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CA Stay Winning: Asking Job Applicants for Salary History to be Illegal Jan 1st

N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
v1lla21 said:
Why do they need to know tbh if the job is in a different field/industry?
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depress wages, they can offer lower depending on your wage or not hire you if you’re gonna ask for too much. Win win for employer

they have more information than you (they know what they can afford and what they want to offer) and can gain the upper hand
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
markofhavoc said:
Maybe I don't understand, but aren't recruiters trying to get you hired and mske you more money? Wouldn't they need to know
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Your current/prior compensation is used to pay you the least amount possible for a role. So for instance if a salary band for a position is 80-110k, they very much want to pay you closer to 80 than 110. If you happen to make less than the band, they'll almost certainly offer you the bottom of the band. On the other hand, if you make a very high salary for the field it can be used to ensure you set a floor, or they won't waste your time with interviews for something that's out of their budget for the position.

I definitely got to the point where I simply refuse to disclose. Does it piss the recruiters off a bit? Sure. Ultimately they want to hire though.

This line is interesting:
An employer, upon reasonable request, shall provide the pay scale for a position to an applicant applying for employment.
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That can certainly help save some time.
 
D

disillusion386

Member
Yeah, this is great. Women and minorities will benefit from this due to the fact that they're already at a disadvantage for having lower wages, on average, for similar positions. Without disclosing salary history, they can actually request for competitive pay.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
My employer apparently uses salary history in the opposite way from most. They get suspicious when it looks like someone is just making a lateral move.
 
L

LaNaranja

Member
(c) An employer, upon reasonable request, shall provide the pay scale for a position to an applicant applying for employment.
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I have seen so many positions and companies that ask for your salary history but then also not tell you what the pay scale for their position is. This whole thing is fantastic.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
disillusion386 said:
Yeah, this is great. Women and minorities will benefit from this due to the fact that they're already at a disadvantage for having lower wages, on average, for similar positions. Without disclosing salary history, they can actually request for competitive pay.
Click to expand...

don't they lose a huge bargaining chip though because no one is stupid enough to disclose your actual wage...?
 
C

cwmartin

Member
(c) An employer, upon reasonable request, shall provide the pay scale for a position to an applicant applying for employment.
Click to expand...


As someone who works in the global HR industry, I can tell you there will be a huge drawback to this. Companies will basically just start listing the minimum salary they are required to list due to the law, and when the majority of them start doing this, you will have no real data on how much the job actually pays, or should pay, because every company just lists the minimum scale.

Overall, it is a good thing but that will be an initial drawback.
 
G

Gunblade47

Neo Member
Will this prevent them from asking for your current cost to company? Id imagine the benifits bit covers that but still unsure.

Regardless this is very good news and I would've almost been shocked that it was allowed in the US, If a company didnt ask me to provide my current cost to company. They just so happened to offer slightly more than the bs value I gave even when I knew that a graduate dev earns almost $1000pm more than that in their region and I wasn't applying for a graduate dev job either.

Shit is straight up predatory.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
SonicXtreme said:
don't they lose a huge bargaining chip though because no one is stupid enough to disclose your actual wage...?
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I think many (most?) disclose their actual earnings. Lying is a bad way to start a relationship, and depending on the field, role, company they can have a good idea of what you probably make. If you give some bullshit figure that doesn't make a lot of sense, that would be a red flag.
 
D

disillusion386

Member
SonicXtreme said:
don't they lose a huge bargaining chip though because no one is stupid enough to disclose your actual wage...?
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm naive, but I wouldn't lie about my actual wage. The hiring company can easily call your current employer and ask (I don't think there are any protections on that), you'd be caught in a lie.

cwmartin said:
As someone who works in the global HR industry, I can tell you there will be a huge drawback to this. Companies will basically just start listing the minimum salary they are required to list due to the law, and when the majority of them start doing this, you will have no real data on how much the job actually pays, or should pay, because every company just lists the minimum scale.

Overall, it is a good thing but that will be an initial drawback.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't that depress the salary ranges associated with positions to the point that companies won't be able to hire good candidates because said candidates want what they're actually worth? And in doing so, won't the companies be shooting themselves in the foot by not hiring the best people?

I'm not in HR so I'm genuinely asking.
 
C

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
cwmartin said:
As someone who works in the global HR industry, I can tell you there will be a huge drawback to this. Companies will basically just start listing the minimum salary they are required to list due to the law, and when the majority of them start doing this, you will have no real data on how much the job actually pays, or should pay, because every company just lists the minimum scale.

Overall, it is a good thing but that will be an initial drawback.
Click to expand...

A single figure is not a pay scale. People will see right through that bullshit. And since the requirement is to show the *scale* upon reasonable request, this could be considered illegal.
 
C

cwmartin

Member
Chmpocalypse said:
A single figure is not a pay scale. People will see right through that bullshit. And since the requirement is to show the *scale* upon reasonable request, this could be considered illegal.
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This is true, but I work with this data everyday. One major company will list the salary for a Marketing Analyst as $40,000 - $45,000 because they are required to, and are afraid to overpay their employees. All companies are required to do this and will look to the current listed salaries for Marketing Analysts and flock to the lowest data source they can find. This is already a requirement for the entire country Austria, and it essentially makes any aggregated salary data useless because every company lists the same tiny range for every job, and you have no true understanding of what company x pays for job title y.
 
R

RoboGeorgeForeman

Banned
Wish it was like that earlier this year. I had to settle for a lower salary at my current place as "no company would ever give an employee more than a 30% raise to start a new position".
 
