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Ys VIII delayed last-minute on PC

Actually I feel this could be the start of an new trend. Since people can refund nowadays, they are probably more iffy on releasing broken games and patching later.

In the long run this could be an good thing, if developers/publishers start to take things like this in account and work harder on fixing problems before releases. Though in short term things like this 24h heads up can occur.
 
I feel like that scenario is plausible but also highly unlikely. A problem (or set of problems) that will delay your deployment indefinitely rarely creep up on you at the last minute. They had to have seen it coming, at least a few days ago. You can call it bad project management but the cynical part of me thinks that they deliberately held off the delay announcement to get as many pre-orders as they could. I don't know how many people will actually refund a pre-order once they have committed to buying it.

Personally I'm wondering if maybe they weren't planning on releasing it anyways until someone had a change of heart at the last minute.
 

duckroll

Member
I feel like that scenario is plausible but also highly unlikely. A problem (or set of problems) that will delay your deployment indefinitely rarely creep up on you at the last minute. They had to have seen it coming, at least a few days ago. You can call it bad project management but the cynical part of me thinks that they deliberately held off the delay announcement to get as many pre-orders as they could. I don't know how many people will actually refund a pre-order once they have committed to buying it.

PC is digital only right? If they believed that they could fix it by this week, they would have held off until it was literally impossible to release it in a respectable state by the release date. Unfortunate, but it happens.

People should be less worried about conspiracy theories and more worried about the sign of what could be fundamentally a bad port.
 
XSeed really shouldn't be making fun of companies taking too long to release games...
That tweet's part of a series XSEED blasted just a few hours after this delay announcement, for a game which just released almost two weeks back and which XSEED pushed more than usual. I think too many perceive the store-link tweet as a jab when it's just coincidental wording.
 
Wasn't there a beta last week?

They probably found the issues within that time. They surely have had the game tested by themselves. But when it comes to PC with unlimited setup and possibilities, there bound to something that's not working as intended for some people. They clearly didn't have the time and resource to fix things up after receiving the beta feedbacks. It seems that the leaked rumor about the game not properly optimized (from the people who don't care about NDA) was true after all.
 

Ascheroth

Member
I feel like that scenario is plausible but also highly unlikely. A problem (or set of problems) that will delay your deployment indefinitely rarely creep up on you at the last minute. They had to have seen it coming, at least a few days ago. You can call it bad project management but the cynical part of me thinks that they deliberately held off the delay announcement to get as many pre-orders as they could. I don't know how many people will actually refund a pre-order once they have committed to buying it.
It's not really hard to believe.
They knew there were issues, but hoped they could fix everything before release by working crunch time.
It turned out the problems were bigger or harder to fix than expected, or a new issue popped up last minute.
It sucks, the beta should have started sooner, bad project planning, bad luck, etc. Things happen.
A delay is better than releasing an unfinished product. Short-term, fans will be pissed. Long-term, no one will remember the delay in a year if the actual release turns out to be good.
 
That tweet's part of a series XSEED blasted just a few hours after this delay announcement, for a game which just released almost two weeks back and which XSEED pushed more than usual. I think too many perceive the store-link tweet as a jab when it's just coincidental wording.

Dragoon's got the right of it. I've been pushing the Ys PC more since I started last week and this was the pre-patch fix set that I've had in my schedule from the get-go. I just provided links at the end like I always do when talking about a game. There was no jab intended, and timing-wise, all the tweets drop super early morn USA and afternoon/evening USA because I'm in Australia atm. :p
 

duckroll

Member
Doesn't bode well for whoever they contracted to port this. Problems sound systemic, and it seems almost like they implemented certain things without understanding how it would impact anything else. Complete opposite of how XSEED managed to handle CS1 on PC.
 

Zapages

Member
So 2 weeks to possibly fix issue 1 and 2 while unknown time for problem 3. Sigh, gonna just assume it'll be a mid-October launch.

I would think mid - November or December:

Here are some of my views:

Really wish, NISA would give discounts to for the folks who had pre-ordered the game and are willing to wait for the PC version. Other options could be to release DLC for everyone ie soundtrack and few other goodies for everyone who is willing wait.

PS: I double dipped in the PC verison and the PS4 CE version, but I am not openning the other one because I really like YS series.
 
