Can summary link me too, or provide a recap, of what's happening with the Eldar? TBH I'm more interested in them than the Primarchs, and it sounds like they are doing the same with them as they did in WFB and merging them back into one race? Also was Eldrad just a complete retcon?
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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War
- Thread starter GarthVaderUK
- Start date
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Here is what the person who read it said.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717304.page
TheVoidDragon
Member
The way these new events all fit within the timeline seems a bit strange. Do all these events take place in a specific year? If so that seems a very short time for all these things to suddenly happen.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I would expect it starts around the same time as each other, with the Eldar story starting earlier but then picks ups where Fall of Cadia ends.
manfestival
Member
so who will be coming back next as far as loyalists? It would be super easy for Rogal Dorn to come back considering he has been in hiding and only assumed as dead. I would also venture to say that the Lion would also be extremely interested considering he is a traitor anyways
TheVoidDragon
Member
Why would you think they're bringing the others back as well?
It's Reyn Time!
Member
They could always expand on this theory about the Sanguinor:
Have the Blood Angels suffer some kind of terrible defeat and power up the Sanguinor to Primarch levels. That'd be one roundabout way to get Sanguinius on the table without cheesing it and bringing him back from the dead I suppose.
SillyEskimo
Member
I could see Russ coming back soon too since a Magnus miniature is out on tabletops. If GW does bring another primarch back, I would hope for one that would play well in the lore and create interesting scenarios with Mr. Ultramarine. Russ's exact opposite approach of Codex thinking would be fun to see the two of them arguing over in 41k. I also think he would be a safe and popular bet vs someone like a Salamander or White Scars primarch popping up. Unless GW wanted to release a whole mini army around them, ala Thousand Sons of course. Which I would welcome with open arms (and wallet).
And good ol' Sanguinus is dead as shit. He ain't coming back. He'll get a forge world 30k model though.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Russ said he wasn't coming back until the very end, though. He didn't even come back for the Beast.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
With the human population of the Fenris system about to be purged (and with it any chance of the Space Wolves replacing their losses) things aren't looking great for them as it is, their end times may be sooner than we think.
Besides I can't see Russ returning from the ten thousand years of kicking the faces off demons and traitors in the Eye of Terror only to discuss codex rules. I'd honestly be surprised if he's much more than a horrifying (to their enemies) slathering berserker by the time he shows up and leads the Wolves through their final battle.
Besides I can't see Russ returning from the ten thousand years of kicking the faces off demons and traitors in the Eye of Terror only to discuss codex rules. I'd honestly be surprised if he's much more than a horrifying (to their enemies) slathering berserker by the time he shows up and leads the Wolves through their final battle.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Slaanesh is still there in AoS, though.
SillyEskimo
Member
Well, I didn't imply they would sit down over tea and discuss lol. Rather, the conflict between their differences would develop organically, likely during battle. It's weird having to explain that, lol.
As for bringing Russ back, the lore is purposefully vague and can easily be clarified to justify his return. The fracture of Biel-Tan had a cannon way of basically having the Rhana Dandra (End of Days) event with the battle in the webway but it wasn't actually the "real" event. GW could easily do something similar with Russ coming back to save Fenris or something equally important.
You'd figure he'd come back for Wrath of Magnus, instead of just being seen as a hallucination by one of the furries. Now the Fenris system is a ruin and Fenris itself is cursed and a majority of its population herded to death camps.
SillyEskimo
Member
It's gotta get worse before it gets better!
TheVoidDragon
Member
Can anyone tell me what colour Skavenblight Dinge actually is? From the pictures online i can't tell if it's a grey, or a brown, or a lighter black.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
It's a dark, muddy greyish brown. I use it for a layer of dirt on the bottom of buildings.
Edit: ignore me, I'm talking absolute shite, it's a dark grey, it's the colour I use for ruins themselves. This tutorial should give you a good idea of what colour it is.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Anyone know anywhere cheaper than Darksphere to orders stuff in the UK? Prices there are good but just wondering if there's a site that's even better.