A

anarchycupcake

Member
Very happy for this. Lots of applications I've submitted have asked this question. My current employer did, and they pretty much just matched the salary I was making at my previous job even though it was a totally different position.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
disillusion386 said:
Maybe I'm naive, but I wouldn't lie about my actual wage. The hiring company can easily call your current employer and ask (I don't think there are any protections on that), you'd be caught in a lie.
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why in the world would your current employer ever disclose your wages to a 3rd party? That's not a lie that's possible to catch so no one actually discloses their real salary to a new job, common sense...
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
I love this new law. Would have saved me low balling myself the last two jobs. This is very common for them to ask and give you some ultimatum in job description such as "candidates must disclose salary history/requirements to be considered for position". Fuck off. You want to low ball me. Cocksuckers.
 
A

Apdiddy

Member
Brazil said:
Every single time a thread about new worker protection laws in the US shows up I get absolutely shocked by the shit companies were able to get away with previously.

Truly a modern chaste system.
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What’s even worse is with states that have at-will employment (like Georgia), employers will not offer a job interview if you make more than the position offers or want more than you currently get. Then if you get in the position and they don’t like the slightest thing, they don’t have to give cause for letting you go.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
depress wages, they can offer lower depending on your wage or not hire you if you’re gonna ask for too much. Win win for employer

they have more information than you (they know what they can afford and what they want to offer) and can gain the upper hand
Click to expand...

Benchmarking is still a thing (blended salary rates for specific positions or levels of experience). HR departments share salary rates through these third party benchmarking firms. So they still figure out what the average position is paid.

Anyhow, good on CA for making this change. Although it will mean little long term.
 
D

disillusion386

Member
SonicXtreme said:
why in the world would your current employer ever disclose your wages to a 3rd party? That's not a lie that's possible to catch so no one actually discloses their real salary to a new job, common sense...
Click to expand...

I mean it's a reference check. The new employer can ask if the salary history I provided is accurate, and my current employer can simply say yes or no without actually giving a number. Again, I don't think there are any protections against prospective employers asking unless someone wants to correct me. Either way, I'd rather not risk getting caught in a lie and lose a job offer, but you do you.
 
A

A Grizzly Bear

Member
cwmartin said:
This is true, but I work with this data everyday. One major company will list the salary for a Marketing Analyst as $40,000 - $45,000 because they are required to, and are afraid to overpay their employees. All companies are required to do this and will look to the current listed salaries for Marketing Analysts and flock to the lowest data source they can find. This is already a requirement for the entire country Austria, and it essentially makes any aggregated salary data useless because every company lists the same tiny range for every job, and you have no true understanding of what company x pays for job title y.
Click to expand...

The law requires an employer to disclose the pay scale to an applicant who provides a reasonable request for it. The information is not required to be on the posting itself and I can't see a reason why an employer would do what you're saying. It's much easier for them to avoid providing any information and hope the applicant is oblivious to the law.

I have to say that using salary ranges on job postings in North America outside of public sector organizations isn't a good way to go about it. We always use local/national organizations to do it or personal contacts.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Been law in NYC for a year now. Maybe NYS? I don't know.

They can still get salary history after a background check, however, that is post offer.
 
J

Jeronimo Jones

Member
I like CA, and this is really good step for job seekers, but they ain't winning in cost of living and rental/mortgage prices which eat up your salary anyway.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Salary history?
I have a hard time remembering the entry salary for all the places where i was hired, the only important one is the current.
 
M

Meatfist

Member
Sweet! I fucking hate doing the salary song and dance for new jobs, because both sides know that whoever gives a number first essentially loses
 
M

muu

Member
Are we talking about employers asking for actual pay stubs to confirm income or something? I've been asked this numerous times, but a recruiter I worked with fairly early in my career taught me to inflate my numbers since that's what they're gonna go by. Wasn't like it was too far off either, since back then my base pay was about half of what I got after overtime and on-site work. None of the place I've been at required me to submit any actual stubs.
 
BarringGaffner

BarringGaffner

Member
Every interview in CA soon-
200w.gif
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
muu said:
Are we talking about employers asking for actual pay stubs to confirm income or something? I've been asked this numerous times, but a recruiter I worked with fairly early in my career taught me to inflate my numbers since that's what they're gonna go by. Wasn't like it was too far off either, since back then my base pay was about half of what I got after overtime and on-site work. None of the place I've been at required me to submit any actual stubs.
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No paystubs required. Merely entering a value online or verbally sharing it over the phone or an in person interview.
 
Z

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Businesses love to spout out MARKET PRICE until they are found out that they are shafting you on pay, then they just say "well you agreed to do it!"

Yadda yadda.
 
P

Punchy4486

Banned
I still have no idea what happened last year when I applied for my current job.

I made $40-45k, asked for "somewhere in the $50k range", and was offered $60k for a job (with $3k annual bonuses) that I wasn't directly experienced in but had 4 years experience in a related field.

That's a 50% pay bump. I can only imagine that that's their salary floor for the position, but if so then my coworkers are being overpaid.
 
T

therealist

Member
dallow_bg said:
Then you just tell how much you want to make.
At least that's how it should work.
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Doesn't this just allow businesses to lowball you even more? Without knowing my salary history they can just lowball me, eventually I will have to provide my current salary in order for them to get back up anyway. For most people moving to a new job is less about salary and more about work environment.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Sulik2 said:
If there is a way to screw employees, its legal in the USA. Basically every protection you take for granted in terms of worker rights in the UK and Europe does not exist in the USA. Whether its knowing your salary history so they can keep your payments as low as possible, no paid time off, fired for no cause, etc... Worker rights are a joke in this country.
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No wonder Americans are some of the most overworked in the world.
WaffleTaco said:
CA is Canada, please use Cali if you are going to reference the state.
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US_state_abbrev_map.png
 
J

Just_myles

Member
Good. That is a great thing. Companies are always trying to under pay people and it's annoying. If you even try to lie and they can confirm you lied you can be terminated.
 
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