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theultimo · May 15, 2017

KojiKnight said:
Examples? This isn't the wild west of PC anymore, there aren't dozens of vendors for CPU and GPU and there aren't half a dozen competing standards for graphics libraries and the like.

The worst case scenario is you have some hardware that is generally not as optimized for and you get a bit worse performance... but it's very rare in this day and age that you have huge performance gaps for similarly priced hardware or hardware that simply will not work with games (unless you're using entry level data entry graphics/cpu trying to play the latest triple A)

It's mostly from driver or configuration issues, but you do have the odd intel gpu issues or amd or even nvidia in some cases with drivers or configuration.

For instance, nier has had white screen issues on specific and Pascal hardware. I'm not saying it's very common, but thinks can break. It's not a big deal or a workaround usually exists, but the stigma still remains.

Fredrik · May 15, 2017

345triangle said:
i love PC gaming but really this is just an insane statement.

Is it? Like I said, I haven't done any tinkering these 4 years, except swapping GPU which was surprisingly easy too. I've easily restarted my iPhone more times than my computer and iPhones are like super stable. It's always on, always updated, always ready whenever I want to game on it.

I guess you could say that I don't get the full benefit from PC gaming though since I don't overclock and try all kinds of drivers or whatever you can do. But I'm not interested in that.

disappeared · May 15, 2017

Because a large chunk of people who play games play them casually and want to do it with as little work as possible. As soon as you introduce the concepts of manually updating hardware and software - i.e. dedicated work - they tune right out. I worked at an EB for roughly five years and with all the different types of customers I saw there the amount of people I met who were dedicated enough to tinker with PCs in any capacity - be it simply adding a few mods or swapping out their GPUs on an annual basis - I could probably count on one hand. It's a scary market for those who just want to buy a game and have it work out the gate. It's why consoles are still as popular as they are; because you pop the disc in or download it off the store and boom, you're playing. It's why most PS4 owners still haven't upgraded to a Pro. The return on investment for some better resolution and lighting effects isn't there for the vast majority.

I'm not slamming PC gaming at all. I built my first ever rig all by myself back in 2004 solely to play Half-Life 2. It was a fantastic learning experience and I'm glad I got to dig into that part of this industry. But it is clearly not for most people.

Poimandres · May 15, 2017

For some people any tinkering = too much tinkering.

But yes, I think some people are in the dark about how straight forward PC gaming is most of the time. Still, it would be misleading to pretend that PC gaming is entirely hassle free every time.

JBwB · May 15, 2017

That may have been true in the past but these days it's actually pretty damn easy to get into.

Lima · May 15, 2017

Because I want to play Forza 6 Apex and it just crashes back to desktop after the T10 logo show. No error code, nothing. Most likely something fucked up with my Windows installation.

I just want shit to work.

Mohasus · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
Because you have to keep upgrading it if you want to play the newest games every year with the full benefits that PCs offer. Whether that's the graphics card or memory or monitor, every few years something falls behind and needs to be brought up to speed.

If you don't care about being able to play the best version of a game, in terms of resolution or frame rate, then you are better off buying it on console because 1) it's cheaper in the long run (can be sold back) and 2) you're more likely (basically guaranteed) to get a working copy on day 1 since developers prioritize making sure the console version of their game works 100% since that's where most of the sales come from.

And there are enough things that go wrong with PCs since they perform many other functions that there may not be tinkering for you but there is definitely tinkering for enough people to turn them off from the experience. Being on GAF, you are obviously in the 1% in terms of technical knowledge. The average person doesn't have your computer expertise, even for something simple like configuring Steam.

Took me a while to realize this was satire.

Alphahawk · May 15, 2017

chaosblade said:
This is making perfect the enemy of better. Components don't get worse with time, the ceiling just gets higher. If I have a PC that's more powerful than consoles, it's going to remain more powerful than consoles even if it isn't top of the line.

To be honest this "if I don't have the absolute top of the line PC parts I might as well just have a console" line of thought baffles me more than the stuff about "complicated drivers" and "hours of tinkering with settings." There's just no sensible logic behind it at all.

And I mean that'd be fine, if there was some easy way for layman to read "Recomended specs" section, but instead it's just a nightmare of cross referencing various charts to make sure that the graphics card I have is the equivalent of what the dev put.

