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Illegal in Massachusetts: Asking Your Salary in a Job Interview

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entremet

Member
In a groundbreaking effort to close the wage gap between men and women, Massachusetts has become the first state to bar employers from asking about applicants’ salaries before offering them a job.

The new law will require hiring managers to state a compensation figure upfront — based on what an applicant’s worth is to the company, rather than on what he or she made in a previous position.

The bipartisan legislation, signed into law on Monday by Gov. Charlie Baker, a Republican, is being pushed as a model for other states, as the issue of men historically outearning women who do the same job has leapt onto the national political scene.

Nationally, there have been repeated efforts to strengthen equal pay laws — which are already on the books but tend to lack teeth — but none have succeeded so far. Hillary Clinton has tried to make equal pay a signature issue of her campaign, while Donald J. Trump’s daughter Ivanka praised her father for his actions on this issue when she spoke at the Republican National Convention.

By barring companies from asking prospective employees how much they earned at their last jobs, Massachusetts will ensure that the historically lower wages and salaries assigned to women and minorities do not follow them for their entire careers. Companies tend to set salaries for new hires using their previous pay as a base line.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/b...ap-massachusetts-law-salary-history.html?_r=0

I could see this harming employees more as employers will get their data from national averages, which hurts high cost of living states.

I was able to get five figure raises each time I jumped shipped, even with making my salary info provided to the employer.
 

BigDug13

Member
It's not like you as an applicant are not allowed to reveal your salary to them to let them know they need to "show you the money". They just can't ask legally.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
The present method, with applicants disclosing previous salaries and then negotiating a new salary, creates information asymmetry. They know what you expect AND they know what they can pay; you only know what you expect, not what they can pay. Market competition works better with information symmetry. The law should not ban asking for previous salaries, but it should compel employers to disclose current salaries of other employees at the firm so that the applicant can effectively negotiate. Employers who don't wish to do this must be scared of what a level negotiation looks like, which is evidence enough that they should be compelled to have one.
 
So, this covers them asking for previous W2's as well, right? I'd think that would be covered, but you never know for sure.

Also, this is a good step in movement towards equal pay for equal work.
 

entremet

Member
The present method, with applicants disclosing previous salaries and then negotiating a new salary, creates information asymmetry. They know what you expect AND they know what they can pay; you only know what you expect, not what they can pay. Market competition works better with information symmetry. The law should not ban asking for previous salaries, but it should compel employers to disclose current salaries of other employees at the firm so that the applicant can effectively negotiate. Employers who don't wish to do this must be scared of what a level negotiation looks like, which is evidence enough that they should be compelled to have one.

This is very reasonable.
 

NeonBlack

Member
So, this covers them asking for previous W2's as well, right? I'd think that would be covered, but you never know for sure.

Also, this is a good step in movement towards equal pay for equal work.

I've never had an employer ask for my w2. Is this really a thing?
 

nomster

Member
So, this covers them asking for previous W2's as well, right? I'd think that would be covered, but you never know for sure.

Also, this is a good step in movement towards equal pay for equal work.
Why would an employer need prior W2s? Don't think I've ever been asked that
 
Nothing stopping the potential employee from declining the inital offer, just attempting to prevent the company lowballing them.
 

SyNapSe

Member
Why would an employer need prior W2s? Don't think I've ever been asked that

Yeah, I've never heard of anything like this.. I've never given a future potential employer my current salary. I'll tell them what I want to make based on their job description and that it's potentially flexible depending on benefits.
 

Ashby

Member
Hmm, I don't know. I know plenty of people who got like a 50% hike in salary by exaggerating their old salary to a new job. In my experience discussion of prior salary has been a boon to prospective employees, not employers.
 
The present method, with applicants disclosing previous salaries and then negotiating a new salary, creates information asymmetry. They know what you expect AND they know what they can pay; you only know what you expect, not what they can pay. Market competition works better with information symmetry. The law should not ban asking for previous salaries, but it should compel employers to disclose current salaries of other employees at the firm so that the applicant can effectively negotiate. Employers who don't wish to do this must be scared of what a level negotiation looks like, which is evidence enough that they should be compelled to have one.

There would be no need for negotiating if you were outright told the salary of people in the same position. Negotiating is a result of information asymmetry. Not to mention that removes the potential employees ability to negotiate above their actual "value" because an employer can just look up the salary information of their previous place of employment as well
 
Hmm, I don't know. I know plenty of people who got like a 50% hike in salary by exaggerating their old salary to a new job. In my experience discussion of prior salary has been a boon to prospective employees, not employers.

Doesn't say you can't tell, it means they can't ask.

If you want to acquire good talent, it will prevent you from generally low-balling employees just because it's convenient.

There would be no need for negotiating if you were outright told the salary of people in the same position. Negotiating is a result of information asymmetry

You would still need to argue your relative worth to someone more or less experienced than yourself in the same position.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
There would be no need for negotiating if you were outright told the salary of people in the same position. Negotiating is a result of information asymmetry

If you are arguing for there being standardized salaries for a given position and no negotiation, who am I to stop you?
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
There would be no need for negotiating if you were outright told the salary of people in the same position. Negotiating is a result of information asymmetry

There is also the problem of companies just giving everyone a unique title as to not have a "direct" corollary to look at.
 

entremet

Member
Yup. At least it was...I haven't really searched for a different job in a few years, but back in the late 00's, I got it plenty.



Verifying your salary, for one.

I never heard of this. I wonder if this is a state thing. Some states forbid it and others don't.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Why would an employer need prior W2s? Don't think I've ever been asked that

Only reason I could think of would be in sales as a W2 would help verify if you were on commission and actually made your stated #s.

That being said I've never been asked, and I wouldn't give it over either.

Also I'm not in sales.
 

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
I think employers stating up front the salary ranges for a position is really useful. The top of the pay range might reflect someone with several years of experience in that exact position for instance.
 
Won't employers just end up giving lowball first offers?


Just show up to the interview in really expensive clothes, like $5,000 alligator skin shoes, a $10,000 suit, and a $19,000 Rolex. The interviewer will go "Whoa! I'm going to have to make this guy a really high offer. He must be really good if they're paying him that kind of money".

Seal the deal and let them know what's up by taking out a gold diamond studded lighter and asking if you can smoke one of your cubans in there.
 
Only reason I could think of would be in sales as a W2 would help verify if you were on commission and actually made your stated #s.

That being said I've never been asked, and I wouldn't give it over either.

Also I'm not in sales.

This actually frames things for me...I'm bizdev. I think it's more appropriate to rely on references, but this makes sense.

Still not keen to share any tax information with a prospective employer though.
 

Charlatan

Neo Member
I'm fortunate because I'm in software engineering, plus I have a security clearance, so I'm definitely in the driver's seat with resepect to getting jobs.

Therefore, whenever I'm in an interview and they ask what I'm making, I reply with the salary I want from them.

Because what I make is irrelevant. Plus, it's none of their business.

If the company doesn't like that, well, I don't need to work for them.
 

zma1013

Member
Just show up to the interview in really expensive clothes, like $5,000 alligator skin shoes, a $10,000 suit, and a $19,000 Rolex. The interviewer will go "Whoa! I'm going to have to make this guy a really high offer. He must be really good if they're paying him that kind of money".

Seal the deal and let them know what's up by taking out a gold diamond studded lighter and asking if you can smoke one of your cubans in there.

Then right after they say you're hired and you shake hands, tell them, "Thanks, I gotta run, I have to have this suit and jewelery back to the clothing rental store by 6, see you Monday."
 
Good.

The title was quite confusing though! I though you asking your employer about your salary has been banned; which didn't make any sense.
 

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
At first glance I thought the thread title meant it was illegal to ask what you'd make at the job you're interviewing for
 

entremet

Member
At first glance I thought the thread title meant it was illegal to ask what you'd make at the job you're interviewing for

It's a straight copy-paste from the website. But I do agree it's not worded that great. NYT is usually good about clear headlines.
 

El Topo

Member
At first glance I thought the thread title meant it was illegal to ask what you'd make at the job you're interviewing for

That would be downright insane.

"How much am I gonna earn?"
"You'll be surprised."
"Pleasantly?"
"That depends on you."
 

Tom Nook

Member
I guess that's fair, I get uncomfortable when asked "how much you make?"

Some people are willing to take a pay cut if there's an opportunity within the company to make even more money down the road.
 

