Why would he pose like he's about to throw a football in a fight?
Where's the ball he's supposed to throw in the first place?
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Video explains why the animation of Mortal Kombat X (and Injustice) looks weird
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
Why would he pose like he's about to throw a football in a fight?
Where's the ball he's supposed to throw in the first place?
BakedTanooki
Member
I have a lot of fun with Injustice 2. It's a good game, full of content, fun fights and nice attention to details.
But yeah, I really can not understand how you would defend the animations.
There is so much wrong with many of them.
It's cool if you say, you just don't care. Or maybe you just don't know what to look for, which is also okay.
But don't claim they are fine. They are clearly not.
But yeah, I really can not understand how you would defend the animations.
There is so much wrong with many of them.
It's cool if you say, you just don't care. Or maybe you just don't know what to look for, which is also okay.
But don't claim they are fine. They are clearly not.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
What's the deal with Bane's stance here. It looks like kind of like Catwoman's.
As the guy stated, seems like the generic "waddle on water" stance everyone has
Finaika
Member
There is nothing nice or small about it lol
Raven isn't in a weird state of constantly leaning forward, and his left arm isn't getting in his right arm's way.
Primethius
Banned
I've been watching a lot of Injustice 2 streams and my god, I cannot get over the disconnect between the absurdly great graphics and presentation vs. how dated and poor the animations look.
SpiceMelange
Member
Robin isn't too bad, but Cyborg have the traditional NRS "6 feet stick way up the ass" syndrome.
They look about as convincing as the men in IJ2, so I can't really find fault there. Catwoman looks kind of weird, but that's mostly because she's got a cowl on and there isn't much hair to frame her face.
Really?
Because you want them to be more anime? I dunno, the women in Injustice 2 look fine.
LordKasual
Banned
Sword Of Doom
Member
They're the same moves but they don't have the elasticity of SF III. They look stiff.
That ken animation I commented on, go look at a modern SF IV and SF V animations and tell me they're "exactly the same"
http://www.dinofarmgames.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/
freethoughtbubble
Member
This is actually a good post illustrating the subtle things NRS gets wrong. Why is cyborg leaning forward with his chin like that? Why is his face turning towards the opponent but his legs are planted facing the screen head on? Why is his fighting stance a quartback stance? Why not make that nod to his past into a taunt or a quick idle animation that plays if left still too long?
In contrast, raven's center of gravity is perfectly stable. His upper and lower body are facing the same direction. His hands are in a cool ninja pose because he's a ninja.
You can actually feel what's wrong/right about these poses by trying them yourself. Just be careful with cyborg's if you have a weak back. Seriously.
Garrett Hawke
Member
lol wat
2nd Half
Credit: XXXCheckmate on Reddit
"Captain Cold:
At first glance Captain Colds pose isnt so bad.
It looks like hes on guard in his secret lair or maybe hes about to wreak havoc in a bank that hes robbing. It is a very comic book-esque for a villain to have. It fits the character but it doesnt fit the scenario of a one-on-one fighting game. In game it looks kind of awkward. The barrel of his gun should at least be pointing in the direction of his opponent, not up at the ceiling. Not to mention this is another pose that looks awful when their back is towards the camera since you cant see anything but their back. If youre going to be too lazy to have all animation leave the character facing forward, at least have the decency to make a characters idle stance be interesting from both sides.
Poison Ivy:
I understand that shes supposed to be seductive but Im not really getting that.
I dont mind characters sacrificing realistic poses for the sake of expressing personality (Mai, B. Jenet),...
...but what exactly is Poison Ivy supposed to be expressing here? Her pose makes her look like an Egyptian hieroglyphic. There is nothing really sexy or inviting about that pose.
Wonder Woman:
She is literally doing everything wrong in this pose.
Her primary method of attacking is placed in a way that makes unnecessarily difficult to retaliate while her other hand is doing nothing when it could at least be close to her face or in a proper position to protect her body. What are you most likely going to be doing when youre crouching in a fighting game? Blocking. Despite the fact that Wonder Woman is crouching, nothing about this pose says defense in the slightest. It looks like her opponent dropper their sword and Wonder Woman is politely picking it back up for them. Now look at Terry.