Ploid 3.0 · May 15, 2017

You're pretty lucky then. When you go down that "is this game running as good as it can" hole, there's usually no going back. The good thing about a fixed system like PS4 or Xbox One is you don't have to worry about how to make the game run better, since it's not anything you can do usually. On PC it could be that you didn't edit the INI file, the xml file, the new hotfix drivers, roll back to the old drivers, the youtube video fix for stuttering that didn't work for you, the antivirus program needs an exception, you may need to restart after the new patch, maybe you have to exit rivatuner or whatever else could be using overlays. Check this, do that, oh you need to force Vsync with the gpu drivers on that game, oh it's AMD uh maybe try something else I'm not familiar with AMD. etc. etc.

I like PC, but you can't deny that it's not always straight forward and don't require some fiddling. Especially if you use things like Steam Controller, and Steam Link, or that Nvidia Shield. There are some games that I just gave up on because of unresolved issues with them. Sometimes when trying to figure out if it's the game or my system it's just that the game is badly done. These type of things force you to mess around to trouble shoot what could resolve issues.

wonderful103 · May 15, 2017

HashtagLapsed said:
I think part of it may be seeing the big PC threads for some games, not really knowing that you dont need to tinker on that level. It might seem like there are always issues that require work to fix. Of course, that is very rarely the case.

This. And old wives tales like the below posts that are eons out of date.

malfcn said:
Because plebs like me enjoy plugging in an hdmi cable and pressing power.

Good news everyone, PCs now come with HDMI ports and power buttons!

Chalupa Batman said:
Because you have to keep upgrading it if you want to play the newest games every year with the full benefits that PCs offer. Whether that's the graphics card or memory or monitor, every few years something falls behind and needs to be brought up to speed.

If you don't care about being able to play the best version of a game, in terms of resolution or frame rate, then you are better off buying it on console because 1) it's cheaper in the long run (can be sold back) and 2) you're more likely (basically guaranteed) to get a working copy on day 1 since developers prioritize making sure the console version of their game works 100% since that's where most of the sales come from.

And there are enough things that go wrong with PCs since they perform many other functions that there may not be tinkering for you but there is definitely tinkering for enough people to turn them off from the experience. Being on GAF, you are obviously in the 1% in terms of technical knowledge. The average person doesn't have your computer expertise, even for something simple like configuring Steam.

All of this is wrong. Like, seriously - all of it. It's not even remotely accurate, unless you're from the year 2007.

Edit: or my sarcasm detector is severely broken. Lol

duckroll · May 15, 2017

It's extremely easy to buy and set up a PC. Anyone can do it. It's also extremely easy to install Steam and just play games. Mostly. But the barrier remains that when something does go wrong, on the PC there is a much higher technical hurdle than just rebooting the console and launching the game again. There are a multitude more problems which could occur on the PC, with various different possible fixes. It doesn't help that some publishers continue to threat PC releases as third class citizens.

So I can see why people are still iffy about it.

Lima · May 15, 2017

LelouchZero said:
Console Gaming is substantially easier and more user friendly.

The setup process is short and intuitive, it also covers pretty much everything you need from the console.

If you don't know how to navigate and use a PC you're going to have a tough time, there are some help functions but they're nowhere near what makes using a console easy.

Most of the time the console is handling all of the updates for firmware and games by itself with minimal user intervention. There's also less options which make for a much more simpler and easier user experience, navigation is also very simple as you're just sliding through menus which are laid out in a simple and easy to understand way, like the Xbox One's OS:

There's also many people who aren't very computer/tech literate, consoles open up a simple and easy way to get into gaming. The thought of navigating a PC terrifies some people, and understanding system specifications can be daunting for some.
I've personally seen this mostly from mature individuals who may not have been exposed to much tech or computers but it's not only limited to those people.

Funny that you take a picture of the Xbox OS which many people even on here don't understand and describe it as user unfriendly and too cluttered.

Mushroomer25 · May 15, 2017

texhnolyze said:
Do people really still build their PC on their own these days?

I can go to the market right now, choose my favorite store, pick my desired parts, and let the store clerck build the PC for me.

I don't even have to touch the PC until I plug the cables and push the power button at home. Guess what, like a console.

The fact this is even a factor contributes to my point. Plenty of sites offer solid deals of building a machine, but you'll also hear a storm of opinions (from this very thread) that it is the easiest thing in the world. So should I pay the extra money to have somebody else build it for me, or should I save the money and risk a headache putting it together myself? Should I take the risk? Is there even a risk?