Zoe

Member
Within the company, correct?

Yeah, you would have to be an idiot to do that lol.

No, externally. If you're applying for a job and not seeking a pay raise, it makes them wonder why.

(answer we usually get is commute)
 
The present method, with applicants disclosing previous salaries and then negotiating a new salary, creates information asymmetry. They know what you expect AND they know what they can pay; you only know what you expect, not what they can pay. Market competition works better with information symmetry. The law should not ban asking for previous salaries, but it should compel employers to disclose current salaries of other employees at the firm so that the applicant can effectively negotiate. Employers who don't wish to do this must be scared of what a level negotiation looks like, which is evidence enough that they should be compelled to have one.
Well said. I have few doubts, since these discrepancies are systemic in nature, that this is one of the biggest factors, myself.
 
I always hated not being given an offer or any idea whatsoever how much a job is looking to pay when I was job hunting.

You don't have to hire me, but I would like to know how much you plan to PAY people who are offered the job.

This way, I can know up front if you're just wasting my time or not.
 

aeolist

Banned
i always say that my current employment contract prevents me from disclosing my salary

it's been a lie every time but has worked ok
 
For me, who has a career recruiting top talent for Fortune 500 corporations, Asking a potential hire their current salary, keeps their expectations for their new salary in check and reasonable.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
Huh, nice. I was just reading recently about how important it was to not divulge your current salary anyway. You make them offer what they think you're worth, not what they think you'll accept.
 

Instro

Member
It's bizarre how companies are able to hide the ball on this kind of thing. If I apply for an internal position with my company, I am not allowed to find out the salary range or even the salary grade for the position. The only question we can get an answer to is whether or not our current salary is "competitive" with other people who have the same job title.
 
On the other hand if you're not invested in keeping people's pay as low as possible it's pretty nice.

For permanent positions, recruiting companies get paid a percentage of the hire's salary, which the recruiter then gets a percentage of. I would prefer my hire's get the highest salary possible, but it's all for naught if they don't get hired due to the high salary demand. So as a recruiter it's a balancing act to make the potential hire as desirable overall as possible. It all depends on how competitive the market is for a particular skillset. When you get a stud in a hard to find but in demand skillset, Companies are typically flexible and willing to pay and do whatever it takes to get that talent.
 

ColdPizza

Banned
When my current boss asked me (in NY) my previous salary I added at least 5k to it and then they bumped it up another 4%.
 

gwarm01

Member
i always say that my current employment contract prevents me from disclosing my salary

it's been a lie every time but has worked ok

Oh man, that is a good line and I might use that in the future.

I had interviews where my previous salary was asked when I lived in South Florida. I didn't care much for that, because my potential worth in a new organization should not be bound by my current pay. Besides, I am interviewing for a new position because I want more responsibilities and expect higher pay.
 

aeolist

Banned
For permanent positions, recruiting companies get paid a percentage of the hire's salary, which the recruiter then gets a percentage of. I would prefer my hire's get the highest salary possible, but it's all for naught if they don't get hired due to the high salary demand. So as a recruiter it's a balancing act to make the potential hire as desirable overall as possible. It all depends on how competitive the market is for a particular skillset. When you get a stud in a hard to find but in demand skillset, Companies are typically flexible and willing to pay and do whatever it takes to get that talent.

well since an offer has to come from the employer i don't really see how this makes your job more difficult, you present that to the candidate and they can accept, reject, or negotiate. the only difference having their previous salary makes is giving you the edge in negotiations, which is bullshit since employers have so much more power than employees overall.
 
The present method, with applicants disclosing previous salaries and then negotiating a new salary, creates information asymmetry. They know what you expect AND they know what they can pay; you only know what you expect, not what they can pay. Market competition works better with information symmetry. The law should not ban asking for previous salaries, but it should compel employers to disclose current salaries of other employees at the firm so that the applicant can effectively negotiate. Employers who don't wish to do this must be scared of what a level negotiation looks like, which is evidence enough that they should be compelled to have one.

This would be great but sadly I don't ever see this happening.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
For me, who has a career recruiting top talent for Fortune 500 corporations, Asking a potential hire their current salary, keeps their expectations for their new salary in check and reasonable.

Why can't you post a hiring range to manage salary expectations?
 
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