The position of his hands cover pretty much every option he would encounter if he was crouching and in a fight. Hands are protecting his face but at the same time theyre ready to strike if he needs to."
Credit: XXXCheckmate on Reddit
"Captain Cold:
At first glance Captain Colds pose isnt so bad.
It looks like hes on guard in his secret lair or maybe hes about to wreak havoc in a bank that hes robbing. It is a very comic book-esque for a villain to have. It fits the character but it doesnt fit the scenario of a one-on-one fighting game. In game it looks kind of awkward. The barrel of his gun should at least be pointing in the direction of his opponent, not up at the ceiling. Not to mention this is another pose that looks awful when their back is towards the camera since you cant see anything but their back. If youre going to be too lazy to have all animation leave the character facing forward, at least have the decency to make a characters idle stance be interesting from both sides.
Poison Ivy:
I understand that shes supposed to be seductive but Im not really getting that.
I dont mind characters sacrificing realistic poses for the sake of expressing personality (Mai, B. Jenet),...
...but what exactly is Poison Ivy supposed to be expressing here? Her pose makes her look like an Egyptian hieroglyphic. There is nothing really sexy or inviting about that pose.
Wonder Woman:
She is literally doing everything wrong in this pose.
Her primary method of attacking is placed in a way that makes unnecessarily difficult to retaliate while her other hand is doing nothing when it could at least be close to her face or in a proper position to protect her body. What are you most likely going to be doing when youre crouching in a fighting game? Blocking. Despite the fact that Wonder Woman is crouching, nothing about this pose says defense in the slightest. It looks like her opponent dropper their sword and Wonder Woman is politely picking it back up for them. Now look at Terry.
The position of his hands cover pretty much every option he would encounter if he was crouching and in a fight. Hands are protecting his face but at the same time theyre ready to strike if he needs to."
staticneuron
Member
Flash:
The Flash seems to have the exact opposite problem as every other character mentioned.
He moves way too much. At least NRS attempted to express personality through an idle stance but they failed in animating it a sensible manner. Here, the Flashs bottom half is completely out of rhythm with his top half. His legs move up and down quickly but his arms out of sync with the rest of his movement. Not to mention that his legs are just bouncing up and down. Hes not taking a step or lifting his foot off the ground. Hes just shaking his legs. And what exactly is his right hand doing? It doesnt look like hes prepping or stretching; it just looks like hes moving his hand around for the sake of looking active. We get it. Hes the flash and hes fast. But at least put some rhythm and coherency into his movement.
Two things I would like to point out. As much as injustice 2 makes some odd choices the character complaints are a bit off.
First of all Deadshot is not a fighter. He is an incredible shot. In the DC comics he cant stand up to martial artists.
The flash is actually lifting his heels of the ground. It is hard to see in that gif cause he is on grass but even in the same stage over the cobblestone you would see it. And honestly, the flash doesn't need to be in a proper stance as even evidenced from his moveset, what you see isn't an indicator of his movements during a fight.
Lastly, Cyborg looks like a quarter back during idle.... Yup. That was done on purpose. Knowing his history, hearing firestorm taunts, and the sheer fact that his rush moveset makes him look like a quarterback running towards you before the grapple hammers the point home.
The thing about comparing this game to other martial arts game is that injustice animates as an homage to the characters themselves instead of any real world fighting style.
It animates like the devs (who have no fighting experience) are using themselves for direct reference to the characters.
The animation and poses look like a bunch of normal people trying to pretend to be fighters.
Eh? The animation in SFV is fantastic. While it's true that 3D models in general don't have the exaggerated cartoon-like plasticity of some spritework, that article is comparing SF3 to SF4, which is a far cry from the animation quality in SFV.
Finaika
Member
Poison Ivy:
I understand that shes supposed to be seductive but Im not really getting that.
...but what exactly is Poison Ivy supposed to be expressing here? Her pose makes her look like an Egyptian hieroglyphic. There is nothing really sexy or inviting about that pose.
She is blowing a kiss to her opponent.
Uh, quarterbacks don't play defense and avoid contact as much as possible.
