimmick--the key to their success. Once that gimmick runs its course it's all downhill from there.

Dead or Alive has boobs. Meh. You can find boobs in any old game these days.
Soulcalibur has WEAPONS OMG! *said nobody in the last decade*
Street Fighter has fireballs and Ultras. We'll see how long it takes people to get sick of those again.
Smash Bros has Nintendo fans. What else do they have to look forward to?
Mortal Kombat has Fatalities. Probably the greatest gimmick of all. Advancements in technology will keep this one going forever.

And then Tekken. You could mash buttons and watch Eddy breakdance. Or if you really wanted to impress your friends, you could memorize King's multi-throw commands. The series hasn't really moved forward from that, in the eyes of the casual at least.

They can make Tekken the easiest game ever. It will never reach those heights again. What they CAN do is make it really pretty. That'll get some casuals back on board (for a week or two).

I disagree with most of that. Except on the DoA bit because I really don't follow the series.

Fighting games are stronger than ever right now thanks to SF/Arcsys in Japan and NR studios in the West. Arcade scene may not be in the best place, but competitive online play is making the community grow. There are tournaments every week and EVO just keeps on growing every year.

Although I do think Namco has lost its touch, SC and Tekken are losing relevance with every passing year. I feel that they haven't been able to keep the interest in their franchises for whatever reason. Tekken 6 hurt the brand a LOT for example.

But I think they can recover if they play their cards right.

Ivan 3414 · Jul 27, 2014

MrCookiepants said:
I don't think fighting games will ever truly be mainstream again. At the centre of every fighting game is a gimmick--the key to their success. Once that gimmick runs its course it's all downhill from there.

Dead or Alive has boobs. Meh. You can find boobs in any old game these days.
Soulcalibur has WEAPONS OMG! *said nobody in the last decade*
Street Fighter has fireballs and Ultras. We'll see how long it takes people to get sick of those again.
Smash Bros has Nintendo fans. What else do they have to look forward to?
Mortal Kombat has Fatalities. Probably the greatest gimmick of all. Advancements in technology will keep this one going forever.

And then Tekken. You could mash buttons and watch Eddy breakdance. Or if you really wanted to impress your friends, you could memorize King's multi-throw commands. The series hasn't really moved forward from that, in the eyes of the casual at least.

They can make Tekken the easiest game ever. It will never reach those heights again. What they CAN do is make it really pretty. That'll get some casuals back on board (for a week or two).

I hope not too many people take this joke post seriously.

MrCookiepants · Jul 27, 2014

Kain said:
I disagree with most of that. Except on the DoA bit because I really don't follow the series.

Fighting games are stronger than ever right now thanks to SF/Arcsys in Japan and NR studios in the West. Arcade scene may not be in the best place, but competitive online play is making the community grow. There are tournaments every week and EVO just keeps on growing every year.

Although I do think Namco has lost its touch, SC and Tekken are losing relevance with every passing year. I feel that they haven't been able to keep the interest in their franchises for whatever reason. Tekken 6 hurt the brand a LOT for example.

But I think they can recover if they play their cards right.

Competitive and mainstream are not the same thing. Fighting games are nowhere near as popular as they were in the 90's, let alone the early 2000's. Back then, everybody was selling millions (even Virtua Fighter!).

I noted that some games, like Mortal Kombat, are still popular thanks to some really marketable gimmicks. But the core concept of beating the crap out of your friends is just not that compelling to today's gamers.

Sayah · Jul 27, 2014

WraithBringer said:
Instead of spending hours to master those ten hit combos, your task now is to keep them in the air and juggle them to death which to be honest is no fun.

WraithBringer said:
Instead of spending hours to master those ten hit combos

WraithBringer said:
master those ten hit combos

Are you serious?

Master ten-hit combos? lol

I would be fine if 10-hit combos didn't even exist and I'm generally against move list reduction.

Ten-hit combos add NOTHING to the depth and breadth of the gameplay in Tekken.

Cyber Caesar · Jul 27, 2014

MrCookiepants said:
I don't think fighting games will ever truly be mainstream again. At the centre of every fighting game is a gimmick--the key to their success. Once that gimmick runs its course it's all downhill from there.