These are questions you are not going to ask yourself as you're picking a console up at Best Buy.

Strangelove77 · May 15, 2017

And as easy and hassle-free as that all sounds, consoles are even easier and even more hassle-free. That's really all there is to it.

Fredrik · May 15, 2017

Mechazawa said:
The reality of playing on a PC is that you're occasionally going to have to troubleshoot a game that doesn't work or doesn't work properly.

I wouldn't say it's difficult. If you can google, you can generally get along fine most of the time. But despite developers releasing broken games, it's still generally more of a crapshoot on PC than on console.

I haven't done any of that though. Everything has just worked. I heard lots of noise about crashing in No Man's Sky though, guess I got lucky or something became I had played over 100 hours before I experienced my first crash.

Renekton · May 15, 2017

DocSeuss said:
For the same reason people believe you eat like 8 spiders a year in your sleep.

Fredrik said:
Honestly, PC gaming could be sold with Apple's "It just works." slogan from my point of view.

Those who complain about how difficult PC gaming is simply cannot have used a modern PC with Steam.

terencecah said:
people are scared of what they don't know

Disxo said:
Well...
They say that stuff out of ignorance.
I would ignore it If I were you, but that circle jerk really brought a stigma to PC's.

Not trying to be agressive here.

Drillary Clinton said:
People have the misconception that you have to be an engineering major to know how to operate a gaming computer

You can go to GAF Tech Support thread, Steam community forums or GAF PC performance threads to help the posters out with their PC issues.

Backlogger · May 15, 2017

People that don't like PC gaming just need to be honest and admit they want to keep their porn and gaming on separate devices.

xxracerxx · May 15, 2017

Strangelove77 said:
And as easy and hassle-free as that all sounds, consoles are even easier and even more hassle-free. That's really all there is to it.

Bingo bango!

milkham · May 15, 2017

KojiKnight said:
Examples? This isn't the wild west of PC anymore, there aren't dozens of vendors for CPU and GPU and there aren't half a dozen competing standards for graphics libraries and the like.

I was helping someone put together an nvidia/intel sli rig about 2 years ago and we couldn't get it to post. spent a couple hours trying different permutations of ram slots and video cards, took the whole thing apart and put it back together again with no result. turns out the motherboard needed a bios update to post with the video cards he had. He ended up going to best buy the next day to buy a third card just to update the bios with.

Personally, I'm currently having a problem that I think is a power supply issue but I'm not 100% sure and won't be able to test it until I just buy another one.

I think people are overstating the case on both sides of the argument. PC gaming isn't always a pain in the ass, but it can be.

Huge Succeeded · May 15, 2017

Strangelove77 said:
And as easy and hassle-free as that all sounds, consoles are even easier and even more hassle-free. That's really all there is to it.

perception-wise too. I mean obviously lol. A console is a box that you take out of its box and plug into your TV and BAM you're Playstationing right now (with some stipulations, of course - none of which are egregious enough to even mention here, I can concede that as a PC gamer).
Most people don't see PCs that way.

alr1ght · May 15, 2017

It's like comparing putting a cart in a SNES, flipping the power switch and playing within seconds, and setting up a SNES emulator and booting the same game. Both easy, but one is infinitely easier and impossible to screw up.

Spyderist · May 15, 2017

You have to troubleshoot and think logically when building up the machine and whenever things go wrong, and be willing to buy new parts to check what's fucked. These things are completely above and beyond a typical consumer who just wants to plug a device into an outlet.

Gxgear · May 15, 2017

Because it is to most consumers.

chaosblade · May 15, 2017

Strangelove77 said:
And as easy and hassle-free as that all sounds, consoles are even easier and even more hassle-free. That's really all there is to it.

I feel like this is a tradeoff though. On PC if you have a problem there is usually some sort of fix for it. On console if you have a problem, you are fucked until the console maker or developer/publisher fix it.

Troubleshooting or shit developer/publisher support *coughSquareEnixcough* is definitely a problem on PC, but it's far from the majority of the experience.

Maximo · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
Because you have to keep upgrading it if you want to play the newest games every year with the full benefits that PCs offer. Whether that's the graphics card or memory or monitor, every few years something falls behind and needs to be brought up to speed.

