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Former BioWare Emloyee Review of company sheds distuburing light on MEA's development
- Thread starter MasterMenace
- Start date
Go on.
because one is a target render and the other actually runs on consoles. its the only thing the op manually inserted into the bullet point list.
Taking my opinion of Andromeda out of the equation, this is really shitty news to hear about BioWare. I often held them high in regards to reputation. This, however, completely casts it in a new light. I will take the 'report' with a grain of salt though, and await further reports, or a comment from BioWare themselves.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Americans love bragging about not having workers' right even liberals buy into the mentality of "living to work"
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Unless you're manning nuclear missile silos no idea why anyone would put up with this. Pay must have been sacrilegiously good compared to what other companies were willing to pay you at the time to tolerate that shit for three fucking years. At least you're in a better place now though.
Not sure if you work in games but that industry needs to union the hell up, reading this shit just annoys me to no end. Fuck workers rights amirite.
One of my favourite series too.I don't know why everyone's saying it's a target render when that was used in a devs portfolio. There was also a little gameplay clip attached to the end of the original clip I leaked last year and it very much fits the style of the comparison. While you can only see a brief moment of a character using a jet pack, the lighting already looked better than what we have on PC/console. It would be great if someone could do a comparison of that scene as well.
GlamFM
Banned
I know shitting on EA is en vogue and you get 20 forum points every time you throw them under the bus, but in this specific case there is no indication that EA has anything to do with it.
This is about Bioware Montreal and Bioware Edmonton and how the studios are led by senior staff.
Easily detectable by reading the OP.
Everyone's saying its a target render because thats what target renders look like. High quality lighting with real amounts of sources and shadows, and raw uncompressed high framerate mocap data for animations
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Not taking anything away from any suffering that went down at BioWare Montreal, but that write up sounds like most med-large sized corporate bodies I've worked in.
The Bro culture bit and HR not listening especially, I must be working at the wrong places, lol.
The Bro culture bit and HR not listening especially, I must be working at the wrong places, lol.
So ? We're in 2017. That target render wasn't out of the realm of what is being done now. We could tolerate worse lightning and effects, dynamic resolution even. The entire presentation of the characters we ended up with is unacceptable. Their target was great and not unattainable.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
For all the op's concern, if he's still planning to blind buy the game with no reviews, EA/Bioware should care because...why?
Nikodemos
Member
Reading between the lines, seems to me like Montreal was skipping deadlines in a manner that considerably displeased EA, and they commanded Edmonton to go in hard and heavy. Edmonton started ordering people around and "pulling rank" around Montreal people, which led to animosity building up (and people leaving or fired after getting into arguments with Edmonton people).
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Was very much my takeaway from the OP. Weird.
Animation and movement was largely the same, and the acting was on par with the older games, this excuse doesnt seem logical. Also, if its a target that means little time has gone into making it, meaning look at what they achieved over a short period. No company invest more time into targets then the final scene as thats wasted resource (investing in something that will not be shipped). So the acting was possible last gen on older games and they should have had more time to achieve this then the actual target render. So, what happened? They seem to have the tech and the time. It just doesnt fit.
What? That seems like a really far-fetched conclusion based on the available information.
GlamFM
Banned
It´s no proper witch hunt without some far fetched conspiracy theories.
JigglesBunny
Banned
This would certainly explain a fair bit regarding Andromeda's less than stellar turn out but I get the feeling that this is simply capitalizing on the current narrative surrounding the game's lack of quality. Not that I am outright dismissing the report of course, the timing just seems very... convenient.
Seems like every Bioware game since Mass Effect 2 has fallen victim to bro culture, then.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I'm so bummed out about this game. EA how could you fuck up Mass Effect... why would you do this... how could they possibly be this inept
Diprosalic
Banned
i feel like EA undergoes these swings from "worst company in gaming" to "actually pretty good right now". seems like we're on a downswing again.
One game is the game of the generation, and the other is Mass Effect Andromeda.
TetraGenesis
Member
Man, that looks like a video game from 2017, not a target render from 2016. Nothing about that leaked scene is impossible on modern consoles.
AlexFlame116
Member
Um....yeah I saw that video. I still don't understand how consoles are the true source of such a downgrade.
dr_rus
Member
Senior staff of Bioware studios is EA.
Mister Megative
Banned
So many people taking an anonymous post at face value, without stopping to think whether:
A: It's total bullshit and he actually works at McDonald's (Probable)
B: Dude has an axe to grind (Just as probable)
Just automatically assuming that unsubstantiated posts from nameless, faceless people on the net are the gospel truth is just as problematic as the issues laid out.
A: It's total bullshit and he actually works at McDonald's (Probable)
B: Dude has an axe to grind (Just as probable)
Just automatically assuming that unsubstantiated posts from nameless, faceless people on the net are the gospel truth is just as problematic as the issues laid out.
HR won't listen to you until you've fucked up and you're in the hot seat. And even then...
GlamFM
Banned
EDIT: Why do I even care?
thepenguin55
Member
Others have probably mentioned this but it might be worth mentioning the other bad review of BioWare from the person listed as a current Edmonton employee. This person probably never touched Andromeda but their complaints seem to be in line with the VFX artists complaints about Edmonton higher ups.
