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Guild Wars 2 Press Beta [Prepurchase Is Live]

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Jira

Member
Alright, thanks a lot, that sounds awesome :) Like a "how's your home town like" feeling. One thing that's not really covered in the long article is gems/microtransactions. What are some of the things you can buy with it? What are gems? Can you buy this elusive "karma", (does anyone mind explaining that to me too, how it's different from just plain old gold or dungeon-tokens?) with it and then buy weapons/armor with that, or are the microtransactions purely cosmetic? I'm not a big fan of pay2win :p

Microstransactions are purely cosmetic or account services. To buy a microtransaction you have to first buy Gems. Gems can be purchased in one of two ways, first being real money and the second way is trade your in-game Gold for Gems using UI dedicated to just that and controlling prices through supply & demand. The community doesn't have direct control over the prices so they can't jack up the value of Gems just because they feel like it. So you can pay with your real money or the time you spend in game, the choice is yours.

Stuff you can buy with Gems are cosmetic, account services, or convenience items.

Things like:

- Character slots
- Bank space
- Pack of 3 random minipets
- 1 hour Karma boosts
- Costumes
- Name changes
- Transmutation stones

and so on.

Karma is only obtained through playing the game and completing Dynamic Events and cannot be traded to other players in any way.

Read this article on microtransactions

http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2

Pay2win doesn't exist in this game because nothing sold via Gems gives a player an advantage over another.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Here's the items from the cash shop leak (SUBJECT TO CHANGE):



In short, gems are bought with real money. Gems can then be traded openly on the marketplace for in-game gold. You cannot buy Karma with gems or gold. Karma is a reward for participating in Dynamic Events/completing renowned hearts (traditional quest like system).

I'd go into more detail, but I have a feeling in the time it took me to link all the cash shop images, Jira probably has a response 5x as long as mine ;)

Haha no he doesn't ;) But thanks, that was helpful :) So you can either buy these items with gems, or trade the gems for gold (and then buy armor/weapons with gold I guess, SOME pay2win can't be avoided I presume), right? And some special armor/weapons can only be purchased with either karma (from dynamic events/completing hearts) or dungeon-tokens (from doing exploration missions), right?

EDIT: Now he does! :D
 

Jira

Member
Here's the items from the cash shop leak (SUBJECT TO CHANGE):



In short, gems are bought with real money. Gems can then be traded openly on the marketplace for in-game gold. You cannot buy Karma with gems or gold. Karma is a reward for participating in Dynamic Events/completing renowned hearts (traditional quest like system).

I'd go into more detail, but I have a feeling in the time it took me to link all the cash shop images, Jira probably has a response 5x as long as mine ;)

The gems aren't traded via the market, they're traded via a UI element made specifically for it and so that the community can't dictate the prices at random, it's all based on supply & demand.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
The gems aren't traded via the market, they're traded via a UI element made specifically for it and so that the community can't dictate the prices at random, it's all based on supply & demand.

aaaah sounds good, sounds good. I love free market mechanics, make for some interesting possibilities. The more I read up on the game, the more excited I get. I guess I really AM lucky that I'm just jumping on the hype train now and didn't have to go through years of waiting... :p
 

PewPewK

Member
The gems aren't traded via the market, they're traded via a UI element made specifically for it and so that the community can't dictate the prices at random, it's all based on supply & demand.

Right, that's pretty much what I meant, but thanks for clearing that up.


I guess I really AM lucky that I'm just jumping on the hype train now and didn't have to go through years of waiting... :p

Tell me about it... I've been hyping for faaaaar too long :p
 

Jira

Member
Haha no he doesn't ;) But thanks, that was helpful :) So you can either buy these items with gems, or trade the gems for gold (and then buy armor/weapons with gold I guess, SOME pay2win can't be avoided I presume), right? And some special armor/weapons can only be purchased with either karma (from dynamic events/completing hearts) or dungeon-tokens (from doing exploration missions), right?

