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Best game to get into BioWare world?

L

LurkerPrime

Member
The thing about BG is that it is the one series Bioware's done where they get both the story and gameplay right. Comparatively, Neverwinter Nights/KotOR are mechanically underbaked and filled with compromises to make it work; Mass Effect straddles the line between RPG and shooter and constantly suffers for it; and Dragon Age is in a worse situation since its combat system keeps devolving with every sequel. And Jade Empire's gameplay? We don't talk about Jade Empire's gameplay.
Megalosaro said:
Neverwinter Nights is better than Baldurs Gate and Baldurs Gate 2

There, I said it.
Click to expand...

But Neverwinter Nights 2 is dramatically better than Neverwinter Nights 1 where it matters these days: OCs. The heyday of NWN1's multiplayer is a dream long dead, now; all that's really left are some creaky official campaigns.

Don't get me wrong, Deekin is great... but he is just one kobold in the face of many hours of mediocre campaign time.
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
bati said:
Low level AD&D is fucking shit. You can cast like 2 spells or use one of your abilities twice and then you have to whack things with a stick. And you have like 4-10 hp so every bear can wipe your party if you're not careful.
Click to expand...
Bows, crossbows, slings, darts.













BOWS, CROSSBOWS, SLINGS, DARTS.
 
H

Harken Raiser

Banned
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are what made them famous.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is their best game. Knights of the Old Republic 2 is even better, but it was made by a different company (Obsidian Entertainment) .
 
M

megalowho

Member
Should at least dabble in Baldur's Gate II to get a sense of what put them on the map for CRPG excellence.

Knights of the Old Republic nails the source material and delivers on stories/worlds/characters for the era. My pick if the dated elements are manageable, I think it holds up.

Mass Effect trilogy has some transcendent moments, especially in 1-2. It's an investment and there's cracks in the seams, but it's arguably their most impressive achievement in world building.

Dragon Age: Origins Has the BioWare DNA and promotes multiple playthroughs but would probably only suggest it over the others if dark fantasy RPG is that much more appealing than adventures in space.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
KotoR 1 and 2 (yes 2 is Obsidian, but it still needs to be played) are the best Star Wars games available. If you have love for the franchise them you owe it to yourself to play them.

LurkerPrime said:
The thing about BG is that it is the one series Bioware's done where they get both the story and gameplay right. Comparatively, Neverwinter Nights/KotOR are mechanically underbaked and filled with compromises to make it work; Mass Effect straddles the line between RPG and shooter and constantly suffers for it; and Dragon Age is in a worse situation since its combat system keeps devolving with every sequel. And Jade Empire's gameplay? We don't talk about Jade Empire's gameplay.
Click to expand...

Mass Effect doesn't "suffer for it", though.

Besides, it vastly improved when it began to move /away/ from the more traditional RPG stuff and became more of a shooter/action RPG.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Baldur's Gate 1 + 2, KOTOR (although KOTOR 2 by Obsidian is better), Jade Empire (I liked this but probably my least favourite game of theirs during this period). Neverwinter Knights (again NWN 2 by Obsidian is better), and the first Mass Effect game.

The first Mass Effect in 2007 was the last time Bioware made a good game and RPG in my opinion.

Baldur's Gate 2 is the best RPG ever made.
 
R

Rad-

Member
Baldur's Gate 2 is one of the greatest games ever made and their best game by far. KOTOR and Mass Effect 1+2 are also amazing. I'd say those are their best games but Dragon Age 1 and Baldur's Gate 1 were also good.

(Neverwinter Nights was great when it was first released (its multiplayer was super fun and diverse) but it's trash nowadays because it aged really badly)

Since OP is more of a JRPG fan then the best game to start with is either KOTOR or Dragon Age. They are a bit similar to FFXII gameplay wise.
 
R

RAWRferal

Member
KOTOR will never be topped for me, I thought the mass effect series would get there, but ultimately, it fell just short of this masterpiece.
 
W

Wulfram

Member
NWN was, and perhaps still is, great for the amount of player created mods it produced, but the official campaigns were only passable
 
L

LurkerPrime

Member
Zakalwe said:
Mass Effect doesn't "suffer for it", though.

Besides, it vastly improved when it began to move /away/ from the more traditional RPG stuff and became more of a shooter/action RPG.
Click to expand...

If you're grading them like pure action games, sure, I could see them as better (or, not suffering for it.) But as RPGs the sequels have only withered in comparison.

For a developer of renowned RPGs, it's rather disappointing for Bioware to go down that road. Now people call them "Bioware RPGs" because they're so markedly different from what one would expect from genuine RPGs.


