What did he mean by this?
Member
One of those normal crunch time mental breakdowns, not one from abuse!
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Kotaku: Former and current ND employees about the allegations
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
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One of those normal crunch time mental breakdowns, not one from abuse!
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Even then it's illagal in some countries and probably states to record someone without their consent. It's why when your talking to customer service they tell you that the call is being recorded.
Serenitynow
Member
I reckon this is as far as this goes, then.
I mean they would have had to let him know not to "talk" about anything that went on right? I mean that's evidence right there of them forcing him to keep his mouth shut about unethical behavior at the company.
But i see your point, they may not have even stated it in a non vague way.
Because of an article that doesn't prove anything definitive one way or another? Huh?
DongBeetle
Banned
Imagine being so far up a company's ass that you just automatically dismiss sexual harassment accusations
whatsinaname
Member
They are essentially providing positive references for ND and ND's culture. Why would they not name themselves?
ND doesn't reveal internal information about the email directly and their employees release it anonymously? I don't think that is a good look at all.
Just capitalism working as intended, extremely normal and good.
Because they don't have to?
The information that Ballard may have actually been fired due to a hostile email of course doesnt mean no harassment against him took place.
But it absolutely weakens his case that he was fired for claiming he was harassed.
Also, for those keeping track at home, everyone who claimed He must be telling the truth, what motivation would he have to lie?.... well, you now have a hypothetical answer. He wants to get back at a company who fired him for an offense that probably makes it difficult to get another industry job.
Now, once again, that doesnt mean he wasnt the victim of sexual harassment. And certainly a desire to get back at ND doesnt make the allegation false.
But he claimed to have been fired right away making his claim and was told the company was moving in another direction. If theres evidence hes not telling me truth about that, of course it calls the entire allegation into question.
Which is why the seemingly more reasonable amongst us argued for time and more information before the court of public opinion renders a verdict.
(AND AGAIN, doesnt somehow prove he wasnt harassed, for the record. Since thats not the argument Im making)
But it absolutely weakens his case that he was fired for claiming he was harassed.
Also, for those keeping track at home, everyone who claimed He must be telling the truth, what motivation would he have to lie?.... well, you now have a hypothetical answer. He wants to get back at a company who fired him for an offense that probably makes it difficult to get another industry job.
Now, once again, that doesnt mean he wasnt the victim of sexual harassment. And certainly a desire to get back at ND doesnt make the allegation false.
But he claimed to have been fired right away making his claim and was told the company was moving in another direction. If theres evidence hes not telling me truth about that, of course it calls the entire allegation into question.
Which is why the seemingly more reasonable amongst us argued for time and more information before the court of public opinion renders a verdict.
(AND AGAIN, doesnt somehow prove he wasnt harassed, for the record. Since thats not the argument Im making)
Serenitynow
Member
No one seems able to corroborate and it doesnt appear Ballard wants to add anything further.
family_guy
Member
Whether or not there was actual harassment, it does raise more awareness of how working in the game industry can break you down. If the industry needs to crash before working conditions get better, then let it crash.
DarkConfidant
Member
Well this situation sucks even more. Sounds like Ballard had even more awful stuff going on in addition to the harassment. 
Didn't seem that positive. The people were pretty sure somebody had a breakdown because of said culture.
It wasn't a question of whether the culture has issues, but instead a confusion of which issued caused the person to leave.
Didn't seem that positive. The people were pretty sure somebody had a breakdown because of said culture.
It wasn't a question of whether the culture has issues, but instead a confusion of which issued caused the person to leave.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
This article really says nothing about the actual situation, just that three others are surprised. All it is doing is giving people yelling fraudulent claims! What a liar! More ammunition. Really disappointed that this ran. Need to see Kotaku dig deeper. Its understandable if they cant, but not just settle for a surface level article like this.
Also, crunch will fuck you up. Bad shit. But thats not to be confused with dealing with trauma. Its not something you can handwave away.
Also, crunch will fuck you up. Bad shit. But thats not to be confused with dealing with trauma. Its not something you can handwave away.
Yeah, yeesh.
I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the attitudes and assumptions people here are making in response to the mention of a/the mental breakdown.
1.) Emotional events from any number of causes and appearances are casually called "mental breakdowns," which makes this very tricky piece of information in the first place. How casually people brush off that it was "merely" horrible, untenable working conditions should be an enourmous red flag alone, totally apart from the accusation.
2.) What people call a "mental breakdown" is often CAUSED by the sort of unaddressed trauma involved in the accusation.