EDIT: Now he does! :D

Gold won't buy power for armor/weapons because every 5 levels in the game you can get the best stats on some general looking armor for a very small amount of gold and you'll have the best gear statistically right after you hit 80. It's the looks that people will strive for and so you can spend a ton of real money on gems and then trade for a bunch of gold if you want to, however, that fancy armor piece you just bought is no more powerful than the stats on a basic level 80 chest piece you can buy from a random vendor for a small amount of coin. You're paying for the looks, not the stats.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Gold won't buy power for armor/weapons because every 5 levels in the game you can get the best stats on some general looking armor for a very small amount of gold and you'll have the best gear statistically right after you hit 80. It's the looks that people will strive for and so you can spend a ton of real money on gems and then trade for a bunch of gold if you want to, however, that fancy armor piece you just bought is no more powerful than the stats on a basic level 80 chest piece you can buy from a random vendor for a small amount of coin. You're paying for the looks, not the stats.

That's perfect, exactly what I've wanted to hear. The only thing even remotely close to GW2 I've played was Vindictus (free game & free to play, it was fun), so I'm really looking forward to this. Never even touched WoW and never intended to. :p But now slowly but surely hopping on the GW2 hypetrain... Feelsgoodman.jpg Thanks for the answers :)
 

Jira

Member
That's perfect, exactly what I've wanted to hear. The only thing even remotely close to GW2 I've played was Vindictus (free game & free to play, it was fun), so I'm really looking forward to this. Never even touched WoW and never intended to. :p But now slowly but surely hopping on the GW2 hypetrain... Feelsgoodman.jpg Thanks for the answers :)

Sure thing. Vindictus is a good game, I just wish it had some randomization to the levels and mob spawns.
 

Dreavus

Member
Sure thing. Vindictus is a good game, I just wish it had some randomization to the levels and mob spawns.

It had a little bit of randomization IIRC, but the the best part of the game was the boss fights. Cinematic kills on gnoll after gnoll got tiresome. =(

I'm hoping GW2 doesn't pull any cosmetic punches when it comes to equipment and loot in favour of highlighting the gem store. I know in Dragon Nest (another free "actiony" game), pretty much all the armor you could find looked the same... even low level versus high level looked identical; the visual variety came in with the cash shop's avatar items.
 

Jira

Member
It had a little bit of randomization IIRC, but the the best part of the game was the boss fights. Cinematic kills on gnoll after gnoll got tiresome. =(

I'm hoping GW2 doesn't pull any cosmetic punches when it comes to equipment and loot in favour of highlighting the gem store. I know in Dragon Nest (another free "actiony" game), pretty much all the armor you could find looked the same... even low level versus high level looked identical; the visual variety came in with the cash shop's avatar items.

This is gear you can get out of the first dungeon's explorable mode (level 35). It not only glows at night, but the stats it has during the day are different than at night. For example during the day the sword might give you +10 health but at night it turns into a + 10 life leech. There's other weapons that are made of ice and can have a chance to freeze your target on hit or this clockwork weapons that collapse when you sheath them and then reassemble when you take your weapon out. The good thing is that you can literally buy every single item in the gem story with your in-game gold, you don't have to spend a dime past the initial box price if you don't want to.

Weapons_01_concept_art_%28ghastly_weapons%29.jpg
 

Retro

Member
Which district is the one that has all the Canthan type of housing?

The one with the giant gaping hole in it; http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Great_Collapse

Karma is a reward for participating in Dynamic Events/completing renowned hearts (traditional quest like system).

Renown Regions aren't like traditional questing at all. In fact, they're more like Dynamic Events but with multiple objectives that contribute to the end goal. For example, there's a Renown Region just outside Divinity's Reach where you're killing worms, watering crops and feeding cows. Might have been another objective in there too.

But, they definitely don't require you to interact with an NPC and they definitely don't function like traditional quests. In fact, the only thing in GW2 that does function that way would be the Personal Storyline.
 

Retro

Member
Edit: D'oh, double post. Meant to tack this onto the end of my first post. Sorry folks =(

This is gear you can get out of the first dungeon's explorable mode (level 35). It not only glows at night, but the stats it has during the day are different than at night. For example during the day the sword might give you +10 health but at night it turns into a + 10 life leech.

And in case anyone is curious:
Are they going to include a day/night cycle?

Yes. The cycle will be faster than real time. Events and monster spawning will change based on the time of day. Centaurs might attack a camp at dawn, and ghosts haunting an ancient battlefield might only be visible at night. Currently, the cycle lasts 2 hours with 80 minutes of day and 40 minutes of night, but this is subject to change before release. (source)

It's from a Q&A session, originally in french.
 