Bioware's whole obsession with action has been their downfall, I think. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and KotOR were action-adapted systems of d20 (Dungeons & Dragons-esque) rulesets, Mass Effect was an "RPG shooter," I don't know what Jade Empire was trying to be, and Dragon Age harkens back to Baldur's Gate as a more action-y adaptation of the already action-adapted systems seen in BG. Then the decade of sequels they've worked on have further watered down things with action, leading to where they are today. (Ok, there's more to it than that, but I can't help but feel this contributed to them losing their focus.)
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Hmm.

I would say either of the following 3 are great entry points.

- Mass Effect
- Dragon Age: Origins
- Baldurs Date 2: Special Edition
 
butman

butman

Member
WOW this thread grew up.

1. I remembered trying DA Origins back in the day when it came out, but i hated that my party members being controlled by the AI. (like FF XV) It was very frustrating.
If i give it a shot again, there's a easy way or any tips to make them doing right decisions?

2. Which version of Baldur's Gate 2? Is the mobile version a good experience? I would like to play it on the go on my dead times.
 
S

Steez

Member
Baldur's Gate 2 is not only easily Bioware's best game, but arguably the best wRPG ever made. You don''t even really need to play BG1 to enjoy the sequel.

You can try the Enhanced Edition, saves you the (small) hassle of applying a few mods to make it run better on new systems, but you gotta suffer through the new content made by Beamdog.

But be aware, the game uses the AD&D ruleset, which makes it a bit hard to get into for people unfamiliar with the system.

Dragon Age: Origins is basically an inferior BG2 in every department, but way more accessible. Still a cool game though.
 
R

Rad-

Member
butman said:
WOW this thread grew up.

1. I remembered trying DA Origins back in the day when it came out, but i hated that my party members being controlled by the AI. (like FF XV) It was very frustrating.
If i give it a shot again, there's a easy way or any tips to make them doing right decisions?

2. Which version of Baldur's Gate 2? Is the mobile version a good experience? I would like to play it on the go on my dead times.
Click to expand...

PC version is really the way to go. I recommend the original PC version because it has a pretty good mod community but if you don't care for mods then Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition works as well.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Pick one, they are all good.

Baldur's Gate is fantastic if you like that old school RPG stuff. Mass Effect trilogy if you are looking for something more modern.

Dragon Age 1 if you want something that dances around the old school and modern line.

And, you can't go wrong with KOTOR if you like SW.
 
T

Taruranto

Member
djtiesto said:
Is it required to play BG1 before 2? I haven't really been into the Bioware games I've played but BG2 is universally considered one of the top 3 western RPGs of all time so I do wanna give it a chance.
Click to expand...

It's a direct continuation with the same characters, but not really. You'll miss the references/continuity, but it's not worth sitting through BG1's tedium and BG2 takes place in a new area, with new villains, etc.
 
A

Arulan

Member
If you're looking for the one, it's Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn without a moment's hesitation. It's by far BioWare's best game, and one of the best RPGs of all time in its own right. The amount of quality content they managed to put into this game is unheard of today.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
LurkerPrime said:
If you're grading them like pure action games, sure, I could see them as better (or, not suffering for it.) But as RPGs the sequels have only withered in comparison.

For a developer of renowned RPGs, it's rather disappointing for Bioware to go down that road. Now people call them "Bioware RPGs" because they're so markedly different from what one would expect from genuine RPGs.


Bioware's whole obsession with action has been their downfall, I think. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and KotOR were action-adapted systems of d20 (Dungeons & Dragons-esque) rulesets, Mass Effect was an "RPG shooter," I don't know what Jade Empire was trying to be, and Dragon Age harkens back to Baldur's Gate as a more action-y adaptation of the already action-adapted systems seen in BG. Then the decade of sequels they've worked on have further watered down things with action, leading to where they are today. (Ok, there's more to it than that, but I can't help but feel this contributed to them losing their focus.)
Click to expand...

Their downfall? DAI was their most successful game ever and none of MEA's problems stem from being an action rpg. Get out of your own dream reality.
 
T

thepenguin55

Member
Something to keep in mind with Mass Effect is that you'll want to get most (if not all) of the story dlc for each game which will increase the cost of each game exponentially. I'm not trying to deter you from buying them as they're excellent games and those story add-ons are totally worth it but just wanted to make you aware of the hidden costs of buying those games.
 
butman

butman

Member
thepenguin55 said:
Something to keep in mind with Mass Effect is that you'll want to get most (if not all) of the story dlc for each game which will increase the cost of each game exponentially. I'm not trying to deter you from buying them as they're excellent games and those story add-ons are totally worth it but just wanted to make you aware of the hidden costs of buying those games.
Click to expand...

