Cosmonaut X
Member
It was second to the PS2 in some things as well, IIRC - the PS2 was a fillrate brute, was it not?
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Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
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It was second to the PS2 in some things as well, IIRC - the PS2 was a fillrate brute, was it not?
JordanN
Banned
Totally.
metalslimer
Member
I don't think current Sony is really the one they should be talking to. Much the PS3 support today is by default and the fact they can port games from the 360 to it.
Fully addressed? From what I read I got the impression they took it from "Oh shit, this thing's in trouble trying to manage our games" to "Phew, it can just make it now".
Good points and yes it's more to do with attitude of the publishers but I was still under the impression that the CPU was pretty sub-par. If the system can't meet some benchmark there could be trouble. I just don't know.
Regarding third party support, Nintendo focussing so little on "core" games isn't doing themselves any justice WRT it's perception. Hopefully Nintendo are working their arses off behind the scenes to show otherwise.
Gamecube was what it was because it fit Nintendo's pricing I imagine. If consoles of that power had have cost $400, you can bet your cotton socks that GC would have been way less powerful than the PS2 and XBOX.
The Wii U, while maybe more expensive that $250, is still in the ballpark where Nintendo likes to work. That is the limiting factor in the end (Once you add in the day 1 profit desire Nintendo always strives for)
Glorified G
Member
fixed
JordanN
Banned
Unless there was a change of plans in regards to PS2's release date, GC still would of out muscled it just for releasing later.
And if time came to pass where the tech was really expensive, Nintendo could just wait it out until it was cheaper to release. Still, the way GC was designed wouldn't really call for those measures (ex: no expensive DVD or Hard drive).
Dreamwriter
Member
And yet almost no games ever released for those systems will look one iota better than on Wii-U, because of the immense cost of really pushing hardware these days. If only 3 or 4 games per year push the XBox 360 or PS3, imagine how expensive it'll be to push those new consoles beyond Wii-U.
Nobody thinks about that, and how much would the consoles cost?, everyone thinks "POWER!!!!!!" but they don't think about the cost, and I don't see Sony wanting to make another loss off the PS4.
If they are already in development for PC (Which may be a smart move for pubs next generation) then it would be a lot easier to downscale the high res assets that you're already making.
I think some games will look better on wiiu compared to ps360. It just going to take awhile for the wiiu to catch up.
Now for next Gen we already have games that look wayyy better than ps360 games before the consoles have even been announced. First time we have next Gen engines shown before the consoles are even announce.
metalslimer
Member
You mean the PC games running on higher end hardware than what will be on the PS4/720. We haven't seen any PS4 titles.
lwilliams3
Member
I know this statement keeps coming up, but can you link to the post in which Lherre said that? I recall him saying something like "I'm not sure about (dreamcast vs xbox, or PS2 vs xbox), but I think the former." He appeared to be talking solely about xbox720, as he clearly stated more than once that it was superior to the PS4. BGA got the same info, but got a different opinion on the overall ranking.
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Dreamwriter
Member
Well, Microsoft at least has an initiative to handle that cost point. They've got consumers buying systems on contract with monthly fees now - I'm pretty sure the $99 XBox 360 on contract is a test to get all the kinks worked out so they can release a $299 Xbox 720 on contract.
Next gen is going to be soooo fun.
We're going to see this,
and this,
and this,
Personally, you would have to be a graphic's whore to hate any of them.
For me, Square's Luminous engine was the most impressive. If they can match that engine to halfway decent game, I'd be happy.
/\/\ funny thing about these tech demos. Go back and watch the FF7 techdemo for ps3. I remember at the time I thought no way they will be able to produce games like that on ps3. It looks sooo dated now...
In a close box john carmack said you can double the performance of a gpu compare to PC. So you have the best gpu out against the PS4 at 3.72 tflops[2x 1.86 glfops]. This is from the API software overhead that you do not get on a console.
He said it will be bigger than dc-xbox.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38277835&postcount=7458
Iherre quoted on beyond3d :
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1653789&highlight=lherre#post1653789
WE have the specs for the ps4. Its has a 1.86 tflop GPU. The highest end pc card out there is Radeon HD 7970 at 3.79 tflops.
