Yearsoflurking
Member
It's weird to see a lot of people being pro corporation in here; if im Sony i would continue pushing anti consumer policies as far as i can considering feedback.
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ARK: Survival Evolved XO-PS4 crossplay working internally; Sony won't allow it
- Thread starter Spider_Jerusalem
- Start date
Yea, it's important to differentiate the platform holder blocking crossplay, and a developer not implementing it. The COD AW situation was on Activision, not Microsoft. A similar situation happen with Project Cars on the Oculus Store, where it's not playable against owners of the Steam version, despite there being zero restrictions between Oculus game and Steam games playing against each other.
Even when crossplay is allowed however, doesn't guarantee that even the platform holder won't get stupid at times... look at Halo Wars Definitive Edition for example. Released after all the crossplay fanfare, and the Windows Store version isn't crossplay with either the Xbox One version or the Steam version, leaving its user on a tiny little island away from most of the other players.
What you're arguing against in this case isn't crossplay with Xbox, but crossplay at all. These same issues exist for any game that's crossplay between PC and PS4, such as Rocket League or Street Fighter V. In most cases the crossplay aspect can then just be mostly ignored, but in the case of stuff like Street Fighter V you'll have a CFN ID which you can use to invite someone to a game regardless of platform.
The thing is, solving QoL issues with crossplay titles won't happen whilst there's roadblocks to crossplay in general. There's not really any reasons why an app like Discord couldn't facilitate crossplay networking, if they were granted hooks into XBL/PSN/NN. Twitch already serves as an example of how such things can work universally, despite supporting ties to the individual service accounts.
LiquidSolid
Member
"When"? You seem to be under the impression it's ever going to happen.
RichiRamjag
Member
Sony didn't offer crossplay with Xbox and take it away, so I don't personally think it's that big a deal. I purchased the console with a set of expectations and for the most part I got what I paid for. I don't consider giving away a base of 60mil as anti-consumer when I've never had an issue with pop in any game. Not to mention they've been supporting crossplay for ages on PC. I'm hardly Pro corporation, but that's just how I see it.
I think anyone who doesn't like it should voice it though, but folks need to stop acting like everyone is up in arms about this. Some of us just don't really mind their stance. I'm more offended by the lack of mods, but I just give MS my business for games that use them.
A.K.A. People don't agree with me so I'm gonna play up the corporate defender angle and toss in a childish insult for good measure. Be better than that, mate. I respect that some people do want it, but I'm not going to be ashamed for not thinking it's that big a deal.
Nobody is a loser.
In fact a number of reasonable arguments have been said.
You don't agree, fine, but that's it.
Sometimes it seems that the ones complaining are mostly people that game on platforms different than PlayStation, and want a better experience but want it to be provided from the platform that do not support
RichiRamjag
Member
It kind of does at times.
Seriously now?
This is about something pro-gamers. If you don't want it or wouldn't use it, that's fine, but trying to say that people who want more for gamers are bitter about platform choices... what?
RichiRamjag
Member
It came across as him implying they wanted the benefits of the PS4 pop rather than them being bitter they don't own ps4s.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Sad!
But he's talking about Ark. There aren't any population problems with Ark on any platform. It's a freedom of choice, it's a convenience. It brings gamers together.
It definitely limits the game's growth. Many games and players would benefit from crossplay. I guess the only one who doesn't benefit is Sony, but so far all we have to go on is their bullshit excuse.
The funny thing here, is that it's MS' requirement for crossplay to be optional rather than mandatory that would necessitate a separate Xbox server, and is why it's not coming.
As much as the current batch of crossplay issues is a result of Sony, FFXIV needs to stop being brought up in the same manner, because that's actually being blocked by a MS policy, which should logically be waived for any MMO.
I keep reading so variation of this line... but where exactly are those that want it acting like "everyone is up in arms" about it? Mind providing quotes?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
lol that was some bs PR thing. That dont need to be addressed.
I would like to know this as well. People keep bringing up playing friends from other platforms but I have not read anything where devs have mentioned this being possible.
It's demonstrably possible.