Are the DLCs worth it/necessary for the experience? Or just plain filler?
 
K

Kerensky

Banned
I personally lost many hours on neverwinter night's custom modules and DM'ed sessions.

It was fun to play for the 'fluff', but the 'crunch' was flawed when they decided to have a class that pivoted around temporary str. buffs and then making it hit the (very) low ability ceiling, making it the weakest martial class of all, losing even to druids.

BG2 have a nice little story to it, but it exposed the flaw that D&D games had at their foundation, which is the lack of a DM to adapt the game to meet the challenge of the players.
 
bati

bati

Member
butman said:
Are the DLCs worth it/necessary for the experience? Or just plain filler?
Click to expand...

They're great, especially for ME2. Most of the DLCs for the trilogy integrate into campaigns for their respective games but there are some that are just weapons/cosmetics, you can safely skip those.
 
J

jtb

Banned
KOTOR. Go play it on mobile. Great, easily digestible game.

BG2 great too, obviously, but a little less accessible.
 
D

DrD

Member
Baldur's Gate 2 isn't just Bioware's best game but arguably the best RPG of all time as well. It sucks that they aren't selling BG2 Complete separately anymore since the Enhanced Edition is like double the price of what Complete was.
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
butman said:
Are the DLCs worth it/necessary for the experience? Or just plain filler?
Click to expand...

Some of the DLC. Most Notably ME2's Lair of the Shadowbroker and ME3s From Ashes are 100% essential. Although almost all of ME3s DLC can be considered highly recomended for a complete experience
 
G

gillty

Banned
Dragon Age: Origins
and Inquisition too.
Knights of The Old Republic 2
by Obsidian Entertainment.
Mass Effect 1 & 2
, but please do not play 3.

The best of all BioWare games:

The Witcher
, well it is Aurora Engine :)
 
T

thepenguin55

Member
butman said:
Are the DLCs worth it/necessary for the experience? Or just plain filler?
Click to expand...

A little from Column A and Column B but even some of the filler add-ons are actually great. Here's a breakdown of add-ons I think you should buy (the Mass Effect Trilogy collection comes with some of this dlc depending on which version you buy; on PC some of this content may require logging into Bioware's site to acquire it):

Mass Effect DLC
-Bring Down the Sky; Save this for after the main story is complete. It's not really important to the main story but it adds a lot in terms of world building and is pretty good

Mass Effect 2 DLC
-Zaeed: The Price of Revenge; this should come with every version of ME2 but if you buy the 360 version used you might miss out on this. Not story essential but I'll always recommend getting dlc that adds a new squadmate
-Kasumi: Stolen Memory; This is a fun mission that nets you squadmate Kasumi and a formal outfit.
-Lair of the Shadow Broker; A must own add-on. it's a great add-on
-Overlord; This is a not fun to play add-on with a great (though mostly unimportant) story to it
-Arrival; Story important dlc. This bridges the gap between ME2 & ME3. Also, definitely install this mod if you buy this on PC: http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/12/?
-ME2: Genesis; It's a little expensive but I would suggest this add-on if you intend to skip playing ME1 as this is a digital comic that covers the events of ME1. ME1's gameplay is pretty clunky at this point (and it never really played well on a controller), so skipping ME1 isn't unreasonable but it has a great story. I'd give ME1 a shot before resorting to buying this ME2 add-on

Mass Effect 3 DLC
-Extended Cut Ending; A free must own add-on
-From Ashes; A must buy. This is a fun mission that nets you a new squadmate, 1 new assault rifle, war assets and 6 new squadmate outfits. This character is fantastic and adds so much to the story of the game
-Leviathan; A must buy. It's a mediocre mission that's very important to the overarching story and you get 1 assault rifle, 1 shotgun, 5 weapon mods and 11 war assets.
-Citadel; A must buy. There's 3 major parts to this dlc. The first part is the mission part which I personally think is mostly awful. It's fanservicey to the point of canon breaking (which is intentional) and the mission just isn't all that fun to play either. You'll want to complete the mission immediately to get it out of the way and to unlock the second part of the add-on. The 2nd part of the add-on is a new Citadel hub. This is also loaded with fan service but in a good way. Do as much as possible in this hub. Buying a specific item in this hub will activate the 3rd part of this add-on. Do not buy this specific item until late in the game. There will be a moment where you'll sense if you progress any further with the main story you'll trigger a point of no return scenario. You want to buy the item that activates the 3rd part of the add-on right before this point of no return. Trust me. Things you'll unlock for completing this are 2 weapons, 3 armor sets, 7 weapon mods and 2 war assets)