Doesn't bode well for whoever they contracted to port this. Problems sound systemic, and it seems almost like they implemented certain things without understanding how it would impact anything else. Complete opposite of how XSEED managed to handle CS1 on PC.

Too bad there's only one Durante and that Durante is handling Cold Steel Part 2.
 

Blue-kun

Member
Man, I'm just so incredibly disappointed by all of this. It seems to get worse by the minute, too. It's kind of amazing that there are so many people who actually post in that Steam thread thanking NISA for their "good work", I think that's what makes it even harder to accept.

I'm really not a programmer nor do I work with anything of the sort, but I can't understand how someone can thank a company for what basically amounts to failing to meet their deadline and what was promised to buyers. If this had been announced as a PC port that was coming 2 months after the PS4/Vita versions, then, fine. But no. The catch was a simultaneous release on PC and consoles.

And then... this. The beta seems to have started like 2 weeks before the game came out, and it seems sort of unthinkable to me that a company would suddenly find "three very big issues" to take care of, or suddenly realize that, hey, this PC port we're doing actually doesn't run very well. From what I heard, it seems like it made relatively good machines crawl to a halt, and that definitely isn't something you need to wait until the very last second to maybe realize that announcing a delay in any sort of acceptable time frame is the safer and better option to take here. The fact they themselves say they "know the cause and estimate that it'll take 2 weeks to resolve" only makes it even worse in my eyes, because if it takes 2 weeks to resolve an issue, then how did anyone figure out that less than 2 weeks for a beta was enough time to iron out problems?

The whole project just seems to have been incredibly mismanaged from the start, and it's like the PC version was an afterthought. Like, I'm not going to not buy it, or say I'm going to pirate it or wait for a deep discount to get it, because I love Ys, I love Falcom and I want to play it as soon as possible. But there's nothing to be "thankful" for here. It's their job, they're running a company, and whatever NISA is doing sure as hell isn't something that only NISA can do. Publishers are plentiful around, and if they dropped the ball on a product I care, I sure as hell don't wish them anywhere near close to other IPs that I'm interested in in the future. I'll be supporting Ys, I'll be getting the game anyway, but I'll make sure to be as vocal as possible that the whole situation is a big show of sheer incompetence and lack of management AND communication, because if this in any way or form helps other publishers in the future get their shot at doing better, it'll have been worth it. There's no "thank you" for NISA here.
 
Doesn't bode well for whoever they contracted to port this. Problems sound systemic, and it seems almost like they implemented certain things without understanding how it would impact anything else. Complete opposite of how XSEED managed to handle CS1 on PC.
Somehow XSEED found one or two Japanese port teams to do solid work on Fate/Extella, Trails of Cold Steel (who did the basic port which Durante rehauled), and Ys Seven this summer. I doubt the Ys VIII port team can't deliver quality either, but the way NISA's managed this release is disappointing.

I posted in the stickied thread with compliments for the programmers since they have to deal with more than we'll ever know about the game's innards.
 

RPGam3r

Member
This whole thing just seems like a honest to god failure of project management.

Management most likely knew. Used the deadline as a form of "motivation" to get the team to get it done despite the odds.

This is common practice, its called Parkinson's law (or at least a common interpretation of it).
 
I honestly don't see them doing anything to compensate for the delay. Just hoping it wont be a November or God help us December release.

The game seems to have a decent amount of DLC on PS4 (and even more on Vita for some reason), granted most of it seems to just be items, but it wouldn't kill them to toss in some of that stuff for free.
 

duckroll

Member
Somehow XSEED found one or two Japanese port teams to do solid work on Fate/Extella, Trails of Cold Steel (who did the basic port which Durante rehauled), and Ys Seven this summer. I doubt the Ys VIII port team can't deliver quality either, but the way NISA's managed this release is disappointing.

I posted in the stickied thread with compliments for the programmers since they have to deal with more than we'll ever know about the game's innards.

Something to consider thought: Durante rewrote the entire renderer for CS1 because it was really inefficient originally. The games XSEED has worked on thus far are PSP/Vita/PS3 games. When porting to a modern PC there's a ton of overhead to work with even if the port is unoptimized or the original code is just shit.

Ys8 is a PS4 game. A PS4 game which Falcom themselves took a long time to complete, citing development struggles.

The real test will be how XSEED handles CS3 PC imo.
 

