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DR2K · May 21, 2017

BakedTanooki said:
I have a lot of fun with Injustice 2. It's a good game, full of content, fun fights and nice attention to details.
But yeah, I really can not understand how you would defend the animations.
There is so much wrong with many of them.

It's cool if you say, you just don't care. Or maybe you just don't know what to look for, which is also okay.
But don't claim they are fine. They are clearly not.

They're fine. A lot of people are nit picking small details that look off, exaggerated, or are done for gameplay purposes. Guilty Gears animations are total shit, but that's fine for gameplay reasons so it gets a pass for a lot of people here.

UcchedavÄda · May 21, 2017

plasmawave said:
The thing that probably bugs me the most is the KO animation.

https://youtu.be/JTV56BWRxNc?t=337

On top of that, characters will bounce off the ground after the KO, even if they were already flat on the group:
https://clips.twitch.tv/HeadstrongChillyWoodpeckerWutFace

I don't know if it is a general thing, but it was pretty obvious in this case.

MrCarter · May 21, 2017

DR2K said:
They're fine. A lot of people are nit picking small details that look off, exaggerated, or are done for gameplay purposes. Guilty Gears animations are total shit, but that's fine for gameplay reasons so it gets a pass for a lot of people here.

They may look fine to you but I assure you, they are not. Most of them defy logic and animation principles. GG animations are shit? No.

Chev · May 21, 2017

DR2K said:
Guilty Gears animations are total shit, but that's fine for gameplay reasons so it gets a pass for a lot of people here.

Guilty Gear has strong posing and use of all the principles of good animation. They're readable, communicate strength, weight and character, filled with little details that bring each personality to life. The only thing you can hold against them is their framerate, which is a deliberate artistic choice meant to evoke handdrawn animation. Although it's reasonable to begrudge them that specific choice, no animator would consider the GG animations as bad. They're great examples of craftsmanship in all the ways Injustice's aren't.

Quadraphonic · May 22, 2017

ElFly said:
yeah let's pretend the Marvel vs series does not exist and that doesn't make the animation in NRS games look like the shit it is too

"Tron Bonne never took fighting classes. Why does she have a proper pose, balance and reaction?"

Yeah, these are things literally ever pointed out for other fighting games because the animators do their job well.

If the excuse to defend Injustice's 2 shit animations is because they aren't trained fighters, then why do the fighters in the Mortal Kombat games still look like shit, too?

Chev · May 22, 2017

Quadraphonic said:
"Tron Bonne never took fighting classes. Why does she have a proper pose, balance and reaction?"

Yeah, these are things literally ever pointed out for other fighting games because the animators do their job well.

Not to mention people have proper pose, balance and reaction by default, because otherwise they would fall down. It's only badly animated characters who don't.

jett · May 22, 2017

MrCarter said:
They may look fine to you but I assure you, they are not. Most of them defy logic and animation principles. GG animations are shit? No.

It annoys me greatly that ArcSys used the same low-frame style as GGX. It's just too low for my tastes. 3rd Strike has more frames of animation than Xrd.

staticneuron · May 22, 2017

Quadraphonic said:
"Tron Bonne never took fighting classes. Why does she have a proper pose, balance and reaction?"

Yeah, these are things literally ever pointed out for other fighting games because the animators do their job well.

If the excuse to defend Injustice's 2 shit animations is because they aren't trained fighters, then why do the fighters in the Mortal Kombat games still look like shit, too?

If you are talking about marvel vs capcom, you are basically talking about a design choice from capcom. And Tron Bonne is a top heavy bipedal. If the machine isn't in a proper standing pose it would instantly look wrong, idle animation or not.

What other stance would you expect?

KillLaCam · May 22, 2017

MrCarter said:

Is his hand just resting on his hip as he falls? That's really weird too. The actual animation is fine though

yurinka said:
I'd love to see another explaining why women in NRS games don't feel like women. Something that seem to be improving in Injustice 2.