Dictator93
Member
TheVoidDragon
Member
They're actually more expensive!
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Dark Sphere looks pretty competitive on price, can't think of anywhere cheaper really! Now I feel a Necron purchase coming on, lol.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Yeah darksphere's about as cheap as it gets, they'be been really reliable when I've ordered from them too.
Cosmic Schwung
Member
Yeah, nobody's going to give better than 25% off, the margins are too small. Triple Helix give cheaper postage but it's only a few quid savings.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Downside of Triple Helix IMO is it can take a while to receive your order, and every time I've ordered something with them they seem to have to order it in from their supplier first. I prefer when stores list their quantity in stock, which Dark Sphere appears to do (both webstore and in-store quantities!) 
TheVoidDragon
Member
£4 postage at Triple Helix for second class, whereas Darksphere shows £3.80 tracked delivery for me.
Cosmic Schwung
Member
I've only ever made big orders so I'm guessing Dark Sphere scale their postage costs. They've always charged me between £8-10. Triple Helix just gives a list of options, the lowest of which is £4 for second, although they still send it tracked for a big order. Of course if you can make it to DS's store then it's a no brainer. If I'm heading to London I usually put together an order.
All the stores I've used have been good with the exception of Total Wargamer. They were so bad GW stopped supplying them.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Apparently, this is a new game.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/515980/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/515980/
TB didn't really like it. If you want something similar in style, the Armageddon game is better.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
This came from Dakkadakka. A leak from the new Horus Heresy book from Forge World.
It seems like that from the looks of it.
It seems like that from the looks of it.
This came from Dakkadakka. A leak from the new Horus Heresy book from Forge World.
It seems like that from the looks of it.
Im desperate to get a run of these books (i've only got book 1) but eBay is not really getting me anywhere - is there some other site where people list stuff like this?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Check if a local game store can order it. If that doesn't work then I have no idea.
Are you looking to get them cheaper or something? FW still sells all of them, but I understand if you don't want to pay their prices.
Just re-reading all the Horus Heresy lore, and I am constantly reminded of how utterly awful the Emperor is. Even ignoring his constant stupidity, the grand crusade and setting up of the imperium was one of the most genocidal, evil acts ever. His grand crusade murdered countless species, including those like the Diasporex where humanity was working with aliens and just wanted to be left alone who had nothing to do with chaos, or any other evil threat. Yet they genocided them.
The guy wa just plain evil, in a comically Hitler like fashion. None of his plans made sense, his actions were unbelievably hypocritical, and he brought about the deaths of trillions of sentient beings for no purpose and condemned humanity to 10,000 years of ignorance and barbarism. He used science and warp techniques he forbade others to use to create biological weapons of war that he expected to instantly kneel before him and then lead armies in his name.
Is there any part of the story around the emperor, any part at all, that shows anything he did to be good or not be the most evil possible way of accomplishing his goals?
The guy wa just plain evil, in a comically Hitler like fashion. None of his plans made sense, his actions were unbelievably hypocritical, and he brought about the deaths of trillions of sentient beings for no purpose and condemned humanity to 10,000 years of ignorance and barbarism. He used science and warp techniques he forbade others to use to create biological weapons of war that he expected to instantly kneel before him and then lead armies in his name.
Is there any part of the story around the emperor, any part at all, that shows anything he did to be good or not be the most evil possible way of accomplishing his goals?
SillyEskimo
Member
The Emperor works in mysterious ways. Your place is not to question his ultimate wisdom.
On a tangent, is there any evidence to say that humanity created the other three chaos gods? I've seen it mentioned in a few places on the lexicon, but that doesn't seem to make any sense time wise (nor with the after effects of slaaneshs birth). I always assumed they were created well before humanity even evolved into apes, through the emotions of other sentient species, and that they didn't result in an Eye of Terror situation because it was a longer process (or that maybe some of the smaller warp rifts are remnants of those births).
