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plagiarize · Mar 10, 2009

if you are expecting an action game to be longer than 6 hours, i wonder what action games you've enjoyed. most action games that are great start to finish are 6 hours or less. most action games longer than 6 hours have sections that the game would be better without.

but really, you need to understand something. most people don't finish games and yet they still find them worth the asking price. six hours is plenty for a game where most people won't see it through until the end. that's not even touching on extra stuff like secrets, and ranks and high scores.

the subsection of gamers you're cutting out by putting out a 6 hour action game is very very limited because most people that like action games know what to expect from one.

it really just goes to show that the game has cross over appeal outside of the normal audience for these things i think.

Flachmatuch · Mar 10, 2009

Bullshit. Ninja Gaiden, the GoW games and all the DMCs are longer than 6 hours even if you take all the shitty parts away.

Fuu · Mar 10, 2009

Flachmatuch said:
Bullshit. Ninja Gaiden, the GoW games and all the DMCs are longer than 6 hours even if you take all the shitty parts away.

I don't know about Ninja Gaiden but you can finish the first God of War in around 3 or 4 hours. GoW2 in 5h if I recall correctly. DMC in 3 to 4 hours too, same for DMC3.

Speedruns go even lower than these, of course.

GDGF · Mar 10, 2009

Beat. Em. Up.

plagiarize · Mar 10, 2009

Flachmatuch said:
Bullshit. Ninja Gaiden, the GoW games and all the DMCs are longer than 6 hours even if you take all the shitty parts away.

i think you need to learn what this word means: most.

Dascu · Mar 10, 2009

You people have wasted more time arguing about the game's length than the game is actually long.

Think about that for a moment.

plagiarize · Mar 10, 2009

Dascu said:
You people have wasted more time arguing about the game's length than the game is actually long.

Think about that for a moment.

the game is less than five minutes long?

HOLY SHIT.

levious · Mar 10, 2009

Flachmatuch said:
Bullshit. Ninja Gaiden, the GoW games and all the DMCs are longer than 6 hours even if you take all the shitty parts away.

only if you get stuck.

AgentOtaku · Mar 10, 2009

We're still concerned over the length thing? ....jeesh
Killzone2 was a little over six hours for me on the first play through. Loved every minute of it and felt completely satisfied when I was done.
Same goes for Mirror's Edge.

zoukka · Mar 10, 2009

Vinterbird said:
I'm in the same boat as your friend. Once I see the credits, the game goes up on the shelf and I will never touch it again. Personally I feel that once i've played it to completion, there is no reason to do it all again.

Millionaire?

Splash Wave · Mar 10, 2009

I'd really like to get this game, but I have a feeling I'm going to get No More Heroes'd again.

morningbus · Mar 10, 2009

Jimmy Stav said:
I'd really like to get this game, but I have a feeling I'm going to get No More Heroes'd again.

I feel the exact same way. I can't wait for Amazon to ship my copy!

SabinFigaro · Mar 10, 2009

Fuu said:
Speedruns go even lower than these, of course.

Just to add onto this, Speed Demos Archive has these times listed:

- Devil May Cry for PlayStation 2 (0:58:27)
- Devil May Cry 3 for PlayStation 2 (2:14:34)
- Devil May Cry 4 for 360/PS3/PC (1:38:05)
- God of War for PlayStation 2 (2:16:23)
- God of War II for PlayStation 2 (3:07:25)
- Ninja Gaiden Black for Xbox (1:41:08)

Obviously, these speed runs are the result of a lot of time and dedication. But, then again, isn't that the point of action games: to perfect your technique? It probably took dozens of hours to prepare for these runs, and I'm sure MadWorld will be very similar. Shit, none of us have even played it yet, so let's save the bitching and moaning.

Edit: well, most of us haven't played it yet.

Fuu · Mar 10, 2009

^ Yup, I was being generous with the times (read: average player that doesn't totally suck). To me, good action games have always been short and satisfactory products that I feel like replaying from time to time because they're fun to play and mess around with.