If you have Street Fighter V on PS4, gimme your CFN ID and I'll invite you to a game now from my PC version.
For voice chat, see any PSVR crossplay game, like Star Trek Bridge Crew, or Werewolves Within.
All depends on implementation.
Rocket League has passworded lobbies for private play and random matching for public.
Minecraft will have friends lists and invites.
Ark is server based, so you can connect to the same servers as your friends.
Those are just some examples.
Good thing is, once we cross the play rubicon, developers can start working on more robust systems.
thelastword
Banned
The last thing these devs should be worried about is puttng up a feature Sony is not interested in. There's already too much Sony have to worry about regulating on their PSN, than opening up their network to MS..... I see no reason for Sony to bolster MS's console by offering them more people to play with or against..It goes against every grain of business....When MS was not interested in crossplay last-gen nobody bat an eyelid, now it's all the rage and Sony is bad because they put their business and their ecosystem first... This is laughable at best..
The ark devs should concentrate on putting up a game that does not make the 1080ti cry, with framerates that fall below 10 fps on consoles. They also need to get rid of the 1million and 1 bugs they have in that game....Priorities Ark devs, priorities....
GhostTrick
Banned
Sony also make their online base bigger by that. It's also the others platforms, like Switch and PC. Sure, Crossplay with PC/PS4 happens already, but if Crossplay had no platform limit, you can bet every major publisher would support it.
And a bigger userbase means more stable online communities, especially for smaller titles.
They don't put their business and their ecosystem first. It's rather the opposite. Not only they're cornering themselve, they also made the PS4 version of Minecraft, one of the biggest video game, a legacy version, thanks to their shenanigans. Heck, they don't even have to comply to Xbox Live or any standards. They just need to say "yes" to developpers.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Be better than that.
This is such nonsense. They didn't say they are prioritising a feature which Sony won't let them implement. They say they have it working internally. This would likely be because separating the online pools is an artificial measure which actually requires work to prevent them from being able to play together. Pretty much every multiplat game is probably working crossplay internally, because it's natural that they'd all handle networking in the same way.
They were asked a question, and they responded to it, that's all... no point in getting pissy at them, because you don't like the discussion their simple answer provokes.
So yes, talking shit that has nothing to do with the topic is simply deflection.
Guess you weren't around the last time this carnival played out? Nobody batting an eyelid is inaccurate at best and deceptive at worst.
LiquidSolid
Member
Agreed but TBH, even if Microsoft did waive that policy, I still doubt it would happen. The last game Square Enix Japan announced for Xbox was Final Fantasy Type-0 in 2014. They clearly have no interest in supporting it.
Yea, it probably wouldn't happen now... but that'd just be because the ship has sailed at this point. They ran into this issue at the start of last gen, and then it was still an issue when it came to the start of this gen.
It's also not only affecting FFXIV. It's why XB1's DC Universe Online isn't crossplay either (and Phantasy Star Universe before that).
TheWorthyEdge
Member
This is annoying.
CrimsonGun
Member
Unfortunate but I don't think it's a big deal for this specific game. It will have a big player base on both consoles.
thelastword
Banned
There are billions of PC's out there for a typical game in MP, it still does not help a game nobody is interested in playing online. Even the mighty PC has many games indie and AAA alike that are ghost towns.
Sony has more control over it's ecosystem without a live hook and they would like to keep it that way. They also have to be extra careful after some of the security issues they've had in the past. It's simple really, If Ms and Live customers wants more people to play with on the MS ecosystem, MS should just ensure they sell more consoles and more live subs. It's a bit diingenous to suggest that Sony should allow the exceedingly larger base of PSN subscribers as free and open competitiors to LIVE/MS subscribers. In what world does that make any business sense? If people start to exploit such connects and PSN customers start getting a worse experience when they play online, who do you think they're going to blame?
At this point, I have no problems getting games in any game I want to play on PSN...I see no one complaining that they have huge issues playing COD/BF online or Overwatch or the games people actually play online..In any case, such a system won't prevent servers from shutting down on select games every year either... EA servers will still shut down, first party servers will still close etc.....