3.) What people call a "mental breakdown" doesn't cause you to become a monster movie craaazyyyy lying person. This suggestion that they can't be trusted or that it harms their "credibility" because of their state of mind is malignant on a disturbing level.
1.) Emotional events from any number of causes and appearances are casually called "mental breakdowns," which makes this very tricky piece of information in the first place. How casually people brush off that it was "merely" horrible, untenable working conditions should be an enourmous red flag alone, totally apart from the accusation.
2.) What people call a "mental breakdown" is often CAUSED by the sort of unaddressed trauma involved in the accusation.
3.) What people call a "mental breakdown" doesn't cause you to become a monster movie craaazyyyy lying person. This suggestion that they can't be trusted or that it harms their "credibility" because of their state of mind is malignant on a disturbing level.
bitbydeath
Member
If a lesson is to be learned here it is to record and report everything that doesnt sit well with you, better yet inform colleagues as it happens too.
It's why everyone should read Jason's book.
Baroquemantic
Member
Really hope more current and former ND employees come forward to help paint a better picture. I don't at all doubt David was harassed, but I need more info.
PuppetMaster
Member
I agree the hostile email Ballard sent is a form of bullying and harrasment. And unfortunately that kind behavior implies a lot about the person. Because we all know people like that in the workplace.
jellies_two
Member
You keep framing it as us vs them; and demanding sides be taken on scraps of information, otherwise someone is a nut? I don't work for ND and won't make up my mind on (what? Who?) based on what I have read so far.
I have no opinion other than I hope anyone guilty of anything wrong doesn't get away with it, and an opinion that this news appears to be a hot button for some.
Complicated
Banned
So we now know that something happened. It's pretty sad when the best case scenario is that the poor working conditions at Naughty Dog led to a mental breakdown and a person losing their job. I suppose that's better than either Sony, Naughty Dog, or both covering up sexual harassment and trying to pay an employee hush money as you boot them out the door.
"what was he wearing in the office on a daily basis? How do we know he wasnt inviting this kind of behavior onto himself?"
Its still the most likely scenario. Being mentally stressed doesnt cause you to outright lie about shit like this. Its a serious accusation nobody would say just because they want to "get back" at a company that had wronged them somehow, they would obviously know they would be investigated and had a spotlight shined on them about their accusations
Well it seems like your mind is already made up (based solely on a twitter accusation) , so why bother discussing it any further?
He claims he was fired for making a harassment claim. But you think a hostile email sent to apparently the entire company is irrelevant and part of a playbook.
Hope youre never on a jury.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
If this was not their first rodeo which I doubt it was almost certainly the case. All of this has been already accounted for. It's obviously not always infallible but you need a good lawyer to find those flaws and they cost money.
When you enter employment of a large corporation you have to very aware of the sorts traps they've laid fir these sorts of situations. This is a day to say occurrence for them but not for you. Your going to need to be extremely prepared on the slightest hint of things going pear-shaped. There's many reasons why do many harrassment case go un-reported. The odds are not in your favour in a lot of countries/states etc.
I don't think anyone speaking from Naughty Dog intended this, but considering the possibility that the mental breakdown may have been rooted in the sexual harassment, the people using it to cast doubt do remind me of every "see, it's your fault I'm abusing you" shtick I've ever heard.
(To be clear, I'm not claiming to be a victim of sexual harassment or the like here, but I've met a lot of assholes and they do that.)
A common thing you are advised on by legal counsel is not to talk to the press or post on social media as to not bury your own case. If Ballard stays silent weeks after Jason's piece with no move one way or another then you may have a point. It's too early to make a call that this is "as far as it goes", as you said. This story was just published today.
Because that's what happening here?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Same reason your reviews posted on Glassdoor are anonymous. No one wants to be publicly outed about sharing company drama, good or bad. With the situation still in flux, you definitely dont want to come out making hot takes with your name attached.
Theslammer
Member
To those saying they weren't expecting this turn in the story:
I'm actually surprised this didn't appear to be a possibility to many in the other thread. When he was out of work for that long, I wondered if something else could have prevented him from finding a job, like something he did at ND. It's happened to people I know: workers who messed up, didn't do well, etc. That person would leave, get terminated, what have you, said person would try to find another job, and then when prospective employers called their previous employer, they'd decide not to hire. That there are work-related issues ND employees are alleging seemed a reasonable possibility.
Of course, I'd also caution people not to automatically jump on this, either, in relation to Ballard, and I'd also urge people to read the whole article and not just snippets.
