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UrbanRats · Mar 5, 2012

Roxas said:
this is so bad i want to kill myself.

It would be a nice in water ending

for this collection.

Beware of spoilers from Silent Hill 2.

dark10x said:
OK, I think I can see what's going on with that comparison.

1) I do think the PS2 footage color balance is a bit off as the game isn't actually THAT contrasty in person.

2) That said, there is still a pretty clear difference I'm positive that it was made for a very simple reason: a lot of people are using LCD TVs.

Both games, as they appear on PS2, have large portions of the screen filled completely with blackness. With the HD footage (especially obvious with the SH3 footage) you can see that much more of the scene is visible.

The simple reason for this, I believe, is that empty black space looks absolutely atrocious on most LCDs. These games were designed for CRT TVs, which could actually handle those black areas and display them as truly black. Those same areas on an LCD, however, simply reveal the shining gray backlight pushing through. Rather than darkness, you see the backlight. I believe they were compensating for this by display details that were originally obscured by darkness in the original release.

It is for this reason that I always believed this collection to be a fools errand. Most modern TVs simply can't handle Silent Hill the way it was meant to be experienced.

You can clearly see what I'm talking about here. Notice how much darker the PS2 footage is? Most of the image is bathed in darkness while the HD footage allows you to see the details surrounding you. By revealing the shadow detail you've created a more "LCD friendly" image. Unfortunately, this destroys any accuracy you may have been aiming for.

The fact remains, if you want to play these games properly you need a high quality standard definition CRT and the PS2 versions hooked up to a nice stereo setup.

Sorry man, quoted for the new page.

Anyway the black parts imo are just for the different aspect ratio.
Most CRT screens were 4:3, so a lot of games were developed with those in mind.. today though, everyone have an lcd in 16:9, so they had to "add" the missing space.
Unless you mean the contrast itself, which is incredibly more extreme on the ps2 footage, yes.

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! · Mar 5, 2012

I think 2 looks better or at least not offensive.
but what the fuck happened to 3 :lol.

pa22word · Mar 5, 2012

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
I think 2 looks better or at least not offensive.

Really? Those new textures are hideous (and not in a good silent hill-ly way hahaha).

Niks · Mar 5, 2012

Team silent must be pulling their hair out.
WTF are they doing.

Arren · Mar 5, 2012

What the hell, those colors are completely compromised, especially in Silent Hill 3. It's like, judging upon those shots, it feels like an entirely different game already.

UrbanRats · Mar 5, 2012

To be honest though, i don't remember SH3 being THAT saturated.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

UrbanRats said:
It would be a nice in water ending

for this collection.

Beware of spoilers from Silent Hill 2.

Sorry man, quoted for the new page.

Anyway the black parts imo are just for the different aspect ratio.
Most CRT screens were 4:3, so a lot of games were developed with those in mind.. today though, everyone have an lcd in 16:9, so they had to "add" the missing space.
Unless you mean the contrast itself, which is incredibly more extreme on the ps2 footage, yes.

I realize it's 4:3. I'm talking about the darkness around Heather and the scene within the 4:3 window. It's MUCH darker and it IS very dark in the original version on a properly calibrated TV. There are large sections of the game in which no shadow detail is present in order to create darkness.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

UrbanRats said:
To be honest though, i don't remember SH3 being THAT saturated.

It was REALLY saturated during many of the otherworld segments. I remember it being so oppressive I didn't want to keep playing at times, because of how heavy the atmosphere was.

UrbanRats · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
I realize it's 4:3. I'm talking about the darkness around Heather and the scene within the 4:3 window. It's MUCH darker and it IS very dark in the original version on a properly calibrated TV. There are large sections of the game in which no shadow detail is present in order to create darkness.

Yeah, i realized that afterwards, but left it there anyway

I'm a bit slow today, sorry.

Typographenia said:
It was REALLY saturated during many of the otherworld segments. I remember it being so oppressive I didn't want to keep playing at times, because of how heavy the atmosphere was.

I remember thinking that during the alternate hospital, but the gamespot footage seems still a lot more saturated than my memories, i guess it depends on TV calibration, too.

There's no doubt that the HD version is severely washed down though, look at the color of the reddish dirt on the urinals in SH2's beginning shot.

Lime · Mar 5, 2012

UrbanRats said:
To be honest though, i don't remember SH3 being THAT saturated.

It was.

K' Dash · Mar 5, 2012

I won't let this spoil my experience, it's been forever since I played SH2, I don't have a PS to play the original release, so this will have to suffice.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

K' Dash said:
I won't let this spoil my experience, it's been forever since I played SH2, I don't have a PS to play the original release, so this will have to suffice.

You only have a 360 then?

plagiarize · Mar 5, 2012

dear Konami, please put the PC versions up for sale on a reputable digital store. the main reason i was going to buy this is because when I played 3, I borrowed it and I don't have it. I own all the others, and 3 is one of my favourites.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

plagiarize said:
dear Konami, please put the PC versions up for sale on a reputable digital store. the main reason i was going to buy this is because when I played 3, I borrowed it and I don't have it. I own all the others, and 3 is one of my favourites.

PC version of SH2 already kind of sucks, but then again, the version in this collection appears even worse.

There is no replacement for the original PS2 release.

AkuMifune · Mar 5, 2012

This is a totally worthless post, but wish this was coming to Vita. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to play locked in a closet or something. :0

Still hoping for the best with this collection.

pa22word · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
There is no replacement for the original PS2 release.

Restless Dreams on Xbox is the best version of the game in every regard dude

Napalm_Frank · Mar 5, 2012

pa22word said:
Restless Dreams on Xbox is the best version of the game in every regard dude

Aint Xbox version missing some effects?

Broder Salsa · Mar 5, 2012

Napalm_Frank said:
Aint Xbox version missing some effects?

No idea but people are saying the PC version is missing effects too. I still have yet to notice that at all and it's a great replacement for the PS2 versions, although the controls takes a bit to get used to.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

pa22word said:
Restless Dreams on Xbox is the best version of the game in every regard dude

Can't agree.

It's missing some visual effects (fog was pared back significantly, for instance), features much lower quality video sequences (artifacts + reduced framerate), and has a lower quality audio mix. It simply feels less polished overall in that there are slight hiccups and oddities that occur randomly throughout, which was very common with first generation XBOX titles.

The only improvement is the addition of a per-pixel flashlight cone.

It's a GOOD version of the game, but it is not the best in every regard by any means.

The PC version suffered from all of the same issues but also introduced a massive downgrade in shadow quality.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

plagiarize said:
dear Konami, please put the PC versions up for sale on a reputable digital store. the main reason i was going to buy this is because when I played 3, I borrowed it and I don't have it. I own all the others, and 3 is one of my favourites.

To this day, I still don't understand why they haven't done that. People are constantly asking where to find pc copies or just saying they want to play it on pc.

I don't know if it's just they don't want to mess with getting it to run on current hardware, they don't see it being profitable, or it's just Konami being Konami. Regardless, it's frustrating.

Lime · Mar 5, 2012

Except for the lack of dynamic shadows in SH2, the PC versions of SH2 and SH3 are far from inferior considering the inclusion of high res textures, graphical effects, and custom resolutions. And provided you have a controller to play with rather than kbm.

I have yet to see any corroboration of dark10x' claim that the fog is worse in the PC version of SH2 (judging from screenshots of the PS2 version on Gamespot they look identical, but that's just me)

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

Lime said:
Except for the lack of dynamic shadows in SH2, the PC versions of SH2 and SH3 are far from inferior considering the inclusion of high res textures, graphical effects, and custom resolutions.

And provided you have a controller to play with rather than kbm.

Wait, was the PC version modded to include new textures and graphics effects? The game, without any mods, lacks certain effects and uses the exact same textures as the other versions.

I have yet to see any corroboration of dark10x' claim that the fog is worse in the PC version of SH2 (judging from screenshots of the PS2 version on Gamespot they look identical, but that's just me)

I wish there were an easy way to demonstrate. I've done a three way side by side comparison between the different versions.

The most obvious place to see it is just after leaving the cemetery. When the camera is facing the gate you exit through you can see the fog swirling around. On PS2 there are at least 2-3 times as many fog particles present and those particles are more complex. The XBOX and PC versions both use fewer particles with a less complex pattern. Unfortunately, this comparison is difficult to make these days without moving around a lot of hardware and nobody else seems to have made it. The hard shadow issue with the PC version is very easy to see, however.

I don't see why this is surprising, though, as MGS2 suffered from the same problems when ported to XBOX and PC. The particles took a huge hit.

indigo-cyclops · Mar 5, 2012

Typographenia said:
To this day, I still don't understand why they haven't done that. People are constantly asking where to find pc copies or just saying they want to play it on pc.

I don't know if it's just they don't want to mess with getting it to run on current hardware, they don't see it being profitable, or it's just Konami being Konami. Regardless, it's frustrating.

GOG just needs to step the hell in, know what I mean?

MoxManiac · Mar 5, 2012

I've never played these and was looking forward to the collection. But I can't support this shit. I'm just going to get the PS2 releases and play them on my SDTV.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
GOG just needs to step the hell in, know what I mean?

Does Konami have a substantial enough library for it to be worth gog's time? I honestly don't know.

Anyone know when review embargo lifts for these?

Risk Breaker · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
Wait, was the PC version modded to include new textures and graphics effects? The game, without any mods, lacks certain effects and uses the exact same textures as the other versions.

Not modded, I remember SH2 and SH3 having an option to select higher texture resolutions. I never compared both versions directly but SH2's textures looked great.

K' Dash · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
You only have a 360 then?

I don't have a PS2, nor a CRT to play it.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

Lime said:
Except for the lack of dynamic shadows in SH2, the PC versions of SH2 and SH3 are far from inferior considering the inclusion of high res textures, graphical effects, and custom resolutions. And provided you have a controller to play with rather than kbm.

I have yet to see any corroboration of dark10x' claim that the fog is worse in the PC version of SH2 (judging from screenshots of the PS2 version on Gamespot they look identical, but that's just me)

OK, I had to pull this from shitty Youtube videos, so the quality is very poor, but you can at least see the gist of what I'm talking about. If you notice in the PC footage, there is a lot of additional "gray space" behind the fence. You can clearly see there are fewer fog particles in play. Now, in this shitty video, the effect is diminished a bit, but if you stop and look at these versions in person you can see a very significant difference that is present throughout the entire game (as fog is used constantly).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FJ19AhYZV9U#t=603s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldJzMqEF6hw#t=253s

As for shadows, it's VERY difficult to find comparison shots that can show the difference directly.

On PS2 and XBOX, the shadows were like this:

On PC, however, they were like this:

They were very sharp and harsh rather than soft. Clean, sharp shadows definitely do not benefit the experience.

Not modded, I remember SH2 and SH3 having an option to select higher texture resolutions. I never compared both versions directly but SH2's textures looked great.

I know what setting you're referring to, but that doesn't actually provide higher resolution textures. The textures are the same.

Lime · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
Wait, was the PC version modded to include new textures and graphics effects? The game, without any mods, lacks certain effects and uses the exact same textures as the other versions.

Oh, I'm not saying they had extra effects as such, but the effects at least were in the options.

PC SH2 has: Advanced Filters, Lens Flare, and Hi-res Textures, lacks dynamic shadows
PC SH3 has: Texture Resolution (up to 4096x4096), dynamic shadows, lens flare, and some other stuff I can't recall (I'm at work so unable to check up on it),

I wish there were an easy way to demonstrate. I've done a three way side by side comparison between the different versions.