As for what you said on crossplay on PC/PS4 and Switch/PC...Do you realize that there''s is no subs for online play on PC, and I think the same applies to Nintendo consoles. PC is an open platform so it affects no one and is a mutual benefit across these platforms. An open platform crossing with a paid platform makes sense, two open platforms crossing makes sense. Two paying platforms gives a signiifcant advantage to the one which has lower subs and at cost to the security and ecosystem of the bigger sub pool.
Sony has crossplay with PC, but even then it has limitations, I can't message PC players in SFV or even report them to PSN for suspected cheating or loaded online ID's et al...So even then there are a few restrictions...If MS wants they should do like Sony and Nintendo and do more PC/XB crossplatform games...Hell, it makes more sense since MS has Windows/Windows Store and CrossBuy, it's kinda their own platform across PC and XB....In such a scenario I hope MS puts there money where their mouth is, I expect that MS has exceedingly more XB/PC crossplatform play titles over Nintendo and Sony combined???...If they do not, then we know, all of this is just hot air..Would really like to know the numbers though...Eh!.. how many games does Microsoft have that are XB/PC vs PS4/PC and Nintendo/PC?....I'm thinking MS should have half of it's console titles crossplay at this point....Amirite?
Liliana Eileen
Member
Funny, the opposite is much, much more blatantly true. The corporate apologists and thread whiners posting here and in previous threads are mostly (and by mostly, literally 90%+) either known Sony fanboys, superfans, evangelists and/or diehard Xbox/Microsoft pessimists. Like the two people I just quoted. You can recognize this from their name, avatar (makes it easier for the brain to recognize), post history, etc. Some of the people I have quoted sound like they get GAF confused with the console war section on Gamefaqs. Meanwhile, most of the replies in these threads are against Sony and these actions and most of the posters aren't even recognizable. I've seen posters who only post in OT come say their piece. Even Sony fans who admit they prefer PS4 come and speak against it.
It's baffling to see a forum so inherently leftist and pro-consumer say things like "I understand because this is in the best interest for Sony" and "I would do the same if I owned a business and "this doesn't bother personally so it shouldn't be a big deal," just because the company in question happens to be Sony. I understand shilling, but at this point it's just sad. People talking about Sony doing this because of Microsoft (as if both companies don't work together outside of vidya gaemz)... what about DQX for the Switch? You know, the console Sony said are in homes next to PS4s, and that their user base started with Nintendo and the console coexists nicely with a PS4? Get real.
Bitter, now? Yep, see above post.
All this talk about the PS4 population from the same old people make no sense when think about the facts. Minecraft? Much more popular on Xbox, and besides that, the combined crossplay of Nintendo, Xbox, PC and portable devices makes PS4s population look like a speck of sand. Rocket League? Top 3-5 played game on XBL. You think Microsoft is desperate for the "PS4 population just because Psyonix dreams of full crossplay functionality? ARK? Huge player base on Xbox since that's the console that had it first due to early access. It sounds like you're deflecting from the true issue at hand, which is uniting people and playerbases. UNITING.
No, that would be bad PR. They just hope people forget about it and move on.
The numbers would definitely be fascinating to see, but I think you pulling criteria out of your backside for how many each company should have is sort of moot when people are asking for everyone to be playing together.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Look at his post history in these types of threads and don't even bother.
I'm optimistic enough to think even if he's got an axe to grind, others might read and hear information either way.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Nothing against cross platform of course but seriously these devs? They should worry about making their game not run like shit above all else but they haven't managed to improve fuck all in two years.
N30RYU
Member
I'm ok with sony not allowing it but I understand all the ppl that isn't ok with it.
If they let play PS4 users against PC users they should have a reason (probably not wanting to share it's userbase with MS) to do so and I repect that decision.
And the ones not respecting that maybe should move to MS or unite and elevate a global complaint.
If they let play PS4 users against PC users they should have a reason (probably not wanting to share it's userbase with MS) to do so and I repect that decision.
And the ones not respecting that maybe should move to MS or unite and elevate a global complaint.
thelastword
Banned
Who are these people? There are more xbox fans in this thread trying to fan these flames. Let's be honest here, if Live subscribers want more people to play with, the onus is on MS to provide that incentive to LIVE players, not SONY....I have also seen no issue as it relates to PSN subscribers not getting enough persons to play with in their games...
