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WSJ - Camille Paglia: A Feminist Defense of Masculine Virtues

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casabolg

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
How did I skim over this?

She isn't a feminist. That's a downright misogynistic thing to say.
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Nope, it isn't. It is definitely put into a crazy context in this article though.
The statement was done speaking entirely on the idea of women of the time in their socialization, not women entirely. It's a statement on the demonizing of 'patriarchy' and the existence of the persisting gender dichotomy of male and female throughout female nature and the benefits that have come from its work.
 
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HolyBaikal

Banned
Trent Strong said:
That's absolutely ridiculous. But from what I've been reading from you over the past few days, I'm pretty sure you're trolling most of the time.
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:/

No, I don't troll. I don't like trolling.

And I'm not saying there aren't biological difference between genders. I'm saying that too many people believe in biological differences in areas where there aren't. There's an oft tendency to believe that gender stereotypes are neurological in origin, without evidence.

I'm sad that we disagree so much that you think I'm not being truthful. Some of the things other people in this world say and do and think often leaves me in disbelief, as well.
 
T

Trent Strong

Banned
HolyBaikal said:
:/

No, I don't troll. I don't like trolling.

And I'm not saying there aren't biological difference between genders. I'm saying that too many people believe in biological differences in areas where there aren't. There's an oft tendency to believe that gender stereotypes are neurological in origin, without evidence.

I'm sad that we disagree so much that you think I'm not being truthful. Some of the things other people in this world say and do and think often leaves me in disbelief, as well.
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Oops. I thought you were saying that there were no biological differences whatsoever. My bad.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
irrelevant dusty (presumably 2nd wave) rape-apologist Paglia says some stuff, bilbo & ripclawe wholesale cosign - fascinating stuff here
 
pants

pants

Member
"If civilization had been left in female hands," she wrote, "we would still be living in grass huts."
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E9Tvd3M.gif
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
She starts by pointing to the diminished status of military service. "The entire elite class now, in finance, in politics and so on, none of them have military service—hardly anyone, there are a few. But there is no prestige attached to it anymore. That is a recipe for disaster," she says.
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This is as far as I had to read. We have enough military fetishism in the US. The last thing we need is more.
 
C

casabolg

Banned
ElectricBlue187 said:
This is as far as I had to read. We have enough military fetishism in the US. The last thing we need is more.
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She's implying military service teaches and instills positive standards and experiences to men and women they may or would not get elsewhere. I don't think you can compare it to fetishism.
 
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Gentleman Jack

Member
casabolg said:
Rape apologist? Say what?
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One of the foundations of her particular brand of crazy is the idea that aggressive, unchecked male lust is a creative and positive force in the world and should not be interdicted. Choice quotes from an interview 20 years ago:

Listen, my generation of women said we wanted sexual freedom, but we accepted the risks. Sex is combat. Gay men understand this. Every gay man I know has had rough encounters - why aren't they running for protection from the police? I'm saying to women, 'Grow up. If you go to a man's apartment, you are signalling that you want sex. If you don't, then carry a knife. I carry a knife. This is street-smart feminism. Not weeping back to the authorities when things go wrong.
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Blaming the victim makes perfect sense if the victim has behaved stupidly . . . when you drive your car to New York City, do you leave your keys on the hood?
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empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
casabolg said:
She's implying military service teaches and instills positive standards and experiences to men and women they may or would not get elsewhere. I don't think you can compare it to fetishism.
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That's not what the article reflects she said. She said that military experience causes people to believe that people are mean and instills a "sense of evil or criminality," which is apparently valuable for leadership in her estimation. It's nonsense. Some of the things she says have superficial appeal (anybody can say some correct things if they speak for long enough), but her reasons for them sound like they come from a mentally ill person, as I suspect they in fact do.
 
C

casabolg

Banned
Gentleman Jack said:
One of the foundations of her particular brand of crazy is the idea that aggressive, unchecked male lust is a creative and positive force in the world and should not be interdicted. Choice quotes from an interview 20 years ago:
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She is putting blame on both parties. The point of the anti-victim blaming movement was that there has been no effort to stop potential rapists from being rapists and just for potential victims to not be victims so it's important to switch focus towards the former. She's not ignoring one or the other, though I'm definitely with you that her aggressiveness is definitely unsettling for the topic. Her aggressiveness is better accepted with men than women.

But I've yet to see the apologist-work for rape. Your quote makes her a victim-blaming apologist.
 
C

casabolg

Banned
empty vessel said:
That's not what the article reflects she said. She said that military experience causes people to believe that people are mean and instills a "sense of evil or criminality," which is apparently valuable for leadership in her estimation.
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That's an element of what you're quoting from me. You're agreeing with me on what she's trying to say.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
casabolg said:
But I've yet to see the apologist-work for rape. Your quote makes her a victim-blaming apologist.
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The 'biiiiiig deal!' quote doesn't strike you as rape apology? And I don't see her putting much blame on the rapist when in her worldview it's a 'boys will be boys' explanation as to why rape happens, just dudes acting out their inner Alexander the Great, that's why we don't live in grass huts anymore, yup.
 
C

casabolg

Banned
Gentleman Jack said:
The 'biiiiiig deal!' quote doesn't strike you as rape apology?
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Is a sexual encounter that you didn't find enjoyable rape?
I think we're taking the part of the line "things get out of line" two different ways. If so, I concede your point on your title for her.

Edit: I probably started a conversation longer than the time I have. I have work to go to. I'll be back, peeps.
 
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