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zeldablue · Jan 17, 2017

SillyNonsense said:
This reminds me of the plot of Yu-Gi-Oh with the wishy-washy reincarnation. Certain characters that existed in ancient times developed a sort of eternal rivalry. Couple thousand years later they get born again and rekindle those rivalries.
Except some of them end up meeting the spirits of their predecessors. They are distinct from each other with different "souls" and personalities, but with similar appearances and lives.

Right idea?

That's pretty neat. I was not aware of that before. So with each new game there is not only a question of timeline, but also of whether the Link is an existing Link or a new one. Is that right? Do any Links/Zeldas/Ganons ever gain memories from a previous version?

I'm assuming that people have gathered from trailers that this game has a new Link from the way people talk about it. Or is that still up in the air too?

Zelda seems to remember "past lives" better. In Skyward Sword Zelda regains memories of her past life as a Goddess...I'm assuming other Zeldas have the same divine power to gaze into past lives better than Link ever could. I like to take the reincarnation thing loosely though. For Zelda, she just shares the same divine blood as the other Zeldas which is how she can "remember."

For Link...it's suppose to be his unbreakable heroic spirit that relates him to other Links. In The Wind Waker, ancient characters would address Link as if he was the Hero of Time reborn and Link would just stand there with a confused look on his face. The King of Red Lions seems to believe TWW Link has no relation and is not a reincarnation of Ocarina of Time Link. But...I mean, even if it was the same Link's spirit, he still wouldn't remember his past life. :\

I don't think BoTW link is the same as OoT/MM Link. I think they're probably closely related though...and I'm thinking maybe the Hero of Time will have some sort of presence some where some how, kinda like the Hero's Shade.

Enduin · Jan 17, 2017

SillyNonsense said:
That's pretty neat. I was not aware of that before. So with each new game there is not only a question of timeline, but also of whether the Link is an existing Link or a new one. Is that right? Do any Links/Zeldas/Ganons ever gain memories from a previous version?

I'm assuming that people have gathered from trailers that this game has a new Link from the way people talk about it. Or is that still up in the air too?

Not really, but kind of. Zelda in Skyward Sword is technically the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia, so after going through some trials she regains those memories and powers. But it never happens in any other game. Partly because that's the last main game in the series to come out, but it's the first in the timeline, so it's a mess cause they're establishing stuff for over a dozen games that follow it up but already came out without ever contemplating this apparent connection. Hylia never existed in the Zelda series until SS.

Ganondorf is always Ganondorf. He's either just always sealed away for a long time and reemerges or he gets resurrected, not reborn or reincarnated or anything. So he's always just himself, not some new person.

There is a chance this Link is a previous Link we've played as, namely OoT's Link, but it's up in the air right now. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.

Vibed · Jan 17, 2017

SillyNonsense said:
This reminds me of the plot of Yu-Gi-Oh with the wishy-washy reincarnation. Certain characters that existed in ancient times developed a sort of eternal rivalry. Couple thousand years later they get born again and rekindle those rivalries.
Except some of them end up meeting the spirits of their predecessors. They are distinct from each other with different "souls" and personalities, but with similar appearances and lives.

Right idea?

That's pretty neat. I was not aware of that before. So with each new game there is not only a question of timeline, but also of whether the Link is an existing Link or a new one. Is that right? Do any Links/Zeldas/Ganons ever gain memories from a previous version?

I'm assuming that people have gathered from trailers that this game has a new Link from the way people talk about it. Or is that still up in the air too?

Basically, yes. Each Link is their own character. They do not share memories with other Links but they do share the same heroic destiny (with a few exceptions like WW Link). The only occasion a Link meets another Link is the Hero's Shade of OoT meeting TP Link. Sometimes other characters meet multiple Links like Niko in WW/PH/ST.

Since the legends are typically hundreds of years apart from each other, a lot of times we know when a Link is the same as another game. Due to the 100 year mystery here, it is up for debate as to whether this might be OoT Link.

A few times, like in SS, Zelda regains memories of another life (as a goddess), but she is typically an independent character too. However, Ganon is the same character across every single game except one, as he gets sealed away or dies and gets resurrected a lot. The exception is FSA, where he is reincarnated as a seperate character.

Edit: I'm so slow lol

KingBroly · Jan 17, 2017

zeldablue said:
Zelda seems to remember "past lives" better. In Skyward Sword Zelda regains memories of her past life as a Goddess...I'm assuming other Zeldas have the same divine power to gaze into past lives better than Link ever could. I like to take the reincarnation thing loosely though. For Zelda, she just shares the same divine blood as the other Zeldas which is how she can "remember."

For Link...it's suppose to be his unbreakable heroic spirit that relates him to other Links. In The Wind Waker, ancient characters would address Link as if he was the Hero of Time reborn and Link would just stand there with a confused look on his face. The King of Red Lions seems to believe TWW Link has no relation and is not a reincarnation of Ocarina of Time Link. But...I mean, even if it was the same Link's spirit, he still wouldn't remember his past life. :\

I don't think BoTW link is the same as OoT/MM Link. I think they're probably closely related though...and I'm thinking maybe the Hero of Time will have some sort of presence some where some how, kinda like the Hero's Shade.

If TWW Link has no connection to OOT Link, don't you think, if this was between those 2 games, which I think it is, going by TWW's opening depicting Ganon as this dark fog, would try to address?

zeldablue · Jan 17, 2017

Enduin said:
Not really, but kind of. Zelda in Skyward Sword is technically the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia, so after going through some trials she regains those memories and powers. But it never happens in any other game. Partly because that's the last main game in the series to come out, but it's the first in the timeline, so it's a mess cause they're establishing stuff for over a dozen games that follow it up but already came out without ever contemplating this apparent connection. Hylia never existed in the Zelda series until SS.

Ganondorf is always Ganondorf. He's either just always sealed away for a long time and reemerges or he gets resurrected, not reborn or reincarnated or anything. So he's always just himself, not some new person.

There is a chance this Link is a previous Link we've played as, namely OoT's Link, but it's up in the air right now. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.

