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Valve engineer confirms Linux-based Steambox for 2013, could appear at GDC or E3

P

pot

Banned
Not interested in the Steambox at all, it just doesn't interest me. I have a gaming PC to play my steam library on.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
I don't think Valve expects to sell the 50-75 million units that each of the next gen consoles will sell. A couple million units would probably make them very happy.
 
F

farnham

Banned
So another us/eu only console. This may hurt ms and sony a lot. Its a direct competitor in the dudebro market.
PaulLFC said:
And why would that be? Too many people are seeing this from the point of what's available for Linux on Steam right now and going from there. Android is based off Linux, there are plenty of games for that. The situations aren't comparable, what I'm trying to say is that it's a new platform - it will be closed and controlled by Valve. They may well be able to attract developer support for it and have devs develop exclusive Steambox games, or at least Steambox versions of multiplatform titles. The OS doesn't matter. If devs develop games for it, who cares what OS it runs?
Click to expand...

Wasnt linux on ps3 considered to be the second comming of jesus?
outunderthestars said:
I don't think Valve expects to sell the 50-75 million units that each of the next gen consoles will sell. A couple million units would probably make them very happy.
Click to expand...
Gaming industry has taken a big hit and i havent seen any signs of recovery yet. I dont think 50-75 million across the board is possible.
 
M

maniac-kun

Member
graywolf323 said:
talking to publishers doesn't help with all the games that use Direct X, honestly I fear this is Steam flushing money down the drain that could be better used elsewhere

like actually improving the client which it's just ridiculous how buggy it still is, or how about making more Half-Life games?

or even better spend money on customer service and hire a team to test games and let the community suggest them instead of whatever the hell they're attempting with Greenlight
Click to expand...

The PS3 uses Opengl ES.
 
Z

Zeroth

Member
GravityMan said:
There is very little chance that the Steambox will succeed. I doubt it does any better than the Ouya. Reasons:

1) There is next-to-no market for it. PC gamers will already have a PC and will simply buy or build new PCs when appropriate. 85% of console gamers are CASUAL gamers. They are the type to hook up the console with the supplied cables (even if they're composite!), turn it on, stick in the disc and play. Heck, many console games don't even know what XBLA, PSN or Wiiware/VC is. They don't know nor care about sub-30 FPS, screen tearing, AA or sub-HD resolutions. The remaining 15% are core gamers...but at least half of them still prefer the plug-in-and-play nature of consoles, plus a sizable # of them strongly prefer Japanese games, and not many of those are on Steam/PC. We're left with only a sliver of gamers (probably no more than 1 or 2 million) that would be interested in a Steambox.

2) If the specs are too weak then nobody will care about the Steambox. If the specs are too strong (e.g. far better than next-gen Sony/MS consoles) then the Steambox will be very expensive, and thus will be DOA.

3) Development costs are already through the roof. Steambox will just cause dev costs to rise even more, to make Linux/OpenGL compatible versions of their games. It'll be a hard sell for publishers.

4) Valve is a small company of only a few hundred employees, and they also don't have the financial resources of companies like MS, Sony, etc. Can they devote the significant amount of R&D necessary to Steambox to make it work. I'm skeptical. Much of their staff is focused on making games and managing Steam. Now if Valve is partnering with another company to make Steambox a reality, that's a different story.

5) Due to Linux, it won't have much of a library initially. Sure, the available library could possibly grow quite a bit after a couple of years...but since Steambox is a new player to the game, I think it has to make a positive commercial splash early on for it to catch on with gamers and devs. Most of them will take a skeptical wait-and-see approach. I do not think Steambox makes that splash. Valve can attempt to entice with sweetheart deals and whatnot, but those will only go so far.

I'm all for companies trying new things, and I know that big things start small...but Valve shouldn't bother with a Steambox. The risk of failure is just too great, and a company like them can't afford to absorb many significant flops. Stick to what they're already good at, which is games and Steam.

I'd love to be wrong, because the idea sounds great at first thought...but I just don't see it.
Click to expand...

To be honest, Valve is also smart enough to think about all these points, and if they are still going for it, it means they have their own measures against such. They are no fools, that much I can give them credit, this steambox is very ambitious but in no way a decision they took all of the sudden.
 
D

Durante

Member
If you already have a PC with Steam Valve doesn't need you to buy a Steambox.

