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All VR is Dead on Arrival
- Thread starter evilr
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gunslikewhoa
Member
Can't put people on ignore on mobile. 
Moon_frogger
Member
I don't really think that's how it works. I don't think VR is dead on arrival but when there is absolutely not even a trace of a 'killer app' you don't get to say things like this. If there was even one piece of software that wasn't some glorified tech demo I'd be far, far more excited for VR but as it is they don't even have their 'wii sports' equivalent. It really needs something. this kind of attitude of 'oh well, something will come eventually' is just bad for everybody. As it is we have already been hearing that the majority of VR tech will be for other applications besides gaming. This, in my opinion is not something gamers should be celebrating. it's a warning sign that nothing compelling is in the works. this isn't the holodeck from star trek.
mario_O
Member
About the form factor and release price complaints, here are some historical examples from other "dead on arrival" techncologies.
Mobile Phones:
Motorola DynaTac - $10.000 USD
Television:
RCA 630 - TS - $7.481 USD
Personal Computer:
Apple II - $4816 usd
Prices are adjusted.
I don't see the new iphones or Galaxies go down. Every year they cost the same 700+ dollars. New and better screens for VR (4K etc) will not go down anytime soon.
Are you always this wrong?
AR is a different future. AR is more minority report with annoying personalised ads popping up everywhere. But also cool stuff like watching a massive TV on the wall in your house without needing an actual TV (maybe my wife can use AR to add scatter cushions everywhere without me having to tolerate them in real life..)
VR is like the holodeck when you want to be in a fully artificial world.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
As strong as the pro VR community is here on gaf, I can't imagine what meaningful conversation OP wanted to start by being so outright negative about it. I'm indifferent to VR and even I just wanted to point out how incorrect all of their assumptions were.
Corronchilejano
Member
If you haven't tried VR yet it's because you're not even trying. There are many ways to get a decent VR experience nowadays even if owning VR hardware is cost prohibitive.
They've figured out ways to subsidize them now. Original iphones had people paying the 600+ for them, now mobile carriers subsidize them. Hell, kindles used to be 400, now they're 50 bucks. Why? Amazon knows it'll make the money back on the kindle storefront.
Same will happen for VR, if the VR storefronts make enough money for them to subsidize their own headsets. Oculus has its own store. Valve will sell VR games through steam. Sony will sell VR games over PSN. They can't subsidize the first set of headsets because there's no existing userbase for VR to tell if it's worth it. If enough people get VR and they're making bank off the storefronts, you will definitely see VR headsets go down even faster.
LukasTaves
Member
The price isn't even the biggest hurdle VR has to face imo. Even if it was cheap, it's still an horrible experience on current hardware.
I just don't write them off completely because of PSVR, ps4 has been incredible successful and it seems sony is pushing really hard to get the content there, if there's a way to VR succeed out of the gate PSVR definitely is that way.
I just don't write them off completely because of PSVR, ps4 has been incredible successful and it seems sony is pushing really hard to get the content there, if there's a way to VR succeed out of the gate PSVR definitely is that way.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
All I know is ive tried OR and i felt like a enormous berk with a box strapped to my face. That alone overrid any enjoyment I could get from the device.
I dont know if VR will be a success but like 3d before it, im personally not interested.
I dont know if VR will be a success but like 3d before it, im personally not interested.
CyberPunked
Member
Inflation. Do you think $600 10 years ago is worth $600 now?
Jonneh3003
Banned
Are any only possible or enhanced by VR? People can play those games on other cheaper platforms. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to play Alien Isolation in VR but is it $600 worth of cool? I prefer to just play my existing PS4 copy.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What does DOA mean to you in this context?
But you have much cheaper alternatives in the currently market. I posted first mass produced products released to market in their specific technology. Those are always bulky, not final foram factor and expensive.
Some people here are so pessimistic and short sighted. I bet most of the negative people saying its DOA didn't even tried any of the VR devices and have no desire to.