I would complete all ME3 dlc as soon as they become available in the game for the most part. There's various weapon and multiplayer dlc that are fine too. Also, I highly recommend checking out Nexus mods for these games if you get them on PC.
 
butman

butman

Member
thepenguin55 said:
A little from Column A and Column B but even some of the filler add-ons are actually great. Here's a breakdown of add-ons I think you should buy (the Mass Effect Trilogy collection comes with some of this dlc depending on which version you buy; on PC some of this content may require logging into Bioware's site to acquire it):

Mass Effect DLC
-Bring Down the Sky; Save this for after the main story is complete. It's not really important to the main story but it adds a lot in terms of world building and is pretty good

Mass Effect 2 DLC
-Zaeed: The Price of Revenge; this should come with every version of ME2 but if you buy the 360 version used you might miss out on this. Not story essential but I'll always recommend getting dlc that adds a new squadmate
-Kasumi: Stolen Memory; This is a fun mission that nets you squadmate Kasumi and a formal outfit.
-Lair of the Shadow Broker; A must own add-on. it's a great add-on
-Overlord; This is a not fun to play add-on with a great (though mostly unimportant) story to it
-Arrival; Story important dlc. This bridges the gap between ME2 & ME3. Also, definitely install this mod if you buy this on PC: http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/12/?
-ME2: Genesis; It's a little expensive but I would suggest this add-on if you intend to skip playing ME1 as this is a digital comic that covers the events of ME1. ME1's gameplay is pretty clunky at this point (and it never really played well on a controller), so skipping ME1 isn't unreasonable but it has a great story. I'd give ME1 a shot before resorting to buying this ME2 add-on

Mass Effect 3 DLC
-Extended Cut Ending; A free must own add-on
-From Ashes; A must buy. This is a fun mission that nets you a new squadmate, 1 new assault rifle, war assets and 6 new squadmate outfits. This character is fantastic and adds so much to the story of the game
-Leviathan; A must buy. It's a mediocre mission that's very important to the overarching story and you get 1 assault rifle, 1 shotgun, 5 weapon mods and 11 war assets.
-Citadel; A must buy. There's 3 major parts to this dlc. The first part is the mission part which I personally think is mostly awful. It's fanservicey to the point of canon breaking (which is intentional) and the mission just isn't all that fun to play either. You'll want to complete the mission immediately to get it out of the way and to unlock the second part of the add-on. The 2nd part of the add-on is a new Citadel hub. This is also loaded with fan service but in a good way. Do as much as possible in this hub. Buying a specific item in this hub will activate the 3rd part of this add-on. Do not buy this specific item until late in the game. There will be a moment where you'll sense if you progress any further with the main story you'll trigger a point of no return scenario. You want to buy the item that activates the 3rd part of the add-on right before this point of no return. Trust me. Things you'll unlock for completing this are 2 weapons, 3 armor sets, 7 weapon mods and 2 war assets)

I would complete all ME3 dlc as soon as they become available in the game for the most part. There's various weapon and multiplayer dlc that are fine too. Also, I highly recommend checking out Nexus mods for these games if you get them on PC.
Click to expand...

I'm planning to get the PS3 Trilogy. Is a good version? Because i rather to play in a console.
Also It includes all the DLCs that you say?

mass_effect_trilogy-2106652.jpg
Click to expand...
 
T

thepenguin55

Member
butman said:
I'm planning to get the PS3 Trilogy. Is a good version? Because i rather to play in a console.
Also It includes all the DLCs that you say?
Click to expand...

It doesn't include all the dlc but it does include most of the dlc (unlike the 360 and PC versions). The PS3 version of ME1 comes with both of that games add-ons and the PS3 version of ME2 comes with all of the dlc except Arrival (I would wait to install that add-on until you've completed the main story. Trust me). I believe the PS3 version of ME3 only comes with the Online Pass, the Extended Cut ending (which you need to download from the PS store) and some free multiplayer content (which you need to download from the PS store). Whatever ME3 story dlc you want you'll need to buy.

As for the quality of the PS3 trilogy, I feel like I remember it being mostly fine but I remember ME2 being really buggy. Not unplayable as I played through that version multiple times but you may want to look into that as I think there are workarounds to some of the issues. Just be sure to save often and you should be fine.
 
Garnox

Garnox

Member
From my experience, start with BG2 and play up to including ME2 as far as chronological game date releases (-2010)

ME2 was the last true, all around quality title Bioware made IMO and even with that game you can start to see a different Bioware.

So you're wanting to play that ONE title that encompasses all that is Bioware?... anything up to ME2.
 
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