I think many people posting in this thread are missing this simple point. I'm almost certain that Valve want to extend the reach of their platform, not (or at least not primarily) sell a box to people already on board.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
PaulLFC said:
And why would that be? Too many people are seeing this from the point of what's available for Linux on Steam right now and going from there. Android is based off Linux, there are plenty of games for that. The situations aren't comparable, what I'm trying to say is that it's a new platform - it will be closed and controlled by Valve. They may well be able to attract developer support for it and have devs develop exclusive Steambox games, or at least Steambox versions of multiplatform titles. The OS doesn't matter. If devs develop games for it, who cares what OS it runs?
Click to expand...

Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
 
M

maniac-kun

Member
outunderthestars said:
Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
Click to expand...

A lot of people pre-order stuff on steam so your argument is invalid.
 
O

Orayn

Member
outunderthestars said:
Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
Click to expand...

That's why XCOM was a dismal failure, right? Since the console versions bombed and not a single copy of the PC version was sold until the Christmas sales. Oh, and forget about Bastion and Super Meat Boy doing well on PC. Total fiction and falsehood. Total War? Never heard of it.
 
M

Maztorre

Member
farnham said:
So another us/eu only console. This may hurt ms and sony a lot. Its a direct competitor in the dudebro market.
Click to expand...

Valve are in contact with Japanese publishers to get more JP games to Steam. Any Steambox would be as "dudebro" as the PC.

Wasnt linux on ps3 considered to be the second comming of jesus?
Click to expand...

Linux for PS3 didn't allow access to the GPU, hugely limiting what apps could be written for it.
 
graywolf323

graywolf323

Member
outunderthestars said:
Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
Click to expand...

I honestly expect the Wii U will have more publisher/developer support than a linux based Steambox
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
I really doubt Valve is making a system/OS that requires specifically made versions of games. That would be dumb and Valve isn't dumb.
 
F

farnham

Banned
Im a big baffled how they want to do it with first party software. No more pc valve games? Or steambox plus pc? Seems risky to me. Also they have a very weak first party lineup tbh.
graywolf323 said:
I honestly expect the Wii U will have more publisher/developer support than a linux based Steambox
Click to expand...

No steambox will have more. Its not possible to have less support then zero (as christian nutt said no third party will support wiiu starting 2013)
 
graywolf323

graywolf323

Member
Orayn said:
That's why XCOM was a dismal failure, right? Since the console versions bombed and not a single copy of the PC version was sold until the Christmas sales. Oh, and forget about Bastion and Super Meat Boy doing well on PC. Total fiction and falsehood. Total War? Never heard of it.
Click to expand...

who the heck paid full price for XCOM here? even preorders were discounted especially if you went through GreenManGaming
 
P

PaulLFC

Member
farnham said:
Wasnt linux on ps3 considered to be the second comming of jesus?
Click to expand...
I don't know, not by the general public. Unless Valve are targeting enthusiasts only with this I doubt they'll advertise it as Linux anyway, they'd advertise it as a games console. Not one to compete on the levels of the established ones (yet), but it's far more likely to attract wider attention than "Linux box".

outunderthestars said:
Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
Click to expand...
People that buy it might not be Steam users, they might not have even heard of it. If it has good games on it, people will see it as a games console and buy it for that. It doesn't have to be solely for Steam users. Besides, I own loads of Steam games yet still have other consoles, and I bet most other Steam users are the same.

graywolf323 said:
I honestly expect the Wii U will have more publisher/developer support than a linux based Steambox
Click to expand...
Based off... what exactly? Steambox hasn't even been revealed yet, we have no idea how the tools for making/porting games are, and a ton of other things are still unknown as well.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
outunderthestars said:
Because now a next gen publisher has to create an additional version of their game, one that will likely be for a much smaller section of the market, and one that tends to wait until games are dirt cheap before buying it. If I was a publisher I don't think I'd be excited about having to create a steambox/linux version of a game that nobody will buy until I mark it down 75%
Click to expand...

Where do you get that from?
 
F

Funchameleon

Banned
I'll probably buy into this just to finally properly learn a unix-like OS with a large like-minded community but they are going to have to pull some fucking business wizardry to get major developers on board.

Hell, if Battlefield 4 launches around the same time, and with EA's commitment to Origin is Windows exclusive on PC, it's going to be very hard for a lot of people to invest in a linux box.

edit: Blizzard's next announcement (titan?) could make or break this thing for a ridiculously large audience.
 
D

Darryl

Banned
diffusionx said:
My point still stands, what chance does this thing have if they can't get their big fans on board?