What does this even mean?

Quadraphonic · May 22, 2017

staticneuron said:
If you are talking about marvel vs capcom, you are basically talking about a design choice from capcom. And Tron Bonne is a top heavy bipedal. If the machine isn't in a proper standing pose it would instantly look wrong, idle animation or not.

What other stance would you expect?

That's what I mean.

Wild Card · May 22, 2017

I just recently watched the SBF's Injustice 2 video, and while a lot of the character animations looked wonky, some stuff that really stuck out to me is the Flash's moves, more specifically his I'm hitting you so fast that you can't see my fists. Like a lot of NRS animations, a good idea that can be found in other games, that they bungle up.

The Adder · May 22, 2017

staticneuron said:
It is a comic and animated feature problem. Have you guys not seen or read cyborgs many introductions?

Cyborg doesn't move, fight, or stand anything like he does in Injustice because he's not a martial artist in comics or cartoons. He can throw a punch, but it's never a first option.

This is what Cybord looks like slugging it out

This is how Cyborg poses when he 'idols'

Cannon at the ready. And with just fists:

So don't blame comics for that pose.

Dot-N-Run · May 22, 2017

MrCarter said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4OjDcDlzAw

Finaika · May 22, 2017

MrCarter said:
They may look fine to you but I assure you, they are not. Most of them defy logic and animation principles. GG animations are shit? No.

LOL the way that red guy is falling is pretty funny.

Jharp · May 22, 2017

fantastic video

Skilletor · May 22, 2017

Finaika said:
LOL the way that red guy is falling is pretty funny.

Guilty gear characters stay in character for every single frame of animation. Answer falls on his side like he's taking a phone call the entire time he's being hit.

It's awesome, lol.

ZealousD · May 22, 2017

XANDER CAGE said:
I agree with everything raised in this video except the fatality choreography thing. Those are supposed to be dumb. "Why do you need to cut off his arms before ripping his innards out?" uh because it's hilarious, next question

You can still make it hilarious by having one action follow the next. You've cut off his arms, so now do something with them. Use them to slap the guy around. Shove one of them down his throat. You can do all sorts of stuff.

jett said:
It annoys me greatly that ArcSys used the same low-frame style as GGX. It's just too low for my tastes. 3rd Strike has more frames of animation than Xrd.

3rd strike is also a slower-paced game than Xrd.

Skilletor · May 22, 2017

jett said:
It annoys me greatly that ArcSys used the same low-frame style as GGX. It's just too low for my tastes. 3rd Strike has more frames of animation than Xrd.

3rd strike has more frames of animation than most fighters.

lucebuce12 · May 22, 2017

Skilletor said:
Guilty gear characters stay in character for every single frame of animation. Answer falls on his side like he's taking a phone call the entire time he's being hit.

It's awesome, lol.

Goddamn it, I wish Guilty Gear Xrd had better netcode

I'd love to play it but there are barely enough fighting game players as it is near me, Guilty Gear's gonna be even tougher to find.

Skilletor · May 22, 2017

lucebuce12 said:
Goddamn it, I wish Guilty Gear Xrd had better netcode

I'd love to play it but there are barely enough fighting game players as it is near me, Guilty Gear's gonna be even tougher to find.

I'm playing GG, IJ2 and Tekken until Marvel. We'll see if I can juggle 4 games. Lol

Rev 2 doesn't have the highest number of frames, but the amount of character everybody has is amazing. Was just watching Dizzy's idle animation and one of her wings fixed the bow on her tail. All of answers moves have him with his hand to his ear. He literally never stops talking during the fight. During a taunt, you can hear chipp call, and answer gets flustered and answers all fast.

Guilty gear is amazing. But yeah, netcode isn't the best. :/. I can only play characters with lenient combo timing.

staticneuron · May 22, 2017

The Adder said:
Cyborg doesn't move, fight, or stand anything like he does in Injustice because he's not a martial artist in comics or cartoons. He can throw a punch, but it's never a first option.