The most obvious place to see it is just after leaving the cemetery. When the camera is facing the gate you exit through you can see the fog swirling around. On PS2 there are at least 2-3 times as many fog particles present and those particles are more complex. The XBOX and PC versions both use fewer particles with a less complex pattern. Unfortunately, this comparison is difficult to make these days without moving around a lot of hardware and nobody else seems to have made it. The hard shadow issue with the PC version is very easy to see, however.

I don't see why this is surprising, though, as MGS2 suffered from the same problems when ported to XBOX and PC. The particles took a huge hit.

Many thanks for the clarification. I appreciate such an informative post. I'll probably check it out some day.

UrbanRats · Mar 5, 2012

Well, too bad most of us don't have a CRT to enjoy the ps2 version on.
Ps2 games look like shit on the big screen. :\

Goddamn Konami.

dark10x · Mar 5, 2012

PC SH2 has: Advanced Filters, Lens Flare, and Hi-res Textures, lacks dynamic shadows

Textures were the same, lens flare was present in both, and I'm not sure what you mean by "advanced filters" (from what I played, the film grain effect was the same).

It does feature dynamic shadows, but they are hard shadows (they look like stencil shadows) rather than the much richer soft shadows in the original.

Take a look above for the fog comparison.

Well, too bad most of us don't have a CRT to enjoy the ps2 version on.
Ps2 games look like shit on the big screen. :\

Well, these games are going to look like shit on most flat panels even at native resolution. More than just about any other games, these do NOT cope well with LCDs or even most plasmas.

AuthenticM · Mar 5, 2012

Where did you guys hear that SH3 does not have the original voice track? Google didn't turn up anything.

PetriP-TNT · Mar 5, 2012

Anteater said:
Yea wonder what happened there, and where's the ground textures!

You can see in the comparison video the "real" texture on the ground during the cutscene. It has this really small pattern of raised iron, which looked okayish in the closeup but that really looks plain when viewed further o_0.

I understand where they were going with the HD remake but it doesn't look that good. I'd argue that the visual quality is still better in SH3HD than in SH2HD, SH2HD looks really odd, at least in those early parts.

And dark10x is true as far it goes to PS2 vs PC comparison. I just played the PC version not too far ago and it certainly looks kinda "off" in places, especially due to the shadows.

UrbanRats · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
Well, these games are going to look like shit on most flat panels even at native resolution. More than just about any other games, these do NOT cope well with LCDs or even most plasmas.

Not arguing that, but in general, it's been a shock trying to play Cube/ps2 games on the big screen, if anything for the sheer size of it, it's all a blurry mess; i was looking forward to this HD edition and wasn't even expecting a masterclass work, but i don't see why they've gone through all the trouble to change stuff like this.. this collection has been "cursed" since the beginning.

AuthenticM · Mar 5, 2012

Never mind. I've seen the video below, and Heather clearly does not have the same voice actress. She doesn't sound bad though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGiB2Og723k

Combichristoffersen · Mar 5, 2012

I really wanted this collection to be good, but as it is, I see no reason to support this. Ordered a copy of SH3 for PS2 (as I already have SH2 for PS2), and I'll just hook up my PS2 again to play SH2 and 3. Might get the collection if I can find it used at Gamestop sometime in the future.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

AuthenticM said:
Never mind. I've seen the video below, and Heather clearly does not have the same voice actress. She doesn't sound bad though.

I just wish we had some solid chunks of video where there was more voice acting.

How About No · Mar 5, 2012

When I first played Silent Hill 2 on the PS2 all those years ago, I always thought it was rather washed out and muddy.

Now I realize it was like a fucking Saturday morning cartoon compared to this abomonation.