Zachack · Mar 10, 2009

poppabk said:
It used to be that you would play the hell out of a game, trying to find hidden stuff, trying out new tactics, getting as good as you could at it. Now people treat SP games like movies - you play through to the end, see all the story and you are done - you played the game.

Ah, the Kirby Air Ride argument aka "make your own fun". Sorry, I'd just rather spend money on a new game rather than waste time trying to squeeze the remaining fun/experience out of a game which is usually not worth it.

Also, the concern about length partially stems from IGN (specifically the Nintendo crew but the others are historically guilty, too) wildly overestimating the time to completion on first playthrough. When IGN says "20 hours" it usually winds up being 11, and that's not rushing through a game but just playing normally.

Kintaro · Mar 10, 2009

poppabk said:
It used to be that you would play the hell out of a game, trying to find hidden stuff, trying out new tactics, getting as good as you could at it. Now people treat SP games like movies - you play through to the end, see all the story and you are done - you played the game.

It used to be that games like this, you would rent them (because like hell your parents are forking over that much money for a game all the time), finish them and turn the rental back in. Now if you do that, you're a heretic who doesn't support "the industry".

Ah, the good ol days.

sonicmj1 · Mar 10, 2009

Slathe said:
Madworld looks to be a pretty amazing game. I think it'd be a ton of fun to play. But when the question arises of "why didn't this game sell more copies", it's pretty easy to see that unless someone has money to drop on every good new game that comes out, they might find there's not enough play value for a full price purchase. Once you have to discriminate between which game you'd want to spend your money on at release, the amount of additional features becomes a bigger factor towards purchase, and it seems realistic enough to say a game I can't play fully with my friend when he's over, with my friend over an online server, and which I've seen the entire story in 4 hours may not have as much value as another equal quality game that I can get 10 - 12 hours out of the solo story, play with others to share the experience with them, or have different modes to completely change the gameplay experience.

Oh, come on. The game just released today, and you're already telling us why it didn't sell well? As if there has never been game with little more than a sub-10 hour singleplayer which sold well?

smh

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

jett · Mar 10, 2009

Fuu said:
I don't know about Ninja Gaiden but you can finish the first God of War in around 3 or 4 hours. GoW2 in 5h if I recall correctly. DMC in 3 to 4 hours too, same for DMC3.

Speedruns go even lower than these, of course.

WTF is this? First time through, GOW1 is a 8 hour game, GOW2 is around 14. DMC3 clocked around 20 hours for me.

Volcynika · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

So length and console factor into how much a game should cost?

SnakeXs · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

DeaconKnowledge · Mar 10, 2009

I'm calling it right now.

Fuck the 5 hour length; what's gonna gimp this games sales is the art style. The Black and White is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Fuu · Mar 10, 2009

jett said:
WTF is this? First time through, GOW1 is a 8 hour game, GOW2 is around 14. DMC3 clocked around 20 hours for me.

Yup, for you. What I said is that you can finish those games in less time. Same goes for MadWorld, I can't say how many hours it will clock for me or for you.

There's no point in bitching about a game's lenght in a first playthrough without having played it.

ZealousD · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

herod · Mar 10, 2009

DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm calling it right now.

Fuck the 5 hour length; what's gonna gimp this games sales is the art style. The Black and White is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

for real, it's possibly the best migraine inducer I can think of.

markatisu · Mar 10, 2009

DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm calling it right now.

Fuck the 5 hour length; what's gonna gimp this games sales is the art style. The Black and White is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Launching it the same week as RE5 is going to hurt it more

The art style became less of an issue after more people saw the videos, I have not yet heard one person who has played it say the art style of black and white was a bad or weird thing, it looks fantastic in the commercials and the black and white kept the censors from bitching and moaning about it

Creamium · Mar 10, 2009

short games are awesome

Jag22 said:
with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

Eteric Rice · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
with a 5 hour campaign, and the game running on the Wii.

It shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks, it really shouldn't.

By that logic Bioshock was never worth it.

beelzebozo · Mar 10, 2009

god hand + awesome art style + john dimaggio

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyeahhhhhhh

markatisu · Mar 10, 2009

Eteric Rice said:
By that logic Bioshock was never worth it.

