ZombieSupaStar
Member
Im rooting for the hackers on this whole thing.
no pun intended.
no pun intended.
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PS3 OFW 3.56 New Feature: Rootkit (allegedly)
- Thread starter Vagabundo
- Start date
Ploid 3.0 said:
Well, I purchased my PS3 at launch day after waiting in the rain for close to a day when I should have been studying instead. Got myself a 60GB one, played around with Linux, collected some games over time, imported some, got a number off of PSN as well. At one point I even said the hell with it and got a Qore subscription, however I don't think it was really worth the money.
One day Sony tells me and all their other customers that they are removing the OtherOS feature - so I didn't update; was unable to buy new games, etc. This guy geohot comes around and offers up a solution - A custom(ized) 3.55 firmware that will allow me to run some homebrew, one day will offer a way to get OtherOS back, and let me enjoy watching Netflix on my TV, which I pay a company called Netflix to be able to see video content from a variety of sources.
Just the other day Sony decided that I was to upgrade to 3.56 or be unable to connect to PSN. That is fine by me, once again it is Sony's loss since I will be unable to purchase new games - again.
So I continued to enjoy my already purchased games, legal homebrew, and Netflix - sure every now and again I would get a message that popped up asking me to connect to PSN, I'd just cancel it and continue my movie viewing. But yesterday Sony had a bit of the Netflix HTML changed as to not allow me to view the video if I cancel the logon dialog.
Now I ask you - what purpose does have outside of spite? I wasn't pirating any games - I don't have a low enough ping to even play multiplayer games so I don't cheat online. I'm a paying customer to Netflix. I can't think of why they would do such a thing - it's petty.
Quasar: You mean until there is no where left to go because the government will have sided with big-business on all consumer rights issues, right?
There are no "white hats" in this thread - it's one gang of spiteful morons lashing out in fear, selfishness and over-entitlement, and another gang of imbeciles who think they're fighting da powah, and telling the others to cry moar. They're all a bunch of spoiled idiots IMO. What the hell ever happened to compromise? Diplomacy? Respect for the rights of others?ZombieSupaStar said:
As for me, I'm not "rooting" for anyone, but I will be damned if I allow anyone else, even Sony and their acolytes on this forum, to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own legally-bought property, online or not. As long as what I do harms nobody, either directly or indirectly, and is perfectly legal according to my local laws, they can just go fish. That's my view, and I'm pretty sure that it's the right one to take.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
ivedoneyourmom said:
Sounds like your authentication ticket has expired. The purpose probably has little to do with spite and more to do with Netfix wanting to authenticate that you are who you say you are. Would you expect Netflix to allow you to view movies on your PC without logging in?
Gokurakumaru said:
Maybe that was it; however why do I need to be logged into both my netflix and my PSN. I am able to get to the point of selecting my video then I get shoved into an infinite loop of PSN signon dialogs.
Netflix requiring PSN login is nothing more than a stupid bullet-point for people to boast about subscribers at board meetings and E3. They already have my name as a PSN subscriber - even if I can't log on any longer - what more do they want of me?
NullPointer
Member
By cracking the PS3 haven't you very specifically opted out of Sony's closed platform? You've violated their terms of service, and the only thing keeping you from easily pirating a large library of games or attempting to exploit online matches is your personal code of honor, something that no video game publisher can afford to depend upon.ivedoneyourmom said:
I just find it rich that you'd refer to Sony's (or Netflix's) actions as petty, since they're just expressing their right to maintain control of their service, just as you are expressing your right to use your property as you see fit.
NullPointer said:
Sony can keep their service, I am concerned with Netflix's service, which is artificially conflated with PSN.
And how does me not having PSN/Netflix keep me from pirating? Wouldn't it have the exact opposite effect? If people can't buy PSN exclusive Awesome Game but really want it wouldn't they instead go to ps3war3z.net and grab a cracked version?
And it's not about a personal code of honor - by existing in the country I reside in I am bound by a social contract - one that says that I am not allowed to break the law, and if I do break the law the GOVERNMENT which is made of a constituent body of everyone in my country is to determine my fate for my actions.
It's not a company's place to determine what is or is not against the law, nor whether I have potential for going against their wishes.
I respect Sony's wish to keep me off of PSN, but once again what does that got to do with my PAID subscription to Netflix?
NullPointer
Member
Your access to Netflix via your PS3 is based upon agreements between Netflix and Sony, and between you and Sony by way of PSN terms of service. Its not something you're entitled to.ivedoneyourmom said:
Anyway, wouldnt it be possible to get a decent homebrew browser that would enable you to stream Netflix via their website? At that point it would be a direct matter between you as a web consumer and Netflix, without Sony's involvement.