One of the benefits of the ecosystem is that you can track and mesage everyone you play with, crossplay does not allow that atm across PSN and Steam...it will not allow that with PSN/LIVE...The purpose of a closed system/paying system is proper regulation+security ...Sony has an obligation to it's paying customers not to do anything that will potentially jeopardize that, and as a business they're not going to give paying Microsoft customers the freebie of a huge psn installbase, when MS has much more to gain in said scenario....The bottomline is this, no one on PSN is crying that they need more people to play with....the installbase is large enough to sustain any popular online game for years ongoing,,,,,That's a fact.
ARK devs should fix their game, it's what they should concentrate on, crossplay is the least of their problems. As for the initial post I quoted by bits and pieces..If anyone is deflecting it's those ark devs .....Such a big elepahnt in the room and they want to concentrate on the ant below.....That game is in a dreadful state in terms of bugs, framerate and general optimization...., Crossplay is not the reason more people are not playing this online...I swear Ark devs it's not .....Hmmm....but yet, what could it be ?????
I'll tell you something, the reason I've not purchased ARK is not because of crossplay and playerbase, yes...not even close...
NoctisVsStar
Member
This utopian world will never happen. The leader of each gen won't give up their userbase. Besides when you buy a console you buy into their ecosystem. Trust me I get it we would all want to game on our favorite platforms with all our friends that own different consoles. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way you want to do that? Buy x console that's the cold truth of the world of capitalism.
Doesn't mean I agree but I ain't delusional.
Doesn't mean I agree but I ain't delusional.
Who are these people? There are more xbox fans in this thread trying to fan these flames. Let's be honest here, if Live subscribers want more people to play with, the onus is on MS to provide that incentive to LIVE players, not SONY....I have also seen no issue as it relates to PSN subscribers not getting enough persons to play with in their games...
One of the benefits of the ecosystem is that you can track and mesage everyone you play with, crossplay does not allow that atm across PSN and Steam...it will not allow that with PSN/LIVE...The purpose of a closed system/paying system is proper regulation+security ...Sony has an obligation to it's paying customers not to do anything, that will potentially jeopardize that and as a bsuiness they're not going to give paying Microsoft customers the freebie of a huge psn installbase, when MS has much more to gain in said scenario....The bottomline is this, no one on PSN is crying that they need more people to play with....the installbase is large enough to sustain any popular online game for years ongoing,,,,,
ARK devs should fix their game, that is the least of their problems. As for the initial post I quoted by bits and pieces..If anyone is deflecting it's those ark devs.....Such a big elepahnt in the room and they want to concentrate on the ant below.....That game is in a dreadful state in terms of bugs, framerate and general optimization...., Crossplay is not the reason more people are not playing this online...I swear Ark devs it's not .....Hmmm....what could it be ?????
The people are the people you're arguing against in this very thread!
Ark devs aren't complaining about a lack of players. It's one of the most popular games on every platform it's on.
I dunno where people are getting this notion from that the biggest push for this is coming from ghost town platforms. You'd think going by all the "hurr hurr, just want our playerbase" comments that Xbox Live and Switch were bereft of players. The games that are cross play championing at the moment don't need combined playerbases to bolster their numbers. Rocket League, Ark and Minecraft are huge.
The player base combining is great for matchmaking times, matchmaking quality, longevity of games. It's also great for friends to play with friends, regardless of the platform they're on. It's also great for convenience. For example, when Minecraft drops, people will be able to play on their console and I can play on my PC and other friends who are curious can drop in on their phones and we can all opt for each of those options at any time. That it bolsters the communities of more niche titles is the icing on the cake.
yeah all those bad xbox player who want to get the psn userbase because they dont find matches. Are you serious in none of those games sony denied there is a population problem on the xbox side.Who are these people? There are more xbox fans in this thread trying to fan these flames. Let's be honest here, if Live subscribers want more people to play with, the onus is on MS to provide that incentive to LIVE players, not SONY....I have also seen no issue as it relates to PSN subscribers not getting enough persons to play with in their games...