Jira

Member
The one with the giant gaping hole in it; http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Great_Collapse



Renown Regions aren't like traditional questing at all. In fact, they're more like Dynamic Events but with multiple objectives that contribute to the end goal. For example, there's a Renown Region just outside Divinity's Reach where you're killing worms, watering crops and feeding cows. Might have been another objective in there too.

But, they definitely don't require you to interact with an NPC and they definitely don't function like traditional quests. In fact, the only thing in GW2 that does function that way would be the Personal Storyline.

Right, and if a Dynamic Event is running in the same area as the Heart, anything you do in the DE will count towards your Heart meter.
 

Retro

Member
Right, and if a Dynamic Event is running in the same area as the Heart, anything you do in the DE will count towards your Heart meter.

Yep, everything encourages working with people.

And just to elaborate for the newer folks here, even the Personal Storyline quests, despite looking like traditional quests (find person with a starburst over their head, click them), they really are more like instanced, cinematic storylines rather than the usual quest-text blurb and a chore most MMOs throw at you. They actually tell a story with conversations, choices and outcomes (most visible in your home instance).

Kill 10 Rats has an in-depth look at one of the human storylines (some spoilers, obviously). As you read it, realize that all of the things he's talking about, despite sounding like they're taking place in a movie or book, are actually in-game and happening based on his choices; http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/03/29/gw2-a-in-depth-look-at-the-commoner-story-arc/
 
So, only playing a few hours of Guild Wars 1 (when I started getting interested in GW2 a few months back) on the free trial, I never really got a chance to play the PVP side of the game, just run around and explore and such, which leads to my question ... how was the balance in PVP? Were there certain classes that were much stronger? Does the paper/rock/scissors game play a large part of classes?

That's one thing I never really see in these podcasts or interviews, I guess it's hard to judge because it seems a majority of the videos are people that haven't had a lot of time with the game itself, but strictly speaking of GW1, how was the balance?
 

Retro

Member
Saw this on another forum,thought I would share for some of you that maybe never heard of this site,some nice little tips I didn't know...

http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/04/18/10-helpful-hints-for-the-guild-wars-2-beta-weekend-event/

EDIT: lol well I know Retro knows of this site ;)

Yep, I posted it yesterday afternoon, but it's a nice read so worth mentioning again.

And yeah, I think I mentioned KTR in both podcasts too. Before anyone asks, no I don't have anything to do with them (though if they asked...), I'm just a fan of their writing style and approach. They grasp game design concepts very easily and explain them in terms that people can understand, where most gaming blogs are clueless and sort of make up their own ineffective vocabulary that only further muddies the water.

So, only playing a few hours of Guild Wars 1 (when I started getting interested in GW2 a few months back) on the free trial, I never really got a chance to play the PVP side of the game, just run around and explore and such, which leads to my question ... how was the balance in PVP? Were there certain classes that were much stronger? Does the paper/rock/scissors game play a large part of classes?

Others will have better (and stronger) opinions on this, but PVP in GW1 was all about builds (thus, the moniker "Build Wars"). There was balance for brief moments, but for the most part it was people making team/character builds s to counter other team/character builds to counter other team/character builds. It shifted a lot, which in some ways made it more interesting, but in others more frustrating. I only played a little but I've read about it quite a bit. Lots of GW1 players in here, so they'll be able to give you a better idea.

Also, since we're on the subject of GW1 oldbies and build/theorycrafting, I noticed the other day that Gunbo13 was banned. It looks like somebody took a comment he jokingly made in a Manga thread to heart and it ended in a ban. Not sure how long it was for.
 

Jira

Member
So, only playing a few hours of Guild Wars 1 (when I started getting interested in GW2 a few months back) on the free trial, I never really got a chance to play the PVP side of the game, just run around and explore and such, which leads to my question ... how was the balance in PVP? Were there certain classes that were much stronger? Does the paper/rock/scissors game play a large part of classes?

That's one thing I never really see in these podcasts or interviews, I guess it's hard to judge because it seems a majority of the videos are people that haven't had a lot of time with the game itself, but strictly speaking of GW1, how was the balance?

From what I've heard/read, balancing was something ANet did extremely well in a lot of cases. If people figured out a way to create a stupidly powerful build, ANet would tweak stuff within a week. Thing is though with how the skill system was built, the community at times were capable of circumventing balance changes.