Nurgle is described as the oldest chaos god as he arose out of the first deaths, and that doesn't fit with humanity at all time wise. Given the timescale between the war in heaven (60million years ago) and the rise of the eldar (20 or so thousand years ago) there's tons of time for other races to rise up, create a chaos god and then die out.
Nurgle is described as the oldest chaos god as he arose out of the first deaths, and that doesn't fit with humanity at all time wise. Given the timescale between the war in heaven (60million years ago) and the rise of the eldar (20 or so thousand years ago) there's tons of time for other races to rise up, create a chaos god and then die out.
Dictator93
Member
Beyond the obvious evils of the genocide in the crusade, I think the whole idea with the emperor is that his origins and life (all tens of thousands of years of it) makes him take the long-view, which means doing tons of terrible shit for the nth degree goal.
Presumably his foresight allowed him to only see one way to deal with chaos for good, and it was extremely authoritarian and violent: a methodology for problem solving which he probably learned by witnessing tons of violence in his life-span and/or seeing how peaceful means are often overwhelmed by chaos' corruption / disregard for non-violence.
The Emperor has dealt with psykers and chaos in a variety of forms that are not present at all in the 30K or even 40k eras, and those experiences shaped his pretty messed up world-view with how deal with stuff.
Presumably his foresight allowed him to only see one way to deal with chaos for good, and it was extremely authoritarian and violent: a methodology for problem solving which he probably learned by witnessing tons of violence in his life-span and/or seeing how peaceful means are often overwhelmed by chaos' corruption / disregard for non-violence.
The Emperor has dealt with psykers and chaos in a variety of forms that are not present at all in the 30K or even 40k eras, and those experiences shaped his pretty messed up world-view with how deal with stuff.
Not that the timeline makes much sense anyways. At the same time as the Eldar are supposed to be the single superpower of the galaxy, totally unquestionable in their migjt, it's also supposed to be Humanity's first stellar empire which spread across the entire galaxy using technology and AI. The timings don't make sense - I've always felt it was a retcon to outline the Fall of the Eldar as being responsible for the warp storms shutting off earth and letting the first human federation to collapse. It makes far more sense for the Eldar to have fallen well before humanity arose, filling the empty space. Rather than the rather strange setting where we have two galaxy spanning empires, both at the height of their power, neither of
whom seems to have encountered the other at all or had any interaction.
whom seems to have encountered the other at all or had any interaction.
It's some really old lore that they came to be because of humanity. I think the new version is that they became conscious during M2 or so. But yeah, the timeline really doesn't make too much sense, with the War in Heaven happening 60 million years ago.
The galaxy is a big place. Humanity was too busy expanding to the unoccupied places and the Eldar were having too many orgies to take notice of what they thought as an inferior race. They had some contact, but mostly were content to leave each other alone.
That doesn't really work with the descriptions of those empires though. The human stellar empire was greater and more powerful than the imperium at its height, and spread far further than the current astronomicon range over millions of worlds. Similarly, the Eldar at the height of their power were creating artificial worlds, terraforming maiden worlds across the galaxy, and generally acting as gods. There's no way the human empire would have been ignored and allowed to spread all over the galaxy like they did - the Eldar would have swatted them out of hand. You don't have two all powerful galactic empires comprising of millions of worlds going about their business not interacting at all. It would be weird beyond belief to think the Eldar just let humanity spread over the entire galaxy like they did.
(Timeline issue also comes up with the orks - they were supposedly created by the old ones as part of the war in heaven, yet in 60 million years since haven't engulfed the galaxy in green? Presumably the Eldar empire, and whatever other support powers arose and died in that 60 million year gap, kept them in check?)
