Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I've never seen it but I did hear it was better. Maybe I'll give it a shot one day.
That's a really good example, actually. But it all started to go south with Fusion's poor attempt at a story.
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What creator/writer ruined the lore of their property overtime the most?
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
I've never seen it but I did hear it was better. Maybe I'll give it a shot one day.
That's a really good example, actually. But it all started to go south with Fusion's poor attempt at a story.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Does the moment where (War Arc spoilers)
we learn that Black Zetsu has been mislead/manipulating Madara from Day 1 count, where we learn that he's apparently behind essentially everything?
TheGameshark
Member
hahaha
Clearly a front runner.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
OP nailed it in his opening post. Agree completely.
Yeah that was some shit on Kojima part.
Versus's backstory literally being Holes still cracks me up
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The Midichlorian thing is a non-issue to me and the vast majority of non-extra hardcore fans.
Imperfected
Member
Kojima's a weird case because it's more of a roller-coaster ride than a steady decline, and people can (and do, diametrically opposing, even) disagree about where the "high" and "low" points on the ride were.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
All the talk of Diablo 3 is interesting to me, since I've played it but none of the other games. I just figured the story was supposed to be shit, threw on music, and rampaged to my heart's content while not listening to anyone talk. Fuck me was that bad dialogue.
I was under the impression that she didn't write it.
Kirby. Seriously.
Check out Diablo 2, or at least the cinematics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZEZUVJ59LA
The tone is dark, brooding, and legit terrifying sometimes. It's just an old man traveling with the guy you played in Diablo 1, only he's.... different. The difference between it and Diablo 3 is absolutely huge.
Well, I'm assuming you played V?
Which
retcons everything you said more or less, because Zero wasn't really a bad guy after all.
Both those games were bad story-wise for different reasons.
Dash_Riprock
Member
That's been pretty much the case since Empire, by his own admission. Difference was for the two OT sequels Lucas had writers, producers, and actors that were all still passionate about making a good movie first and making money second.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Seen Michael Bay's Transformers? Because that.
And eh... Halloween 6, if we're being honest.
edit: oh wait, their own property only? That suggests only people who were stubborn enough to stick around, and they are extremely rare. Only Scott and Lucas really could fit that bill.
And eh... Halloween 6, if we're being honest.
edit: oh wait, their own property only? That suggests only people who were stubborn enough to stick around, and they are extremely rare. Only Scott and Lucas really could fit that bill.
Came to say this. The recent revival series was a chance to start fresh but with Carter around it won't. I'm
'Fucking shit up is a non-issue to me' - That's a strange thing to boast about.
Anyway it's definitely George and Ridley
Imperfected
Member
It's not high art or anything (aside from the cinematics, as others have mentioned, which were really best-in-show for their time), but it was solid dark fantasy/high school notebook heavy metal with good presentation.
cartographer
Member
Remember when you had to watch Thrall get married? Sadly I do.
Tite Kubo destroyed Bleach pretty much after they reach Hueco Mundo and he tries to explain the Huecos and Arrancar.
Hiro Mashima destroyed Fairy Tail the moment they went to that
parallel world
Kishimoto destroyed Naruto by trying to come out with even more crazy powers than the last one to the point that I don't know why people feared Zabuza and Haku.
Claymore is a weird case because some of things that were explained made the setting make more sense but then you had shit like that
big ultra powerful awakened being the "fusion" of Luciela and Rafaela
And the less we speak of the Nasuverse in general is for the better.
I like how Ridley turned into a fucking Pokemon.
Be glad you guys didn't play through to the Legacy of the Void epilogue. I'm kind of laughing hysterically to myself here thinking about how you'd react playing that shit. I don't even think the main trilogy story is awful aside from a few Raynor/Kerrigan love scenes, but that epilogue was pure fanfiction trash. And it's unfortunate that the story dives because like you said, the mission design is excellent. I think SC2 is a great game in every way except the story but, because the story is what it is, a lot of people just call the whole game garbage.
It's creepy how close those two series (Metroid and Alien) are, Prometheus / Other M have so many parallels, mainly an unnecessary origin story that ends up being abysmal.
I think it was because the original SC and Brood War had such great stories, surprisingly so for me as I didn't really play RTS games for the story and that game and its expansion was incredibly engrossing. Then the sequel came out and just trounced on everything the first game had built up whether it was characters and their relationships or just the world at large, fuck they killed it.
UberTag
Member
I can still point to great recent examples of storytelling, comedy and satire from The Simpsons. They're just few and far between instead of the norm.
I can't find anything good to take away from the recent contributions of Lucas and Scott to Star Wars and Alien, respectively.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Sonic Team?
The Wachowskis arguably count for the Matrix series.
The Wachowskis arguably count for the Matrix series.
You're what? What? Don't leave us hanging.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Yup. Any MGS after 3 just craps on lore and character development of the original trilogy in my eyes.
UberTag
Member
Those people all write to the whims of Vince McMahon.
You need to hold him ultimately accountable.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Since we're focusing more on lore than specific narrative and the like...
Fuck it, I'll still go with Naruto and Masashi Kishimoto. I will first note that I have not read Boruto past the first chapter, so any additional fuckery that comes from that, I am not aware of and thus am not factoring into this. Now, many long time readers/viewers are well aware that Naruto's overall story did decline in quality as it went on, but one of the less touched on aspects is how large swathes of series lore as it is first presented is... at best a generous interpretation of what's revealed to be the truth, if not flat out wrong.
Perhaps most emblematic of all this is a simple, basic fact where, if my memory serves me correctly and hasn't been corroded by my general frustration with the series, we're initially told the Third Hokage is supposed to be the strongest Hokage yet. This point is both standard shonen old man badass stuff, but in the particular context of the series, stands as a testament to its idea of how new generations build on what has come before in order to better. It handily also sets a benchmark for what one hopes Naruto will become if he's to ever to exceed the Third as Hokage. This point is summarily reinforced in the Chunin Arc/Sand-Leaf war when, in spite of being decades past his prime, Hiruzen holds off both of his predecessors - brought back from the dead as fucking immortal zombies with infinite chakra - at the same time, and even defeats them, even if at the cost of his own life. The Third Hokage was the strongest hokage, this was a fact of the world.
Except as time went on, Kishimoto fell increasingly into the trap of making older stuff more important, and more powerful. So the First Hokage, who one might previously have imagined was important for being the founder and all, but possibly the weakest of the bunch, turned out to:
A) Have a super special type of tree jutsu so rare that Orochimaru, the initial big bad, tried to replicate it by messing with kids' DNA
B) Have the power to control the Tailed Beasts, which are the most destructive force in the known world. Better yet, he gave them to the other nations as a means of creating a deliberate balance of power
C) Have been so fucking powerful that he was once called the 'God of Shinobi', and this is affirmed with his rival being the only person who could even contest him, said rival basically curbstomping the shit out of everyone when he is brought back as an immortal zombie with infinite chakra.
So that which defined the Third Hokage, and gave us some sense of what the broad progression of the world was meant to be, is undone for the sake of a tired, narrative cliché where the older in time something/someone is, the more powerful it is compared to the present. I could go on - the retcons to the sharingan, the origins of chakra, the outright relationships of the characters prior to when we meet them, etc. Not even the opening scene is left untouched, and while the twist is kinda neat, it's wrapped up in so much other nonsense I think I'd prefer if it had still been, well, the equivalent of a natural disaster as it was initially presented.
Fuck it, I'll still go with Naruto and Masashi Kishimoto. I will first note that I have not read Boruto past the first chapter, so any additional fuckery that comes from that, I am not aware of and thus am not factoring into this. Now, many long time readers/viewers are well aware that Naruto's overall story did decline in quality as it went on, but one of the less touched on aspects is how large swathes of series lore as it is first presented is... at best a generous interpretation of what's revealed to be the truth, if not flat out wrong.
Perhaps most emblematic of all this is a simple, basic fact where, if my memory serves me correctly and hasn't been corroded by my general frustration with the series, we're initially told the Third Hokage is supposed to be the strongest Hokage yet. This point is both standard shonen old man badass stuff, but in the particular context of the series, stands as a testament to its idea of how new generations build on what has come before in order to better. It handily also sets a benchmark for what one hopes Naruto will become if he's to ever to exceed the Third as Hokage. This point is summarily reinforced in the Chunin Arc/Sand-Leaf war when, in spite of being decades past his prime, Hiruzen holds off both of his predecessors - brought back from the dead as fucking immortal zombies with infinite chakra - at the same time, and even defeats them, even if at the cost of his own life. The Third Hokage was the strongest hokage, this was a fact of the world.
Except as time went on, Kishimoto fell increasingly into the trap of making older stuff more important, and more powerful. So the First Hokage, who one might previously have imagined was important for being the founder and all, but possibly the weakest of the bunch, turned out to:
A) Have a super special type of tree jutsu so rare that Orochimaru, the initial big bad, tried to replicate it by messing with kids' DNA
B) Have the power to control the Tailed Beasts, which are the most destructive force in the known world. Better yet, he gave them to the other nations as a means of creating a deliberate balance of power
C) Have been so fucking powerful that he was once called the 'God of Shinobi', and this is affirmed with his rival being the only person who could even contest him, said rival basically curbstomping the shit out of everyone when he is brought back as an immortal zombie with infinite chakra.