ANet is big on buffing skills rather than nerfing stuff into the ground. For GW2, they said they can make a single change for something and check how it affects over 100 skills within seconds. Also, it really helps that if needed they have PvP versions of all skills so there's no see saw PvE/PvP nerf crap.

As for balance of GW2. at this point most people playing really can't even handle the basic concepts of the game let alone think about the concept of balance or theorycrafting. The BWE should give you a better idea, however, 3 days isn't that much time to get an idea and we're probably 2-3 months from launch where they've been making balance changes and skill changes between every beta and that'll continue up till launch and beyond.

Outside of ANet, the only people that I'd listen to as far as balance goes currently is Sardu over at Necrobator.com
 

desverger

Member
So what's everyone's top three list of classes to try in the upcoming beta weekend?

Here's mine:
1. Guardian - They are definitely a very versatile class that seems to be able to do a lot and be helpful, and setting things on fire never gets old
2. Mesmer - I want to get a grasp of the mechanics and see how the playstyle fits me
3. Thief - I'm a little worried thieves might not have a lot of skills and weapons to choose from, so I have to see if it gets "old" fast.. still, bursting enemies down quickly is also quite a lot of fun for me
 
Thanks for the answers. The one thing I'm afraid of is having the one character I usually stick with turn out to be terrible on the field!

The different builds for professions and the different builds for teams is really going to make this hard to happen. Sure it is going to happen, but not too many are going to find their character completely useless.

Also PvP is also following the same philosiphy they are going with with PvE, they want you to play with others. It's not all about you being good on your own. So even if your build may not be great going alone, you can still be great with another build and profession.

So what's everyone's top three list of classes to try in the upcoming beta weekend?

Here's mine:
1. Guardian - They are definitely a very versatile class that seems to be able to do a lot and be helpful, and setting things on fire never gets old
2. Mesmer - I want to get a grasp of the mechanics and see how the playstyle fits me
3. Thief - I'm a little worried thieves might not have a lot of skills and weapons to choose from, so I have to see if it gets "old" fast.. still, bursting enemies down quickly is also quite a lot of fun for me

Mine are
1.Guardian, I just don't know much about the class and want to see how it plays.
2.Elementalist, Will most likely be my main when the game comes out so I want to play with builds a little and mostly do some pvp with it.
3.Thief/Ranger, I'm not sure what I'm going with in beta yet, Thief I am more interested in playing but I wanna try them both out.
 

Arksy

Member
I have heard things like Rangers are slightly OP and Engineers are in serious need of a buff but balance changes are inevitable in a PVP game.
 

Orayn

Member
I have heard things like Rangers are slightly OP and Engineers are in serious need of a buff but balance changes are inevitable in a PVP game.

Yeah, ANet still makes pretty frequent balance updates on the original Guild Wars, so I can see them doing it even more often for GW2. Singling out specific problems with a larger pool of players is also something they'll be able to do with the BWEs.

EDIT:
List-Wars-Age!

1. Engineer - I love technology and being a jack of all trades.
2. Elementalist - Nuking dudes is fun and I don't mind being a little squishy if I can dish out lots of damage at a range.
3. Guardian - Protecting people is a fun, straightforward, and highly rewarding role in combat. During my brief stint as a priest in WoW, I really liked this.
 
So what's everyone's top three list of classes to try in the upcoming beta weekend?

Here's mine:
1. Guardian - They are definitely a very versatile class that seems to be able to do a lot and be helpful, and setting things on fire never gets old
2. Mesmer - I want to get a grasp of the mechanics and see how the playstyle fits me
3. Thief - I'm a little worried thieves might not have a lot of skills and weapons to choose from, so I have to see if it gets "old" fast.. still, bursting enemies down quickly is also quite a lot of fun for me

For me:

1. Necromancer
2. Engineer
3. Ranger

I shall play heavy armor classes later on!
 

Guesong

Member
I just want to play the Engineer to be honest.

I have to confirm my suspicions of them being horrible before I can move on to another class.
 
The different builds for professions and the different builds for teams is really going to make this hard to happen. Sure it is going to happen, but not too many are going to find their character completely useless.

Also PvP is also following the same philosiphy they are going with with PvE, they want you to play with others. It's not all about you being good on your own. So even if your build may not be great going alone, you can still be great with another build and profession.