I also wonder whether the current state of affairs with the warp is temporary - if we're still seeing the aftershock of the birth of slaanesh. For the vast majority of history the warp was a non-hostile place accessible and useable by sentient races despite the original three chaos gods being there. Maybe the current madness and power level is a temporary state of affairs and the warp will slowly coalesce back to its calm, safe state over time? (As presumably it did when the other chaos gods formed).
(Timeline issue also comes up with the orks - they were supposedly created by the old ones as part of the war in heaven, yet in 60 million years since haven't engulfed the galaxy in green? Presumably the Eldar empire, and whatever other support powers arose and died in that 60 million year gap, kept them in check?)
I also wonder whether the current state of affairs with the warp is temporary - if we're still seeing the aftershock of the birth of slaanesh. For the vast majority of history the warp was a non-hostile place accessible and useable by sentient races despite the original three chaos gods being there. Maybe the current madness and power level is a temporary state of affairs and the warp will slowly coalesce back to its calm, safe state over time? (As presumably it did when the other chaos gods formed).
There are an estimated 100 000 million star systems in the Milky Way. The Imperium claims to control a million worlds. There really is enough space for both empires to coexist as there are no hard borders to violate. Everyone just goes past the others systems. And the Eldar didn't really care about some about some monkeys colonizing a few worlds as long as they kept out of their systems. They had murder orgies to occupy their minds. And the human empire/federation had no reason to go to war with them as they were far more trusting than the Imperium.
And yes, the effects of Slaaneshs birth are long gone. This is the Warp in its "normal" state (after the Old Ones fucked everything up anyway). The Warp storms from around M25 to M30 were the birth pains of Slaanesh. And once (s)he burst out to unreality, the Warp calmed.
I'm aware of the vast number of stars, but the number of stars with habitable worlds is a lot smaller than that - and even if they aren't competitive over colonisable worlds, I just don't see how humanity spreads all over the galaxy as it did without ever once coming into conflict with the all powerful eldar empire who were literally acting as gods at the time. Plus if the eldar were so in need of places to settle they were creating artificial terroformed gaia class worlds it would seem really odd that they never once crossed paths with humanity. Obviously it's a made upsetting so anything can be excused, but it just seems utterly illogical to me personally than these two things could co-exist (especially when humanity threatens the safety of the galaxy with the AI revolution).
Re the current state of affairs, my point was that the current state is entirely unnatural. For basically all of recorded history the warp wasn't like this. It only became like this when Slaanesh was borne, a mere 15,000 years ago. Compared to the 60million years+ we have of the warp not behaving or acting in this way, and it does raise the question of whether in the long term it might settleback down again and we're still in a temporary unstable era. 15,000 years is nothing in the greater timescales, and given that the other three chaos gods presumably arose, caused chaos and then slowly died back down suggests that the warp may at some point go back to what it was.
(After all, the galaxy has always been full of war and plotting and death and yet the other three chaos gods were clearly far more restricted than they are now in terms of what they can and can't do in the galaxy). It's just my personal musings, and maybe Slaanesh's birth was a 'tipping point' event that (alongside the heresy) permanently altered how the warp works.
Re the current state of affairs, my point was that the current state is entirely unnatural. For basically all of recorded history the warp wasn't like this. It only became like this when Slaanesh was borne, a mere 15,000 years ago. Compared to the 60million years+ we have of the warp not behaving or acting in this way, and it does raise the question of whether in the long term it might settleback down again and we're still in a temporary unstable era. 15,000 years is nothing in the greater timescales, and given that the other three chaos gods presumably arose, caused chaos and then slowly died back down suggests that the warp may at some point go back to what it was.
(After all, the galaxy has always been full of war and plotting and death and yet the other three chaos gods were clearly far more restricted than they are now in terms of what they can and can't do in the galaxy). It's just my personal musings, and maybe Slaanesh's birth was a 'tipping point' event that (alongside the heresy) permanently altered how the warp works.