Dead or Alive has boobs. Meh. You can find boobs in any old game these days.
Soulcalibur has WEAPONS OMG! *said nobody in the last decade*
Street Fighter has fireballs and Ultras. We'll see how long it takes people to get sick of those again.
Smash Bros has Nintendo fans. What else do they have to look forward to?
Mortal Kombat has Fatalities. Probably the greatest gimmick of all. Advancements in technology will keep this one going forever.

And then Tekken. You could mash buttons and watch Eddy breakdance. Or if you really wanted to impress your friends, you could memorize King's multi-throw commands. The series hasn't really moved forward from that, in the eyes of the casual at least.

They can make Tekken the easiest game ever. It will never reach those heights again. What they CAN do is make it really pretty. That'll get some casuals back on board (for a week or two).

Fighting games have been visually usurped by FPS and TPS now. They are the graphics kings. Fighting games have experienced a decline in integration of graphics tech.

Another thing, how many man hours does it take to produce Tekken vs Battlefield? It seems like it would take a lot less graphics tech to produce a fighting game. It seems like a whole lot less character and environment modeling. Fighting games were the graphics tech demos of the 90's. Now fighting games are trailing in graphics tech. The graphic have very little to do with the quality of your fighting games, but it matters to the casuals.

Maybe Nina should get a very high quality graphically intense 1 hour third person shooter campaign in Tekken 7. You could license it to a high profile studio like ND or Platinum. Remember Tekken 5 Devil Within. Maybe we need Nina "Sniper Within". Haha...

MrCookiepants · Jul 27, 2014

Slate Soda said:
I hope not too many people take this joke post seriously.

I am super srs.

Look at Virtua Fighter. That game has no gimmick and it's the deadest of them all. It's now been reduced to cameos in the boob simulator.

Now point out the lie?

Cyber Caesar said:
Fighting games have been visually usurped by FPS and TPS now. They are the graphics kings. Fighting games have experienced a decline in integration of graphics tech.

Another thing, how many man hours does it take to produce Tekken vs Battlefield? It seems like it would take a lot less graphics tech to produce a fighting game. It seems like a whole lot less character and environment modeling. Fighting games were the graphics tech demos of the 90's. Now fighting games are trailing in graphics tech. The graphic have very little to do with the quality of your fighting games, but it matters to the casuals.

Maybe Nina should get a very high quality graphically intense 1 hour third person shooter campaign in Tekken 7. You could license it to a high profile studio like ND or Platinum. Remember Tekken 5 Devil Within. Maybe we need Nina "Sniper Within". Haha...

Yes. If we had GAFers spamming screens and gifs of Tekken 7 in every thread, that could only help.

And honestly, that Nina/Platinum Games idea is not as bad as it first sounds...

Momentary · Jul 27, 2014

Posters like WraithBringer have me scratching my head.

I've been juggling in Tekken since Tekken 1. Every fighting game has combos... even Mortal Kombat. And that ahs eay crazier air juggles. What are people talking about with this whole Tekken losing it or some shit? I stopped reading this dude's post after seeing the "mastering 10 hit combos" crap. They could lose those "10-hit" combos. The last time I thought that was cool was Tekken 3. Then I played againstagainst good players in the arcade found out how useless that crap was.

Then even if your into the story... what the hell are people harping about? There have been kangaroos, ddinosaurs, and bears since Tekken 2. Where is all this crap coming from about the story getting strange or over the top?

Kain · Jul 27, 2014

MrCookiepants said:
Competitive and mainstream are not the same thing. Fighting games are nowhere near as popular as they were in the 90's, let alone the early 2000's. Back then, everybody was selling millions (even Virtua Fighter!).

I noted that some games, like Mortal Kombat, are still popular thanks to some really marketable gimmicks. But the core concept of beating the crap out of your friends is just not that compelling to today's gamers.

They were not popular pre-SFIV, but now I think they are in a pretty sweet spot. Just remember the hype surrounding MK9 for example, it was amazing.

MrCookiepants · Jul 27, 2014

Kain said:
They were not popular pre-SFIV, but now I think they are in a pretty sweet spot. Just remember the hype surrounding MK9 for example, it was amazing.

That was 3 years ago dude...

Literally every fighting game since then has been a flop. Does that sound like a healthy genre to you?

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