Mine are
1.Guardian, I just don't know much about the class and want to see how it plays.
2.Elementalist, Will most likely be my main when the game comes out so I want to play with builds a little and mostly do some pvp with it.
3.Thief/Ranger, I'm not sure what I'm going with in beta yet, Thief I am more interested in playing but I wanna try them both out.

Yeah, that makes sense.

For me I'm really interested in:

1. Guardian, I just like armor and melee
2. Probably a Theif - not sure though, I have never played the 'sneaking' class in a game but it seems like a lot of fun, being there really isn't "ganking" or resource nodes to fight over there might not be much to utilize my stealthing except to steal points in WvW and PVP
3. Elementalist or Engineer - something ranged is always my last choice as I've always leaned towards melee characters in all the MMO's I've played, same with RPG's up until Skyrim where they made the magic really enjoyable and able to wear the types of Armor I like. I just don't like wearing robes!

I usually steer clear of 'pet-type' classes.
 

Guesong

Member
Even if they are horrible i can't imagine them STAYING horrible for long.

By virtue of their concept and of some limitations imposed to them, I can. =/

I imagine, if they are terrible, that the first thing that should go is the 1-weapon limitation. Yes, they have kits. But from what I've seen, Bomb/Mine/Toolkit/Grenades are quite average at best, and downright near useless at worst. It's not like an Elementalist where each Attunement has its own distinct utility and feeling AND does not occupy a slot on their utility bar.
 

Dash27

Member
This has always done the trick for me; ArenaNet's MMO Manifesto

Chills. Every time. It's like someone was listening to me bitch endlessly in WoW Guild chat about how terrible MMO gameplay is.

Edit: God damn it though, that obnoxious Mintchip chick is a featured video. So obnoxious, "lol, I am a girl and I play games, tee-hee". Everyone remember the deluge of neck-down videos of girls giving their impressions of GW2 during the Media Event? Heh.



Unfortunately, Jira is incapable of love, since Jira is a cybernetic lifeform who exists only to disseminate GW2 information across the interwebs.

Agree on the manifesto. Normally I'd agree with the female imbecile spouting nonsense but if you can get past the first 35ish seconds of it she actually does a good job of giving reasons to check out the game. I might be biased because she focuses on the PvP a bit.
 

Dash27

Member
So what's everyone's top three list of classes to try in the upcoming beta weekend?

Here's mine:
1. Guardian - They are definitely a very versatile class that seems to be able to do a lot and be helpful, and setting things on fire never gets old
2. Mesmer - I want to get a grasp of the mechanics and see how the playstyle fits me
3. Thief - I'm a little worried thieves might not have a lot of skills and weapons to choose from, so I have to see if it gets "old" fast.. still, bursting enemies down quickly is also quite a lot of fun for me

1. Ranger - This is the only class I've been following in detail. Big concern here is the pet AI. We will see.

If I have time after the Ranger

2. Necro - Looks like a great class to have on your team.
3. Warrior - Straightforward on paper, I want to see how much depth it has and how easy or hard it is to master.
 
AND does not occupy a slot on their utility bar.

I think you hit it right there. I think if they are limited to one weapon they shouldn't also be limited less open utilities. The class would be more interesting if their kits were more used like attunements for Elementalists. Have them be the f1-f4 buttons and the weapon you use takes on a different effect, or something like this. I know their F keys are used for something, but can't remember what they were for.
 

Guesong

Member
I think you hit it right there. I think if they are limited to one weapon they shouldn't also be limited less open utilities. The class would be more interesting if their kits were more used like attunements for Elementalists. Have them be the f1-f4 buttons and the weapon you use takes on a different effect, or something like this. I know their F keys are used for something, but can't remember what they were for.

Your healing skill + utility skills all have a Toolbelt sub-skill that you can activate by pressing F1-F4. It's a different effect with different cooldown, essentially giving you 4 more spells.
 

Orayn

Member
By virtue of their concept and of some limitations imposed to them, I can. =/

I imagine, if they are terrible, that the first thing that should go is the 1-weapon limitation. Yes, they have kits. But from what I've seen, Bomb/Mine/Toolkit/Grenades are quite average at best, and downright near useless at worst. It's not like an Elementalist where each Attunement has its own distinct utility and feeling AND does not occupy a slot on their utility bar.