I just want to point out that Ganondorf actually died in Twilight Princess and was reincarnated as another Gerudo male in Four Swords Adventures. >___>

As of right now there are actually 2 "Ganondorfs."

KingBroly said:
If TWW Link has no connection to OOT Link, don't you think, if this was between those 2 games, which I think it is, going by TWW's opening depicting Ganon as this dark fog, would try to address?

Okay...this has been debated since 2002. Basically...the Hero's spirit doesn't exist in the Adult Timeline. At the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda wanted Link to regain his lost childhood. This both creates the Child's Timeline and ALSO rips Link's soul/spirit/existence out of the Adult Timeline. This means that NONE of the Links in the Adult Timeline have any relation to OoT Link. TWW Link had to prove himself more because of this fact. That is why the King was shocked when the Gods let Link have the Triforce of Courage at the end of TWW.

Anteo · Jan 17, 2017

The one thing that is not clear is if its possible for a non ganon character to be controlled by Demise, the only example we have is Yuga that for some reason, when he becomes the final boss of A Link Between Worlds, you hear the music of the Skyward Sword intro for a few seconds. That to me felt like a reference to Demise, but since Yuga is fused with Ganon it could be just Ganon taking control.

Edit: And TWW Link, Ganondorf refers to him as the reincarnation of the Hero of Time, while the king says he is a completly different person. Given that in that timeline there is no hero not because it died, but because it was removed from existence by a prior Zelda, its unclear if its possible for the hero to return as WW Link or the goddesses just picked up a new random guy to do the work.

13ruce · Jan 17, 2017

Anteo said:
The one thing that is not clear is if its possible for a non ganon character to be controlled by Demise, the only example we have is Yuga that for some reason, when he becomes the final boss of A Link Between Worlds, you hear the music of the Skyward Sword intro for a few seconds. That to me felt like a reference to Demise, but since Yuga is fused with Ganon it could be just Ganon taking control.

Vaati maybe? Thats the only one i can think of that could have had the curse of Demise in him beside yuga and ganondorf.

Talking about Minish Cap.

Lord_Byron28 · Jan 17, 2017

Enduin said:
Ganondorf is always Ganondorf. He's either just always sealed away for a long time and reemerges or he gets resurrected, not reborn or reincarnated or anything. So he's always just himself, not some new person.

Except FSA which does use a new Ganondorf as you kill the one in TP.

The only thing we do know is that if this takes place in between OoT and ALTTP then Ganon will just be sealed away, not killed, at the end of this game.

Enduin · Jan 17, 2017

zeldablue said:
I just want to point out that Ganondorf actually died in Twilight Princess and was reincarnated as another Gerudo male in Four Swords Adventures. >___>

As of right now there are actually 2 "Ganondorfs."

Interesting. Never played Four Swords. Thanks.

Edit: Actually is he really shown to be a different character who also becomes evil and seeks power or is he literally Ganondorf in a new body and he retained all his memories? Wikis aren't very clear on this.

Ms.Galaxy · Jan 17, 2017

Plot Twist: Link in Breath of the Wild is actually the same Link from Zelda CD-i.

Look, Ganon is a strange evil gas being just like in BotW.

Caelus · Jan 17, 2017

Ms.Galaxy said:
Plot Twist: Link in Breath of the Wild is actually the same Link from Zelda CD-i.

Makes sense - up until now, the only Zelda games with voice acting.

Anteo · Jan 17, 2017

13ruce said:
Vaati maybe? Thats the only one i can think of that could have had the curse of Demise in him beside yuga and ganondorf.

Talking about Minish Cap.

That's definitely possible, but I think Nintendo would have to make it canon somehow in another game as there is not a single hint (for obvious reasons) that Demise has any relation to Vaati.

jdstorm · Jan 17, 2017

Sheroking said:
Nintendo has more aggressively prioritized the timeline over the last 5-10 years. This theory doesn't fit with their approach.

Sure it does. Say BotW is set after Spirit Tracks but before Skyward Sword. It closes the loop on that branch of the timeline and Nintendo can say certain actions repeat but when they do things play out slightly different each time.

RagnarokX · Jan 17, 2017

Skittzo0413 said:
Wait, so Zeltik's translation of the map is incorrect or has added speculation? I wasn't aware of that.

Yeah. I made a translation of the parts that were readable a couple of days before Zeltik's and his version adds details that aren't actually there and changes details.

The actual translation of the parts I did are:

The name of the calamity transmitted in Hyrule is Ganon.

The Hero and the Holy Princess sealed it.

Divine beasts awoke from 4 directions and deployed a mechanical army.

These powers led to the sealing of Ganon.

In the end, the Sheikah scattered.

It doesn't say the Hero and Princess failed and it doesn't say the Sheikah were banished. Those details are conjecture and don't fit with what we know of the plot (Zelda sealed Ganon, Sheikah helped, why would they be exiled? The old man talks of the Sheikah fondly.)

They translated parts I didn't because they were too blurry, but considering the liberties they took with the stuff that was perfectly legible I'm not sure how much of it can be trusted.

Enduin said:
I agree with that sentiment, but the issue remains that Hyrule Historia is pretty clear about the events of the Imprisoning War. Link failed, but Zelda and Sages prevailed, albeit only for a time. Sacred Realm was corrupted and a gateway to it was found which people seduced by the stories of the Triforce went through and were corrupted by it. They tried to find a hero worthy of wielding the Master Sword to confront Ganon but none was found. Ganon used them as an army to invade Hyrule but was repulsed by the Knights of Hyrule and once again sealed away by the Seven Sages. The end.

To have this game detail those events you'd basically have to rewrite that whole entry in the timeline.

It's the same kind of folly that fans who use to, and some who still do, keep asking for a WW prequel to show the fall of Hyrule. The entire point of these events was the fact that no hero was present. The people of Hyrule and the Sages repelled Ganon on their own and on the other side the people could not repel him and so the Gods intervened. To throw Link in there to actually play the central role defeats the whole purpose of the following games. They are the Links that rise to "finally" defeat the great evil of the past.