One of the benefits of the ecosystem is that you can track and mesage everyone you play with, crossplay does not allow that atm across PSN and Steam...it will not allow that with PSN/LIVE...The purpose of a closed system/paying system is proper regulation+security ...Sony has an obligation to it's paying customers not to do anything, that will potentially jeopardize that and as a bsuiness they're not going to give paying Microsoft customers the freebie of a huge psn installbase, when MS has much more to gain in said scenario....The bottomline is this, no one on PSN is crying that they need more people to play with....the installbase is large enough to sustain any popular online game for years ongoing,,,,,
ARK devs should fix their game, that is the least of their problems. As for the initial post I quoted by bits and pieces..If anyone is deflecting it's those ark devs.....Such a big elepahnt in the room and they want to concentrate on the ant below.....That game is in a dreadful state in terms of bugs, framerate and general optimization...., Crossplay is not the reason more people are not playing this online...I swear Ark devs it's not .....Hmmm....what could it be ?????
And yeah I bet its really hard to keep your customers safe from xbox players, so only let pc in for crossplay lol
And whats your problem with ark devs ? someone asked and they answered. They didnt say its a priority to enable this stuff
Head.spawn
Junior Member
MS got a lot of shit from gamers, journalists and even developers were open about airing their grievance with MS's upfront opposed stance on crossplatform play and they even missed out on games entirely because of their stance. Rightly so IMO.
No idea why you're trying to change the conversation here. And hell, I think we have enough of the "whatabout alternate reality MS" or "back in the day MS"... it's not the current situation.
CrimsonGun
Member
Your point about security, dont you think Microsoft looked into possible security risks already if they are so willing to allow crossplay? Unless you're implying the risk would be unique to Sony's ecosystem. Which I don't think would be possible.Who are these people? There are more xbox fans in this thread trying to fan these flames. Let's be honest here, if Live subscribers want more people to play with, the onus is on MS to provide that incentive to LIVE players, not SONY....I have also seen no issue as it relates to PSN subscribers not getting enough persons to play with in their games...
One of the benefits of the ecosystem is that you can track and mesage everyone you play with, crossplay does not allow that atm across PSN and Steam...it will not allow that with PSN/LIVE...The purpose of a closed system/paying system is proper regulation+security ...Sony has an obligation to it's paying customers not to do anything that will potentially jeopardize that, and as a bsuiness they're not going to give paying Microsoft customers the freebie of a huge psn installbase, when MS has much more to gain in said scenario....The bottomline is this, no one on PSN is crying that they need more people to play with....the installbase is large enough to sustain any popular online game for years ongoing,,,,,That's a fact.
ARK devs should fix their game, it's what tehy should concentrate on, crossplay is the least of their problems. As for the initial post I quoted by bits and pieces..If anyone is deflecting it's those ark devs .....Such a big elepahnt in the room and they want to concentrate on the ant below.....That game is in a dreadful state in terms of bugs, framerate and general optimization...., Crossplay is not the reason more people are not playing this online...I swear Ark devs it's not .....Hmmm....but yet, what could it be ?????
I'll tell you something, the reason I've not purchased ARK is not because of crossplay and playerbase, yes...not even close...
This isn't about console wars, it isn't about which piece of plastic people own. Its about one corporation blocking a feature which would be for the greater good of the gaming community.
There is no consumer reason to be against this at all. Everyone should be for it.
Of course, it's a thelastword post.
I agree 100%. I would like to see a PSN poll on this, I'm confident the majority of PS players wouldn't care about crossplay. If the people who want crossplay aren't PS players and wouldn't buy one after crossplay was approved then why would Sony care? Their only obligation is to their own customers.
Liliana Eileen
Member
If Durante is calling you out, you know you done fucked up.
thelastword
Banned
Microsoft may have, but Sony has a different exeperience when it comes to security issues, so they may see things differently. They're also a bigger network, so if there are breaches, they have more to lose....Ms is not in the drivers seat, so it's pretty easy for them to psuh this now, conveniently when they're not in the lead as opposed to when they were?