Engineers get those slots "refunded" with their tool belt, though. Their utility and healing skills each add an extra skill on F1-F4.
 
Your healing skill + utility skills all have a Toolbelt sub-skill that you can activate by pressing F1-F4. It's a different effect with different cooldown, essentially giving you 4 more spells.

Engineers get those slots "refunded" with their tool belt, though. Any utility skill that swaps out your weapons adds an extra skill on F1-F4.

Ahh, another class I haven't paid too much attention too I see...

I still think it would be cool if the kits worked more like attunements though. You have a weapon and then your weapons skills are changed by the different kits you wear. But I understand ANet wanting them to play differently.
 

Retro

Member
The one thing I'm afraid of is having the one character I usually stick with turn out to be terrible on the field!

Because ANet has abandoned the Tank/Healer/DPS model in favor of Control/Support/Damage, every class can (and must) perform each of those roles to varying degrees. While this sounds like it only affects PVE, it actually has a lot of impact on PVP as well.

For example, you can't 'tank' enemies in traditional MMOs because taunt/aggro is a silly, broken mechanic that only paper-thin AI responds to. But in GW2, control is all about manipulating enemy positioning and abilities. You can't 'tank' another player away from your cloth-wearing Elementalist friend, but you can fuck him upside the head with a big ass hammer and knock him away. Or the elementalist can switch to Wind Attunement and blow them away, or create a static field that stuns them. Or create a Lightning Hammer and knock them away.

And every class can do this. Even Thieves have some stuns and cripples, and even an AOE heal ("Shadow Refuge"). We've heard stories from the Press Beta of thieves coasting along behind big groups of players and picking them off one by one, or scouting locations in advance of an attack. So your concern of getting stuck with a profession that is incapable of working in the field can be laid to rest. Everyone will have some value in the game.

So what's everyone's top three list of classes to try in the upcoming beta weekend?

My wife works the first day of the test, so I'll probably spend the day switching between Warrior and Guardian to find which suits my preference. That's my big question mark right now, which one is going to give me the 'feel' I want. That way, when we play over the rest of the weekend, I can relax knowing I made my decision on which class I want at launch.

So that's the top two. My third will probably be an Engineer.

I have heard things like Rangers are slightly OP and Engineers are in serious need of a buff but balance changes are inevitable in a PVP game.

Yeah, Rangers are going to be nasty in PVP because they're evasive as hell (they can even stealth in emergencies) and can dump a lot of damage from a long distance. I can see batteries of Rangers being used to great effect in WvW to just saturate areas and lock them down. Elementalists will probably work the same way, but last I heard Ranger damage was kinda high.

Engineers are a complicated class, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're working as intended, but nobody has had the time to learn their nuance. I think they've said Engineers and Mesmers are the most complicated class. Elementalists are up there too, as I recall.


I think you hit it right there. I think if they are limited to one weapon they shouldn't also be limited less open utilities. The class would be more interesting if their kits were more used like attunements for Elementalists. Have them be the f1-f4 buttons and the weapon you use takes on a different effect, or something like this. I know their F keys are used for something, but can't remember what they were for.

Each Healing and Utility Skill has a corresponding "Toolbelt" skill. F1 is your Healing Toolbelt skill, F2 is your first Utility Toolbelt skill, etc. For example, if you have "Rocket Boots" (Fly backwards, damaging enemies with the exhaust) as your first Utility skill, then F2 becomes "Rocket Kick" (A kick that causes AOE Fire damage). If you've got Flamethrower (which when used, changes your entire weapon setup) as your second Utility, your F3 becomes "Incendiary Ammo" (Next three attacks cause burning).

Really, each of the Engineer "Kits" is like having a second weapon. And since you can have three of them in your utility slots (4 if you use the Medkit Healing skill), that actually gives you 4 weapons (5 with medkit) rather than 2. And there's a lot to chose from;

Flamethrower: Damage, but also a flame Wall (that blinds), a force pull, and a knockback.
Grenade Satchel: Lots of Condition infliction, but also a chill.
Bomb Satchel: Blind, Immobilize, Daze
Elixir Gun: A Condition remover, a cripple, and an AOE Heal.
Mine Kit: Drop up to 5 mines that you detonate on demand.
Tool kit: Knockback, a Bleed/cripple, a force pull and a shield.