Hyrule Historia is vague enough in that particular spot to allow BotW. It says Zelda sealed Ganon, and then centuries later the imprisoning war happened, and then centuries after that ALttP happened. BotW can easily occur in the centuries between OoT and the Imprisoning War without affecting either event. The increase in reliance on Sheikah tech may have been a response to the Hero of Time's failure; can't count on the Hero.

zeldablue · Jan 17, 2017

Enduin said:
Interesting. Never played Four Swords. Thanks.

Edit: Actually is he really shown to be a different character who also becomes evil and seeks power or is he literally Ganondorf in a new body and he retained all his memories? Wikis aren't very clear on this.

You never see Ganon as a human in FSA. Instead you visit a Gerudo Village and the women tell you that they had a male Gerudo who became more evil as her grew up. He recently ran away after doing some criminal acts around them.

"Curse that Ganondorf!
He broke our laws and
left for the pyramid...

I don't know what he plans,
but I am worried..." - Random Gerudo Guard.

Ganondorf gets some evil Trident in the Pyramid and then becomes Ganon. I know, I know...it's silly and makes no sense. But this is a reincarnation of Ganondorf.

RagnarokX said:
Hyrule Historia is vague enough in that particular spot to allow BotW. It says Zelda sealed Ganon, and then centuries later the imprisoning war happened, and then centuries after that ALttP happened. BotW can easily occur in the centuries between OoT and the Imprisoning War without affecting either event. The increase in reliance on Sheikah tech may have been a response to the Hero of Time's failure; can't count on the Hero.

I think this makes sense. In Skyward Sword, Impa basically ripped Link a new one when she had to save Zelda instead of Link after the 2nd dungeon. There's a chance Impa or Hylia saw a timeline scenario where Zelda was captured and then decided Impa had to be the mama bear while Link got his act together.

If Link, dressed in his iconic green clothes, were to majorly f*** up, I'd imagine everyone would consider "Chosen Heroes" to be unreliable. that's when the Sheikah swoop in and clean up the mess. It's similar to Skyward Sword but bigger.

The Old Man mentions the Sheikah saving the day...no real mention of any chosen heroes. Hmm.

7roject28 · Jan 17, 2017

Inferno313 said:
True, but when the final trailer draws special attention to the great deku tree and the fact that he knows this Link, I think that's a pretty big clue that this IS a previous Link. And, that his history with the great deku tree is a reference to another game, and not something that's just going to be shown in a flashback in this one.

Are we even sure that was the Deku tree talking to Link about that? Pretty sure it was the King who was talking while they just showed the Deku Tree. Otherwise Zelda is the daughter of the Deku Tree because that same person talked throughout.

Admiral Woofington · Jan 17, 2017

7roject28 said:
Are we even sure that was the Deku tree talking to Link about that? Pretty sure it was the King who was talking while they just showed the Deku Tree. Otherwise Zelda is the daughter of the Deku Tree because that same person talked throughout.

No it wasn't the same person. The voice clearly changes in the English trailer from one old man voice to another adult voice. The second person states "let me tell you what happened 100 years ago" and is the one who says "save my daughter" at the end from what I recall

paragonpro · Jan 17, 2017

I also think this is pre wind waker, in the world where gannon won. And the link you play as is actually the link from oot put into a hyperbolic time chamber. Maybe the game ends with the great flood?

linkboy · Jan 17, 2017

paragonpro said:
I also think this is pre wind waker, in the world where gannon won. And the link you play as is actually the link from oot put into a hyperbolic time chamber. Maybe the game ends with the great flood?

It can't be pre Wind Waker. Ganon didn't "win" because Link failed, he "won" because there was no Link due to Zelda removing him from the timeline at the end of Ocarina.

There's a reason why WW Link had to prove himself to the gods in order to become the hero and claim the triforce.

PrimeBeef · Jan 18, 2017

jdstorm said:
Sure it does. Say BotW is set after Spirit Tracks but before Skyward Sword. It closes the loop on that branch of the timeline and Nintendo can say certain actions repeat but when they do things play out slightly different each time.

Skyward Sword is the first game in the lore. Spirit Tracks is the last game in the Adult timeline lore. It woumd be impossible to be set after ST but before SS.

Admiral Woofington · Jan 18, 2017

Do people seriously think Zelda timeline is a flat circle?

PrimeBeef · Jan 18, 2017

Admiral Woofington said:
Do people seriously think Zelda timeline is a flat circle?

Personlly I think Nintendo should have left fan speculation to fan speculation and ignored and Zelda games being connected unless otherwise stated like LoZ2 to LoZ, MM to OoT, and the spinoffs to WW. However, this multiverse stuff is common in comics and the sci-fi I read it's not hard to follow. I also think some stuff are just nods to other games that have no significance. I could be wrong.

WiiRevolution1 · Jan 18, 2017

So since everyone is talking about it being OoT Link, going on it being the fallen Hero. When Hyrule Historia was made and the timeline was made canon, they could've done Hyrule Historia with the intent of telling and linking the new third fail timeline with the other games that were always hard to make due where they belong.

My guess is the Hero failing is canon. The Shekiah tech was always there and Ganondorf had already corrupted it prior to your final battle in OoT. The end game of BOTW will be going back in time time to stop the corrrupted Guardians from interfering with the final battle in OoT, meaning you create the two other timelines in this game also. Would bring closure to the weird "game over" timeline.

Also if its in the downfall timeline I do hope the next game takes place in the Twilight timeline, or even Wind Waker timeline. Downfall timeline is getting too much love. Twilight timeline hasn't had a new game since 2006.

I still need to play FSA.

Jedi2016 · Jan 18, 2017

While I'm quick to jump on the OoT bandwagon ('cause I think it'd be cool), the mention of Ganon being known "through the ages" seems to discount it, since OoT was his first appearance.

In the flashbacks, it's also notable that Link is not wearing the Hero's tunic, he's just in normal blue Hylian garb. Which seems to lead away from that happening around the end of OoT.