If you don't care about being able to play the best version of a game, in terms of resolution or frame rate, then you are better off buying it on console because 1) it's cheaper in the long run (can be sold back) and 2) you're more likely (basically guaranteed) to get a working copy on day 1 since developers prioritize making sure the console version of their game works 100% since that's where most of the sales come from.

And there are enough things that go wrong with PCs since they perform many other functions that there may not be tinkering for you but there is definitely tinkering for enough people to turn them off from the experience. Being on GAF, you are obviously in the 1% in terms of technical knowledge. The average person doesn't have your computer expertise, even for something simple like configuring Steam.

I can't even begin with this...

SMOK3Y · May 15, 2017

DocSeuss said:
For the same reason people believe you eat like 8 spiders a year in your sleep.

WTF...

Fredrik · May 15, 2017

Mushroomer25 said:
For the average consumer, building a PC is infinitely more complex than console ownership. Having to pick out parts, settle on a budget, and assemble the entire thing just litters the process with worry and concern.

A huge part of this is the knowledge that your experience could always be better. You could always spend 'just a little bit more', and have a better frame rate, resolution, etc. So no matter what, you're left to consider the experience you could be having - rather than the one you actually are having.

Yes but you don't have to do that. I knew nothing about PCs, just went to a PC store and said I wanted a beast of a PC, they built it, installed Windows 7 and did some stress tests on it and that was it. Super-easy. Basically plug and play PC gaming.

Chalupa Batman · May 15, 2017

chaosblade said:
This is making perfect the enemy of better. Components don't get worse with time, the ceiling just gets higher. If I have a PC that's more powerful than consoles, it's going to remain more powerful than consoles even if it isn't top of the line.

To be honest this "if I don't have the absolute top of the line PC parts I might as well just have a console" line of thought baffles me more than the stuff about "complicated drivers" and "hours of tinkering with settings." There's just no sensible logic behind it at all.

This is basically the same experience you get with BPM on Steam. Games (and Steam itself) are automatically updated. You get a nice, full screen, controller-focused UI. You do get taken out of it by games with partial controller support, usually just for launchers and external configuration utilities, but for the most part it does the job just as well.

Huge Succeeded said:
One of the most common misconceptions regarding PC gaming and an absolutely asinine one to prop up. PC gaming isn't about min-maxing your benefits. Even a shitty PC offers baseline benefits and interesting functionalities. You're reducing what the PC has to offer as a platform all the way down to just being able to upgrade parts to the latest year, as though, if you can't have that, what's the point? And I'm just sitting here like... man, I know you've used a PC before so don't go down that roa

There's really nothing else compelling about it. More quantities/more genres of games is the other benefit but that's subjective and can't be easily measured. However, the one advantage for PCs is that they run all games better (when done right). If your $500 PC from 2012 still outperforms PS4 and Xbone, that's great, but you're not getting the most out of the PC platform. You're not getting HDR and true 4K and all the other advantages that PC gaming provides, so what's the point? Like I said, if it's the larger/more diverse library, that's fine, but that's not something that can be objectively discussed.

So what you're left with is being able to play games in "better" states, and to do that, you have to upgrade components on a semi-frequent basis, and that's not cheap or necessarily easy, especially not for the average person. The PC experience may be much better than it was 10 years ago--it may even be perfect--but it's not worth it for most people if they feel like they have to keep upgrading to get the most out of it. Every PS4 from 2013 will be able to play the last PS4 game that's ever released--everyone gets the same experience. But the same can't be said for a PC made in 2013 trying to play Call of Duty WW8 in 2020.

MetalliCabombination · May 15, 2017

Convenience.
I sit on the couch, i press a button and im back to playing the game i was yesterday.

Getting a gaming pc is no rocket science but its a fair bit more complex than "it just works"

Even before you build or buy one, you cant be sure if what youre getting is good for the price, you can build a pc with a 1080 in 1500 bucks and you can be fooled into buying one with a 780 for the same amount.
After that, a gaming pc is still a pc, which js far more complex than a console ecosystem thus its more prone to issues. Something completely unrelated to gaming may stop me from playing games and i can't have that. Especially if i get an hour or two to play games a day at most.

Even if all that wasn't a big issue, a consoles in comparison is just too goddamn simple between the two. Why would i make the effort and pay more if didn't care for the advantages pc offered?