.

Seriously?

Cyborg is a brawler in the game as well, not as much as superman per say but they give him a large play style options because of guns and tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mrRtMYq8Mc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXjsir2wxm8

Are you saying that he is not because of the pose alone?

The Adder · May 22, 2017

staticneuron said:
Seriously?

Cyborg is a brawler in the game as well, not as much as superman per say but they give him a large play style options because of guns and tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mrRtMYq8Mc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXjsir2wxm8

Are you saying that he is not because of the pose alone?

I'm saying because he isn't a martial artist he doesn't have a 'stance', which is something only martial artists tend to take up in comics and cartoons. Because everyone is a hand-to-hand combatant to some extent in video games, everyone has a unique stance. My point is that claiming that his crappy one in this game is due to the comics/cartoons is outright false.

zoukka · May 22, 2017

I always thought both series were trying to go for the "b-movie actors in front of a green screen" kind of feel that was established with the first MK. They look stiff, awkward and hilarious and I think it fits both of the MK and the superhero IP's.

Griss · May 22, 2017

Love MK9 and MKX, and thought this argument would be crap before I watched the video but it was very well put together and changed my mind, which is rare.

Jaeger · May 22, 2017

zoukka said:
"b-movie actors in front of a green screen"

This is not a thing or what they are going for. This excuse that they are intentionally making crap animations because of some ode to something is false.

DR2K · May 22, 2017

Finaika said:
LOL the way that red guy is falling is pretty funny.

I like how it ignores all those rules of animations people go on about. Doesn't your hand stay on your hip when you're knocked upside down from right side up in my he span of 1 frame?

VariantX · May 22, 2017

Jaeger said:
This is not a thing or what they are going for. This excuse that they are intentionally making crap animations because of some ode to something is false.

Especially when they're clearly going for Hollywood level presentation and production values literally everywhere else. I mean fuck, look at the character interactions on the char select menu! Amazing stuff. The cinematics in IJ2 are far and away the new pinnacle of what games in the fighter genre has on offer.

David___ · May 22, 2017

zoukka said:
I always thought both series were trying to go for the "b-movie actors in front of a green screen" kind of feel that was established with the first MK. They look stiff, awkward and hilarious and I think it fits both of the MK and the superhero IP's.

The fact that the animations are as good as they are in anywhere but during gameplay dispells this notion

staticneuron · May 22, 2017

The Adder said:
I'm saying because he isn't a martial artist he doesn't have a 'stance', which is something only martial artists tend to take up in comics and cartoons. Because everyone is a hand-to-hand combatant to some extent in video games, everyone has a unique stance. My point is that claiming that his crappy one in this game is due to the comics/cartoons is outright false.

You are coming in to conversation midway with that pov. I was pointing out that his stance, looking like a QB throwing a ball may have been intentional. More as a nod to his history than any real fighting style stance. I reference other movesets and the dialog between firestorm as an example. Also reason why I posted the video to moveset and combo is to show that his transitions into some moves, such as power fist, takes that stance in mind.

Zissou · May 22, 2017

David___ said:
The fact that the animations are as good as they are in anywhere but during gameplay dispells this notion

This right here.

Dark Ninja · May 22, 2017

Holy shit that Cheetah walk, Cyborg stance, and Catwoman kicks. WOW. HAHA

Wild Card · May 22, 2017

Skilletor said:
I'm playing GG, IJ2 and Tekken until Marvel. We'll see if I can juggle 4 games. Lol

Rev 2 doesn't have the highest number of frames, but the amount of character everybody has is amazing. Was just watching Dizzy's idle animation and one of her wings fixed the bow on her tail. All of answers moves have him with his hand to his ear. He literally never stops talking during the fight. During a taunt, you can hear chipp call, and answer gets flustered and answers all fast.