It would also make 3/4 of all HD games not worth it, unless someone here can justify anything besides say MGS4 as a $59 game

the people complaining about price would probably not have even bought the game it was budget priced at $19-29

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

Eteric Rice said:
By that logic Bioshock was never worth it.

BioShock lasted 12 to 15 hours on your first play through.

Volcynika · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
BioShock lasted 12 to 15 hours on your first play through.

Regardless, your argument holds ZERO weight. Really. Attributing length and platform to decide price?

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

Volcynika said:
So length and console factor into how much a game should cost?

Yes, development cost my friend.

There's a reason most 360/PS3 games retail for $59.99, while PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Wii games retail/retailed for $49.99.

Slathe · Mar 10, 2009

sonicmj1 said:
Oh, come on. The game just released today, and you're already telling us why it didn't sell well? As if there has never been game with little more than a sub-10 hour singleplayer which sold well?

smh

Actually the thread already had speculations / fears that it might not sell well or would go the route of other similar games such as No More Heroes. I was just offering a perspective / reason on why that might be the case.

I have no clue whether it will sell or not. I hope it sells really well as I love the Wii and would love to see developers encouraged to make games beyond standard Wii-fare utilizing at least some of the systems unique features (and doing it well, at least according to the reviews, don't know if it's true from experience).

Volcynika · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
Yes, development cost my friend.

There's a reason most 360/PS3 games retail for $59.99, while PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Wii games retail/retailed for $49.99.

So you know how much MadWorld's development costs were?

GDGF · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
Yes, development cost my friend.

There's a reason most 360/PS3 games retail for $59.99, while PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Wii games retail/retailed for $49.99.

And Madworld retails for 49 bucks so there you go! Par for the course.

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

Volcynika said:
Regardless, your argument holds ZERO weight. Really. Attributing length and platform to decide price?

Yes, because Wii games have smaller development teams. The games feature less detailed visuals, they have less features, they are far cheaper to make.

ZealousD · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
Yes, development cost my friend.

There's a reason most 360/PS3 games retail for $59.99, while PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Wii games retail/retailed for $49.99.

Yes, and that's why MadWorld costs $49.99 instead of $59.99!

So why did you bring up platform again?

Volcynika · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
Yes, because Wii games have smaller development teams. The games feature less detailed visuals, they have less features, they are far cheaper to make.

Doesn't mean budgets for development, advertising, etc., are exponentially lower in the way you're talking about it. And like said above, it retails for $49.99, like MOST WII GAMES.

markatisu · Mar 10, 2009

Volcynika said:
Doesn't mean budgets for development, advertising, etc., are exponentially lower in the way you're talking about it.

All that matters is the graphics and power, you know advertising, publishing is free

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

Volcynika said:
So you know how much MadWorld's development costs were?

From what I've read about the game it's from a very small developer. So I'm just taking a guess on what I read, and what a game like No More Heroes cost to make.

GDGF said:
And Madworld retails for 49 bucks so there you go!

But it lasts 5 hours. I remember people were complaing about Braid on Xbox Live because it sold for $15 bucks and lasted 3 to 5 hours.

I guess it should be sold as a full priced retail Wii game. Maybe people wouldn't have complained then.

Volcynika · Mar 10, 2009

markatisu said:
All that matters is the graphics and power, you know advertising, publishing is free

Don't forget getting exclusive music tracks and announcers that are famous to play a part in it. Free!

Also, Heavenly Sword lasted around the same length, but I guess its ok to charge 60 on release because of the graphics, right?

A LOT of things go into how much a game will end up retailing for, don't just shoehorn it into "oh well weaker console and not that long"

jett · Mar 10, 2009

Fuu said:
Yup, for you. What I said is that you can finish those games in less time.

Not the first time through, especially not DMC3 in 3 hours. Just the cut-scenes would take up an hour of your time.

Sorry buddy, you should've used other games as examples.

Regarding Mad World itself, I don't think it really matters how long a game is...although 5 hours(coming from a nintendo fanboy pseudojourno that usually jacks up these kind of information) seems kind of on the low side.

GDGF · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
From what I've read about the game it's from a very small developer. So I'm just taking a guess on what I read, and what a game like No More Heroes cost to make.

But it lasts 5 hours. I remember people were complaing about Braid on Xbox Live because it sold for $15 bucks and lasted 3 to 5 hours.

I guess it should be sold as a full priced retail Wii game. Maybe people wouldn't have complained then.

:lol Something is wrong with you. I already did this yesterday. Not again.

markatisu · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
From what I've read about the game it's from a very small developer. So I'm just taking a guess on what I read, and what a game like No More Heroes cost to make.

I can promise you MadWorld took more to make than No More Heroes

Platinum Games is a much higher class (read costly) developer than Grasshopper

Not to mention the advertising budget its costing SEGA for MadWorld promotion is off the charts, especially for a Wii game

ZealousD · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
From what I've read about the game it's from a very small developer. So I'm just taking a guess on what I read, and what a game like No More Heroes cost to make.

MadWorld is being made by Platinum Games, which is comprised mostly of ex-Clover employees, including key members like Kamiya, Mikami, and Inaba. Their staff worked on games like Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix Wright, God Hand, and Okami. They are not a small developer.

But it lasts 5 hours. I remember people were complaing about Braid on Xbox Live because it sold for $15 bucks and lasted 3 to 5 hours.

I guess it should be sold as a full priced retail Wii game. Maybe people wouldn't have complained then.

People complained about Braid's price because it broke the standard for XBLA games. They were also dumb.

diffusionx · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
But it lasts 5 hours. I remember people were complaing about Braid on Xbox Live because it sold for $15 bucks and lasted 3 to 5 hours.

I guess it should be sold as a full priced retail Wii game. Maybe people wouldn't have complained then.

Complaining about price is stupid. Either a game is good, or its not. A game that is good at $20 is not more or less good at $40. It may not be worth it to you, the length may bother you, but it is what it is. You can't change it, you can only wait for a deal or a price drop. Cheaper games bomb all the time (N&B, VP2), there are other considerations.

Fuu · Mar 10, 2009

jett said:
Not the first time through, especially not DMC3 in 3 hours. Just the cut-scenes would take up an hour of your time.
Sorry buddy, you should've used other games as examples.

Regarding Mad World itself, I don't think it really matters how long a game is...although 5 hours(coming from a nintendo fanboy pseudojourno that usually jacks up these kind of information) seems kind of on the low side.

Well, I used the games Flachmatuch mentioned but yeah, I was wasn't counting cutscenes. Maybe MadWorld should have longer ones? :lol

DMC and GoW also have their shares of backtracking for puzzle solving purposes but as I've been on a semi media blackout for MadWorld I can't say for sure if those are present there or not.

Let's see how it will roll in the end. I just think people are overblowing the first playtime of action games in general and downplaying the value of MadWorld because of its (supposed) lenght. Even if isn't long, I have no problem with (good) short games and I'll surely clock many hours if it's as awesome as it seems (like I did with Mirror's Edge last year, another game panned by the short story mode).

jrricky · Mar 10, 2009

Jag22 said:
From what I've read about the game it's from a very small developer. So I'm just taking a guess on what I read, and what a game like No More Heroes cost to make.

But it lasts 5 hours. I remember people were complaing about Braid on Xbox Live because it sold for $15 bucks and lasted 3 to 5 hours.

I guess it should be sold as a full priced retail Wii game. Maybe people wouldn't have complained then.

Are you gonna buy Madworld?

Jag22 · Mar 10, 2009

ZealousD said:
MadWorld is being made by Platinum Games, which is comprised mostly of ex-Clover employees, including key members like Kamiya, Mikami, and Inaba. Their staff worked on games like Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Phoenix Wright, God Hand, and Okami. They are not a small developer.

People complained about Braid's price because it broke the standard for XBLA games. They were also dumb.

According to Wikipedia (not the best source of INFO). Platinum Games employees 85 people. If I'm not mistaken, the company is currently (Well, was anyway) working on 3 games.

If that's true, I can't see the Mad World team being any larger than 35 or so people. It's probably why the game is so short.

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