A dedicated windows based gaming system with high end tier pc hardware that i do not need to touch, wirelessly conrolled ui and the entire steam library.
Now that id get behind

Rats Off To Ya · May 15, 2017

PleaseDontBanMe said:
nope

speaking from experience.

It can be simple and it can be as annoying as you want it to be, the less you care about the little things the easier it will be for you.

I agree with this. When I first built my gaming PC I didn't want to mess with that stuff and for the most part I didn't worry about it too much. It was so much better than what I'd been getting on consoles my whole life that a stutter here and an artifact there didn't phase me, if I even noticed it.

Then the sickness gets into you. Five years later I spend at least an hour benchmarking different settings in the opening section of a game just to find that sweet spot. And the instant I feel an extended drop below 60, I'm opening RTSS to get to the bottom of things. And I love to do it.

Prospective PC converts should know that the guy in my first paragraph and the guy in my second paragraph are both getting everything they want out of PC gaming, because PC gaming is whatever you want it to be.

kobu · May 15, 2017

Everything seems great until you end up spending more time getting a game to work than you do playing and beating it.

JimmyRustler · May 15, 2017

It's easier nowadays but there is still a lot of tinkering involved here and there OP. Like, have you ever tried running older games on new PCs? It's not just plug and play mate.

NoblesseOblige · May 15, 2017

And if you want to use a controller it'll never be as simple as a console. I've spent many hours over the years putzing around with controller support in games, especially for games that don't have Playstation prompts on their PC versions. While I'm more than fine modding them in or getting a controller to function the way I like it a lot of people just want a system made to work with the controller.

Defuser · May 15, 2017

Renekton said:
You can go to GAF Tech Support thread, Steam community forums or GAF PC performance threads to help the posters out with their PC issues.

Thats the thing. Going to those websites is a hassle for people who don't want to spent effort. They are not going to create an account, spent time writing a help post and play the waiting game of people replying back which may or may not help them out because there is so many variations of problems due to different hard/software configurations which leads to people asking more questions and more waiting.

Huge Succeeded · May 15, 2017

PleaseDontBanMe said:
It can be simple and it can be as annoying as you want it to be, the less you care about the little things the easier it will be for you.

That's reasonable, and I guess I can't fault you because a lot of enthusiasts will watch their numbers, but I don't think that your description of the average enthusiast PC gamer aligns with the reality of the average enthusiast PC gamer.

Alphahawk · May 15, 2017

chaosblade said:
I feel like this is a tradeoff though. On PC if you have a problem there is usually some sort of fix for it. On console if you have a problem, you are fucked until the console maker or developer/publisher fix it.

Troubleshooting or shit developer/publisher support *coughSquareEnixcough* is definitely a problem on PC, but it's far from the majority of the experience.

But I mean from my end that's actually a benefit. If my performance for a game is off, the onus is on the game makers to fix it and send it straight to my box. On PC if a game bugs out, chances are that a fix is never going to come and I'll just have to edit the files until it works.

Ploid 3.0 · May 15, 2017

SMOK3Y said:
WTF...

You'll live.

Mohasus · May 15, 2017

Mushroomer25 said:
The fact this is even a factor contributes to my point. Plenty of sites offer solid deals of building a machine, but you'll also hear a storm of opinions (from this very thread) that it is the easiest thing in the world. So should I pay the extra money to have somebody else build it for me, or should I save the money and risk a headache putting it together myself? Should I take the risk? Is there even a risk?

These are questions you are not going to ask yourself as you're picking a console up at Best Buy.

The answer is pretty obvious if you are asking yourself that.

Freshmaker · May 15, 2017

Fredrik said:
During these past 4 years I haven't "fiddled" with any driver or patches, I've just bought the games on Steam and everything has just worked with zero tinkering. The fiddling is taken care of by Steam without me knowing about it.

I'm glad you've been lucky.

Since I built my first PC a few years ago I've had Windows randomly decide that my GPU didn't exist with a vague error code that didn't ever help me figure out what was wrong.

Then I got stuck with the PC spiraling into endless boot loops.

So I replaced my PSU. Nothing. Still endless boot loops.

I replaced my GPU. Nothing. Still endless boot loops.

I replaced my Motherboard. Ok things worked again.

Got sick of being told to swipe right by Windows 8, upgraded to WIndows 10. Things seemed ok aside from Street Fighter V and Demon's Souls refusing to run.