Some of you act like 600$ is the end of the world and it'll fail simply because of that. Didn't most of us were expecting a 500$ price range no later than two days ago? I still remember the thread about it. The price will eventually go down as parts and manufacturing costs go down. Just like any other techs stuff that touched the surface of the earth lmao.
The possibility of VR is much more than just a gaming gimmick and some of you still fail to see this.
I'm a believer and I won't even buy the first iteration of the OC or Vive. I'll make an informed and smart decision after both parties showed off what they can do and what stuff they have and then buy one.
Saying its DOA is ridiculous. Give it time
Some of you act like 600$ is the end of the world and it'll fail simply because of that. Didn't most of us were expecting a 500$ price range no later than two days ago? I still remember the thread about it. The price will eventually go down as parts and manufacturing costs go down. Just like any other techs stuff that touched the surface of the earth lmao.
The possibility of VR is much more than just a gaming gimmick and some of you still fail to see this.
I'm a believer and I won't even buy the first iteration of the OC or Vive. I'll make an informed and smart decision after both parties showed off what they can do and what stuff they have and then buy one.
Saying its DOA is ridiculous. Give it time
Moon_frogger
Member
this really has nothing to do with it. I love the wii remote. I am a fervent supporter of mobile gaming. My entire Ps4 library is digital and I own a lot of games. I've supported all kinds of tech that I new didn't have a snowballs chance of succeeding like the kinect and playstation move. still, those peripherals stood a far, far better chance of offering compelling gaming experiences and they failed miserably. utterly. even with solid software to support them. occulus rift is in a much, much worse position. yes, it will be adopted eventually. yes it will become a part of everyday life. for gaming though? show me something compelling. until there is something that isn't a tech demo or grafted onto existing games people need to take it down a notch. or not, doesn't bother me i suppose. I agree, it will be funny coming back to these threads in 5 years time but not for the reason vr supporters think.
lukeskymac
Member
GeordieMark
Member
I'd also add that shoehorning VR into existing games is probably not going to result in the best experience, or the best showcase for the technology, just as post-production 3D isn't a patch on movies produced in 3D. I think VR needs experiences specifically designed for VR to really demonstrate what it can bring to the table, rather than as a gimmick tacked on to games designed to played on a regular display.
Betta Lines
Member
This is one of the many reasons why the DK2 was not considered to be consumer-ready. Screen door effect is very obvious. The consumer headsets have eliminated this almost entirely with improved displays and optics.
It is a fundamental aspect of the technology - without this, the headsets would be completely unusable. This FAQ has been on the Oculus site since the DK1 days.
Future VR headsets will be capable of much higher brightness to match daylight levels. Each generation should move closer towards replicating comfortable, natural light.
The box will get smaller and more comfortable, to point where headsets are more like sunglasses. Many years before that happens, but the consumer Rift is already very light and comfortable.
VR will revolutionize several industries, but it's not ready for mass consumer appeal yet.
In a couple of years it'll get there, but not right now.
The real question is will VR be in every home like game consoles and TVs? Depends on how it affects the masses. A lot of people got sick from 3D TV and games so hopefully VR can overcome that hurdle.
In a couple of years it'll get there, but not right now.
The real question is will VR be in every home like game consoles and TVs? Depends on how it affects the masses. A lot of people got sick from 3D TV and games so hopefully VR can overcome that hurdle.
Moon_frogger
Member
and here lies the conundrum. there will be nonone to sell the software to in a years time because nobody is going to spend 600 dollars (not even mentioning pc upgrades) for tech with no games. so what we'll have is hardware with even worse adoption rate than any other gaming peripheral in history with no games outside of flight sims and racing. how is this not obvious to everybody? Also, the comparisions to cell phones and Television are hilariously shortsighted. those devices had obvious practical applications. they had a clearly defined use. I agree VR will probably have those too.....for non gaming purposes.
Could you elaborate on how those stood a better chance on offering compelling gameplay? I don't think that there was ever any game announced for Kinect that seemed more compelling to me as a core gamer than being able to play all kinds of genres with a controller (or optional Touch controller) as I can with VR...