But I did have another thought earlier that's probably bordering on Crazy Town...

At the end of Adventure of Link, the original Zelda, the one that all other Zeldas were named after, was reawoken. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Skyward Sword's Zelda the first, the direct reincarnation of Hylia? Isn't she the one that would eventually be placed in eternal slumber?

... and doesn't BotW's Zelda bear a bit more than a passing resemblance to SS's Zelda? Zeldas are normally recognizable of course, but also unique and easy to tell apart.

Could it be her? Could this be a direct sequel to both AoL and SS?

Fourth Storm · Jan 18, 2017

@Jedi2016 above (sorry, my cursor has a habit of disappearing so adding a quote is difficult):

1) Perhaps the evil of Ganon was known through the ages (e.g. as Demise) even if not by that name.

2)How do we know we are dealing with flashbacks when Link is in the blue shirt?

Enduin said:
That's a viable option in any other situation as they've played around with geography a lot. But the Great Plateau is pretty much without question old Hyrule Castle and Town. Beyond the Temple of Time being there the outline and layout of OoT's Castle Town is clearly present. The Fountain remains, as does the gate into town and the wall surrounding it. Even the small gateway leading up to Hyrule Castle is present.

So we pretty clearly have the existence of an old and new Hyrule Castle and Castle Town in the game.

Hey, thanks for the reply! I like this theory of the Great Plateau being Old Hyrule Castle Town, except it seems like this was ruled out in the last trailer. We see death raining down on Castle Town with the TP-style Hyrule Castle very clearly looming overhead. This tells me that we're only dealing with one Hyrule Castle unless the original was identical to the replacement.

Enduin · Jan 18, 2017

Fourth Storm said:
Hey, thanks for the reply! I like this theory of the Great Plateau being Old Hyrule Castle Town, except it seems like this was ruled out in the last trailer. We see death raining down on Castle Town with the TP-style Hyrule Castle very clearly looming overhead. This tells me that we're only dealing with one Hyrule Castle unless the original was identical to the replacement.

You are correct in that there is only one Hyrule Castle in BotW. The TP style one in the center of the map, north of the Great Plateau, at the top of Hyrule Field. If we are in either the Fallen or Adult timelines the original OoT castle was destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle, which was then destroyed at the end of both with either Link winning or dying. For whatever reason in the Child timeline the OoT Castle and Town disappear as well and are replaced for no apparent reason since they would intact but that's not important.

OoT's Castle Town was also destroyed for the most part at the end of the Fallen/Adult timelines. But it's ruins can still be seen around the Temple of Time in BotW. Like I said the remnants of the fountain is still there, as are some building and road outlines and the gateway to the former location of Hyrule Castle.

At the time of the start of BotW when we see all that crazy black and purple smoke bombs flying everywhere out of TP Hyrule Castle it's Castle Town is still intact. Until we see the lovely swarm of Guardians burning and stomping all over it. We see the fallout of this in the second to last trailer Life in the Ruins. The Original OoT ones are gone, though the Temple of Time is probably still in use or decent repair as a holy site, thus the wrecked Guardians that can be found around it had reason to attack it. Possibly there was also an abbey on the site of the old Hyrule Castle location, as we've seen that site labelled as such on the ingame map, but that was destroyed completely somehow.

That make sense?

CloudyTuba · Jan 18, 2017

zeldablue said:
Zelda seems to remember "past lives" better. In Skyward Sword Zelda regains memories of her past life as a Goddess...I'm assuming other Zeldas have the same divine power to gaze into past lives better than Link ever could. I like to take the reincarnation thing loosely though. For Zelda, she just shares the same divine blood as the other Zeldas which is how she can "remember."

For Link...it's suppose to be his unbreakable heroic spirit that relates him to other Links. In The Wind Waker, ancient characters would address Link as if he was the Hero of Time reborn and Link would just stand there with a confused look on his face. The King of Red Lions seems to believe TWW Link has no relation and is not a reincarnation of Ocarina of Time Link. But...I mean, even if it was the same Link's spirit, he still wouldn't remember his past life. :\

I don't think BoTW link is the same as OoT/MM Link. I think they're probably closely related though...and I'm thinking maybe the Hero of Time will have some sort of presence some where some how, kinda like the Hero's Shade.

Enduin said:
Not really, but kind of. Zelda in Skyward Sword is technically the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia, so after going through some trials she regains those memories and powers. But it never happens in any other game. Partly because that's the last main game in the series to come out, but it's the first in the timeline, so it's a mess cause they're establishing stuff for over a dozen games that follow it up but already came out without ever contemplating this apparent connection. Hylia never existed in the Zelda series until SS.

Ganondorf is always Ganondorf. He's either just always sealed away for a long time and reemerges or he gets resurrected, not reborn or reincarnated or anything. So he's always just himself, not some new person.

There is a chance this Link is a previous Link we've played as, namely OoT's Link, but it's up in the air right now. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.

Vibed said:
Basically, yes. Each Link is their own character. They do not share memories with other Links but they do share the same heroic destiny (with a few exceptions like WW Link). The only occasion a Link meets another Link is the Hero's Shade of OoT meeting TP Link. Sometimes other characters meet multiple Links like Niko in WW/PH/ST.

Since the legends are typically hundreds of years apart from each other, a lot of times we know when a Link is the same as another game. Due to the 100 year mystery here, it is up for debate as to whether this might be OoT Link.

A few times, like in SS, Zelda regains memories of another life (as a goddess), but she is typically an independent character too. However, Ganon is the same character across every single game except one, as he gets sealed away or dies and gets resurrected a lot. The exception is FSA, where he is reincarnated as a seperate character.

Edit: I'm so slow lol

Thanks everyone. I got it.

I know beyond the fourth wall it's just an excuse to keep repeating the same characters in different situations, but I think it's pretty neat. Adds a layer of interest for me. Maybe if I ever get a Switch I'll give BotW a shot.