Then the anniversary update dropped. Windows decided to hang after about 10 seconds. So I had to roll it back.

Then MS decided to update Killer Instinct in such a way that it was incompatible with earlier builds of WIndows 10.

So I finally got that cleared up (I think) without having to pull some BS system wipe that some think are super cool to do constantly.

Now only Xsplit can't see my Elgato card, and Timespy hangs while trying to fetch my system info.

EZ as all hell. It just works indeed.

roMonster · May 15, 2017

For me, the situation changes from game to game.

One of the most frustrating things to happen to me is that sometimes i spend hours tinkering a game--get it working and play it but shelf it for like a month. I comeback and all my settings/tweaks are gone and I'm back to having issues/perf tweaking.

Some of these are old game that im sure have not gotten patched or changed--I doubt EA cares much for NFS Shift 2 steam to mess with my stuff.

Then there are games like:

Forza Horizon 3 (pre hot wheels)
Dark Souls
Fallout 4
Far Cry 3

I've put these games on hiatus and kind of want to come back to them but I know my shit isnt going to be like i left it and ill be back on forums/google search looks for solutions. At least I will always remember that Far Cry 3 hates hooking software.

Aztechnology · May 15, 2017

Strangelove77 said:
And as easy and hassle-free as that all sounds, consoles are even easier and even more hassle-free. That's really all there is to it.

This is true.

But to actually answer the question, it's because people decide to make it that way. When people have an abundance of options, they often get tied up in tweaking, adding mods etc. You really don't have to do much tinkering, and most games even come with tools (Like automatic settings) to make it even more painless. Hell Nvidia for instance even provides an ability to override games with recommended settings in their software they provide, so you click a button and it syncs up all your games recommended settings.

The beauty of PC is that it offers the freedom to go further and have many more options, but you don't have to.

That being said, you definitely can run into extra issues that can be quite frustrating, but in my experience its been the odd exception and by no means the rule.

Renekton · May 15, 2017

Fredrik said:
Yes but you don't have to do that. I knew nothing about PCs, just went to a PC store and said I wanted a beast of a PC, they built it, installed Windows 7 and did some stress tests on it and that was it. Super-easy. Basically plug and play PC gaming.

Fredrik.

Please go to the GAF tech support thread or PC performance threads to help the users out with their technical issues.

Huge Succeeded · May 15, 2017

NoblesseOblige said:
And if you want to use a controller it'll never be as simple as a console.

I think what you meant to say is

"If you want to use a DualShock 4, it'll never be as simple as using that DualShock 4 with your PS4"

because using an Xbox controller on PC is really, really simple

regardless, think about your complaint here. Xbox 360/Xbox One is the defacto controller on Windows. However, you're able to use a DualShock 4 - as of today, you can do so with minimum tinkering, as Steam supports DualShock 4 out of the gate, and many games now sub in Playstation prompts. Before that was possible, you had to use a 3rd party program. Sometimes, you have to sub in Playstation prompts yourself.
but it was possible. Not that hard, even. I used a PS4 controller for every single game on PC before I became acclimated to keyboard and mouse.

What if I wanted to use an Xbox One controller on PS4?

Mushroomer25 · May 15, 2017

Fredrik said:
Yes but you don't have to do that. I knew nothing about PCs, just went to a PC store and said I wanted a beast of a PC, they built it, installed Windows 7 and did some stress tests on it and that was it. Super-easy. Basically plug and play PC gaming.

My point is 100% about perception. PC gaming has an image problem, because people know how deep it can get. They know that people can spend thousands on super high-end custom rigs that are precision-tuned like a fighter jet. So going into PC gaming either means spending an insane amount of time and money for one of those setups, or settling for something that is objectively sub-optimal.

Even buying a prebuild comes with the baggage of buying 'one of those overpriced pre-builds', and not building it yourself because it's 'so easy'.

Frankly, it's the PC gaming community that does the most work to hold back PC gaming.

chaosblade · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
There's really nothing else compelling about it. More quantities/more genres of games is the other benefit but that's subjective and can't be easily measured. However, the one advantage for PCs is that they run all games better (when done right). If your $500 PC from 2012 still outperforms PS4 and Xbone, that's great, but you're not getting the most out of the PC platform. You're not getting HDR and true 4K and all the other advantages that PC gaming provides, so what's the point? Like I said, if it's the larger/more diverse library, that's fine, but that's not something that can be objectively discussed.