March of the Crabs
Member
As others have mentioned in this thread, as long as it requires an expensive PC, VR, or just the Rift in particular, will NEVER be mainstream. Households of your average consumer don't have a PC anymore. They have a laptop or even just a tablet. It will be a super cool niche product that will never catch on.
Maybe GearVR or Sony's alternative will catch on do to requiring systems that people actually own, but who knows.
Maybe GearVR or Sony's alternative will catch on do to requiring systems that people actually own, but who knows.
mario_O
Member
Smartphones are also going up a little every year. The latest Galaxy S6 is 700 euros here. The S3 was cheaper when it launched. Same will happen with VR headsets, even more, because there's a lot of room for improvement in VR tech and that is going to cost. But of course we can always buy an older model like I can buy today an S3 for 150 euros.
Well, I don't think you could look at Battlezone, Pole Position or 3D Monster Maze and tell me that polygonal graphics didn't fix a problem that was holding back the experience.
VR's more of an enhancement on what we have now. It improves immersion massively, and gives a real sense of presence, but I don't think it "removes the shackles" on anything, so to speak.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I do know that if full priced PSVR games are only sold digitally I won't be buying, not with the current lack of consumer protection laws.
Not interested in buying VR for quite some time until the tech is very matured but boy are people fucking ignorant in this thread about new technologies.
also lol@people that"fear" total isolated immersion but can't even get usual immersion right. How are your experiences relevant when you can't game without talking to others, checking your smartphone etc
That is downright concern trolling
also lol@people that"fear" total isolated immersion but can't even get usual immersion right. How are your experiences relevant when you can't game without talking to others, checking your smartphone etc
That is downright concern trolling
Critics back in the 1930s when the first TV sets started appearing failed to see its practical application.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Bingo. This is a huge threat facing VR now IMO, at least for Oculus. Luckey made it very clear in the AMA yesterday that he and the company consider the pc the barrier to entry not the headset itself, completely brushing of the cost because 'well the other bit costs more' which is incredibly blind of them.
When asked about reducing cost he exclusively spoke about the cost of pc parts and mentioned how it's the cheaper part (rift) and made no mention of reducing costs on the device itself over time. I don't even think CV1 will see a price drop before CV2 at this point since clearly it isn't their concern.
Until that mindset changes this I cant see how this is going mainstream.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
It took 20 years for TV to reach mainstream adoption. I can see VR following similarly.
GeordieMark
Member
Or maybe people look for a different degree of immersion from their entertainment.
Don't start with the concern trolling bollocks.
SHAFT MASTER
Banned
You can't tell me how to think.
Your ps4 is powered by cheese, as a core gamer, you already know this.
How does that feel?
In 2000 years, when the last human wakes up from cryo sleep he will wonder where all the VR solutions are, only finding little mounds of white dust.
"So... where's Vive?"
"It's dead Dave".
"But, where's Rift?"
"It's dead Dave. They're all dead Dave".
"How about PSVR?"
"It's dead Dave."
"And Gear VR?"
"It's dead Dave. Everybody's dead Dave. They're All. Dead. Dave."
"So... where's Vive?"
"It's dead Dave".
"But, where's Rift?"
"It's dead Dave. They're all dead Dave".
"How about PSVR?"
"It's dead Dave."
"And Gear VR?"
"It's dead Dave. Everybody's dead Dave. They're All. Dead. Dave."
The clues are all there. All VR will be Dead on Arrival without Dead or Alive!!
Yup. Even if there's a VR crash in the next 3-5 years because it doesn't catch on doesn't mean it won't catch on later. It could very well remain an enthusiast thing for a decade or two before some killer app comes out that makes it practical for everyone. I honestly just see VR as the next TV, more than anything. Obviously it has shortcomings compared to TV (like not being able to sit on a couch and watch with someone else), but it has applications that extend beyond what is possible with a TV.