Yeah, unfortunately, NRS hasn't been able to replicate the actual weight behind attacks. Ken's full spin on those kicks is one of the best examples.
What are you talking about? I'm talking about the in-game "animation", why are you talking about the gameplay? The enture thread is about animation. If you were actually trying to say that because no body talked negatively about the in-game anination then that means that there isn't a problem then sorry i would have to disagree with you as the case/issues has already been proven via this thread and then some.
Yeah, his stance looks just like a quarterback... as long as that QB is Blake Bortles.
And why would a QB have a "rush move set" and be "running towards" someone? Even QBs known for their rushing (Cam, Vick, etc) are best served by their elusiveness. Is that an Injustice problem or a comic problem?
GoldandBlue
Member
I'm a DC fan and I'd rather have good animations in these games instead of "oh look Cyborg is sorta in a football pose kinda, neat."
LordKasual
Banned
Eh? The animation in SFV is fantastic. While it's true that 3D models in general don't have the exaggerated cartoon-like plasticity of some spritework, that article is comparing SF3 to SF4, which is a far cry from the animation quality in SFV.
The most impressive thing about SFV's animations is that they finally implemented impact variations to the attacks.
When certain moves connect / or blocked, there's an animation for the opponent absorbing the impact. Ryu's sweep animation is the perfect example of this.
It's the little things that make animation feel great. You can feel the force of the attacks.
I'm a huge fan of SFIII's sprites, but i'm giving the edge to SFV in this situation.
You can feel the force behind attacks in this game in a way that didn't exist in SFIII.
Elasticity, squash and stretch are more difficult to do in 3D but I think the animation team do a fantastic job in translating SF3 to SFV.
Slow motion:
Edit: Jett presents it far better than me lol
Eh? The animation in SFV is fantastic. While it's true that 3D models in general don't have the exaggerated cartoon-like plasticity of some spritework, that article is comparing SF3 to SF4, which is a far cry from the animation quality in SFV.
Daaamn, so slick. Always loved Kens and Ryus animations
How dare you bring common sense to this joke of a thread.
I mean, if you really cared, better stop playing sim racers too, cause that is NOT how a clutch feels/works at all.
Almost any game you apply these comments its gonna look ridiculous because they are fucking videogames.
Except other games do it better so I don't really see your point.
Here we have the "bad animation doesn't exist because videogames!" argument again.
This is really not an attack on Injustice or NRS - I'd pick Mortal Kombat over a ton of Japanese fighters. But it benefits no one pretending animation is not a weak point for these games.
Common sense? More like nonsense.
As for the bolded, the difference here is that we can't physically feel the clutch but we can certainly hear the audio cues. Animation is also (obviously) very crucial to sim racers like GT, Forza and Driveclub as it gives us that sense of power and speed.
Well, no they aren't. There were two obstacles to doing it: the first is that UE3, and probably a few other engines, didn't support nonuniform scaling of character bones (for math reasons we won't get into it made animations compress better with the algorithms they had). Do note that from a tech standpoint it's not because it's more difficult, but that people who designed the tech didn't think it'd be needed because their animation knowledge was poor at best.
The second is an educational failure in that game animators, specifically, often aren't taught about squash and stretch, for whatever reason (A distant cause would be the use and abuse of motion capture, which means you don't have to really know how to animate to produce animations). It's always amusing to see GDC panels that show game animators discovering things that should be animation basics.
Long story short, several critical steps in the history of animation have been about finding out that you're wrong. If you were an animation student saying that you would be mercilessly mocked. Quality animation grounds fantasy in reality so you can believe what you see, and your brain will fire off all kinds of alarm signals otherwise. You can try to give excuses for poor animation but it'll still be poor animation, and there's nothing to lose by adding better foundation to one's work.
Even if superman's an alien from planet krypton, for example, his strength is based on muscle movement, so believability in those movements will lead to a better depiction of Superman. Even though writers have come up with tactile telekinesis to allow him to defy the laws of physics, you'll find out all good depictions of Superman using his strength do depict him as they would a strong man exerting physical effort. This extends to all sorts of superpowers.
staticneuron
Member
And you really think any large dev, have animators animating themselves? They used motion capture. And it doesn't look realistic because it isn't supposed to be realistic.