I mean, MS and Sony fans are ready to line up for the PS4 and 720 today. MS and Sny have to work to get them not to buy it. With this, a lot of us here are big Steam users and pretty much everyone is like, "not for me."
Click to expand...

a bunch of crazies on a forum are "ready to line up" for something they have no idea about, no idea what games come out on it, no idea how much it costs, and possibly does not exist at all. i don't see what this is proof of.
 
D

d1rtn4p

Member
This will turn the console world on it's head. If Valve can bring Steam to the common person's living room, that'll be about game over for everyone else.
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
My guess is that the Steambox will have a new version each year like iPads, they all have Steam on them. The advantages being that it's easy to use Steam on your TV, standardized control etc.

Did Valve really have meetings with Apple a few months ago or was that proven wrong?
 
M

M3d10n

Member
I'm looking forward to destroying dual-stick TF2 players. Unless Valve also came up with some crazy ass input device.
 
F

farnham

Banned
PaulLFC said:
Based off... what exactly? Steambox hasn't even been revealed yet, we have no idea how the tools for making/porting games are, and a ton of other things are still unknown as well.
Click to expand...

im positive that ouya will get more third party support than wiiu. Heck if sega was to launch dreamcast 2 that would be more supported probably
d1rtn4p said:
This will turn the console world on it's head. If Valve can bring Steam to the common person's living room, that'll be about game over for everyone else.
Click to expand...

Can i buy nintendo games on steam?
 
D

Durante

Member
So, what can Valve do to incentivize Steambox ports?
My first ideas would be:
- reduce fees for games that also have a Steambox release
- special storefront space for Steambox-enabled games
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
zoku88 said:
1) Based off, but still not actually BSD. It's like saying BSD is Unix.

And that's nowhere near as popular as Linux as whole...

Anyway, by popular, I really meant people who use the kernel. So, in your example, you have just listed one "user". I don't mean end-users (because, clearly, kernels are pretty much invisible to end-users anyway.)
Click to expand...
I know, I'm just being an ass.

zoku88 said:
Keep in mind, I'm discussing particularly the "commercially viable" part of what you said... I was stating why license doesn't really matter in this case. So, I was saying that needing to modify the kernel was unlikely.
Click to expand...
I see.

I probably approached the issue from the wrong viewpoint now that I think about it, because although I disagree with you on the license not mattering for a kernel, it's just that it doesn't really matter for Linux because Linus and the rest of the maintainers don't really care as much as some of the other projects do. There's support for proprietary drivers and all in the Linux kernel -- contrast with say GCC which is intentionally fucked up to keep imaginary "companies" from writing imaginary proprietary "add-ons" and all, lol. Which is why Apple started pushing for LLVM/Clang -- the fanatic GNU politics in GCC restricted development. They clearly weren't wanting to close anything off because LLVM/Clang are open source under a FSF approved license too!
 
D

dragonelite

Member
AuthenticM said:
What if the Source Engine's successor can run on Linux or has built-in tools greatly aiding in porting games from Windows to Linux ? How great would that be ? Maybe a lot of developpers would adopt the engine and make their games also run on Linux if the Steambox proves to be popular. Valve would essentially be using either the engine or the Steambox as a trojan horse to force an explosion in popularity for Linux.
Click to expand...

I think that wont work trends so far i can see, is that each publisher is making one engine which their studios can use. And if not the developer will likely use middleware engines like Unreal engine and CryEngine. Dont think a lot of devs will make their own engine from scratch. It is also cheaper for a publisher to have one core engine engineering team of let say 25 then have 5 teams at of lets say 15 man at 5 studios. That means you can hire more engineers for tools and Art pipelines make it easy for the artist to get as many iterations as possible. Because at the end optimizing art is cheaper then optimizing an renderer.

What valve could do is maybe make Wine coding guidelines so they game has a better chance to run on WINE. But not sure how other teams would feel having to sacrifice performance for x% of the market while they could potentially reach full performance for 80% of the market.

Durante said:
So, what can Valve do to incentivize Steambox ports?
My first ideas would be:
- reduce fees for games that also have a Steambox release
- special storefront space for Steambox-enabled games
Click to expand...

With the first point you mean they take like a 20% cut for games that are also a steambox release?
Second point dont know about that some would say that is some shady marketing like 360 Dashboard right now.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
The only way to get me buy it:

Same price/cheaper than a self build PC + Power of a good midrange PC (660ti,760ti,860ti...) + the option to just install windows on it.

We are still talking about a PC, so there should be still the Option to just install Windows on it. If it has a good price/power Value and i can install Windows on it i will buy it.
Is it more expansiv than a self build PC i see no way to get me buy it, with or without windows.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Baconsammy said:
Those people wont buy a box that purports to run PC games then. They'll buy from Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft like they're doing now.
Click to expand...
But they might consider buying one for all the multiplats at cheaper prices and customizable graphics options. It is not that hard for something to be re-branded.

This sort of thing happens all the time. People get introduced to an age old concept or product splashed with a fresh coat of paint and a few revisions. Just look at what a change in control interface did for Nintendo and the Wii. Apply the right thinking to game tweaking, Steam sales, big picture mode, free patching, and linux and people will act like it is a complete revolution that will change everything.
 
F

FatalMuzza

Banned
Valve knows the new consoles are coming. This move, and the Steambox early release in the first quarter would indicate they are seriously concerned for big shift away from PC's coming this year. This of course would be detrimental to their distribution model.

Valve is attempting to hang on by moving their content to the living room and not be left behind. I cannot imagine this being successful for them, going head to head with the established giants of the industry. Smells of desperation.

Now putting that aside, I'll probably get one - gamer!
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Does this mean Valve will have to hire a customer service staff now?


But really, it's hard to imagine a company as small as Valve succeeding with this. It's a ton of work to support a console and 300 people isn't going to cut it.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
syko de4d said:
The only way to get me buy it:

Same price/cheaper than a self build PC + Power of a good midrange PC (660ti,760ti,860ti...) + the option to just install windows on it.

We are still talking about a PC, so there should be still the Option to just install Windows on it. If it has a good price/power Value and i can install Windows on it i will buy it.
Is it more expansiv than a self build PC i see no way to get me buy it, with or without windows.
Click to expand...

Depends will there be a disk slot or usb slot controller could be wireless or ?
Can you change boot medium(disk,hdd or usb) in the bios or the Steambox OS?
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
Basileus777 said:
Does this mean Valve will have to hire a customer service staff now?


But really, it's hard to imagine a company as small as Valve succeeding with this. It's a ton of work to support a console and 300 people isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...
I doubt they will handle it themselves.

Hell, I doubt current console manufacturers handle it themselves.
 
J

JNT

Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but Gallium3D now provides a native implementation of Direct3D 10/11. This should help porting stuff using DirectX over to Linux immensely.
 
K

Krowley

Member
pizzaroll said:
I doubt they will handle it themselves.

Hell, I doubt current console manufacturers handle it themselves.
Click to expand...


Yeah... If they intend to really compete with consoles, they'll have major partners involved. Most of the speculation seems to be that they'll be providing an OS and a spec and letting other manufacturers make the machines to run it.. The android model, basically.... I think that makes sense, and I also expect they partners on the software front to help create a vibrant game market, otherwise I can't imagine they would go forward with this.
 
M

-MB-

Member
Durante said:
So, what can Valve do to incentivize Steambox ports?
My first ideas would be:
- reduce fees for games that also have a Steambox release
- special storefront space for Steambox-enabled games
Click to expand...

Or allow u to bypass Steam Greenlight, so u don't have to wait to be voted up before getting onto steam.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
they'd contract out customer service.
Not sure this is really any riskier than Ouya, it's just offering a new way of playing existing games, using what should be at cost or profitable hardware. The Linux side could be very expensive and tricky to develop if they're wanting a huge library, but they're definitely going ahead with the Linux push anyway.
 
J

Jhriad

Member
Will my current library of Steam games work on this box?

No? Then I don't give a fuck. Come back when your game development actually has the output of Nintendo or SCE.

Yes? Day 1. Of course that won't happen so I don't need to prep the wallet.
 
P

params7

Banned
I really am excited to see how this will work. Will this be separate platform in the sense that games will need to be ported now for this platform specifically or if PC Steam/Steambox will be the same things just in different environments (not likely I guess).
 
O

Orayn

Member
Jhriad said:
Will my current library of Steam games work on this box?

No? Then I don't give a fuck. Come back when your game development actually has the output of Nintendo or SCE.

Yes? Day 1. Of course that won't happen so I don't need to prep the wallet.
Click to expand...

Would some of your Steam library warrant a "maybe" that depends on which games?
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Jhriad said:
Will my current library of Steam games work on this box?

No? Then I don't give a fuck. Come back when your game development actually has the output of Nintendo or SCE.

Yes? Day 1. Of course that won't happen so I don't need to prep the wallet.
Click to expand...

I don't get why so many gaffers in this topic are so binary about this.

It will have a number of steam titles available day one greater than zero but less than all.
 
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