And hey, maybe i'm wrong, but unlike a lot of other failed tech out there, the use-case for VR was immediately apparent to me, even outside of immersive video games. Teleconferences, vacation simulations, profession training (simulated surgery, ex.), online classrooms, virtual chatrooms, flight simulation, etc etc etc.
OP entirely ignores all the consoles that were/are already in the hands of consumers and the fact the only "cost" involved is the price of the headset. Same goes for GEAR VR in which people already own the phones and the only expense is the $100 headset.
In a couple years the prices will drop by $100~200 and be a much smaller expense. Day one pricing is not targeting mass market, and expecting/assuming that is the wrong way to look at it. No new technology starts off with mass market right out the gate.
In a couple years the prices will drop by $100~200 and be a much smaller expense. Day one pricing is not targeting mass market, and expecting/assuming that is the wrong way to look at it. No new technology starts off with mass market right out the gate.
Shalashaska161
Member
It's the first generation of a new tech product, of course it's expensive and doesn't have a ton of support. It's like saying 4k HD TVs are dead on arrival because they're currently expensive.
It will take time for the tech to mature and prices to fall. And when that happens VR will be afforable and that's when the push for the mainstream will happen. These companies are in the for the long haul. The current products aren't where they are expecting to make their money, it's more about releasing a product and learning from it so that they can get it right once that mainstream potential exists. In a few years I'm betting VR stuff will be everywhere.
It will take time for the tech to mature and prices to fall. And when that happens VR will be afforable and that's when the push for the mainstream will happen. These companies are in the for the long haul. The current products aren't where they are expecting to make their money, it's more about releasing a product and learning from it so that they can get it right once that mainstream potential exists. In a few years I'm betting VR stuff will be everywhere.
More_Badass
Member
Weren't Blu-Ray players around $1,000 when they first hit the market? Now you can get one for less than $100About the form factor and release price complaints, here are some historical examples from other "dead on arrival" techncologies.
Mobile Phones:
Motorola DynaTac - $10.000 USD
Television:
RCA 630 - TS - $7.481 USD
Personal Computer:
Apple II - $4816 usd
Prices are adjusted.
Oppo
Member
hey, people bought 3DTVs and now are buying 4K TVs with virtually no content and a huge price hike.
I tend to think VR will be akin to how Surround Sound rolled out. You don't need it, but you can invest in it, and it increased in quality dramatically while decreasing in price over time, in tandem with regular stereo setups.
I tend to think VR will be akin to how Surround Sound rolled out. You don't need it, but you can invest in it, and it increased in quality dramatically while decreasing in price over time, in tandem with regular stereo setups.
GoldenCrow
Member
I don't know where people are getting this "ridiculously priced" thing from. Has anyone that states this even looked at the specs of the Rift?
Two OLED screens each at a resolution of 1080×1200 with a refresh rate of 90hz that uses low persistence and a global refresh technology automatically makes the device a more expensive than your usual device, then you bring in factors such as proper optics, anyone who is into photography or wears glasses knows how much decent quality lens cost, then you have the motion tracking technology again not cheap, then there is built in audio and the technology behind the 3d audio drivers. Finally you have the form factor and build of the Rift. Throw in an Xbox One controller a remote and two games and you are getting a pretty damn good deal for an emerging technology.
Anyone who has bought a decent television knows the cost and they don't even come close to having to do all the things the Rift does.
Two OLED screens each at a resolution of 1080×1200 with a refresh rate of 90hz that uses low persistence and a global refresh technology automatically makes the device a more expensive than your usual device, then you bring in factors such as proper optics, anyone who is into photography or wears glasses knows how much decent quality lens cost, then you have the motion tracking technology again not cheap, then there is built in audio and the technology behind the 3d audio drivers. Finally you have the form factor and build of the Rift. Throw in an Xbox One controller a remote and two games and you are getting a pretty damn good deal for an emerging technology.
Anyone who has bought a decent television knows the cost and they don't even come close to having to do all the things the Rift does.
