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22 dead, 59 injured in Manchester Arena explosion (Being treated as an attack)

Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Unrelated in some sense, but

From January 2011 Andrew Norfolk of The Times pressed the issue, reporting in 2012 that the abuse in the town was widespread, and that the police and council had known about it for over ten years.
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Importantly,

The failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; fear that the perpetrators' ethnicity would trigger allegations of racism and damage community relations; the Labour council's reluctance to challenge a Labour-voting ethnic minority; lack of a child-centred focus; a desire to protect the town's reputation; and lack of training and resources.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

So yeah, without a doubt, when the authorities in this country have reports they need to put aside 'nonsensical' fears like the above and act. When they don't act, it can lead to outcomes like this or the above.

An independent enquiry is needed here, not just the papers and tabloids whipping the people into a frenzy. We need to know exactly what was reported and why the authorities didn't act or what they did do.

Multiple arrests now

Two men arrested in Manchester

This brings the total number of men in custody to eight

Posted at 6:17 BREAKING

Greater Manchester Police said they have been carrying out searches at an address in the Withington area and a man has been arrested this morning.

Another man has been arrested in the Manchester area in connection with the investigation.

This brings the total number of men in custody to eight.

A woman who was arrested in Blackley on Wednesday evening has since been released without charge.
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Not exactly surprised it is eight men and the one woman taken in was even released.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967
 
Business

Business

Member
Thornton Reed said:
After reading this mornings report in the independent I don't ever want to hear "the Muslim community needs to do more" people can fuck off with that bullshit. An unnamed member of his family and people in his community reported this piece of shit to the police, what more could the community to do? I feel so fucking angry reading that report this morning.
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Being angry is fine but don't turn fascist.
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
Apparently the army and police are on their way to the college in Trafford.


Edit: Explosive Ordinance Disposal have arrived too.
 
K

Khoryos

Member
We just had a minute's silence at work in commemoration - maybe it's just me, but that seems like the wrong way to commemorate this - I'd have gone for something more cheerful as the best way of expressing defiance and solidarity.
 
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Maledict

Member
Khoryos said:
We just had a minute's silence at work in commemoration - maybe it's just me, but that seems like the wrong way to commemorate this - I'd have gone for something more cheerful as the best way of expressing defiance and solidarity.
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That's the traditional means of marking something like this in the UK.
 
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Matty8787

Member
Khoryos said:
We just had a minute's silence at work in commemoration - maybe it's just me, but that seems like the wrong way to commemorate this - I'd have gone for something more cheerful as the best way of expressing defiance and solidarity.
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The minutes silence is a way for people to reflect quietly on their thoughts it's a brilliant way to do things.. the one in the city was followed by rupturous applause it was fantastically done.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
Khoryos said:
We just had a minute's silence at work in commemoration - maybe it's just me, but that seems like the wrong way to commemorate this - I'd have gone for something more cheerful as the best way of expressing defiance and solidarity.
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You can't act happy when someone's killed some kids. It's just a mark of respect to the dead.
 
S

Septic360

Banned
Khoryos said:
We just had a minute's silence at work in commemoration - maybe it's just me, but that seems like the wrong way to commemorate this - I'd have gone for something more cheerful as the best way of expressing defiance and solidarity.
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Errr we just had it too at work. Plot twist: we work right next to each other!
 
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Meadows

Banned
Situation in Hulme was a false alarm.

DAqnHL-XYAEbuSn.jpg:large
 
M

Mr Git

Member
Christ at the right wing press gunning for the security services. They didn't make a fuss when the same services had severe cuts and underfunding - actually in hindsight I think the T'graph did.
 
Business

Business

Member
Thornton Reed said:
what the fuck are you on about. I made a post basically defending the Muslim community and you tell be not to become a facist.

in other news apparently a huge police operation is underway in Hulme. A school has been evacuated.
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How else would you call it when you don't even want to hear an opinion that's different from yours and preemptively tell anyone who may disagree to fuck off with their bullshit?

I will go ahead and admit I don't know if the Muslim community is doing enough, but on pure principle I don't think it's such an outrageous position to hold that grants an instant fuck off. I would personally enjoy reading a civilised discussion on the subject by Muslims or non Muslim people that has contact or works with this community.

On this topic, the other day I was reading this article from The Guardian from which I'll quote

Saeed said he gave a strong sermon against terrorism and about the sanctity of life in 2015. He said 2,000 members of the mosque were with him; a small number were not; and a few signed a petition criticising him.

“Salman showed me a face of hate after that sermon,” he said. “He was showing me hatred.”

Saeed said a friend was so worried that he got his adult children to sit beside Salman Abedi in case he was attacked.

Saeed, who was born in Libya and came to the UK in 2000, said he was worried he would be labelled a “snitch”. But he said: “I have to speak out to protect our community, to protect innocent people.”
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Obviously it's good there's a guy doing a sermon against terrorism to the community, and besides the fact that it says a handful of people were against it (and therefore pro terrorism? which is worrying) the worst part for me is the part where it says he is afraid to speak out (to the newspaper I understand) as he could be called "a snitch". This last part makes me think something is wrong in there, but like I said, my knowledge on the subject is very limited and I'd enjoy reading what people more in the know have to say, rather than just your mindless fuck offs.
 
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GoldenCrow

Member
SpeedOfNuts said:
How else would you call it when you don't even want to hear an opinion that's different from yours and preemptively tell anyone who may disagree to fuck off with their bullshit?

I will go ahead and admit I don't know if the Muslim community is doing enough, but on pure principle I don't think it's such an outrageous position to hold that grants an instant fuck off. I would personally enjoy reading a civilised discussion on the subject by Muslims or non Muslim people that has contact or works with this community.
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Sorry but this really pisses me off. Muslims don't have to do anything, the religion isn't a monolith. We don't hold all christians to the account of a pedo priest nor the killings of doctors by the Army of God. ISIL are the muslim equivalent of Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland or Lord's Resistance Army and we don't/didn't expect the Christian community to be responsible for them. Nor do we hold the same blanket statements for communities of other ideologies when there are fuck-wits from sects that are murdering abusive assholes we generally hold the people who engaged and support these action accountable. Time and time again the various different muslim communities speak out against these kind of actions, give support to those in need, report those they think are suspicious and yet people are still holding onto this bullshit narrative yet fail to see their hypocrisy. I say this as a person who thinks the abrahamic religions are a load of old bollocks, and that most others aren't that much better either.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Hopefully it is a false alarm, there is a good likelihood it is as everyone is on high alert. There have been a lot of false alarms in Manchester since the attack.
 
M

Mindwipe

Member
I have to be honest, a nutter with a gun in Ealing Broadway (completely unrelated to Islamic terrorism) wouldn't be considered *that* unusual normally...
 
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GeordieMark

Member
Just read that Manchester United and Manchester City have generously pledged the combined total of £1 million to the fund for the victims families. That's less than Wayne Rooney earns in a month. Can't help but feel that they could do so much more given they are two of the richest football clubs in the world and will probably spend close to £200 million each this summer.
 
B

Budi

Member
GeordieMark said:
Just read that Manchester United and Manchester City have generously pledged the combined total of £1 million to the fund for the victims families. That's less than Wayne Rooney earns in a month. Can't help but feel that they could do so much more given they are two of the richest football clubs in the world and will probably spend close to £200 million each this summer.
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Sure and there are inviduals and organizations that could afford but don't help the people affected at all. This shouldn't be spinned in a negative light at all imo. Like how about other rich english football clubs.
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
Budi said:
Sure and there are inviduals and organizations that could afford but don't help the people affected at all. This shouldn't be spinned in a negative light at all imo.
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Yeah, I appreciate its better than nothing, but its hard not see it this way given the money earned and wasted by football teams.
 
Business

Business

Member
GoldenCrow said:
Sorry but this really pisses me off. Muslims don't have to do anything, the religion isn't a monolith. We don't hold all christians to the account of a pedo priest nor the killings of doctors by the Army of God. ISIL are the muslim equivalent of Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland or Lord's Resistance Army and we don't/didn't expect the Christian community to be responsible for them. Nor do we hold the same blanket statements for communities of other ideologies when there are fuck-wits from sects that are murdering abusive assholes we generally hold the people who engaged and support these action accountable. Time and time again the various different muslim communities speak out against these kind of actions, give support to those in need, report those they think are suspicious and yet people are still holding onto this bullshit narrative yet fail to see their hypocrisy. I say this as a person who thinks the abrahamic religions are a load of old bollocks, and that most others aren't that much better either.
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I disagree. I'm not saying Muslim communities have to apologise for every nutcase that blows himself up in the name of Islam if that is what you think I'm saying by me doubting if they do enough of not.

What I say is that specially the people with authority there, have the chance and therefore almost the moral duty to work within their communities on instances like the one and the article I quoted on my last post. If you have certain individuals in the commuity that show support or understanding of terrorism, because they have been fed ISIS propaganda on the internet or whatever, the people of religious authority there have to work on these individuals to get this shit out of their minds (they can and they must I believe), as well as opening the community to the outside as much as possible so there's no the us vs them vibe the snitch comment gives me.

They already do the maximum possible? It's possible. They don't need to do anything? I disagree.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
GeordieMark said:
Just read that Manchester United and Manchester City have generously pledged the combined total of £1 million to the fund for the victims families. That's less than Wayne Rooney earns in a month. Can't help but feel that they could do so much more given they are two of the richest football clubs in the world and will probably spend close to £200 million each this summer.
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GeordieMark said:
Yeah, I appreciate its better than nothing, but its hard not see it this way given the money earned and wasted by football teams.
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That's a pretty petty way to look at contributing voluntarily to aid. Life and business still carry on in the wake of an atrocity, and what is important is every amount, whatever it is, anyone voluntarily gives from their own pockets. It's not a competition.

You might as well start swinging at every and any business raking in millions that they don't give it all away. Plus, this is the clubs contributing, you have no idea what individuals may or may not be doing. Quite often anyone of fame donates and helps privately. Otherwise, you'd have these nonsensical witch hunts in the media that person A didn't contribute as much as person B, and person C hasn't seemed to contribute at all.

Finally, both clubs do a lot in the communities as it is. With help for hospitals, kids and more.
 
B

Budi

Member
GeordieMark said:
Yeah, I appreciate its better than nothing, but its hard not see it this way given the money earned and wasted by football teams.
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Yeah I do agree and understand to some extent, but as I said it's just not the football teams and players raking in dough. Formula 1 drivers like Lewis Hamilton, high paid actors like Jude Law, musical perfomers like Adele. Ofcourse it's possible and also very likely that these people have done much good with their money. But us regular folks often think that they could do so much more, not to mention the executives and companies not only celebrities in entertainment. Also in cases outside of this.

What you suggested wasn't outrageous at all, I was just sharing a bit different perspective.
 
M

moggio

Banned
King_Moc said:
Really? I mean, even if you don't see the point, everyone else clearly does so maybe just shut the fuck up.
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People can observe a silence if they choose to even if other people choose not to.

Pankratous said:
Uh... it's incredibly disrespectful?
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It may or may not be.

If you chose to observe the silence, why not focus on the reason you are observing the silence rather than shaming other people who chose not to observe (even if they are intentionally being a dick about it).
 
M

moggio

Banned
The Living Tribunal said:
Wat
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There is no obligation to observe a silence.

There are many reasons why you may choose to observe, or not observe, a silence.

There are many ways to pay your respects which may or may not include participating in a silence.

Even if someone chooses not to observe a silence purely to be a dick - there is no obligation to observe a silence.

Would it be better to cajole this person into silence against their will? Is that respectful to the people whom you are paying respect to by participating in a silence?
 
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