I fear both of us will just repeat ourselves on why the Eldar didn't squash humans during the DAoT, so I'll just drop it. (and honestly, they couldn't care less if the mon'keigh killed themselves with an AI revolution, they'd just have to clean up afterwards)
The Warp was permanently altered during the War in Heaven, when the Old Ones weaponized it. It has been a hellscape ever since. It is theorized that the other three Chaos gods coalesced more gradually so there was no great upheaval, whereas the Eldar spawned Slaanesh within maybe 5 000 - 10 000 years which dumped so much emotion to the Warp that it roiled and upheaved.
The Warp was permanently altered during the War in Heaven, when the Old Ones weaponized it. It has been a hellscape ever since. It is theorized that the other three Chaos gods coalesced more gradually so there was no great upheaval, whereas the Eldar spawned Slaanesh within maybe 5 000 - 10 000 years which dumped so much emotion to the Warp that it roiled and upheaved.
Yep, we'll just have to disagree on the empires co-existing thing.
Re the warp pre Slaanesh, the problem is it wasn't that hellish landscape. Firstly, we know the eldar were able to go into it practically at will - when they died, they just reincarnated after their souls went into the warp. Secondly, warp travel was safe and not at all the dangerous, Event Horizon esq issue it is now. Humanity travelled the entir galaxy using warp drives without the need of the Astromicon or the Emperor, and did it safely and without ever encountering hordes of demons or the chaos gods. Thirdly, there weren't demons and chaos gods manipulating the universe for their own event - the eldar didn't even know of the original three chaos gods at the height of their power. Clearly, they were there, and maybe they didn't coalesce in the same dramatic way Slaanesh did - but they were clearly also far weaker than they are now, and the warp was a far safer place. Even the original lore about the emperor claims that he was borne in response to the growing darkness in the warp that was to come in the future, not because the warp was already a hellscape. Everything in the lore suggests that pre-Slaanesh, the warp was far safer and the chaos gods far less powerful than they are now, and that post Slaanesh things changed. Whether that's temporary or a permanent result seems up in the air, but the fact it changed doesn't seem to be.
The Eldar really managed to screw the pooch with that one...
Re the warp pre Slaanesh, the problem is it wasn't that hellish landscape. Firstly, we know the eldar were able to go into it practically at will - when they died, they just reincarnated after their souls went into the warp. Secondly, warp travel was safe and not at all the dangerous, Event Horizon esq issue it is now. Humanity travelled the entir galaxy using warp drives without the need of the Astromicon or the Emperor, and did it safely and without ever encountering hordes of demons or the chaos gods. Thirdly, there weren't demons and chaos gods manipulating the universe for their own event - the eldar didn't even know of the original three chaos gods at the height of their power. Clearly, they were there, and maybe they didn't coalesce in the same dramatic way Slaanesh did - but they were clearly also far weaker than they are now, and the warp was a far safer place. Even the original lore about the emperor claims that he was borne in response to the growing darkness in the warp that was to come in the future, not because the warp was already a hellscape. Everything in the lore suggests that pre-Slaanesh, the warp was far safer and the chaos gods far less powerful than they are now, and that post Slaanesh things changed. Whether that's temporary or a permanent result seems up in the air, but the fact it changed doesn't seem to be.
The Eldar really managed to screw the pooch with that one...
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Wasn't that one of the reasons that the Emperor was making the Imperial Webway in the first place?
Yes but that's post Slaanesh.
In terms of geller fields, regardless of the state of the warp they seem to be necessary to travel through it. Even before the current state of affairs with demons and warp storms, it doesn't seem like humans can enter the warp unshielded and survive.
In terms of geller fields, regardless of the state of the warp they seem to be necessary to travel through it. Even before the current state of affairs with demons and warp storms, it doesn't seem like humans can enter the warp unshielded and survive.
Yeah even if they were £50 each, id pay £300 for the set then and i'd be fine with that.