You're giving MS the benfit of the doubt as far as "having the players at heart" perhaps, but don't be so naive.. History with MS paints a different picture entirely....It's just business afterall and Sony is only doing what MS did when they had the lead..but with a bad security breach in their past, they have to be careful.....No CP across PSN/LIVE in the 360 era never stopped the 360 from outselling PS3 in the US...The biggest noise I heard in that era was certainly not CP play, all I heard from MS fans was how PSN was crap compared to LIVE....Do you think these guys cared about playing with PSN players then?
When I look at this argument, it's kinda like two families leaving across each other, they each have their houses bought and paid for.The downside is one house is bigger has more land and a bigger lawn. The family of the smaller house and smaller lawn insists that their children should play on their neighbors lawn....It's not their right to play there tbh, they can ask, but if the bigger house owner says no, there's no reason to throw a fit.....
In the business world, where enterprises differentiate their products through ownership, patents, installbases, marketing and demographics, this should not even be something so contentious to be honest..We should all know how business works. Sony is not in the busienss of giving handouts to MS, they're competitiors. MS would not give Sony a handout either...This is simply a marketing ploy from MS..."trying to mock the 4theplayers" moniker, but if MS was 70 million + in with so many PSN subs, they would have done the same as history shows...
GhostTrick
Banned
Well yes, despite big userbases, some games are ghost town. On PS4. On PC. On Xbox One. So it'd be easier for these games to be crossplay.
And crossplay would be more widespread if it was multiplatform too and not two sided.
And no, it's not about Live hooked to Sony's ecosystem. Rocket League devs said so. Same for Ark devs. It's just a button press. It's just Sony's allowing PS4 players to play with both Xbox and PC players and Switch players.
But whatever. It's better to explain me why it's not a good idea for Sony's interests, as if it was about Sony's PR and not OUR interests as players.
I guess #4ThePlayers is more about raising prices and no cross play. And that's fine because some people will always be like "It's useless to complain".
If it was Microsoft doing it, we'd be BOTH, you and I calling them out. Enough with the security bullshit ! They allow Crossplay with PC, which is open as you said. It's not about security. It's not about protecting their ecosystem. It's about a dumb fear advantage.
And it's a stupid reason as stated before. I dont care about a company's interest. I care about my own interest. And MY interest should be a company's interest.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I'm here. Just very busy. Moving the family in my scenario is quite a chore. Others are handling these threads quite nicely though.
A.K.A. screw you got mine.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't know if posters like that think they will actually shame or insult anyone into agreeing with them but it's interesting to watch.
Funny thing is almost no one is against cross play, but the varying levels of importance everyone personally has is enough to make the conversation very heated.
thelastword
Banned
But that's the point, even if there was crossplay that would never negate the fact that games which had issues or hold no interest to gamers would be ghost towns.... or that the numbers would not dwindle significantly overtime...
Do you think Evolve would be budding now if it had crossplay? No....Do you think COD4 thriving online had anything to do with crossplay? The main reason you populate servers is because your game is fun....Warhawk, Socom back in the day etc....People talk about indies, but just like AAA games, indies are populated if gamers have an interest and it's mad fun online..Anybody remember battlefield 1943 on the PSN, that game had so many people playing because it was such a fun game online, that's it...As I've said before, even the PC with billions in terms of a playerbase dont keep players for every game online. CP is simply not a problem solver in that respect...
CP also has some security issues that come with it, along with limited interaction with the cross platform. I can't report or interact with players on steam after a game of SFV...I just don't see CP taking off, it has too many downsides for paying customers on single paltforms. If they go full throttle on CP, with full interaction who will manage it? As I've said, If MS has such an interest in CP, they would be putting their money where their mouth is. All their first party games and console exclusives would be crossplay, they would have had a huge push for crossplay in the majority of their third party titles as well.....They would have pushed for crossplatform play between themselves and NIntendo more vigorously too.....not only Sony. MS has a PC/XB ecosystem, how many games are crossplay there? That's all you need to know....
thelastword always has an agenda is every one of these threads, he's the perfect candidate for the ignore list.