Well, yes, removing the OtherOS function I never used, but which I had paid for, without any recompense was a shitty thing to do, regardless of the reasons given. It showed a clear disrespect for the consumers of their products, and I think that's the main problem for many people, including myself.Marrshu said:
Now, however, as we can see in this thread, things have gotten out of hand. People are just yelling at each other, wishing harm upon each other, slavishly toeing the "party line" of each side, not showing any respect for each other or their viewpoints, or even trying to understand them. And, while the pro-Sony side are by far the worse of the two, the homebrew side has had its fair share of arrogant tools as well.
It'd be laughable if it weren't so serious.
ivedoneyourmom: The PS3's intenet browser still works, even without PSN access, doesn't it? It may be a shit browser, but it's worth a try, isn't it?
NullPointer said:
Actually the Netflix app is nothing more than a webkit engine with some authentification magic to wrap around h.264 videos.
Unfortunately I doubt there will ever be a homebrew browser capable of streaming Netflix because their web client requires Silverlight which has not a snowballs chance of being ported to Cell/PPC.
Anyway, you are 100% correct that my access to Netflix on my PS3 is arranged through Sony - however I don't think it was very nice of them to require a PSN signon to use it. That all said, I still don't think people being unable to watch their Netflix on their PS3 is going to cut down on piracy, so it seems like a silly means to stop it.
Dambrosi: Yeah, I wished it worked, but Netflix uses silverlight not flash.
Ploid 3.0
Member
ivedoneyourmom said:
Your sub to netflix cover disk mail deliveries, and access to netflix via the web. PS3 is just one of the web devices you can access it on. Crack open a web browser from PC, or linux. Some TVs have netflix, maybe you have a BR player or another PS3 with updated firmware. Netflix didn't cancel your sub you just refuse to update your ps3 for personal reasons it seem.
NullPointer
Member
They're nicer than Microsoft at least, requiring an Xbox Live Gold membership to access it on the 360. But I understand where you're coming from.ivedoneyourmom said:
I just figure that Sony sees people who crack their system as, well, assholes, or at the very least, troublesome. So expecting them to show any decency in return seems very odd to me. In the same way, forcing people to choose between OtherOS and PSN/Gaming without compensation was Sony being an asshole. I'd personally like for that class action suit in the states to go through.
With one key difference, though: pro-homebrew are trying to defend their rights. Pro-Sony are trying to defend somebody else's right while paving the way for a future where consumers right are trampled on a regular basis.Dambrosi said:
The removal of OtherOS is a despicable act, one I hope Sony will pay dearly for in the end. And, on this, I sincerely wish them to be torn a new one by piracy. Not homebrew, not anything else. Piracy, plain and simple. There is a limit to what corporations should be allowed to do *against* their paying customers. Sony has long crossed that line, in my opinion.
And regarding, because I know the place, the claims that piracy hurts developers... bring your development somewhere else. If you don't, I don't have great sympathy for your eventual problems.
Edit: btw, I have not used CFW on PS3 so far and my 360 is still unmodified in any form or way. It's the principle that makes the baby jeebus cry on this one.
SolidSnakex
Member
cedric69 said:
And you really don't realize how that would also impact consumers negatively as well as game developers that had no role in the removal of the OtherOS?
The greater good is that companies behaving like this toward consumers don't get their money. Are you saying I should worry because if developers stop people will not be able to play games on their console? Yeah, I know.SolidSnakex said:
But again, in my opinion, there is always a line that must not be crossed. In this case it's been crossed and I believe it's a line far more important than the consequences you suggest.
Edit: who's the lady in your avatar?
No, I can't agree. While they may argue under the guise of loyalty to Sony, I believe that most of the anti-homebrew side just want to preserve their "right" to a trouble-free online experience. Which is strange, since they never had that "right" in the first place. Meanwhile, the pro-homebrew people argue for their "right" to modify their own property as they see fit, which is justified, but may not actually be a "right", depending on how corrupt their country's laws are. Of course, such evil laws must be challenged, but this is not the forum to do so in. You wanna do something? Give money to the EFF or to geohot's legal fund!cedric69 said:
See? Too many people talking about "rights", and not enough trying to do what's right.
I can't agree with this, either. It's not the developers' faults that Sony are being willfully intransigent. Leave them and their products out of this. A little less militancy, friend.cedric69 said:
I do, however, agree with this. As they currently are, Sony - hell, any multinational corporation - cannot be trusted.Marrshu said:
SolidSnakex
Member
cedric69 said:
I'm saying if you're looking out for consumers then why are you wishing for something that would hurt them? There are people that can only buy one console a generation and yet you're hoping that piracy will rip a console apart just to teach a company example. Basically you don't care about who else it impacts as long a Sony is at least on the receiving end of some of it.