It is a comic and animated feature problem. Have you guys not seen or read cyborgs many introductions?
The problem here is people seem to forget that both MK and Injustice doesn't have any real martial arts in them (on of the reasons I personally dislike MK) but to go into this expecting realism or comparing to other games that at least try to emulate real martial arts is the thing that is amazing here.
Yes, injustice is guilty of many of the things it is being criticized for but the issue is the expectation you carry when playing the game. I love fighting games. I have very little expectation from NRS in terms of realism. And this is from the very first MK game.
The only joke about the thread is the shitposting like this you and others keep doing amongst the real discussion being had pointing out valid real issues and comparisons with NRS titles and other fighters.
If you think this thread is a joke why the hell do you keep posting in it?
I really need to see some receipts on MK not having any real martial arts in them. Doesn't that series rely alot on kungfu?
yeah let's pretend the Marvel vs series does not exist and that doesn't make the animation in NRS games look like the shit it is too
Again, this isn't about realism, this is about the craft of good animation. It so happens they have things in common, but you shouldn't mistake the problem for another. The problem with NRS games is not that they're unrealistic but that they're poorly animated. Overwatch, for example, is very well animated and can still feature flying robot monks. SF3, the pinnacle of fighting game animation, has a russian rubber mutant (unrealistic) who moves like you would expect him to, with muscles and momentum and a center of gravity (believable). You're trying to find excuses but it wasn't an attack on you or your favorite game, just a blunt but accurate observation that said game is not well animated, offering insights about how to correct it that you would learn in any good animation course.
When your fave superhero is in a movie you'll be unhappy if his acting is shit even when he's supposed to be an alien god slug from planet bob. Well, animation is acting for game characters.
Jaded Alyx
Member
They're certainly not "so stiff" in comparison either.
What the fuck is this..lolCheetah:
Cyborg:
Yeah, though they've still got a lot of margin for improvement they've made a lot of progress (among other things because they dug up some notes from golden age Capcom artists while searching through a warehouse).
Nope, most videogames are not realistic yet their animations aren´t as hideous as the ones in NRS games. The 9 principles of animations where developed by the guys working at Disney and they discovered them when animating Mickey Mouse or Goofy, far from realistic characters. This is not about realism, it´s about complying with those principles who are universally accepted as the basis of animation. Ignoring them is like trying to speak a language without learning grammar.
Human Trashcan
Banned
lol how did no one call out this supreme nonsense? The fighting animations in Injustice 2 certainly are not mocapped because no human moves like that. That's the whole crux of the issue. First you say it's mocapped, literally a sentence later you say it's not realistic because it isn't meant to be. Buddy, if it was mocapped, it would AT LEAST be somewhat realistic.
Yes, animators still work at major studios. Lots of them, in fact. Dear lord, some people are so clueless yet so confident in their nonsense.
staticneuron
Member
For the most part, I didn't really see any animations that looked like a real martial arts style (with the exception of jeet kune do) until after the 15th or 16th game they released in the series.
This series is not my favorite game but that is certainly a response I imagined someone was going to try to pull. I prefer other fighters such as SF, KOF and VF. But the in the case of injustice, the assertion that it is "bad" isn't based off of general animation idea, but in the post I quoted it they were based off of specific expectations for characters. Real fighters pose like "", This is not like a wild cat more like a house cat. The top animation and bottom animation doesn't make sense so on and so forth.
In the case of MK, those are generally bad animations, in the case of Injustice it seems it is an issue with expectation.
Holy Hyperbole batman. When I said animating themselves, I meant literally animating using their own bodies as a reference. I did not say animators did not work at these studios and of course all of the animations cannot be captured because alot of them are outside of the range of normal human movement. But to not clean or use Mocap data on hand (which btw isn't a question, they did have access to mocap animations) to save time it would be purely illogical. Yes, some people are so clueless yet so confident in their nonsense, indeed.
PingPongvonLaserstein
Member
That's really bad. If somebody shopped a baseball bat into Cyborg's hands, it wouldn't look out of place.
plasmawave
Banned
staticneuron
Member
That is def the most noticble thing. Very odd for them not find a solution for that.