Admiral Woofington · Jan 18, 2017

Jedi2016 said:
While I'm quick to jump on the OoT bandwagon ('cause I think it'd be cool), the mention of Ganon being known "through the ages" seems to discount it, since OoT was his first appearance.

In the flashbacks, it's also notable that Link is not wearing the Hero's tunic, he's just in normal blue Hylian garb. Which seems to lead away from that happening around the end of OoT.

But I did have another thought earlier that's probably bordering on Crazy Town...

At the end of Adventure of Link, the original Zelda, the one that all other Zeldas were named after, was reawoken. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Skyward Sword's Zelda the first, the direct reincarnation of Hylia? Isn't she the one that would eventually be placed in eternal slumber?

... and doesn't BotW's Zelda bear a bit more than a passing resemblance to SS's Zelda? Zeldas are normally recognizable of course, but also unique and easy to tell apart.

Could it be her? Could this be a direct sequel to both AoL and SS?

??

Skyward Sword Zelda doesn't have much of the same look as this one. SS Zelda had a fairly big nose.

Kyolux · Jan 18, 2017

Jedi2016 said:
While I'm quick to jump on the OoT bandwagon ('cause I think it'd be cool), the mention of Ganon being known "through the ages" seems to discount it, since OoT was his first appearance.

In the flashbacks, it's also notable that Link is not wearing the Hero's tunic, he's just in normal blue Hylian garb. Which seems to lead away from that happening around the end of OoT.

But I did have another thought earlier that's probably bordering on Crazy Town...

At the end of Adventure of Link, the original Zelda, the one that all other Zeldas were named after, was reawoken. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Skyward Sword's Zelda the first, the direct reincarnation of Hylia? Isn't she the one that would eventually be placed in eternal slumber?

... and doesn't BotW's Zelda bear a bit more than a passing resemblance to SS's Zelda? Zeldas are normally recognizable of course, but also unique and easy to tell apart.

Could it be her? Could this be a direct sequel to both AoL and SS?

Would be cool. But I don't think the sleeping Zelda from AoL is the SS Zelda. Unless they retcon the whole, jealous brother, part and details like that I guess.

Anteo · Jan 18, 2017

Jedi2016 said:
While I'm quick to jump on the OoT bandwagon ('cause I think it'd be cool), the mention of Ganon being known "through the ages" seems to discount it, since OoT was his first appearance.

In the flashbacks, it's also notable that Link is not wearing the Hero's tunic, he's just in normal blue Hylian garb. Which seems to lead away from that happening around the end of OoT.

But I did have another thought earlier that's probably bordering on Crazy Town...

At the end of Adventure of Link, the original Zelda, the one that all other Zeldas were named after, was reawoken. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Skyward Sword's Zelda the first, the direct reincarnation of Hylia? Isn't she the one that would eventually be placed in eternal slumber?

... and doesn't BotW's Zelda bear a bit more than a passing resemblance to SS's Zelda? Zeldas are normally recognizable of course, but also unique and easy to tell apart.

Could it be her? Could this be a direct sequel to both AoL and SS?

The original Zelda (if it hasnt been retconned away) probably belongs to the super old kingdom that you can see remains of in Skyward Sword.

Shadoron · Jan 18, 2017

Aren't the original Zelda's on NES considered the most "current" events in the "Hero is Defeated" timeline? With Adventures of Link being the most "modern" (lol) Zelda event?

Enduin · Jan 18, 2017

Anteo said:
The original Zelda (if it hasnt been retconned away) probably belongs to the super old kingdom that you can see remains of in Skyward Sword.

No the Zelda II Sleeping Zelda is from only sometime before the original LoZ. She was the daughter to the last king of the Golden Age in the Downfall timeline that came about after ALttP. It's in Hyrule Historia called "The Tragedy of Princess Zelda I" right before the original LoZ's entry on the timeline. That event is what brought about the Era Decline that LoZ and Zelda II are a part of.

Shadoron said:
Aren't the original Zelda's on NES considered the most "current" events in the "Hero is Defeated" timeline? With Adventures of Link being the most "modern" (lol) Zelda event?

Yes.

Fourth Storm · Jan 18, 2017

Enduin said:
You are correct in that there is only one Hyrule Castle in BotW. The TP style one in the center of the map, north of the Great Plateau, at the top of Hyrule Field. If we are in either the Fallen or Adult timelines the original OoT castle was destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle, which was then destroyed at the end of both with either Link winning or dying. For whatever reason in the Child timeline the OoT Castle and Town disappear as well and are replaced for no apparent reason since they would intact but that's not important.

OoT's Castle Town was also destroyed for the most part at the end of the Fallen/Adult timelines. But it's ruins can still be seen around the Temple of Time in BotW. Like I said the remnants of the fountain is still there, as are some building and road outlines and the gateway to the former location of Hyrule Castle.

At the time of the start of BotW when we see all that crazy black and purple smoke bombs flying everywhere out of TP Hyrule Castle it's Castle Town is still intact. Until we see the lovely swarm of Guardians burning and stomping all over it. We see the fallout of this in the second to last trailer Life in the Ruins. The Original OoT ones are gone, though the Temple of Time is probably still in use or decent repair as a holy site, thus the wrecked Guardians that can be found around it had reason to attack it. Possibly there was also an abbey on the site of the old Hyrule Castle location, as we've seen that site labelled as such on the ingame map, but that was destroyed completely somehow.

That make sense?

None whatsoever, thank you!

Kidding, actually it made me think. Why not 105 so or years after OoT? Perhaps the hero is defeated not by Ganon in the final battle, but shortly after (possibly by a Guardian). This leads to or is a result of Ganon's purposeful unsealing by a third party. This wouldn't be the Imprisoning War either. That would come a century or more after.

WiiRevolution1 · Jan 18, 2017

Jedi2016 said:
In the flashbacks, it's also notable that Link is not wearing the Hero's tunic, he's just in normal blue Hylian garb. Which seems to lead away from that happening around the end of OoT.

That seems like its something that could easily be edited for the trailer. Editing the clothes to keep the surprise that in the final game he's wearing the green tunic.