Blue-kun

Member
Something to consider thought: Durante rewrote the entire renderer for CS1 because it was really inefficient originally. The games XSEED has worked on thus far are PSP/Vita/PS3 games. When porting to a modern PC there's a ton of overhead to work with even if the port is unoptimized or the original code is just shit.

Ys8 is a PS4 game. A PS4 game which Falcom themselves took a long time to complete, citing development struggles.

The real test will be how XSEED handles CS3 PC imo.

He did say it was alright job for the PS3, though, right? It's just that for PC things could be done differently (and better), but he didn't seem to think the original code for the PS3 release itself was any bad, from what I recall reading.

And honest to good question, though, from someone who's absolutely clueless about programming -- wouldn't it being a PS4 game theoretically make it easier to port than a PS3 one? God knows one keeps hearing about similar architerctures to PC and what not, so I for one at least always imagined it'd be a smoother process than something that was made with the PS3 in mind, which was always known as a sort of crazy beast full of unique stuff to it.
 
The real test will be how XSEED handles CS3 PC imo.
Given the likely script size of CSIII PC (which should be huge if Falcom's made the most of their 3-year development period), XSEED would have extra time to prepare an optimized PC port with bells and whistles carried over from CS (II) PC thanks to Durante's involvement. It'll be a challenge, but a day-and-date console + PC launch seems viable and desirable for XSEED now. Major problem is potential audience for such a large but niche game...one more reason to get CS II PC out soon. PhyreEngine code also can run on PC natively, which is a big advantage over the in-house engine Falcom's hacked together over time for Ys games.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Well, it's unfortunate but it would be terrible for them publicity wise to release a PC port with full of issues. Although I guess it worked fine for SE and Nier Automata so who knows. Anyway, the biggest danger is that the game is getting pushed further and further into very busy fall season.

Personally, I don't think i will get to this till December at the earliest so I am fine with delays. Hopefully NISA has some sort of a marketing campaign for the delayed port.
 

Durante

Member
Doesn't bode well for whoever they contracted to port this. Problems sound systemic, and it seems almost like they implemented certain things without understanding how it would impact anything else. Complete opposite of how XSEED managed to handle CS1 on PC.
From the beta impressions I've heard, performance might be close to what CS1 looked like before I started working on it. (Of course that's just one of the problems -- e.g. the translation of CS1 was always very high quality as far as I can tell)

Anyway, CS1 performance issues took a complete change of the rendering backend and a few months to fix, so I'm a bit concerned about the proposed timeframe here (it might be based on similar planning which would have had the PC release happening yesterday).
 

Atolm

Member
Hopefully they won't complain when the PC sales are low, because at least on the Pro the game is 4k60fps already.
 

duckroll

Member
From the beta impressions I've heard, performance might be close to what CS1 looked like before I started working on it. (Of course that's just one of the problems -- e.g. the translation of CS1 was always very high quality as far as I can tell)

Anyway, CS1 performance issues took a complete change of the rendering backend and a few months to fix, so I'm a bit concerned about the proposed timeframe here (it might be based on similar planning which would have had the PC release happening yesterday).

What's of particular concern from what I've heard isn't so much the optimization of the performance, which you did wonders on in CS, but rather that some of the game simply does not work. Crash bugs, strange issues arising from there being multiple languages now, etc. Sounds bad.
 

Dec

Member
Well, it's unfortunate but it would be terrible for them publicity wise to release a PC port with full of issues.

Ya I think developers are going to be super safe with PC ports for a while after watching a few big releases go down in flames recently. It takes so long for word of mouth to come back around after the launch of a bad port.

To that end I fear that delayed PC releases might return in a lot of cases and day and date PC ports will suddenly become celebrated bullet points.
 

Durante

Member
Ya I think developers are going to be super safe with PC ports for a while after watching a few big releases go down in flames recently. It takes so long for word of mouth to come back around after the launch of a bad port.

To that end I fear that delayed PC releases might return in a lot of cases and day and date PC ports will suddenly become celebrated bullet points.
Alternatively, companies could just allocate a reasonable amount of time for a port and have an experienced team handle it. Ridiculous idea I know :p
 

Kuosi

Member
Sounds like it's time refund the PC version, wasn't planning on playing it at launch anyway but who knows how it'll work out once it actually launches, but hey there's always the plastic box version
 

Anoxida

Member
I mean if they say it takes about two weeks two fix 2/3 issues then yo, they fucking knew about it and held off telling us. I was on board with them thinking they could fix it by launch but not after this. Kinda rubs me the wrong way but if the port ends up being good then I'll still buy it.
 

preta

Member
What's of particular concern from what I've heard isn't so much the optimization of the performance, which you did wonders on in CS, but rather that some of the game simply does not work. Crash bugs, strange issues arising from there being multiple languages now, etc. Sounds bad.