And Silent Hill 3...baaaarffff

Squirts Macintosh · Mar 5, 2012

Has anyone played the Xbox version of SH2 on their 360? I'm curious if everything runs okay that way. There were some issues listed on Wikipedia but I don't know how pronounced those are, or if they are widespread or not.

Lime · Mar 5, 2012

Squirts Macintosh said:
Has anyone played the Xbox version of SH2 on their 360? I'm curious if everything runs okay that way. There were some issues listed on Wikipedia but I don't know how pronounced those are, or if they are widespread or not.

There are massive problems with the 360 emulating SH2. Missing textures and lighting. A gaffer once posted some impressions some years back.

Mr_Zombie · Mar 5, 2012

Squirts Macintosh said:
Has anyone played the Xbox version of SH2 on their 360? I'm curious if everything runs okay that way. There were some issues listed on Wikipedia but I don't know how pronounced those are, or if they are widespread or not.

Dot50Cal from THiA did a feature on X360's BC regarding SH2: http://www.the-horror.com/index.php?id=features&s=sh2360

tldr; it's full of graphic and audio glitches and (if you run past 15 save files) a game breaking bugs.

Perkel · Mar 5, 2012

AuthenticM said:
Never mind. I've seen the video below, and Heather clearly does not have the same voice actress. She doesn't sound bad though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGiB2Og723k

I know nostalgia is a b% but this looks just sad. Washed out collors that made Otherworld tully alien.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

Silent Hill 3 - Heather and Douglas

I'm pretty pleased with the voices. I think they did a good job with the two.

edit: for those of you who haven't played SH3 before, this is near the very beginning of the game. No worry about spoilers.

randomwab · Mar 5, 2012

Typographenia said:
Silent Hill 3 - Heather and Douglas

I'm pretty pleased with the voices. I think they did a good job with the two.

edit: for those of you who haven't played SH3 before, this is near the very beginning of the game. No worry about spoilers.

Eh, not bad. But I mean, Silent Hill 3's voice acting was really top notch. Pity it's not here.

Can't wait to hear the

"They look like MONSTERS to you"

line.

Lime · Mar 5, 2012

Not as bad as I expected, but the original voice cast does a better job. New Heather does not sound as "wounded" as what Heather Morris achieved, and Douglas sounds like a slurry drunk (although that might work to the advantage of the character).

Also, colours are completely fucked. Too much pink-ish tint compared to the original SH3.

EDIT: Apparently they added the crowd noise in the mall.

Persona7 · Mar 5, 2012

It is odd how I associate the weather with Silent Hill 3. I remember the day it came out back in 2003, mainly because I counted down the days on my calendar and the day it came out I had to walk several blocks through the extremely HOT, yet overcast and muggy weather to get the game itself.

It was 90 degrees that day and it was during a week that we got some light rain. The weather was depressing and oppressive at the same time, much like the game itself.

Mr. Enigma · Mar 5, 2012

dark10x said:
The fact remains, if you want to play these games properly you need a high quality standard definition CRT and the PS2 versions hooked up to a nice stereo setup.

This. Old-gen PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube games look absolutely phenomenal on CRTs with component inputs.

Playing them on LCD/LED/Plasma HDTVs looks like vomit.

Persona7 · Mar 5, 2012

I am pretty sure the Mall crowd noises were in the original game, maybe not as pronounced during the call though.

Typographenia · Mar 5, 2012

Persona7 said:
I am pretty sure the Mall crowd noises were in the original game, maybe not as pronounced during the call though.

I believe you're correct.

Did they just suddenly cut out like they do in the preview video, though? I'll see if I can track down the cutscene real fast to post.

edit: http://youtu.be/UAPhJEt1aVU?t=1m03s

They had the crowd noise in the background up until the phone call. At least they faded the audio out, haha.

Futurevoid · Mar 5, 2012

Persona7 said:
I am pretty sure the Mall crowd noises were in the original game

The mall crowd noise absolutely was, yes.

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