In a close box john carmack said you can double the performance of a gpu compare to PC. So you have the best gpu out against the PS4 at 3.72 tflops[2x 1.86 glfops]. This is from the API software overhead that you do not get on a console.
This is where he was commenting on it. He was given 2 choices of dc-xbox or ps2 to xbox.
He said it will be bigger than dc-xbox.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38277835&postcount=7458
Iherre quoted on beyond3d :
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1653789&highlight=lherre#post1653789
Glorified G
Member
Next gen is going to be soooo fun.
We're going to see this,
Personally, you would have to be a graphic's whore to hate any of them.
I love the fact you used a off screen zelda gif to try to prove a point. Reminds me of people using off screen GT5 gifs to try to hide all the flaws.
nordique
Member
How?
Last I checked, overall, it was profitable. That alone, negates your seemingly baseless statement
lostinblue
Banned
You're taking what the man said out of context.
Optimization on a closed platform is higher, specially when the generation advances and it starts being outdated; that doesn't mean it does more gflops or is in parity with more powerful hardware, just that lots of the time they start doing stuff in roundabout ways in order to preserve performance; kinda like how Shadow of the Colossus was able to fake HDR on the PS2 or how for example PC games can often waste resources on dynamic shadows whereas if you're really tight on a console and the game allows it you might as well just pre-bake the whole level in order to save resources. Gflops don't increase and doing 1080p won't be any easier to do on a platform with less gigaflops than a PC just because it's a closed platform, it's not suddenly the same because a lot of those tasks rely on power alone.
There's no parity and no equivalency, there's just optimization and perseverance in order to keep up; because if it doesn't and the lead platform is the PC you might as well cancel the console version (which is also a factor since with this in mind a lot of games are done targeting consoles and only then up-built with some extras for PC; doing the oposite would prove to be harder; as a matter of fact if it wasn't for console's, the UE4 tech demo is running on existing hardware as is the square-enix one)
They're also saying that Wii U is gonna get it's butt kicked by iPad 4 (when iPad 3 is sitting at a mere 30 Gigaflops)
Not every "developer" or "insider" really knows what he's talking about.
Time will tell the actual difference, because right now we're just saying ~600 is different than 1860; visually (and we've seen that) it's really hard to translate what something looking 2/3 times better looks like; other than it looks better.
There'll be a point when it doesn't really matter, probably not this gen, but doubling or trippling the power certainly doesn't translate into a difference as big as it meant 10 years ago.
JordanN
Banned
If there was a direct feed of the build with new lighting I would be happy to post it.
I was talking about making powerhouses. And read the rest of conversation that followed if you still agree or disagree with me.
nordique
Member
So what exactly is your point in saying this. I don't believe he compared them or made any statement about power. What is he trying to hide?
That's like 99% of his gimmick. He's the evolution of burntpork.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
There's a direct feed video of it?
nordique
Member
Okay. So how does Gamecube disagree? I'd said: "Nintendo is in the business of making money, not in the business of making powerhouses"
Last I checked, the Gamecube made money.
It was not the most powerful system/graphics pushing device of its time, by and large.
I don't see your point.
JordanN
Banned
I wasn't against the 'not making money' (in fact, I don't find making money and being powerful to be contradictory).
And what constitutes powerhouse in your eyes? If it's simply being the most powerful then you don't consider Xbox 360 as one no?
There is a perverse and curious part of me that wonders how long the "Studios Closed Since.." thread is going to get this time around.
Wii U Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comic Con
bgassassin
Member
Seemingly addressed. Though credit for finding that goes to wsippel.
The latter would be a huge step over the former. Man Nintendo's E3 has got you really perturbed. XD
Particles! I'm drowning in them!
Do what now?
To some degree more powerful is almost always going to mean more expensive. That's almost exactly why the GCN was awesome. It hit a really magic equilibrium point where it produced great graphics at a low costs.
The larger problem is that the term "powerhouse" doesn't really describe much outside of a subjective assessment of a console's "power." When most talk about the gamecube's power they usually speak in relation to it's cost and architecture.