It's said to have gotten better over time in this regard, but yes, the problems go well beyond just performance into the territory of stuff just being flat-out broken.
 

Dec

Member
Alternatively, companies could just allocate a reasonable amount of time for a port and have an experienced team handle it. Ridiculous idea I know :p

Ya that is what they should do. What I'm getting at is that the standard for a PC port is getting higher. Not even just from a customer perspective but from a publisher's.

I think a port like this one would have been released as is and fixed later even just a year ago.

I think Destiny 2 was probably in good shape to ship in September but Bungie has nothing to gain by compromising it in any way (no matter how minor), to meet that date.

I am just not super optimistic that what they should do is what many will do.
 
Man, that sounds pretty bad. Ys PC ports are generally kinda rough, but they're never completely broken. Hopefully the delay helps them iron it out. I'll definitely wait for reviews and impressions and if it's really that bad I'll just get the PS4 version
 

Eusis

Member
Some of the improvements could possibly be considered rough, but that's mainly just the widescreen and owing to the fact the assets weren't built for that, not in the PC versions anyway. Nevermind that what is done is remarkable for one person handling it.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
I wonder which studio is behind this port. After reading their post on the steam forum I don't have much confidence in them. Handling a PC port of a PS4 game from scratch seemed to be too much for NISA.
 
The game seems to have a decent amount of DLC on PS4 (and even more on Vita for some reason), granted most of it seems to just be items, but it wouldn't kill them to toss in some of that stuff for free.
Maybe, can't help but think they're telling people to get a refund cause they have no plans make up somehow for the delay.
 

Eusis

Member
I wonder which studio is behind this port. After reading their post on the steam forum I don't have much confidence in them. Handling a PC port of a PS4 game from scratch seemed to be too much for NISA.
It is why I considered PC to be double dip territory. The PS4 was a safe bet to get right away, and if the PC version turned out good... get it in a sale.

I'm more optimistic if they're willing to delay, though that retroactively adds the "play right away" reason to the PS4 game.
 

Knurek

Member
Are they? Ys Origin and Oath in Felghana were pretty much perfect IMHO.
(Of course, technically those aren't "ports", but if you get this specific then there areN't really many "Ys PC ports" in the first place)

Yeah, just 5 and 7 so far.
(And 5 was just a SNES emulator packed with a ROM file)
 

jett

D-Member
It's a port of the PS4 version, not the Vita version. Still, with proper optimization a port of Ys VIII should be able to run with a good framerate on most systems.

The PS4 version clearly has heavy roots on the Vita though. I guess it has slightly higher-res textures. It's an ugly, PS2-era looking thing.
 

DPB

Member
Man, that sounds pretty bad. Ys PC ports are generally kinda rough, but they're never completely broken. Hopefully the delay helps them iron it out. I'll definitely wait for reviews and impressions and if it's really that bad I'll just get the PS4 version

What ports? 7 is the only one released so far that was a port, all the others were released on PC first years ago.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Alternatively, companies could just allocate a reasonable amount of time for a port and have an experienced team handle it. Ridiculous idea I know :p
That's crazy talk! Everyone knows nobody buys games on PCs and just pirates them. Except for PUBG.

Seriously it's not like PS4 ports or other things materialize out of nowhere. Falcon should have contracted a PC dev themselves and then worked with NISA to localize but instead they just dump their screwy code on 3rd parties which then try to do it at cheapest means possible often enough. Even if games sell well quality is not guaranteed... hey Nier.
 

Pachael

Member
That's crazy talk! Everyone knows nobody buys games on PCs and just pirates them. Except for PUBG.

Seriously it's not like PS4 ports or other things materialize out of nowhere. Falcon should have contracted a PC dev themselves and then worked with NISA to localize but instead they just dump their screwy code on 3rd parties which then try to do it at cheapest means possible often enough. Even if games sell well quality is not guaranteed... hey Nier.

I think it was cheapest and quickest, particularly with the intended day and date release with PS4/PC. Might have come up in the initial negotiations, who knows.
 
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