And from the developers perspective you have an issue with them potentially losing the jobs because their games don't sell as well as expected. So it's not just an issue of fewer games being released on the platform.
cedric69 said:
Stana Katic
Marrshu said:
If you are on OFW hackers will not be able to install anything on your system using this method as OFW will not allow it.
Sony effectively can ask your PS3 now if its legit and to prove it by doing a check at random areas of itself and reporting back to a remote server. This will be a transparent process and will probably take seconds at most. Crucially this check can be random and dictated by the remote server, not the client as the client could be modified. This check is done in real time in the systems ram and nothing is installed to your ps3. The new firmware has been programmed to accept these requests and these requests will only occur once you sign into PSN and a secure connection achieved.
The reason the word rootkit has got about is because a respected hacker on the scene found this change, and when he realised there was probably nothing could be done to circumvent he called it something its not really but is to him as its stopping him doing what he wants to do. To be fair he should have gone the whole hog and called it a virus to really get the forums screaming lawsuits from the rooftops.
Some are saying this is insecure, which I doubt because whilst the connection could be intercepted it will be encrypted using a key provided by the remote server. There has been no evidence of PSN traffic being intercepted to date, and I see no reason to change, but if you are worried about this stuff you should probably not use internet banking, e-mail and the likes too. There is much more chance of the PSN servers being hacked than one single encrypted connection.
Saying that my PS3 has photos, music and movies which are backed up, hackers are free to do their worst in the very unlikely scenario that they do break in.
NullPointer
Member
Doing what it takes to assure a trouble free online experience IS the right thing to do, even if you can't guarantee perfect success.Dambrosi said:
It would do people well to remember that the vast majority of people who bought PS3s did so for its primary purposes, namely games and media playback (including bluray). You guys in the homebrew scene have your rights - but you could have just as well bought hardware more suited to what you seem to want, rather than trying to force everything else into that mold at other people's expense.
There's a little too much of this sentiment going around.SolidSnakex said:
gogogow said:
There's a good chance Sony are data farming at the minute as its fairly simple for them to close that loophole. It would naive to think they don't know exactly what is connected and how its connected.
There's evidence that Sony are closely watching forums so they will know exactly what's happening the second it happens. Providing a complex and comprehensive deterrent to running CFW won't happen overnight although it appears they've made a decent start.
Yes, it's just a matter of what you consider the lesser evil. You look at the specific case, I look at the consequences in the long run.SolidSnakex said:
Honestly, I'm not sure I'm on the "right" side. I just want to express as I view things. There's too much stuff going on, currently, that threatens consumers rights.
I would be sorry if consumers can't play any more games. But I honestly believe it would not come down to that. PS1 and PS2 were piracy plagued but developers still thrived. Now, development costs are higher, and so on and so forth... I know. See lesser evil above. IMHO, clearly.
I could have photos and movies of me and my wife doing hardcore sex. Private stuff. Private. You say you don't care if private stuff gets exposed. To each his own I guess.kitch9 said:
In any case, you bet on Sony managing to close this. We'll see about that. It would be a first. I still remember their claims on BluRay. LOL.
And yes, I LOL not because I'm some teen brainnuts, I LOL because I want to watch my media as I prefer. Which is through an HTPC front end.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Fersis said:
Much Better.
The baseline I believe in is thus:
1) You have the right to do whatever you want with the hardware you bought.
2) Sony has the right to do whatever necessary to guarantee the integrity of their network service.
When a system is fully compromised like the PS3 is now, the ability to execute arbitrary code over the network is pretty much the only way to guarantee that a specific console is running approved software. As such, I think it's fair for Sony to require that ability if you want to connect to PSN.
I'm currently running CFW by the way.
1) You have the right to do whatever you want with the hardware you bought.
2) Sony has the right to do whatever necessary to guarantee the integrity of their network service.
When a system is fully compromised like the PS3 is now, the ability to execute arbitrary code over the network is pretty much the only way to guarantee that a specific console is running approved software. As such, I think it's fair for Sony to require that ability if you want to connect to PSN.
I'm currently running CFW by the way.
Ok, now we are bordering on personal attack and I don't have a lot of patience. My example was generic. I don't do that. People might, though, and a setting that was secure before Sony intervention could be unsecure without users understanding fully why.kitch9 said:
I have an HTPC. I just can't watch my BDs on it streaming them from my server. Oh, wait. I can. But surely not thanks to retarded DRM that was cracked from day one.
richisawesome said:
By the time the scene gives up its fascination with backup managers and writes something decent the PS4 will be near release and you're back to square one.
Mini HTPC's will run what you want for little outlay with none of the hoops to jump through. I'm personally looking at the new whdi stuff so I can have what's on my pc in my living room.
cedric69 said:
Oh please, no need to be so dramatic.
ivedoneyourmom said:
I agree with you that the removal of OtherOS from the machines originally sold with it was a terrible thing for Sony to do. I hope they lose their class action suit on it.