Guilty gear is amazing. But yeah, netcode isn't the best. :/. I can only play characters with lenient combo timing.

Dizzy definitely has the best animation of any character in Guilty Gear right now. Putting her next to Sol illustrates how far they have come with their tech since the original Xrd.

Kilrogg · May 22, 2017

MrCarter said:
They may look fine to you but I assure you, they are not. Most of them defy logic and animation principles. GG animations are shit? No.

What ArcSys did with GGX3 is even more impressive when you know that the Japanese have traditionally struggled to make CG that convincingly converts 2D animation to 3D animation. There are extreme examples out there like the new adaptation of Berserk, which looks awful on every front even though it started in 2016, but even before that, most anime CG animation sucked compared to Western CG.

Well, not so with GGX3. Not only did ArcSys manage to make the 3D look good enough that you don't even realize it's 3D unless you look for it, they managed to animate it with the energy of traditional animation without making it look out of place. People will love or hate the stylistic choice for its deliberately limited amount of frames, and that's fine, but the fundamentals of animation are there even though this is a Japanese game.

shadowstar · May 23, 2017

jett said:
Eh? The animation in SFV is fantastic. While it's true that 3D models in general don't have the exaggerated cartoon-like plasticity of some spritework, that article is comparing SF3 to SF4, which is a far cry from the animation quality in SFV.

Of all the things to hate SFV on, I can't imagine people shitting on the animation.

Chev · May 23, 2017

shadowstar said:
Of all the things to hate SFV on, I can't imagine people shitting on the animation.

Well, in some cases they are, and rightly so (Alex's stance). So much was forgotten after SF3, for no other reason than corporate incompetence, and they haven't rediscovered it all yet. In the case of those Ken animations you can see they're missing the stretch that'd give them that extra, well, kick.

Son Of D · Jun 26, 2017

Sorry for the bump, but he uploaded his video on Erron Black today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VCy1uKpyI

Tye The Czar · Jun 26, 2017

Chev said:
Guilty Gear has strong posing and use of all the principles of good animation. They're readable, communicate strength, weight and character, filled with little details that bring each personality to life. The only thing you can hold against them is their framerate, which is a deliberate artistic choice meant to evoke handdrawn animation.

Even as a lifelong anime fan, low framerate(known as animating on threes) has been the #1 sticking point for me with most Japanese animation. I'm of the opinion that more is almost always better. It's also why I loved SFIII's and Skullgirls' animation so much.

Gbraga · Jun 26, 2017

Son Of D said:
Sorry for the bump, but he uploaded his video on Erron Black today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VCy1uKpyI

Red Hood looks so cool. How is NRS handling the balance patches for Injustice 2?

JusDoIt · Jun 26, 2017

People hating on GG Xrd animations and defending NRS animations. Remarkable.

Kilrogg · Jun 26, 2017

JusDoIt said:
People hating on GG Xrd animations and defending NRS animations. Remarkable.

Some people confuse animation with frames of animation. If it's got more frames of animation, then it's obviously better, right? The same kind of people will argue that this: https://youtu.be/ugoaDdrF-vc?t=97
looks great because "OMG IT'S SO FLUID". But there's no cadence or impact to it. It ends up looking like a catfight or a Benny Hill fast-forward chase scene.

I'll take something "choppier" if all the frames look great and there's a real sense of impact and energy behind each frame.

sixteen-bit · Jun 27, 2017

Son Of D said:
Sorry for the bump, but he uploaded his video on Erron Black today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VCy1uKpyI

Thanks. I wonder if he'll do the rest of the cast.

Baron von Loathsome · Jun 27, 2017

zoukka said:
I always thought both series were trying to go for the "b-movie actors in front of a green screen" kind of feel that was established with the first MK. They look stiff, awkward and hilarious and I think it fits both of the MK and the superhero IP's.

I'm definitely getting that vibe from the games, especially with characters like Baraka.

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