So that which defined the Third Hokage, and gave us some sense of what the broad progression of the world was meant to be, is undone for the sake of a tired, narrative cliché where the older in time something/someone is, the more powerful it is compared to the present. I could go on - the retcons to the sharingan, the origins of chakra, the outright relationships of the characters prior to when we meet them, etc. Not even the opening scene is left untouched, and while the twist is kinda neat, it's wrapped up in so much other nonsense I think I'd prefer if it had still been, well, the equivalent of a natural disaster as it was initially presented.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Sooooo good
Imperfected
Member
Heh this is also kinda what happened to Halo
Yep. Though doesnt apply right because they changed "creators"
Bungie had a good story going with a lot of great background lore ripe for awesome stories. The forerunner conflict, the forerunner ai going rogue, etc. The forerunners in general. Were they human or not?
You could argue they fucked up some lore things with Reach but that was just a small snippet.
[What 343 did just jumped the shark. Halo 4, we land on a mysterious forerunner world after being adrift in space and are fighting the same aliens. Then we land on a new world and already have contact with UNSC forces.
We get in contact with an actual forerunner, there goes that mystery. We find out humans used to be space faring, oh cool. We find out another ancient forerunner planted secret dna magic shit in humanity so at some point the Spartan Program and Master Chief would be born, and cortana would be created. She activates his magic future blood so he is immune to a laser that digitizes life forms.
The only reason we are still fighting our (used to be) allied Elites is because its a sect where they still believe in their hokey religion.
Oh, and the episodic story content in Halo 4 about hunting down Jul Mdama, the leader of these forces? We went through an entire comic book series between Halo 4 and 5 about efforts to kill/stop him. Including a brief stint where the Halo 4 villain, the didact, comes back from the dead and then gets killed again.
First mission of Halo 5 we kill that guy in some nonchalant cutscene.
Halo 5's story was a little better in terms of plot but the story telling was god awful.
The only reason we are still fighting our (used to be) allied Elites is because its a sect where they still believe in their hokey religion.
Oh, and the episodic story content in Halo 4 about hunting down Jul Mdama, the leader of these forces? We went through an entire comic book series between Halo 4 and 5 about efforts to kill/stop him. Including a brief stint where the Halo 4 villain, the didact, comes back from the dead and then gets killed again.
First mission of Halo 5 we kill that guy in some nonchalant cutscene.
Halo 5's story was a little better in terms of plot but the story telling was god awful.
Fancyarcher
Member
It's "too far" gone for a third Warcraft at this point I'd say, so yeah.
Bob Coffee
Member
You mean it should have ended post cell games. Buu is when shit jumped the shark.
m_shortpants
Member
Avatar and Korra
they could retcon it all in wow by having the inevitable sargeras battle basically unmake existence or something, but yeah the current lore is just untenable
Nahhhhh son. Android and Cell sagas were a mess. Trunks single handedly ruined the mystique and power of SSJ. What was only just recently a legendary state of unimaginable power became completely pedestrian. And the whole Frieza and King Cold thing was beyond stupid. Taking the ultimate evil in the universe and turning him into a complete punk. It was hype as shit but terrible for the overall series. Then by the end we have SSJ 2 and other nonsense.
Buu Saga just went full crazy, but the seeds were planted and took root during Cell.
i mean i think zenkai boosts in the frieza saga already kind of ruined the concept of the fighting and relative power levels but yeah....stuff got pretty wacky
I think it was a *gasp* interesting inclusion, because it really illustrated the Empire's suppression of science and education. The fact that Mitochlorians "didn't even exist" until we got a prequel set in the Republic years isn't a retcon imo. It's similar to how Jedi went from basically the Galaxy Police to mythic figures that most think are fairy tales in 18 years, a massive disinformation and truth suppression campaign from Emperor Trump... err I mean Palpatine lol
I'm watching all of Dragon Ball right now, starting with original series, subbed. The Red Ribbon Army just showed up.
When you think about long that series ran it could have ended many times. Hell, it could have ended after they summoned Shen Long the first time.
It's kind of a miracle that he got as far as Frieza before shit started to get repetitive and stupid.
they are, but i see them less as an extension of the franchise and more as a big fucking stupid unfunny joke made at the expense of fans in order to get money
which makes me hate anno but also kind of respect the hustle at the same time
TheGameshark
Member
Yup and I also thought the introduction of spartan 4's ruined a lot of the mystique and importance of the Master Chief.