Think of the Engineer as Batman; they've got a shitload of gadgets and tools to draw from, but no super powers to speak of. You get by on your wits and kits alone. That kind of playstyle is very appealing to a lot of people, including myself.

Seriously, play with it; http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en

I still think it would be cool if the kits worked more like attunements though. You have a weapon and then your weapons skills are changed by the different kits you wear.

That's exactly how the kits work, man.
 

Orayn

Member
Ahh, another class I haven't paid too much attention too I see...

I still think it would be cool if the kits worked more like attunements though. You have a weapon and then your weapons skills are changed by the different kits you wear. But I understand ANet wanting them to play differently.

Yeah, I'm actually intending to play Engineer as my main class, so I've put a fair amount of research into it.

The plan is to basically be Mega Man by picking swap-out skills for healing and all three utilities, with Elixir X as my elite. I don't care if it's poorly optimized; I'll transform into whatever the situation calls for, dammit!
 
Each Healing and Utility Skill has a corresponding "Toolbelt" skill. F1 is your Healing Toolbelt skill, F2 is your first Utility Toolbelt skill, etc. For example, if you have "Rocket Boots" (Fly backwards, damaging enemies with the exhaust) as your first Utility skill, then F2 becomes "Rocket Kick" (A kick that causes AOE Fire damage). If you've got Flamethrower (which when used, changes your entire weapon setup) as your second Utility, your F3 becomes "Incendiary Ammo" (Next three attacks cause burning).

Really, each of the Engineer "Kits" is like having a second weapon. And since you can have three of them in your utility slots (4 if you use the Medkit Healing skill), that actually gives you 4 weapons (5 with medkit) rather than 2. And there's a lot to chose from;

Flamethrower: Damage, but also a flame Wall (that blinds), a force pull, and a knockback.
Grenade Satchel: Lots of Condition infliction, but also a chill.
Bomb Satchel: Blind, Immobilize, Daze
Elixir Gun: A Condition remover, a cripple, and an AOE Heal.
Mine Kit: Drop up to 5 mines that you detonate on demand.
Tool kit: Knockback, a Bleed/cripple, a force pull and a shield.

Think of the Engineer as Batman; they've got a shitload of gadgets and tools to draw from, but no super powers to speak of. You get by on your wits and kits alone. That kind of playstyle is very appealing to a lot of people, including myself.

Seriously, play with it; http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en



That's exactly how the kits work, man.

:lol Ok, ignore my ignorance. I had only watched a couple videos after the first beta of the Engi and thought it had worked a little differently.

But after I read this, I don't see where their downfall is when it comes to the mechanics of the class? Regarding Guesong's comment, If they are a little under powered now I don't see how their mechanics and conecpt hold them back. If anything it just seems like a class that will take time in mastering the many different play styles and abilities and when to use them. More so than even elementalist. Where the Ele seems like you can focus on a couple attunements and use the others situationally it seems like you have have to have a more broad aproach when you play the Engineer. You can be more focused, but it may limit the class more than the Ele suffers.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
In theory.

In practice you want 1 Armed Kit at best in these utility skills.
Sure, I get that from an efficacy perspective, you want to specialize, - but theoretically you could carry a rifle, and have med kit, flamethrower/grenade/mine/bomb, tool, and elixir...

With the F skills (which look pretty cool, honestly) and an elite, that's 28 skills :O

And it's only 28 rather than 30 because Med Kit gives you multiple copies of drop bandages (wise).
Yeah, I'm actually intending to play Engineer as my main class, so I've put a fair amount of research into it.

The plan to basically be Mega Man by picking swap-out skills for healing and all three utilities, with Elixir X as my elite. I don't care if it's poorly optimized; I'll transform into whatever the situation calls for, dammit!
Indeed, you my dear Megaman will have 28 skills at your disposal.
:lol Ok, ignore my ignorance. I had only watched a couple videos after the first beta of the Engi and thought it had worked a little differently.