But if he is wearing the blue clothes in flashback then that leads credence to my other crazy theory: That the real Link, whether its OOT Link or not, really did die in flashbacks. And you are just a random person who sees it happen and/or picks up the Master Sword after the real Link dies. Thas why the Master Sword is rusted, because you aren't Link and its rejecting you.

To go with another theory of playable girl Link, and this has my bias because its my dream, especially in such a huge world as this. At the begining of the game, the person who picks up the sword after Link dies is randomized, atleast between the "Link" we see and the "Zelda". And thats the biggest secret that Anouma has been hiding but subtly hinting at. From the "that may not be Link" at E3 2014 to even pointing out the similarites of Link and Zelda's design on the Switch Treehouse. And as someone thats dreamed about this moment, I have to ask, why do they look so similar? Link and Zelda have NEVER looked so similar to each other, its really similar. If they had showed "Zelda" in the trailer with the same clothes but with sword/shield everyone would immediately go "female Link???" but everyone seems to be ignoring their similarities. In what we believe to be "present" scenes from the trailer she even has Link's trademark sideburns, which she doesn't have in any scene when she's not wearing the blue clothes. If my theory is true these two could easily be siblings where one is put to sleep 100 years to infuse "Courage" and the other "Wisdom" and stories roles are reversed depending on what character you get. Can you imagine starting the game, it saying "Wake up Link" and then a girl wakes up? You'd wonder if your high or something at that point lol.

But Anouma does listen very carefully to fans so he knows at this point people want a playable girl Link. So this could be his way of doing it without actually making a girl Link and ruining his idea of Link. I can even see text from a future game saying "remember that story of BOTW? How did it go? The boy in blue saved the world...or was it the girl in blue? The ancient texts seem to tell the story differently from different sources." (Of course this means she'd likely never show up in another game, but if any game needs a girl Link its this one! RIP in piece girl Link in Smash.)

The end of the game would be completing the previous Link's quest and if OOT, creating the two successful timelines.

Theres just too many similarities between Link's new design and Zelda's new design that I really can't help but to feel like something like this will play out.

III-V · Jan 18, 2017

This is aftwr OOT and it almost repeats the beginning of alttp.

Is it possible that we have entered a 4th timeline?

Yes

Admiral Woofington · Jan 18, 2017

wait so with the translation why do people still think this is the hero of time again?

Vinci · Jan 18, 2017

By no means a Zelda historian, but I'm always curious when it comes to puzzles of one kind or another, so... here it goes:

Fallen Hero Timeline. Link is not the Hero of Time, but an entirely new Link. The Deku Tree referencing past interactions that Link doesn't recall isn't about its interactions with the Hero of Time, but rather, with this new Link's previous attempt to defeat Ganon.

During the battle shown in the 'flashback', it appears that Link was quite seriously injured by a guardian, and the Master Sword was broken. I do not believe that we will play as Link in the past, but rather the past events will be shown to us. Zelda will not travel alongside us at any point.

Following Link's defeat, Zelda takes the Master Sword to the Deku Tree in the Lost Woods to have it repaired over time, while she deposits Link in the Shrine of Resurrection. He will revive once the Master Sword is fully restored and not a moment before, as she fears it will stir Ganon and lead him to Link's body, interrupting the process.

That is, I think Breath of the Wild is a self-contained story, with all references to the past being references to this new Link's failed attempt. I'm skeptical of him being the Hero of Time because of his injuries seemingly being sustained through combat with the guardians, which did not appear in Ocarina of Time at all. Thus, I don't feel that the Hero of Time's failure - leading to the Fallen Hero Timeline - is directly tied to these events beyond it creating the branch in the timeline.

As others have stated, I too believe this to be part of the Sealing War.

That's it. For what it's worth, I'm mostly just going off what I've seen in the videos of Breath of the Wild and my vague memory of the past games. So I'm likely missing many somethings that disprove all of this.

Leeroy3101 · Jan 18, 2017

I think we might end up getting some deal of a merged timeline.

RetroMG · Jan 18, 2017

My guess is that Nintendo hasn't thought about any of this, and this "is but one of the legends of which the people speak." (Wind Waker)

IF it's in the timeline, I agree that it's either in the middle of the Fallen Hero timeline, or after Zelda 2. (Ganon is killed in Zelda 1 and prevented from retaking physical form in Zelda 2 - Maybe that's why he's a force in this game instead of a being?)

tali'zorah84 · Jan 18, 2017

This is probably easily debunked, but it's fun theorising. It may also require ret-conning of certain elements.

Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask -> BOTW -> Twilight Princess

Link is sent back 7 years at the end of OoT to live his life out properly, continues onto Termina. During/after his time in Termina, Hyrule is restructured with some help from the Sheikah, with renewed emphasis on Hylia (statues constructed, ruins of Skyview Spring preserved and excavated). The normally secretive Sheikah allow their technology/magic to prosper amongst Hyrule.

Later, Adult Link (not that one, but grown-up Child Link) and Zelda attempt to seal the Calamity but fail, only for them both to be put in stasis for 100 years. During the sleep, Castle Town is restructured into an early version of the TP layout which is why we can see the fountain in the trailer.

The Sheikah defectors, like the one in the trailer with an upside down Mask of Truth on, are banished for attempting to snatch the Triforce under Ganon's control which is heavily implied to form the beginning of the Twili. As a result, the rest of the Sheikah return to holding a low-profile and hide underground in Shrines.

The Great Deku Tree sprout from Ocarina grows into a full tree, and the Korok's evolve as a result of the stressful apocalyptic times coupled with the Kokiri Forest becoming overgrown and overrun by the Calamity's forces.

The game ends with Link defeating the Calamity once and for all, and it's implied he retires to the forest in which he eventually dies and becomes the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess.

watershed · Jan 18, 2017

RetroMG said:
My guess is that Nintendo hasn't thought about any of this, and this "is but one of the legends of which the people speak." (Wind Waker)

IF it's in the timeline, I agree that it's either in the middle of the Fallen Hero timeline, or after Zelda 2. (Ganon is killed in Zelda 1 and prevented from retaking physical form in Zelda 2 - Maybe that's why he's a force in this game instead of a being?)