On the other hand, complaining that Netflix (a feature that didn't even exist when you bought your PS3) doesn't work since you've violated the PSN TOS seems weak to me. If you're unwilling to play by Sony's rules, you don't get to use their network.
Lonewolf_92
Member
BrLvgThrChmstry said:
You can boot any back up from any PS3 game disc. I use a $5 used game I picked up and keep the rest of my games in a box in the closet (I have a one year old, a three year old, and a five year old, so it's nice to keep my games protected).
Nice thing about threads like this, lets you know who the bat-shit insane posters are so you can put them on ignore.
Jocchan said:
Netflix on PS3 requires PSN:
Already have a PS3 system?
To watch instantly on your PS3 system, you need to:
Connect your PS3 system to the internet
Sign-up for or sign-in to your free PlayStation® Network account
Go to the PlayStation® Network section of the XMB then select "What's New"
Click on the Netflix icon to download and install the Netflix application
And people say pro-Sony side are the worst of the two? Even after posts like this? Damn..cedric69 said:
I'm not condoning Sony for removing OtherOS but if you want to blame anyone it should be geohot. He was the one who created the USB hack using Lunix, and people wonder why Sony removed it?
And no, I'm trying to defend my own right. My right to enjoy hack free online gaming. You can do whatever the hell you want with your PS3 offline, I don't care if you hacked it for homebrew only. For one "legit" homebrew PS3 on PSN there would be 20 hacked PS3s with cheat apps or whatever they use to cheat online. I wouldn't have made this statement a week ago, if I hadn't experienced it first hand. After seeing the whole MW2 hack fiasco I don't want hacked PS3's online, simple as that.
ok trying to understand things here.
Hacker messed with OtherOS
Sony says new update will remove OtherOS...IF YOU CHOOSE TO INSTALL THIS UPDATE, YOU WILL LOSE OTHEROS.
some wanted to keep OtherOS....apparently more so than gaming on their PS3s, or they would like you to believe.
It was brought up when it first started happening. Why didn't these OtherOS gamers just buy another PS3? and have all the fun they wanted with their OtherOS system?
Sony didn't "take away" anything. I keep reading that over and over. They didn't force anything. You were still able to play all the old games you already purchased. You had a choice.
You own your console, it is yours. Everything you bought was yours, and you could do what ever you wanted with it. However, if you wanted to continue to use Sony's latest Software or services, you had to follow what Sony wanted. They are providing the new Software and the updated service. They are investing ALOT of money for these software and services for people who want to continue using them.
but why should you have to buy a new PS3? well I guess you can look at it as Sony just releasing a new system. Your OtherOS system can't play games designed for Sony's new system. You want Sony's new games or services? You buy their new system. (I can sense anger rising)
Don't get me wrong. I understand people want to open up their PS3s. The system is pretty unique, and you wonder all the things that might be possible. So many things. And that is why if I really cared to mess around with this unique system, I'd get a new one or a used one for cheap.
Maybe I missed something along the way following this whole ordeal, but I don't understand what the big deal is.
Hacker messed with OtherOS
Sony says new update will remove OtherOS...IF YOU CHOOSE TO INSTALL THIS UPDATE, YOU WILL LOSE OTHEROS.
some wanted to keep OtherOS....apparently more so than gaming on their PS3s, or they would like you to believe.
It was brought up when it first started happening. Why didn't these OtherOS gamers just buy another PS3? and have all the fun they wanted with their OtherOS system?
Sony didn't "take away" anything. I keep reading that over and over. They didn't force anything. You were still able to play all the old games you already purchased. You had a choice.
You own your console, it is yours. Everything you bought was yours, and you could do what ever you wanted with it. However, if you wanted to continue to use Sony's latest Software or services, you had to follow what Sony wanted. They are providing the new Software and the updated service. They are investing ALOT of money for these software and services for people who want to continue using them.
but why should you have to buy a new PS3? well I guess you can look at it as Sony just releasing a new system. Your OtherOS system can't play games designed for Sony's new system. You want Sony's new games or services? You buy their new system. (I can sense anger rising)
Don't get me wrong. I understand people want to open up their PS3s. The system is pretty unique, and you wonder all the things that might be possible. So many things. And that is why if I really cared to mess around with this unique system, I'd get a new one or a used one for cheap.
Maybe I missed something along the way following this whole ordeal, but I don't understand what the big deal is.
Afrikan said:
PS3s are supposed to play PS3 games. Trying to act like removal of playing future PS3 games is no big deal because you can play your old games is stupid. The console was sold to have media capabilities, OtherOS and play PS3 games. You shouldn't have to pick one or the other.
I love how forced obsolescence is now considered by some to be a completely acceptable tactic. Consumer rights are so fucked in this country.