But after I read this, I don't see where their downfall is when it comes to the mechanics of the class? Regarding Guesong's comment, If they are a little under powered now I don't see how their mechanics and conecpt hold them back. If anything it just seems like a class that will take time in mastering the many different play styles and abilities and when to use them.
Yup. I had very little idea about the class before now but thanks to Retro linking this skill calculator and playing around with it, I am stunned at how much depth there is. It's still a class that just doesn't appeal to me personally, but I have a feeling it's going to end up one of the most versatile and effective when all is said and done, even if it requires the most thought and technique to play effectively.
 
Hmm

I guess I'll be doing (if time permits)

1. Necro
2. Ranger
3. Warrior/Mesmer

I want to try the classes I'm most interested first, that way during the next beta weekend when I'll have more time I can try the rest
 

BrettWeir

Member
No idea how Engi's are in upper levels, but they definitely seemed way under par vs. other classes in low level PvE. The turrets just didn't seem to do enough. Hopefully those get tweaked, along with other abilities.
 
It's going to take some time to learn all the classes properly. Even more so with mastering them, and PvP should give some experience of learning when to dodge and stuff.
 

Arksy

Member
I've heard complaints about the engineer's turret being underpowered. What if you forsake turrets completely for other skills? I saw a video (can't remember where) where this guy used an engineer with pistol and shield to great effect in pvp. (he was a charr with red armor IIRC).
 

Retro

Member
In theory.

In practice you want 1 Armed Kit at best in these utility skills.

Yep, there's a lot of overlap in some of them, and you really need some of the other Utility options. Still, it gives you lots of options for whatever your build is.

The plan to basically be Mega Man by picking swap-out skills for healing and all three utilities, with Elixir X as my elite. I don't care if it's poorly optimized; I'll transform into whatever the situation calls for, dammit!

Jack-of-all-Trades, master of none. Let's just hope it's viable. The utility alone seems like you'd do well, especially in a group setting.

But after I read this, I don't see where their downfall is when it comes to the mechanics of the class?

I think it's mostly a numbers thing, and Turrets seem really underpowered. I know you can pick them up and move them, but they still seem really underwhelming in all of the videos I've seen.

Would love it if the Turrets were like Halo though. Deploy one, then you can rip it off the tripod and carry it around as a weapon. Like... give me a Charr Engineer sauntering around the battlefield with a mini-gun.

And it's only 28 rather than 30 because Med Kit gives you multiple copies of drop bandages (wise).

Did you also consider that the Mine Kit just has 5 duplicate "Drop Mine" skills in that tally? Speaking of the Mine Kit, I can see that being dangerous in PVP. Go up to a capture point, drop 5 mines on it, stand back and use the F-button (Detonates all Mines at once) when somebody sets foot in it (assuming they're that brave).

The turrets just didn't seem to do enough. Hopefully those get tweaked, along with other abilities.

Yep, even the really cool ones like the Rocket Turret or the Net Turret were pretty mediocre. I noticed there was a lot of delay between shots and their AI wasn't exceptionally good at prioritizing targets. Hopefully they've been tweaked.
 

nataku

Member
As much as I want to try every profession during the BWE, I'll probably only get around to 4 at most, depending on how long it takes to get a feel for each one.

I'll probably go:
1. Guardian
2. Mesmer
3. Ranger
4. Elementalist

Then try the rest the next BWE. Hopefully the BWE starts fairly early Friday.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Man, Retro, thanks for linking up this skill calculator. I cannot believe how much variety there is between classes and within each class. On the one hand this would have blown my mind seeing it in game the first time, but I'd only get to see the available skills gradually and class by class. I have a feeling there's going to end up being substantially more depth here than people suspect.

Seriously, it feels like an enormous amount of thought was put into every class. I had no idea how much there was to Guardians before playing around with this thing.

Here's a question. On Warrior's 1 skill with a mace, it shows like this with two skills under it:
T3x9t.png


What does that mean?


Did you also consider that the Mine Kit just has 5 duplicate "Drop Mine" skills in that tally? Speaking of the Mine Kit, I can see that being dangerous in PVP. Go up to a capture point, drop 5 mines on it, stand back and use the F-button (Detonates all Mines at once) when somebody sets foot in it (assuming they're that brave).
Ah, my bad! So with mine kit in that set it'd be 24 rather than 28. But I was forgetting the potential for an elite skill that replaces your bar too. So if you happen to be a Charr and go with Charrzooka, rifle, med/flame/elixir/grenade, that's 34 skills in total. You're like a walking swiss army knife. :p
 
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