I don't understand what you mean with Wind Waker. Every Zelda story is a "legend" that may be partly wrong, interpreted differently, the stories could be all referring to the same events, etc. The Hyrule Historia makes this very clear. But each Zelda story also does have a place in the timeline, Wind Waker included.

zeldablue · Jan 18, 2017

tali'zorah84 said:
This is probably easily debunked, but it's fun theorising. It may also require ret-conning of certain elements.

Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask -> BOTW -> Twilight Princess

Link is sent back 7 years at the end of OoT to live his life out properly, continues onto Termina. During/after his time in Termina, Hyrule is restructured with some help from the Sheikah, with renewed emphasis on Hylia (statues constructed, ruins of Skyview Spring preserved and excavated). The normally secretive Sheikah allow their technology/magic to prosper amongst Hyrule.

Later, Adult Link (not that one, but grown-up Child Link) and Zelda attempt to seal the Calamity but fail, only for them both to be put in stasis for 100 years. During the sleep, Castle Town is restructured into an early version of the TP layout which is why we can see the fountain in the trailer.

The Sheikah defectors, like the one in the trailer with an upside down Mask of Truth on, are banished for attempting to snatch the Triforce under Ganon's control which is heavily implied to form the beginning of the Twili. As a result, the rest of the Sheikah return to holding a low-profile and hide underground in Shrines.

The Great Deku Tree sprout from Ocarina grows into a full tree, and the Korok's evolve as a result of the stressful apocalyptic times coupled with the Kokiri Forest becoming overgrown and overrun by the Calamity's forces.

The game ends with Link defeating the Calamity once and for all, and it's implied he retires to the forest in which he eventually dies and becomes the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess.

I think most of us rule out OoT --> TP because Ganondorf was caught and "executed" in the Child's Timeline. Therefore all throughout OoT, MM and the beginning of TP, Ganondorf was stuck with the Twili trapped thanks to the Mirror of Twilight.

Also for people thinking this Zelda is OoT Zelda...OoT Zelda's father was killed by Ganondorf when she escaped the castle with Impa. But in this trailer we can definitely hear the king, her father speaking.

So I think we can at least rule out direct relationships with OoT's main characters.

WiiRevolution1 · Jan 18, 2017

zeldablue said:
Also for people thinking this Zelda is OoT Zelda...OoT Zelda's father was killed by Ganondorf when she escaped the castle with Impa. But in this trailer we can definitely hear the king, her father speaking.

...why do you think her father is the one speaking? Just because its a old man voice? That could be a side quest or part of the main quest like a Zora asking for help and the old man in the Plateu could easily be someone else. Its a trailer, so its easy to trick using voices. The Deku Tree voice could be someone else, the Zelda voice could be someone else, etc. don't use that to rule out OOT Link/Zelda..

Speaking of voices I feel like the "Zelda" voice and the "Open Your Eyes" voice are different. I know theres lots of echo with the latter, but it still sounds different.

Also will say I really love all the voices so far.

Durock · Jan 18, 2017

zeldablue said:
I think most of us rule out OoT --> TP because Ganondorf was caught and "executed" in the Child's Timeline. Therefore all throughout OoT, MM and the beginning of TP, Ganondorf was stuck with the Twili trapped thanks to the Mirror of Twilight.

Also for people thinking this Zelda is OoT Zelda...OoT Zelda's father was killed by Ganondorf when she escaped the castle with Impa. But in this trailer we can definitely hear the king, her father speaking.

So I think we can at least rule out direct relationships with OoT's main characters.

Not necessarily. Remember Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule? Zelda/Tetra's father in The Wind Waker? He was more of a spiritual entity I believe. At least that's what I gained from the game. Perhaps Zelda's father is the same in this game?

SolVanderlyn · Jan 18, 2017

Good theories in here all around. I personally think it's in between OoT and LttP, Fallen Hero timeline, but DOES NOT star the Hero of Time.

If it is indeed the fallen hero timeline, perhaps we can learn why this timeline exists. We know time travel shenanigans are possible, so maybe Ganon got hold of the Ocarina of Time post Adult timeline, going back in time and defeating the hero - creating the third timeline. This is just my fan theory, but I do think we'll get the details on why The Hero of Time failed.

As for Link:

Possibility A) This Link is a new Link. We know that those who inherit the hero's spirit don't need to be directly related to the Links of old (see: Wind Waker Link) so it's entirely possible this guy was around when the Hero of Time failed, making the "one hundred years ago" flashbacks centered around the repercussions of old Link's failure.

Possibility B) He is the Hero of Time who failed. Why is he right handed? Perhaps he was resurrected in a new body (hey, Ganon can do it, why not Link?)

Possibility C) He is a new Link and what happened one hundred years ago is NOT referring to the ending where Link failed. That actually happened a long time ago, and Ganon came back after the fact.

I really, really want this to be centered around The Imprisoning War, but it's entirely possible that The Imprisoning War happens before or after this game, too.

Ganondorf stood over the Triforce and grasped it with blood-stained hands. A voice whispered to him, stating that if he had a strong desire in his heart to wish for it. In response, Ganondorf's laughter echoed across time and space and reached even Hyrule itself as he made a wish that he become the ruler of the world.

Thus, one of Hyrule's greatest threats was born: the King of Evil, Ganon, who now had the strength of the Triforce at his command.

Ganon was not satisfied merely with ruling the newly-transformed Dark World however, as he sought to return to Hyrule and conquer it as well. In time, evil power began to issue forth from the portal to the Golden Land, beckoning to men from the outside to seek out the Golden Power and have their wishes become reality through its magic.

As greedy men from Hyrule entered the Dark World hungry for the Golden Power, each of them was transformed into a monster reflecting the greed within them. As a result, Ganon's army of monsters grew to a large enough proportion that he was now capable of launching an invasion against Hyrule. Many plagues began to beset Hyrule as well, causing catastrophes for the people that would precede the coming storm.

Finally, with his army now ready, Ganon launched the invasion against Hyrule, intending to fulfill his wish to be the ruler of both the Dark World and the Light World. Ganon's army swarmed from the Dark World and flooded into Hyrule, causing mass chaos and attacking Hyrule Castle. Meanwhile, the Seven Sages searched for a courageous individual that could take up a weapon that had been crafted to combat magic as powerful as that of the Triforce's, a sword that could banish evil itself, the Master Sword. However, no hero worthy of the blade could be found.

The only thing that works against this being the war is that last sentence - no hero could be found. However, if the war is the flashback from one hundred years ago, it could still make some sort of sense - this Link, for whatever reason, didn't try to or couldn't wield the sword back then.

It's also possible that TIW is referring to what happened after OoT Link failed, and this new calamity is something entirely different. The gap between OoT's ending and LttP's beginning is vague enough for a lot of different possibilities.

Durock · Jan 18, 2017

SolVanderlyn said:
Good theories in here all around. I personally think it's in between OoT and LttP, Fallen Hero timeline, but DOES NOT star the Hero of Time.

If it is indeed the fallen hero timeline, perhaps we can learn why this timeline exists. We know time travel shenanigans are possible, so maybe Ganon got hold of the Ocarina of Time post Adult timeline, going back in time and defeating the hero - creating the third timeline. This is just my fan theory, but I do think we'll get the details on why The Hero of Time failed.

As for Link:

Possibility A) This Link is a new Link. We know that those who inherit the hero's spirit don't need to be directly related to the Links of old (see: Wind Waker Link) so it's entirely possible this guy was around when the Hero of Time failed, making the "one hundred years ago" flashbacks centered around the repercussions of old Link's failure.

Possibility B) He is the Hero of Time who failed. Why is he right handed? Perhaps he was resurrected in a new body (hey, Ganon can do it, why not Link?)

Possibility C) He is a new Link and what happened one hundred years ago is NOT referring to the ending where Link failed. That actually happened a long time ago, and Ganon came back after the fact.

I really, really want this to be The Imprisoning War, but it's entirely possible that The Imprisoning War happens before or after this game, too.

The only thing that works against this being the war is that last sentence - no hero could be found. However, if the war is the flashback from one hundred years ago, it could still make some sort of sense - this Link, for whatever reason, didn't try to or couldn't wield the sword back then.

That doesn't necessarily rule against it either. Hero not being found could mean they just couldn't find anyone else that was capable of fulfilling the Hero of Time's destiny. So the most they could do is attempt to keep Ganon confined until the HoT reawakens from his slumber.

And I have to say, that story fits so perfectly for BOTW.

EDIT: So what I gather from it, is that with the Hero of Time defeated, the Seven Sages-i assume the very same ones from OoT--sought to find another hero that could take up the Master Sword. When none could be found, the most they can do is encapture Ganon within the confines of Hyrule Castle and attempt to keep him from completely taking over Hyrule until the Hero of Time reawakens. That's when the Sheikah come to the aid of the sages and King of Hyrule with their ancient technology and Guardians to aid in the coming fight. What they did not expect, however, was Ganon's power to overtake the Guardians and turn them against the Sheikah and Hylians.

Easy_D · Jan 18, 2017

Ms.Galaxy said:
Plot Twist: Link in Breath of the Wild is actually the same Link from Zelda CD-i.

Look, Ganon is a strange evil gas being just like in BotW.

Well, in this game you probably *will* be able to eat an Octorok

SolVanderlyn · Jan 18, 2017

Durock said:
That doesn't necessarily rule against it either. Hero not being found could mean they just couldn't find anyone else that was capable of fulfilling the Hero of Time's destiny. So the most they could do is attempt to keep Ganon confined until the HoT reawakens from his slumber.

And I have to say, that story fits so perfectly for BOTW.

EDIT: So what I gather from it, is that with the Hero of Time defeated, the Seven Sages-i assume the very same ones from OoT--sought to find another hero that could take up the Master Sword. When none could be found, the most they can do is encapture Ganon within the confines of Hyrule Castle and attempt to keep him from completely taking over Hyrule until the Hero of Time reawakens. That's when the Sheikah come to the aid of the sages and King of Hyrule with their ancient technology and Guardians to aid in the coming fight. What they did not expect, however, was Ganon's power to overtake the Guardians and turn them against the Sheikah and Hylians.

That actually makes sense. I still think it's a different Link though (although him being the Hero of Time would be really cool and I'd love to be wrong)

And yeah, re-reading what happened during The Imprisoning War really fits with the latest trailer, especially. Hyrule is ravaged after Ganon returns, and he's contained, but only temporarily before returning again. Sounds exactly like BotW.

Skittzo0413 · Jan 18, 2017

From the Vice interview:

Aonuma said:
I wouldn't say that it obviously fits into any one part of the timeline, but if you play the game, you'll be able to work out where it fits. As you probably saw in the trailer, the most recent trailer, there's a woman's voice, and she says: "The history of the royal family of Hyrule is also the history of the Calamity Ganon." And as you know, the Zelda series, up until now, is a history of repeated attacks by Ganon. So, there's food for thought there. I don't want to say anything more as I'd like players to work it out for themselves, to play the game and see what they think.

So it would seem they had a definite idea of where this is in the timeline, and it has a bit to do with the whole "history of Hyrule is also the history of the Calamity Ganon" bit. Which would suggest this isn't right after OoT... right?

Kyolux · Jan 18, 2017

Skittzo0413 said:
From the Vice interview:

So it would seem they had a definite idea of where this is in the timeline, and it has a bit to do with the whole "history of Hyrule is also the history of the Calamity Ganon" bit. Which would suggest this isn't right after OoT... right?

Yeah, I'd say after AoL seems the most likely given this. But what do we do with all the

hero of time

stuff?

I guess it can be another hero of time, or like some said, completing the hero of time's destiny, which was to defeat Ganon, but it happened already in LoZ.. hmmm

My head hurts..

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