DISCLAIMER: Things change during game development, marketing trailers are usually not representative of the final game, this comparison doesn't really mean anything:
I've heard the term bro culture used quite a few times regarding game and tech companies. Typically it does mean immature fratboys in that you have an exclusive group of guys who are hostile toward new people and toward women, and who also are constantly trying to one-up one another to prove who is the alpha male. This is unfortunately a very common thing in business.
It also tends to generate an environment of competitiveness among teams in the same organization. That can be healthy to an extent but it's easy for it to get into the realm of sniping and infighting. That can tear companies apart but more often it just leads to an unhappy workplace full of people who aren't working efficiently and who are chasing short-term wins at the cost of the long-term health of the company. This inevitably leads to delays, low quality products, and disappointing (but typically not fatally poor) performance.
This is not something that's easy to fix because culture is mostly intangible. You can look at attrition rate of employees but that's easier to explain away than to pin directly on something as nebulous as "culture". Human Resources are there to serve the company, not the employee.
If MEA sells enough to turn a profit, which it most likely will, it's difficult for decision makers to justify the potentially costly changes required to "fix" a toxic culture. Typically those decision makers are also removed from the production process and might not even be aware of the problems faced by employees until a blog post gets picked up by the news or a lawsuit gets filed. Even if they were to recognize the problem, devising and implementing a "fix" can be incredibly difficult.
Veritigo_X
Member
None of the things in that review are really that out of the ordinary for the gaming industry (or really software development in general), not sure why people want to discount a worker's experience just to turn around to defend a multibillion dollar company.
DISCLAIMER: Things change during game development, marketing trailers are usually not representative of the final game, this comparison doesn't really mean anything:
holy shit
I wonder how much of this is "fact" and how much of it is just a disgruntled ex-employee.
I'm in charge of about a dozen people at my work, and I've seen people say things that were downright lies after leaving the company just to make themselves feel or appear better about there actions and or decisions.
Or things get stretched and embellished. Me asking someone to take there break a half hour later turns into, "they forced me to skip my lunch period even though I worked an 8 hour shift!" pretty quick when people get disgruntled.
I'm in charge of about a dozen people at my work, and I've seen people say things that were downright lies after leaving the company just to make themselves feel or appear better about there actions and or decisions.
Or things get stretched and embellished. Me asking someone to take there break a half hour later turns into, "they forced me to skip my lunch period even though I worked an 8 hour shift!" pretty quick when people get disgruntled.
TBiddy
Member
Thankyou.gif.
I'm really surprised that people are _this_ fast to jump on the bandwagon. Anyone and their mother can write a negative review like that.
thepenguin55
Member
I always read your comments in Ace Ventura's voice, but yes, this is all insane.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
No Tyrion is capable... This is more like Loras Tyrell being placed on the Iron Throne.
Love how the majority keep pointing fingers at EA cause they're the easy scapegoats. As if this shit is not prevalent in the majority of corporate culture. This is on Bioware first and foremost, then EA. Let's keep the facts straight.
Copper
Member
DISCLAIMER: Things change during game development, marketing trailers are usually not representative of the final game, this comparison doesn't really mean anything:
It's not just the animations. They scrapped the entire lighting, it not even raining in the left shot. Really disappointing to see what it could have been.
I've also observed this and it's very regrettable.
SeanBoocock
Neo Member
Any account of a large team effort, particularly from a lone source and especially if that source is anonymous, will at best be myopic and at worst be a malicious fabrication meant to serve the needs of the source. Even well researched and sourced pieces like those from Jason Schreier and Matt Leone, or efforts like Geoff Keighley's Final Days retrospectives that have full studio involvement, don't capture the day to day reality of the culture at the studio, its development process, or its evolution. To try to paint a picture of Bioware based on a bullet point list of grievances from an alleged, disgruntled ex-employee is misguided and unfair to the team at Bioware. If you didn't like Mass Effect: Andromeda, channel that into constructive criticism of the game and not into inventing narratives about how, who, or why the development of your idealized version of the game was disrupted.
Source: I worked at EA for four years, the last two of which at Bioware. I still have friends there that worked on Mass Effect: Andromeda, and I have a lot of respect for the studio both professionally and as a fan.
Source: I worked at EA for four years, the last two of which at Bioware. I still have friends there that worked on Mass Effect: Andromeda, and I have a lot of respect for the studio both professionally and as a fan.
Anton Sugar
Member
In addition, take a look at the below video comparing the leaked 2016 MEA footage to the current footage.
https://my.mixtape.moe/yugchn.mp4
Notice how the April 2016 leaked version has dramatically better animations, ESPECIALLY the facial animation when that guy starts coughing. What happened?!
I am pretty ignorant when it comes to animation--how the hell does this happen? Like, how is it even possible that they have a much better animation early in the development cycle and it gets this much worse by final? Why would they want to "redo" these facial animations if they were great in the first place? Isn't that extra time/effort?
The bland over-lit environments of the game are a real bummer. Nothing is flattering, dramatic, etc. Just boring.
Yeah I was trying to address the change in lighting. Everything just ends up looking flat: