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Idle Thumbs Megathread | Indepth discussion inbetween horsebags and birdsounds

ampere

Member
I'm a pretty new listener to Thumbs, and I didn't even need to see a thread to go check it out this week.

It's pretty relaxing to listen to Thumbs while playing a simple game, the guys are pretty funny and can have serious conversations too. That 'Thirty Flights of Loving' game was worth the time and $5, it was pretty unique and captivating.
 

randomwab

Member
I hope the twins weren't too effected by watching an entire town and their own team get slaughtered.

At least they have each other.
 

Shaneus

Member
The guy who was role playing as one of the in-game characters was incredible. Glad the dudes picked up on it, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed.
 

sixghost

Member
I tried playing X-Com a few weeks ago and had absolutely no clue what to do, and failed at just about every turn. It's comforting to see that's the case even for experienced players.
 

Jintor

Member
I can't get over how beautiful the site looks! Although personally the main page is a little too large, the episode show banner size is just right for me
 
I can't get over how beautiful the site looks! Although personally the main page is a little too large, the episode show banner size is just right for me

The front page banner size is partly dependent on your browser size--if you reduce the width of your browser window, it will decrease in height at a few points. It's still pretty big though!

We had a lot of really wacky design ideas when we were putting this thing together, and a lot of them ended up being (sensibly) toned down a bit by the time the final site launched, but the big-ass front page image was one of those ideas we ended up keeping. It's definitely unusual, but we like it--maybe we were just compensating for years of frustratingly tiny episode art.
 

Jintor

Member
I note blog.idlethumbs.net is still based on the ol' tumblr theme and hasn't been migrated over to the main site theme just yet though.
 
I note blog.idlethumbs.net is still based on the ol' tumblr theme and hasn't been migrated over to the main site theme just yet though.

Yeah the current blog page is just something I put together based on the old intermediary site and is still itself temporary. However, it's not going to be merged into the style of the rest of the site. It'll have its own separate design, for a few reasons. One, all the actual code is hosted on Tumblr, so it would start to be a pain if it had to be kept in sync with the rest of the site (we can't just push changes to our server and have them update on the blog as well). Also, we kind of like the idea of self-contained parts of the site like the blog having their own identity.

Redesigning the blog though is lower priority than some other parts of the site which need more work right now though, so I'm not sure when it'll happen.
 

eot

Banned
One complaint I have about the site is the number of clicks it takes to get to the episode archive. I didn't listen to the show when it started so I'm going through the old episodes. On the blog there was a link right there that took you to a page with all the episodes. On the new site however, it's shows -> IT -> scroll down all the way -> archive then seven discreet pages with only a sequential page select. Now I just go to the RSS feed instead so it's not a big problem but I thought I'd mention it anyway. I hope I don't come off as too petty complaining about having to do 5-6 clicks.
 
One complaint I have about the site is the number of clicks it takes to get to the episode archive. I didn't listen to the show when it started so I'm going through the old episodes. On the blog there was a link right there that took you to a page with all the episodes. On the new site however, it's shows -> IT -> scroll down all the way -> archive then seven discreet pages with only a sequential page select. Now I just go to the RSS feed instead so it's not a big problem but I thought I'd mention it anyway. I hope I don't come off as too petty complaining about having to do 5-6 clicks.

Yeah, I agree. We're trying to think of a better way to do this. It's tough now that the site is home to three different podcasts rather than one.
 
As a member of the House of Lords and long time listener, I'm quite pleased with how things have turned out for Team Thumb. The regular podcast was of course the main and most sought after return, but the quality of the website and the very enjoyable Saturday Morning Streams have been a delightful bonus.

In my official Family Matters canon, Carl Winslow was indeed drafted into X-Com service, and sadly after a brief but heroic tour fell victim to psychic powers from space, and a sloppy rescue effort by his comrades.

I have faith that Laura, Eddie, and Steve joined the mission not long after, to avenge this brave, humble man from the mean streets of Chicago. God rest your soul, Officer Winslow.
 

Jb

Member
Really enjoyed the first bookcast, even if it'd been awhile since I read Sense of an ending, and therefore didn't really remember my interpretation of it.

As far as the main cast goes, I can't help but be a little disappointed that they seem to have narrowed down the games (and games related shenanigans) that they're willing to talk about on the show compared to the days of old, when they'd riff on stuff ranging from bad Activision PR to games as mainstream as Resident Evil or Tomb Raider. It feels like funny film critics suddenly deciding that they're only going to talk about Asghar Farhadi, Haneke and Audiard movies because most of Hollywood's output is junk :/
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
As a member of the House of Lords and long time listener, I'm quite pleased with how things have turned out for Team Thumb. The regular podcast was of course the main and most sought after return, but the quality of the website and the very enjoyable Saturday Morning Streams have been a delightful bonus.
Seconded.
 

Shaneus

Member
Really enjoyed the first bookcast, even if it'd been awhile since I read Sense of an ending, and therefore didn't really remember my interpretation of it.

As far as the main cast goes, I can't help but be a little disappointed that they seem to have narrowed down the games (and games related shenanigans) that they're willing to talk about on the show compared to the days of old, when they'd riff on stuff ranging from bad Activision PR to games as mainstream as Resident Evil or Tomb Raider. It feels like funny film critics suddenly deciding that they're only going to talk about Asghar Farhadi, Haneke and Audiard movies because most of Hollywood's output is junk :/
It's probably been at a fairly odd time for that sort of thing, though... I agree with you in a small way, but with such a big gap since E3 and only just now coming out of the quietest time of year (as far as releases go) there really hasn't been any dodgy PR or shady practices for the dudes to comment on. So it's pretty much just left to games, I guess.
 

Jintor

Member
Bookcast: exceptional. I recall that my interpretation is largely in line with Chris's, but as I mentioned a while ago I feel as though I had already internalised (not to imply with Chris had not, but-) that message long ago and thus didn't really take away as much from the book as Chris appears to have.

Unfortunately I don't think I will get Cloud Atlas for another week and a half :/
 
As far as the main cast goes, I can't help but be a little disappointed that they seem to have narrowed down the games (and games related shenanigans) that they're willing to talk about on the show compared to the days of old, when they'd riff on stuff ranging from bad Activision PR to games as mainstream as Resident Evil or Tomb Raider. It feels like funny film critics suddenly deciding that they're only going to talk about Asghar Farhadi, Haneke and Audiard movies because most of Hollywood's output is junk :/

My guess is that they can't really do that anymore, because now all of them are working for developers. In the old days it was only Jake and I remember him sometimes saying something like "I can't really comment on this topic."

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I quite enjoyed the last two episode of Three Moves Ahead (even though I'm not really into strategy games). The topics were how to teach games and the history of war gaming. Very interesting discussions!
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
My guess is that they can't really do that anymore, because now all of them are working for developers. In the old days it was only Jake and I remember him sometimes saying something like "I can't really comment on this topic."

I think it is also that during the original run of Idle Thumbs, 2 of the 3 were game journalists. Now that they all work at developers, I doubt Chris is reading through Activision PR statements like he used to have to do. Nor are they motivated to keep up with whatever is the latest game.
 
I think it is also that during the original run of Idle Thumbs, 2 of the 3 were game journalists. Now that they all work at developers, I doubt Chris is reading through Activision PR statements like he used to have to do.

Yeah, that makes sense, too. And related to that, it's sad we won't get any more of the epic shareholder meeting reports. No more treats :-(
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Yeah, that makes sense, too. And related to that, it's sad we won't get any more of the epic shareholder meeting reports. No more treats :-(

That actually reminds me that one of my favorite parts of the PAX panel was the guy who during the Q&A period asked if there would be any gifts/demos and that the previous guy was a lot more fun. I thought it was a great throwback to the EA shareholder story in one of the early episodes.
 
Just wanted to pop in to thank the Thumbs for turning me on to FTL--me and my roomie who doesn't even game much are having a blast struggling with it. Brilliant game.
 

ampere

Member
Decided to check out an older podcast, picked one from 2010 where they're talking about Assassin's Creed 2 (which I have played)

Chris Remo is killing me with his commentary on the game, talking about the how the prostitute hiring works haha

"I basically churned through prostitutes in this game"
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Is there any way to watch the twitch feeds on an iPad? The website needs flash, and I can't find idlethumbs on the twitch app, I've tried searching,NAND following on the web but it doesn't show up in the app.
 
I'm sure no one else remembers this, but I might as well ask. Did they ever post those phobia big dog drawings that were sent by a fan to terrify Jake? That was a long, long time ago, but I remember clown big dog and fear of heights big dog.
 

Copenap

Member
I've really become a fan of this podcast after only discovering it a few month ago here on gaf and now it's one of the only three podcasts im interested in listening to (actually only really two nowadays, R.I.P. SotG).

Is there going to be another XCOM stream?
 

Rlan

Member
I don't see a new thread so I'll mention it here:

Regarding the "third level" in X-COM's demo, maybe the team was actually doing some A-B testing of the group at PAX to see whether they'd either need or get to the third level?

Secondly, Halfbrick also hires a lot of young guys. I was hired when I was 25, and I've since gone to two 21st birthdays of people who work here :)
 

eot

Banned
On the topic of kids' games, I think The Sims is a game whose* success can be attributed to the fact that it lets players tell their own stories. They're not emergent the same way they are in FTL or X-COM, but I think there are some similarities there anyway.

*
is there a possessive form of 'which'?
 

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
I only had a chance to listen to the first part of the podcast, but I really appreciated Chris's comments on X-COM's control scheme. I don't think the demo did a very good job of explaining the various ways you can do things, but if you mess around a bit you realize you have the choice of doing everything with just the keyboard, just the mouse, or a combination of both. While I will say mouse movement felt a bit off, overall I thought the controls and UI were really good. The ranting going on about it online (more over at Something Awful than the GAF thread) was headache inducing.
 

Rufus

Member
*
is there a possessive form of 'which'?
'Whose' is fine. You'd have to change the sentence around to insert 'which' and I don't think it's worth it. Don't listen to any editors that may chime in, their opinions are worthless.
 

randomwab

Member
The talk about getting design jobs in the industry was really disheartening. It's the most fascinating aspect of games to me, and recently I was looking at possibly viable paths to possibly get there, with no real solution. Now I know why. :(
 

eznark

Banned
30 minutes in, when does the Sean Vanaman Show presented by Sean Vanaman brought to you by Sean Vanaman starring Sean Vanaman with special guest Sean Vanaman and appearances by Sean Vanaman, Sean Vanaman and Sean Vanaman end and Idle Thumbs begin?
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Tokyo Jungle sounds like something Chris might be into these days, and even if it's not good or he doesn't like it, it would make for good Thumb chatter.
 

LCfiner

Member
I'm late to this but I'm watching the X-Com stream and JP does such an excellent job driving these and describing what he's thinking as he goes. This can be such a hard thing to do right.

I never played X-Com (wasn't into strategy PC games at the time) and seeing X-Com played by someone who knows what they're doing is a lot of fun.

next up on my list is the Day-Z stream with Evan driving.

I love these streams, Idle Thumbs guys. they're exactly what i need while I'm at home feeling sick. thanks so much for putting them up.
 

kadotsu

Banned
One day Chris Remo will learn about the Chomsky hierarchy and will finally use the word regular instead of deterministic to describe game design. This day can't come soon enough.
 

Ledsen

Member
One day Chris Remo will learn about the Chomsky hierarchy and will finally use the word regular instead of deterministic to describe game design. This day can't come soon enough.

I know nothing of the Chomsky hierarchy but I still feel that "deterministic" is a faulty way of separating "linear" and "non-linear" games. Determinism implies that given a specific set of circumstances, a particular outcome is inevitable. That can be the case whether the a game is heavily scripted or not, because even non-linear games will satisfy the "if A, then B" condition unless they employ randomness. In other words, even in a non-linear game, the game systems can still be strictly deterministic (eg you will always hit a target if your aim is true). At least that's how I understand it. But maybe Chris was talking about determinism in the broader sense of story progression, in which case he's totally right.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Median

Member
Tokyo Jungle sounds like something Chris might be into these days, and even if it's not good or he doesn't like it, it would make for good Thumb chatter.

Yeah, I tweeted that at the Idle Thumbs account a couple days ago, hopefully they'll take a look. It's the kind of weird, dumb shit that those guys typically love.
 
I know nothing of the Chomsky hierarchy but I still feel that "deterministic" is a faulty way of separating "linear" and "non-linear" games. Determinism implies that given a specific set of circumstances, a particular outcome is inevitable. That can be the case whether the a game is heavily scripted or not, because even non-linear games will satisfy the "if A, then B" condition unless they employ randomness. In other words, even in a non-linear game, the game systems can still be strictly deterministic (eg you will always hit a target if your aim is true). At least that's how I understand it. But maybe Chris was talking about determinism in the broader sense of story progression, in which case he's totally right.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

When I use the term "deterministic" I am generally using it in the sense of major plot events, and the order in which they occur--not with respect to the outcome of any specific interaction. Games tend to get grouped into two rough categories when it comes to story/beat progression, although obviously there are games that contain elements of both or have edge cases that make the distinction a bit tougher. When I use the term, I use it loosely.



One day Chris Remo will learn about the Chomsky hierarchy and will finally use the word regular instead of deterministic to describe game design. This day can't come soon enough.

If you were actually desperately hoping this, you've had the entire run of the show to date during which you could have written an email to questions@idlethumbs.net, which we mention in pretty much every episode! Although I think if I started referring to certain games as "regular" it would be essentially meaningless to the vast majority of readers, including myself. I am not a computer scientist, and searching for "Chomsky hierarchy game design" suggests that the application of this concept to game design is not even close to widespread enough that anyone should reasonably expect people to be drawing that connection. It might be a very interesting connection to draw, but I would leave it to somebody who has already done so to explain it to me in terms that I am likely to comprehend.
 

eznark

Banned
One day Chris Remo will learn about the Chomsky hierarchy and will finally use the word regular instead of deterministic to describe game design. This day can't come soon enough.

This is the most passive aggressive self stroke I have ever read. Well done, poindexter.
 

kadotsu

Banned
When I use the term "deterministic" I am generally using it in the sense of major plot events, and the order in which they occur--not with respect to the outcome of any specific interaction. Games tend to get grouped into two rough categories when it comes to story/beat progression, although obviously there are games that contain elements of both or have edge cases that make the distinction a bit tougher. When I use the term, I use it loosely.





If you were actually desperately hoping this, you've had the entire run of the show to date during which you could have written an email to questions@idlethumbs.net, which we mention in pretty much every episode! Although I think if I started referring to certain games as "regular" it would be essentially meaningless to the vast majority of readers, including myself. I am not a computer scientist, and searching for "Chomsky hierarchy game design" suggests that the application of this concept to game design is not even close to widespread enough that anyone should reasonably expect people to be drawing that connection. It might be a very interesting connection to draw, but I would leave it to somebody who has already done so to explain it to me in terms that I am likely to comprehend.

Thanks for the clarification. I actually thought you used deterministic in a specific manner, which rubbed me the wrong way because it would put every system with a random number generator in the same category as something like a Far Cry 2 or Civ. Since we both mean the same thing I am actually in agreement with you about the last couple of episodes.
On my prior point, I feel the Chomsky hierarchy (and complexity theory in general) is a good tool to categorize game systems and their narrative consequences since the broadest set is every language that can be solved by a Turing complete automaton which fits nicely with the "canvas" video games are made on.
I feel that game specific analysis is still too reliant on heuristic methods, and computer science and math have already created sharp(er) tools to categorize and delineate the algorithmic-mechanic part of gaming. The next step would be to marry the CS part with the already established analytic methods of theater, prose, film and music and find interdependent parts.
The last thing I want to clarify is that while I might have come of as very condescending I hold Idle Thumbs in the highest regards when it comes to game discussion. You guys helped me more than once to articulate for myself why I like or don't like certain games. Thank you.
 

Shaneus

Member
Know what that post by Chris means? He's seen the mention of Tokyo Jungle
3AQmK.gif
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
This is the mail Sean brought up in the third antidote:
tMwkp.jpg


Episode was fantastic & weird in the best sense :lol .

Also, can't wait to see what Drunk Vannaman wrote as his keynote notes.
 

Shaneus

Member
There's a slight but (what feels to be) pretty major Tokyo Jungle spoiler from the non-Thumb at around 45:00-50:00 min or so (I can't remember). Spoils one of the end-game unlockable animals that plays a part of the story :/

:(
 

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
The idle thumbs $200 questionaire live stream is on the 7th?

Oh god, Can I cancel my question? It's terrible. It makes no fucking sense at all and I've been meaning to get it changed for months, But i'm lazy :(
 
Hey did that album of Idle Thumbs music ever become available for Kickstarter backers? Come to think of it, I never got a postcard either...
 
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