The gamecube is an efficient and inexpensive piece of hardware that was tiny as well. Sure it was more "powerful' than the PS2 and less so than the xbox, but just looking at it that way doesn't really give you much detail on why it was good or the specifics of hardware.
If you want to say the GCN was or was not a "powerhouse" then go for it. Why is it so important to use these subjective terms to describe hardware?
Today is the day I learned that my PC GPU is weaker than Wii U's GPU.
Well there is all this "info" around suggesting that they were doing something like a < 2Ghz processor and possibly not SMT which would be a huge step down from the expected.
Has it what! I'm having a aneurysm every time I hear more crappy news about third parties not committing, the uber beast PS4/720's, or read some bollocks by Iwata or Reggie.
I feel completely shafted by the Wii generation, however I am a Nintendo fan (Believe it or not) and love my 3d Mario, Zelda and Metroid so I'd prefer to have those games next generation. However I also really want those third party titles. I want to play Tomb Raider et al, but I don't see myself being able to afford two systems. To not own a Nintendo system next generation would really bum me out but to own one and not have many games might do so more
I'm just hoping that we start to hear some really good news soon wrt third party "core" games.
I think it's time to pop open a bottle of Jacks and ride it until launch day
metalslimer
Member
Wha....the...
Apophis2036
Banned
The UE4 and FF Tech demo along with the Star Wars 1313 gameplay demo were all running on state of the art PC hardware, most likely an Intel Core i7 4Ghz CPU, 16GB's of Ram and a GTX 680 GPU.
Thats over $1000 worth of hardware and even PS4 and 720 are rumoured to cost $400 so they are not going to look like that i'm afraid.
People need to lower their expectations for next gen, these are consoles and by definition they are restricted by price and more importantly heat in those small cases.
I feel next E3 will have lots of meltdowns because of the hype of next gen.
Glorified G
Member
something something closed optimized hardware, blah. Been said a million times before anyway.
JordanN
Banned
Agni's ran on a single GTX 680, which goes beyond any rumored/confirmed specs, so it's unlikely.
Apophis2036
Banned
The engine should be fully scalable to even PS360 levels, whether Square feel there is a big enough market for a 'serious' mainline Final Fantasy on Wii U is another question.
While im posting, two things that leaked right before and on the day of E3, any more info ?.
The Majoras Mask gameplay video, defo fanmade or a possible leak ?.
The FF15 trailer with 'available on PS3 and Wii U' at the end.
Cheers.
Temporarily fixed that for ya! j/k
Hmm, I'd like to see how the gifs compare if you had captured footage from this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiZ6Cd1j8U
It's the best quality video of the Zelda demo, afaik. But yeah, if those are an indication of where nextgen is going visually, either of those 3 would satisfy me(tho, I'm not a fan of the art in the UE4 demo).
But it won't look nearly as good will it? Because honestly that blows the Zelda demo out of the water.
and as far as the MM video, take it from me, its fake. But I have no clue about the FF15 trailer.
JordanN
Banned
Max texture size the console can display. For example, the DS can support textures of up to 1024 x 1024. Of course, this doesn't mean all textures are like it since higher texture size = more memory needed.
Games at 1080p have higher image quality than those of 720p due to more pixels being present (resulting in a clearer image).
metalslimer
Member
That "FF15" trailer was faker than fake. Same footage from earlier this year looking like it was being filmed in a college classroom.
Yeah, that I understand, what Im wondering about is more the quality, as in is that good or bad on a 1080p screen, and what type of hardware would you need to produce such textures.
edit... how much ram?
Apophis2036
Banned
As BG has said many times Wii U will be capable of 'scaled down' PC / PS4 / 720 multiplatform games, it's whether the developers will want to spend the time and money on developing them for the console that's the issue.
The best analogy he ever wrote on here was something along the lines of 'PS360 were 20 times more powerful than the Wii, PS4 / 720 will be 4 times more powerful at most'.
That tells you everything you really need to know about it's power imo, pretty impressive and don't judge it by NSMB U and Nintendo Land.
Aw, i love that Majora's Mask video, such a creepy soundtrack, it really didn't help that i watched that about 4 mins before Nintendo's E3 2012 conference lol ! :'(.
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