I'm actually surprised this didn't appear to be a possibility to many in the other thread. When he was out of work for that long, I wondered if something else could have prevented him from finding a job, like something he did at ND. It's happened to people I know: workers who messed up, didn't do well, etc. That person would leave, get terminated, what have you, said person would try to find another job, and then when prospective employers called their previous employer, they'd decide not to hire. That there are work-related issues ND employees are alleging seemed a reasonable possibility.
Of course, I'd also caution people not to automatically jump on this, either, in relation to Ballard, and I'd also urge people to read the whole article and not just snippets.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Imagine being so wrapped up in feelings and emotions that youre unable to make level and reasoned conclusions when presented with next to no evidence of said accusations, and resort to pitchforks and conclusion jumping as a first reaction.
DongBeetle
Banned
Yes I have seen several people do so. One even did so with the reasoning that "humans aren't perfect"
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I mean even if he was a model employee of what went down actually happened. I'm not sure Sony HR would be giving him a glowing reference regardless.
And people say corporate culture in America is just fine the way it is? The employee has virtually no power alongside unions and other things getting destroyed over the past few decades
Its 2017, the year of alternative facts, misinformation, and pitchforks.
Only is this climate can We want more facts and information before forming an opinion be seen as being up a companys ass and dismissing harassment allegations.
A fundamental inability to see the difference between No harassment occurred here and I cant be sure harassment occurred here but I want more information
Brotherhood93
Member
What exactly are you referring to here? One of the employees even said they believe him. What is the defence? That they didn't know? Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't but if saying they didn't know is worthy of criticism there really is nothing they can say without drawing criticism regardless of the truth.
DongBeetle
Banned
If you don't think you're targeted by my post then why take it personally? If you're simply waiting for more info and treating both sides fairly then you aren't the issue
ElephantShell
Banned
Let's not forget that at the end of the day this is a personal matter for Ballard and whoever else is involved. We could wait forever for details to emerge that may never come since there is no requirement for either side to say anything publically. This could end up being settled by the involved parties in a private matter and we may never know any more than we do now, but that silence shouldn't push you to believe one side or the other. We might have to just accept that we'll never know the full story and we don't really have the right to.
Complicated
Banned
I'm definitely not going to speculate on the likely responses of a victim of abuse or someone who is mentally exhausted. I have no idea about either, and no personal or second-hand knowledge to speak of on either issue. I will believe the person over the corporation until that no longer becomes reasonable every time though, and no person has come forward to deny Ballards' accusations.
Imagine that it was someone you knew who was making the allegations and then remember that above anything else including the media corporations that make video games that there is a person involved. If he is lying for attention (not proven by this article by any stretch) or otherwise then Ballard's mental problems go deeper than I would want to understand or empathize with.
Theslammer
Member
True, but if he was troublesome, and three pointed to something that could easily lead to termination in many companies, then ND would definitely be within reason not to give him a glowing reference. People need to consider both possibilities, especially in light of this new information.
I know someone who got transferred for sending a chain letter to the entire company. I think they wanted to fire him. Something about misuse of computer systems.
If he really did that with the email... That's not a good look.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
You aren't likely to ever get that sort of information in these of cases. There's also the stats of the low success rates when taken to court because getting the evidence to actually prove it is very difficult despite the sexual harassment stats collect by people polled.
I'm not saying they're right but there'a a very good reason why these attitudes developed for these types of cases.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
This is correct, and many folks want to ignore that to see which side wins
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
One thing of note, and that likely happens at all these crunch happt places, is that mental breakdown probably caused also by the work environment, pressure, and schedule is not a cause for protecting the employee and helping him/her restore his/her health, but a reasonable explanation for letting that person go. First they push you with work till you break and the they throw you away?!? Then again, maybe HR got involved too late and maybe for the company there is an unsaid and accepted by all culture of if you fall down you are out...
I'm referring to the piece painting him as being under strain, having a mental breakdown, and thus that being used as a reason for why he was fired and/or potentially lied about sexual harrassment. My point being that in the cases of sexual harrassment, it is not uncommon to suddenly see media stories about a person that denigrates their personal integrity in some way or another. See what Harvey Weinstein and his company used to do for example. It's an old as time trick used by lawyers and others in and out of court to discredit woman as being crazy, whores, drug addicts, etc., when they claim sexual harrassment.
For the record I have no idea who is the right here, if there are more/similar people out there with the same kind of grievance against Sony, I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action. I just find this story rather interesting from the perspective of what often happens with sexual harrassment, albeit in this case it being done to a man.
And no, I'm not pointing fingers at Kotaku by saying this.
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