royox
Member
That's a subjective opinion. I don't find it fun for example.
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Is Nintendo the master of Fighting games without complex inputs?
- Thread starter Stopdoor
- Start date
That's a subjective opinion. I don't find it fun for example.
It's been shown that kids are just naturally better at learning new concepts and materials until somebody tells them or they think they cant do it. Kids in general tends to have growth mindsets, a lot of people here in this thread complaining about complex controls have fixed mindsets in that if they think that they can't do it, so they don't do it.
Eh, I still think it's slightly more cumbersome in some respects. With a traditional QCF you can just walk forward then hit D,DF in one smooth, quick motion. When you double tap down you have to let the stick go to neutral position for a split second.
OP you are biased.
Smash may have the same inputs for everyone but their moves , specially up-B ( aka the third jump) is really different for everyone that if you play many characters you need to learn and remember the properties to be able to get back to the stage.
Everyone had at least one Self KO with Bayonetta because her jump order ir not the same as everyone else's.
The inputs in other games are not hard, maybe you are just lazy, the first you test in every fighting game is the hadouken and dragon punch motions, if you can't do that, then you are not actually looking for a fighting game
Smash may have the same inputs for everyone but their moves , specially up-B ( aka the third jump) is really different for everyone that if you play many characters you need to learn and remember the properties to be able to get back to the stage.
Everyone had at least one Self KO with Bayonetta because her jump order ir not the same as everyone else's.
The inputs in other games are not hard, maybe you are just lazy, the first you test in every fighting game is the hadouken and dragon punch motions, if you can't do that, then you are not actually looking for a fighting game
AquaWateria
Member
『Inaba Resident』;243853644 said:
Well they are quite wrong because ARMS is really fun to watch.
The last tournament for the game was extremely fun to watch especially seeing all the movements and different ARMS being used. It felt like two people dancing elegantly with how swift the movement options are especially with really skilled players.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I highly doubt either of those games threw the term "QCF" at you before showing you this motion or something similar to it
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
They meant you should use the quarter of your brain dedicated to basic thought processing
Professor Beef
Banned
thinking uhrts, i wanna do good NOW
I see this thread is doomed to repeat itself for another 8 pages. Goes to show, to have a successful thread on GAF you need a really flame-baity title, I guess.
Sure, QCF is simple, but it's dizzying the amount of variations between characters beyond that. It's the quantity of inputs to learn. Just something I find personally tiring. ARMS has much less variation by character and that's cool for me.
Well duh
Yes, I agree Smash Bros. does take some memorization if you want to play different characters, but not to the same degree. Since the inputs are the same, if you forget, you can get a grasp extremely quickly (except sure, the really gimmicky characters like Bayonetta).
I highly doubt either of those games threw the term "QCF" at you before showing you this motion or something similar to it
Dude, that image aggravates me. Just show me the actual button I have to press like Mortal Kombat, or let me toggle it, or something. Like enh, I guess being able to map the moves to actual in-game analogs that you should already memorize is useful, but looking at a move list it's just another annoying layer of abstraction when I'm already not that hyped to have to peruse the move list.
Anyway, again, that's just my standard personal complaint. Before I get jumped on.
...you press the punch button.
There are 3 of them and each one will give you the move.
Each button you push will have varying motion or power.
Oh yeah, that does sound familiar from when I put a little bit more time into SFIV. So you're right, not awful, but definitely just kind of annoyed me coming off Mortal Kombat which was extremely explicit.
Leafhopper
Banned
This is an actual lie if any game says QCF in a tutorial.
Are you actually just trolling now?
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
What is dizzying about QCF, HCF and SRK? If you're not counting charge inputs (which are easier than motion imo), then its a small amount of special inputs to learn. You're also likely going to be to doing those same 3 inputs in the opposite direction for some characters which still isn't hard to "learn".
Woo-Fu
Banned
Learning the inputs is the easy part. Learning the animations so you can see the tell for each attack and then responding appropriately in a matter of frames? That's the hard part. That's what separates the champions from the rest of us.
I don't think Nintendo is the master of any sort of fighting game sub-genre. If they did exhibit slightly less complex inputs I'd chalk it up to them having a younger target demographic.
I don't think Nintendo is the master of any sort of fighting game sub-genre. If they did exhibit slightly less complex inputs I'd chalk it up to them having a younger target demographic.
