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Anyone making a living as a music composer/songwriter?

T

Toparaman

Banned
If so, are you living comfortably?
When did you start writing/composing music, and how long did it take to start breaking even?
Did you ever hit a "wall" in terms of your income (i.e. your income stopped increasing after a certain point in your career)?
Do you worry about A.I. taking your job?
Did you have a white-collar desk job prior to your music career?

Feel free to answer as few or as many questions as you'd like. In case it isn't obvious, I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my career, and trying to decide what to do next.
 
L

LayLa

Member
both of my brothers make a living as musicians.
they spent years making records (mainly dance/techno/house) to some acclaim and very little money.
then one of their tracks was used in a christmas TV advertising campaign. the royalties were huge!
so they stopped releasing records and started making "library" music for major record companies. these aren't (usually) released on CDs but used in the background of TV shows or TV theme tunes or film soundtracks or video games or... you get the idea.
so if you want to make money from music write the theme tune to a TV series that is shown worldwide for years to come!
 
F

Fugu

Member
I made some attempt at this. My degree is in music and I've done a lot of composing over the years. Some general observations...

- It's really difficult to get paid. Not many people like to pay for art, and not many people like to be told that your services are not free. This goes double if you don't already have a lot of clout and/or a really compelling portfolio.
- This would be just about the worst side gig ever. Composing music for any kind of professional project is not a small task, nor is actually getting it made.
- The professional working composer isn't at all like what I think most people imagine it to be like. The fact is that most people who collect composing royalties do so (semi-)incidentally by producing a lot of music and then having that music picked up for background music in a commercial or something. If your goal is to, like, write film scores or work on videogames you'd better be prepared to be in the trenches looking for gigs. You'd also best be prepared to invest some of your own time and money.
- Composing is a skill. Nobody is just good at it unless the idiom you want to work in is something really basic, like pop music. It also happens to be a very exhausting skill that involves a lot of time and effort. I love composing, but just because you like (writing) music doesn't mean that this is the career for you. Similarly, don't expect to be able to write something meaningful and good for an orchestra if you've never written anything for an orchestra.

It's a tough gig. I don't do it as a means of making money any more, although I continue to write music and I try to keep my ear to the ground for ways to collaborate with other artists for money.
 
D

disappeared

Banned
I love this

VYRJFHZ.png
Click to expand...
 
D

disappeared

Banned
Mango for what it's worth I lived in a house a couple years ago with two local singer/songwriters. Both of them were fairly popular in the local circuit and had tons of social presence. They recorded at home and played live gigs whenever they weren't working their day jobs. On good nights they'd clear maybe a couple hundred dollars with their drinks paid for on a night. But as it is neither of them could survive off their art alone. If we're talking the local scene then you have to be really, really, really outstanding to be able to climb the ladder. And it takes a lot of work. I saw one local band here actually break out and get backed by a label enough so they got to tour cross country and even into Europe for a stint but it's sort of a combination of talent and sheer luck.

The long and short of it is you need to put in a lot of work and hope somebody notices you.
 
J

jb1234

Member
Like most artistic careers, your success is mostly dependent on how good at networking you are. And luck. Professional training may be necessary depending on what idiom you're writing for (especially classical instruments).

Most of my composer friends have day jobs (often music teaching).
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
The music industry, like many, seems pretty exploitative, even if you work at a big studio. Ron Wasserman, the legendary composer who did all the music for Power Rangers, never got a single credit for it during his time there. Which is a pretty shitty thing to do. I mean, maybe not getting royalties is one thing, but not even getting a credit? That's horseshit. And apparently its seems pretty common, and even people like Hans Zimmer do that shit.
 
Clockwork5

Clockwork5

Member
Not as a songwriter/composer but as a touring musician I was able to eek out a PB&J "living" for a couple years.

That was playing to packed bars every night walking out with a couple hundred bucks that mostly went to gas, hotels and PB&J.
 
M

MilShap

Member
I have been able to definitely make some extra spending money by posting some tracks to music libraries. Gigging for me has never payed all the bills, teaching helps to fill those gaps. I have a B.A. & M.A. in music.

I will echo the others who have said that it is all about networking, I think sometimes even more so than putting in the time.

Places like Pond5 do not pay well by any means, but if you are recording alot of music then putting a few tracks in there can potentially pay for some groceries.
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
It depends on what you mean as composer/songwriter.

I worked for a number of years as a composer scoring commercials and TV shows.

While I loved being able to write music for a living it was a very up and down job. You were asked most of time to pitch on commercial work which often meant you got paid nothing or very little unless you landed the job. Even with big agencies.

When jobs were coming money was good but you could go weeks or months without landing a job which meant managing money was hard. Even when you got the gig it could takes weeks to get paid.

Residuals for TV are cool though. I'm still getting paid for stuff I wrote over 10-15 years ago. Not enough to live off because I didn't do many shows but enough for having a bit of fun money every 3 months.

One of the things you can do is look into putting your music up on a service which provides stock music for TV and film producers to use.
 
T

Toparaman

Banned
So many great responses. Thank you all so much.

electr8r, I liked the music you posted. Hope you're able to keep doing what you love.

I'm going to stay in the tech industry for now. My passion is more in the creative arts, but I guess that's life. Can't complain when I'm getting well paid for somewhat engaging work, with reasonable hours.

OEM said:
wait how can A.I take over composing and song writing?
Click to expand...

Do a google search; it's already starting to happen, and the results are surprisingly good. I strongly suspect music will be the first of the creative arts to be automated, at least when it comes to soundtracks and background music.

There are already A.I.-composed tracks that could easily pass as human-composed (see: anything composed by Jukedeck, a service that offers custom-made music composed by A.I.).

But the really interesting tracks are the ones that sound a little off. If you ever wondered what the uncanny valley sounds like (also probably the soundtrack for the inevitable robot takeover):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSHZ_b05W7o

Here's another semi-creepy one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUs6CznN8pw
 
A

AMUSIX

Member
Worked for years doing both audio engineering and music composition for various companies in the game industry. Would not suggest music as a field to go into unless you're willing to really give up almost everything. I got by because my girlfriend let me live at her place and eat food from her work for free. To get around, it was a bike or walk or bum rides from friends, and, to be honest, I shoplifted a lot.

As for getting into the work, it was a complete fluke. Tried for months to get a job anywhere, and was turned down. Put together as strong a portfolio as I could, and shopped it around for hours every day for weeks. Then, seemingly out of the blue, I got a hit, and then another, and another. Turns out a tiny company I had interned for had recently gotten a huge middle-ware contract in the industry, and because their name showed up on my CV, it opened doors.

There was no way to plan for that, no effort on my part that would have helped it...just pure, dumb luck. So, yeah, you can try and try and try...but it's really out of your hands...
 
J

Jellycrackers

Member
Mango Madness said:
If so, are you living comfortably?
When did you start writing/composing music, and how long did it take to start breaking even?
Did you ever hit a "wall" in terms of your income (i.e. your income stopped increasing after a certain point in your career)?
Do you worry about A.I. taking your job?
Did you have a white-collar desk job prior to your music career?

Feel free to answer as few or as many questions as you'd like. In case it isn't obvious, I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my career, and trying to decide what to do next.
Click to expand...

I can't answer some of your questions because I haven't been at it long enough. But I've just crossed over what I'd consider a "living wage" for the first time for a single year.

I'm 26 now, and I first got interested in composing when I was 18. However I didn't start actually pursuing it as a career until about 3 years ago when I was approached by a TV music library. Only just now the quarterly royalties have reached a good point where I could live off of just those. It takes forever to build up and snowball.

I always wanted to be a video game composer, but I've gotten more and more into the library composing world because its easier to do while living in the cheap midwest and there is less legal crap to try and work out with devs that are (in my experience) mostly young, immature, and budgetless. Royalties are a weird way of getting paid (quarterly only, never knowing how much until the bank deposit shows up) but they build up into a nice cushion of passive income as long as you keep feeding the machine consistently. Most of the music that makes me money is dumb and silly TV underscore genres like Hip Hop Drama and Heavy Elimination Tension. However this yeah I have also enteres the movie/game trailer market and made a little money from that too. Hopefully it will get bigger now that I'm recently with another publisher.

I'm not worried about AI replacing what I do. My wife also works so she helped support me when I was just getting started. I did library music alongside a full time job for 1 year, and alongside a part time job for 2 years (about to officially quit the part time job now). Both jobs were graphic design related. Its been a long 3 years, but I know it takes most people doing library music even longer, so I'm counting my blessings. This year my income has been about 66% broascast TV royalties, and the rest a mixture of a few small custom scoring gigs (low budget games and short films), sales from RF sites like pond5.com, and writing music software review articles for a website.

I'm happy to answer any other questions. Like I said I'm just now going full time at the end of this year, but I have 3 years worth of working at it to share.
 
R

Rock And Roll

Member
Been playing bar gigs/cruise ships/hotel circuit for years now. If you want to make a living off of music, your best bet is gigging and teaching. You can make a career out of composing but there are fewer opportunities and generally it's going to take a long time before you can do it as a main source of income.
 
sephiroth7x

sephiroth7x

Member
I cant speak specifically for music but I know that all successes in any kind of art form are pure luck....

It doesn't matter how good you are, it doesn't matter how insanely talented you are, if you have that dash of luck on your side things will fit into place.

I know writers (fiction etc) who are superb, and thier books amazing, who don't get anywhere but stuff like Harry Potter (which isn't the pinnacle of writing by any means) manages to break records and people go into frenzy.

Bands who write some of the greatest music in a genre, but don't ever manage to be in the right place at the right time, or someone hear their music at the time it needs to be. Yet some shitty band can get signed because they played one gig where the right person was...

I have seen it so many times... and a lot of us stand back and think 'How?'...

(Don't get me wrong, some of the stupidly over the top talented people are picked purely on merit, but this is so rare in the circles I am in).
 
V

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
Fugu said:
I made some attempt at this. My degree is in music and I've done a lot of composing over the years. Some general observations...

- It's really difficult to get paid. Not many people like to pay for art, and not many people like to be told that your services are not free. This goes double if you don't already have a lot of clout and/or a really compelling portfolio.
- This would be just about the worst side gig ever. Composing music for any kind of professional project is not a small task, nor is actually getting it made.
- The professional working composer isn't at all like what I think most people imagine it to be like. The fact is that most people who collect composing royalties do so (semi-)incidentally by producing a lot of music and then having that music picked up for background music in a commercial or something. If your goal is to, like, write film scores or work on videogames you'd better be prepared to be in the trenches looking for gigs. You'd also best be prepared to invest some of your own time and money.
- Composing is a skill. Nobody is just good at it unless the idiom you want to work in is something really basic, like pop music. It also happens to be a very exhausting skill that involves a lot of time and effort. I love composing, but just because you like (writing) music doesn't mean that this is the career for you. Similarly, don't expect to be able to write something meaningful and good for an orchestra if you've never written anything for an orchestra.

It's a tough gig. I don't do it as a means of making money any more, although I continue to write music and I try to keep my ear to the ground for ways to collaborate with other artists for money.
Click to expand...

Everything he said. Plus, if you arent shit hot on theory and sound design, and arent great at midi orchestration, and dont have the network, then it will be bloody tough to compete with those that do, who are invested in the career as a matter of survival rather than as a life choice.

Aside from composition, I think it is difficult to make a living out of music in any form, given that traditional ways of monetising it have fallen away, and given the tsunami of freely given, freely available, stuff out there by talented amateurs
 
D

Draerf

Member
I work in music composition and production. My number 1 piece of advice to give you is to make some friends ASAP. The lions share of your clientele and job opportunities are going to come from friends, not strangers on the internet approaching you.
 
L

Lubricus

Member
From the US Department of Labor:

Pay
The median annual wage for music directors and composers was $50,110 in May 2016.

Job Outlook
Employment of music directors and composers is projected to grow 3 percent from 2014 to 2024, slower than the average for all occupations. The number of people attending musical performances, such as symphonies and concerts, and theatrical performances, such as ballets and musical theater, is expected to increase moderately. Despite expected growth, tough competition for jobs is anticipated because of the large number of people interested in entering this field.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/entertainment-and-sports/music-directors-and-composers.htm
 
L

lazygecko

Member
I know a few people who make a living composing for games, TV, etc.

Truth be told, I don't envy them and the shit they have to deal with.
 
N

nynt9

Member
Most musicians I know and work with who do it for a living do production and teaching for a majority of their income.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
I've only had small gigs that doesn't pay the big bills but I haven't really pursued the whole thing aggressively. It's a pretty hard gig in my opinion. The willingness for people to actually pay for music, which without their products would be almost nothing, is astoundingly low. Music and sound makes up a HUGE part of their products (if we're talking about games or films/tv here) so you'd think they'd be willing to actually pay for it, but no. The amount of companies who could pay a fair fee for the music but try their damnest not to is pretty big. A lot of people are always trying to get the music done for pretty much nothing while happily pumping tens of thousands of dollars into shitty facebook marketing campaigns that in the end fails to generate any revenue for them. Seen that happen a few times.

I love composing and producing music but the idea of being able to do it for a living seems almost alien. I'm thinking I should be looking into the whole library music thing in order to get some bonus spending money because even these small paying gigs are so rare.

It's funny, at first I wanted to become a game developer because that's something i've always done on some level but then my passion turned to producing soundtracks, but now becoming a game developer seems easy as fuck compared to becoming a composer for a living :D
 
J

Jellycrackers

Member
I see a lot of people saying the word "art" in here... the people who make a living are generally those who treat it as a craft, not an art.

Most of the music that makes money is pretty dumb and not the kind of music I actually like. But what sets most working composers apart is the ability to buckle down and work and deliver what the client wants, rather than their own "art". The reality of working in pretty much any creative field is that you'll generally be producing something that pleases the masses, and not always yourself. It's not ideal, but still beats any office job I've ever had.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
Jellycrackers said:
I see a lot of people saying the word "art" in here... the people who make a living are generally those who treat it as a craft, not an art.

Most of the music that makes money is pretty dumb and not the kind of music I actually like. But what sets most working composers apart is the ability to buckle down and work and deliver what the client wants, rather than their own "art". The reality of working in pretty much any creative field is that you'll generally be producing something that pleases the masses, and not always yourself. It's not ideal, but still beats any office job I've ever had.
Click to expand...

Yep. Also, if you're the kind of composer who requires "inspiration", you won't make it in the field. You deliver when you need to deliver, inspiration be damned. You can't rely on it in order to produce presentable material.
 
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