So what you're left with is being able to play games in "better" states, and to do that, you have to upgrade components on a semi-frequent basis, and that's not cheap or necessarily easy, especially not for the average person. The PC experience may be much better than it was 10 years ago--it may even be perfect--but it's not worth it for most people if they feel like they have to keep upgrading to get the most out of it. Every PS4 from 2013 will be able to play the last PS4 game that's ever released--everyone gets the same experience. But the same can't be said for a PC made in 2013 trying to play Call of Duty WW8 in 2020.

But you need to buy new consoles on a semi-frequent basis too. And you have even less choice in the matter because you don't get to decide that your games don't run well enough and you want something better, or you want to try running this new game on your older hardware and put off upgrading a little longer.

And not only do new games not work on old consoles, but the reverse is true as well. I can play all my last gen games on PC just fine, even better than I could play them before I upgraded. But all my PS3 games are stuck on PS3 just like they were back then.

Again, it's making perfect the enemy of better. Just because you aren't playing games at the absolute most maximum settings possible doesn't mean you aren't getting a better experience than consoles. You're essentially saying you might as well settle for bare minimum since you can't hit absolute maximum.

A dumb but accurate comparison -

"I guess I have to walk to work, I can't afford a Ferrari and don't want to buy anything less than top of the line."

xxracerxx · May 15, 2017

Fredrik said:
Yes but you don't have to do that. I knew nothing about PCs, just went to a PC store and said I wanted a beast of a PC, they built it, installed Windows 7 and did some stress tests on it and that was it. Super-easy. Basically plug and play PC gaming.

You really need to stop equating your sole experience with every one else's. You can't just say it doesn't have to be complex! When you have been lucky these last few years with no problems. I wouldn't say the PS4 doesn't have a fan issue because I have never gotten jet engine sounds from my unit.

Danny Dudekisser · May 15, 2017

It kinda does still require tinkering. I mean, yeah, there's the obvious stuff like driver updates and the like, which aren't too big of a deal. But if you want games to actually feel right when you play them, you have to use RTSS. Dealing with stuttering is a huge pain in the ass if you don't have a G-sync monitor, even with a tool like RTSS. And if you want to play older games (like, late '90s to early 2000s stuff), sometimes those games are busted on modern hardware and require workarounds like dgvoodoo2 to display properly. Or there's games that were saddled with DRM or GFWL that don't work on modern systems without a crack.

Point is, it's not necessarily as simple as some people like to claim. Depends on what you're playing, obviously, but there is usually some tinkering required if you want games to perform well.

Mushroomer25 · May 15, 2017

Mohasus said:
The answer is pretty obvious if you are asking yourself that.

The point is that buying a gaming PC is an experience so riddled with doubt and second-guessing, it's insane to blame anyone for not considering it.

Huge Succeeded · May 15, 2017

Chalupa Batman said:
You're not getting HDR and true 4K and all the other advantages that PC gaming provides, so what's the point?

Damn, I thought you were joking. What an insanely ignorant question to let serve as the crux of your entire argument. Spoken like someone who doesn't appear to know anything about the platform besides how it enables people with money to experience the bleeding edge.

I want to make myself clear - you are being incredibly reductive. You keep reducing the advantages, or the myriad unique and compelling reasons to play games on PC games, to bleeding-edge tech. I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain to you why that's misguided.

MetalliCabombination · May 15, 2017

Huge Succeeded said:
I think what you meant to say is

"If you want to use a DualShock 4, it'll never be as simple as using that DualShock 4 with your PS4"

because using an Xbox controller on PC is really, really simple

regardless, think about your complaint here. Xbox 360/Xbox One is the defacto controller on Windows. However, you're able to use a DualShock 4 - as of today, you can do so with minimum tinkering, as Steam supports DualShock 4 out of the gate, and many games now sub in Playstation prompts. Before that was possible, you had to use a 3rd party program. Sometimes, you have to sub in Playstation prompts yourself.
but it was possible. Not that hard, even. I used a PS4 controller for every single game on PC before I became acclimated to keyboard and mouse.

What if I wanted to use an Xbox One controller on PS4?

I think his point is that you cant navigate through you pc entirely with your controller.

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