It does though. The top 3 buttons are always punches. The bottom three are kicks. This is true on stick and on pad because of the fact most games bind the buttons like a staircase. This isn't hard. The problem is you keep telling yourself you can't do it instead of actually doing a very simple task
I'd forgotten how Garou has homogenized QC inputs across all characters. This definitely encourages character swapping and casual playing, with some minor exceptions.
But shit like Rock's Deadly Rave and that command grab are quite difficult to pull off and are important options for the character, especially the latter.
But shit like Rock's Deadly Rave and that command grab are quite difficult to pull off and are important options for the character, especially the latter.
If you have ever tried playing a fighting game with a keyboard, those QCF motions can become pretty hard to pull off compared to even a controller D-pad. The diagonal inputs just don't register well in many cases. If you use the analog stick on a controller you face another issue where getting those corner taps consistently becomes harder because of the large motion of the stick. Arcade sticks with their limited stick motion help in that but doing straight left/right/up/down motions becomes a bit harder as you might hit a diagonal instead.
Some fighting games are also ridiculously precise about the timing. There's still several moves in e.g. DoA5 that even after watching videos of them on YouTube I can't pull off even in training mode because they just won't come out despite even the screen showing I did the correct motions. These were not some 3-part throw either but common special moves for a few characters. I guess that would be in the category of inputs that are too hard to put in for no good reason.
Will point out that isn't true. Smash 4 absolutely has footsies and it's not really a run up and shield type of game anymore, patches changed that.
This or put short hop on its own button.
YoungOcelot
Member
But smash isn't a fighting game.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Smash is a fighting game. It's just not a traditional fighting game
theclaw135
Banned
Smash has an interesting foundation, but we haven't seen a game designed around it.
Just disabling the gimmick items and stages isn't necessarily the same thing.
Personally I think Virtua Fighter one of the better models for what traditional fighting games should strive for.
Just disabling the gimmick items and stages isn't necessarily the same thing.
Personally I think Virtua Fighter one of the better models for what traditional fighting games should strive for.
Fun is subjective tho, I mean I love arms but I can see why some people don't find it appealing.
The Greek Freak
Member
No rising thunder was.
Arms is also bad.
Arms is also bad.
I never got this argument.
So let's have shooters aim for you. Racing games can speed you up and slow you down. RPGs will outfit you with the best gear and use the correct abilities on its own.
When you take out the SKILL portion of a game you are catering to a baby ass demographic that tends to fuck with SP content in a fighter once or twice, then bails out.
It needs to cater to casuals AND competitive minded folks, and honestly an input barrier only exists if you have a scrub mentality and suck at games period. If you haven't been able to do a shoryuken input consistently and have been playing games since the Super Nintendo area---that is YOUR fault and no one elses. It is not god damn rocket science.
One of the most popular franchises on Earth right now, Street Fighter 5, is constantly shit on because of them lowering the execution barrier, combo systems, etc to pander to casuals. In the end it didn't matter jack shit because casuals still found it too hard, didn't like the SP offerings, and in general didn't care to learn or stick with the game. Now what's left is a game that isn't even fun to watch or play for those who stick with a game to keep a scene alive and push the e-sports aspect of it.
I know I know, SF5 isn't dead, not even close, and still gathers the eyes of a lot of folks, but I would bet any money that if you compare this game using say Steam numbers of # of players at launch playing, to now, then compare that number to other fighters, then it is a really bad look.
Inputs in most popular fighting game franchises are not asking you to do a lot as a player, and it was games in the past that required super tight timing. Hell most Tekken 7 combos off a launcher can be mashed. There's no timing or strict input. That game has difficult movement to master, and other systems to learn along with lots of match ups to expose yourself to.
Execution and timing are like .02% of getting good at any fighters, so to dumb that down isn't going to make you suddenly be an Evo top 8 player or even close.
More in line with the OP's topic, yes Nintendo did a good job with Arms to not be difficult in execution, but still be a good game of rock paper scissors. Alas it does nothing for me as someone who enjoys fighting game franchises, but it deserves props.
Also the person who mentioned Rising Thunder is right in that game had it going on in how to make easy inputs, but still have a rewarding combo system and retain other great things about 2D fighters to actually make the game compelling to learn, play, and watch.