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GregLombardi · Oct 18, 2017

aidan said:
Tapped cards in Arena is going to join Urza is Green, Unban SFM, and Is Cryptic Command Balanced? as a regular topic of conversation in these threads, isn't it?

I have warmed to it after playing. However, I still strongly disagree with it. I think its easy in Arena to miss key pieces of info, and I think that the tapping issue does in fact lead to this more often than not. Its a bit of a messy presentation.

I'm not saying the solution is easy...nor that they've done a bad job. At first I thought they had, but I think they've done good follow up work.

Ashodin · Oct 18, 2017

Closed beta info next week's stream. Finally.

charlequin · Oct 18, 2017

Ashodin said:
When we had the novels they allowed the writer to breathe and illustrate the world in words that made everything feel like it belonged.

With the novels we had some random freelance asshole who didn't know anything about the plotting or worldbuilding going on inside the creative team making up stories that had nothing to do with previous stories or the actual contents of the set.

Ashodin said:
Though the story today really REAAAAAAAAAALLY hints at it being a Mirari.

How so?

FreedomFrisbee · Oct 18, 2017

charlequin said:
How so?

"I think it's something that's not supposed to be here," Jace said. "Something introduced to this world."

Stuff does seem to be lining up for a Mirari.

Infinite Stars · Oct 18, 2017

ZealousD said:
Shit.

It could have looked like shit.

Or it could look like Modo, but that would just be repeating what you said.

Ashodin · Oct 18, 2017

charlequin said:
With the novels we had some random freelance asshole who didn't know anything about the plotting or worldbuilding going on inside the creative team making up stories that had nothing to do with previous stories or the actual contents of the set.

How so?

I explicitly posted that to bait you into posting

I WIN

Joe Molotov · Oct 19, 2017

FreedomFrisbee said:
Stuff does seem to be lining up for a Mirari.

Or Mono Green Urza.

OnPoint · Oct 19, 2017

Ashodin said:
I explicitly posted that to bait you into posting

I WIN

Butwhy.gif

Ashodin · Oct 19, 2017

OnPoint said:
Butwhy.gif

Not really, but I did figure that any post about the Weatherlight Saga would draw him out of hiding lol

Even though charlequin has a tendency to post in the thread only to say "ha I'm right!" on something

Attleborotaco · Oct 19, 2017

Need some help cutting cards from my Queen Marchesa EDH deck. Any help is appreciated.

Queen Marchesa

Violet_0 · Oct 19, 2017

can we go back to discussing the current state of Jace's romantic relationships, please

charlequin · Oct 19, 2017

Ashodin said:
Not really, but I did figure that any post about the Weatherlight Saga would draw him out of hiding lol

Even though charlequin has a tendency to post in the thread only to say "ha I'm right!" on something

i definitely don't only post to say i'm right despite being right so often

Ashodin · Oct 19, 2017

charlequin said:
i definitely don't only post to say i'm right despite being right so often

tendency doesn't mean all the time

*rib rib rib*

cuc · Oct 19, 2017

It hurts to be reminded that even in the new digital implementation of Magic, we are still getting Hexproof in place of the beautiful Shroud.

ZealousD · Oct 19, 2017

cuc said:
It hurts to be reminded that even in the new digital implementation of Magic, we are still getting Hexproof in place of the beautiful Shroud.

What does digital implementation have to do with the difference between Hexproof and Shroud?

SigmasonicX · Oct 19, 2017

ZealousD said:
What does digital implementation have to do with the difference between Hexproof and Shroud?

Shroud was replaced because players mistakenly thought they could target their own creatures with spells. Hexproof allows you to do that. I assume cuc means that players will accept shroud more if the interface makes it clear they can't target their own creatures, so it should come back.

Though I'm not convinced shroud is superior as an ability even if you disregard that.

A Serious Man · Oct 19, 2017

Ashodin said:
Chat is making fun of Arena for looking like Hearthstone

What else was it going to look like?

The chat during these streams has been remarkably dumb. A good portion of the community really don't understand what's going on here.

ZealousD · Oct 19, 2017

SigmasonicX said:
Shroud was replaced because players mistakenly thought they could target their own creatures with spells. Hexproof allows you to do that. I assume cuc means that players will accept shroud more if the interface makes it clear they can't target their own creatures, so it should come back.

Ah, well....

Hearthstone has shroud and people try to target their own shroud creatures all the time. I think this is less about paper vs digital and more that people have trouble realizing shroud is a drawback in a lot of cases.

Tunoku · Oct 19, 2017

A Serious Man said:
The chat during these streams has been remarkably dumb. A good portion of the community really don't understand what's going on here.

Also, keep in mind that a bunch of viewers come from the popular HS streamers, so that stuff is to be expected.

ZealousD · Oct 19, 2017

Tunoku said:
Also, keep in mind that a bunch of viewers come from the popular HS streamers, so that stuff is to be expected.

Hearthstone players know what's happening. WotC/Hasbro is trying to compete more directly with Hearthstone.

It's many of the established Magic players who aren't seeing the value in Arena.

A Serious Man · Oct 19, 2017

ZealousD said:
Hearthstone players know what's happening. WotC/Hasbro is trying to compete more directly with Hearthstone.

It's many of the established Magic players who aren't seeing the value in Arena.

I think it's more this. A couple weeks ago the chat basically had a meltdown when they confirmed that the game wouldn't have trading, that's not something HS players would expect. They're a bunch of crusty MTGO vets who don't understand why it needs to be replaced.

bigkrev · Oct 19, 2017

ZealousD said:
Hearthstone players know what's happening. WotC/Hasbro is trying to compete more directly with Hearthstone.

It's many of the established Magic players who aren't seeing the value in Arena.

Directly porting the Hearthstone model- ~$1.50 booster packs, can disenchant cards for 1/5th of their value- really won't work for Magic, which puts out more than 3 times the amount of cards each year that Hearthstone does (HS is moving to 3 120ish card sets a year, Magic is moving to 4 250ish card sets a year), and requires a player to have 4x copies of a card to have a playset, while hearthstone only requires 2x copies (and only 1x of any "mythic").

They need to have a way to let people get 4x of Mythics to build standard decks without needing to spend thousands of dollars each time a new set comes out. Trading might not be the answer, but they need to have SOMETHING

GregLombardi · Oct 19, 2017

A Serious Man said:
I think it's more this. A couple weeks ago the chat basically had a meltdown when they confirmed that the game wouldn't have trading, that's not something HS players would expect. They're a bunch of crusty MTGO vets who don't understand why it needs to be replaced.

I too agree with this sentiment. Magic Arena is a dream for the casual, and its very difficult to say that with a game as complicated as Magic.

It's interesting in that Arena may teach the world more about Magic: The Gathering than pros / old magic players ever have.

A Serious Man · Oct 19, 2017

bigkrev said:
Directly porting the Hearthstone model- ~$1.50 booster packs, can disenchant cards for 1/5th of their value- really won't work for Magic, which puts out more than 3 times the amount of cards each year that Hearthstone does (HS is moving to 3 120ish card sets a year, Magic is moving to 4 250ish card sets a year), and requires a player to have 4x copies of a card to have a playset, while hearthstone only requires 2x copies (and only 1x of any "mythic").

They need to have a way to let people get 4x of Mythics to build standard decks without needing to spend thousands of dollars each time a new set comes out.

They've been cagey on the in-game economy but have hinted that they're doing some new things. I could see them doing things like allowing the player to craft a playset instead of just an individual copy of a card, having flex slots (for example, each deck you create can have 10 cards in it you don't own) or rewarding players with specific cards of their choice for matchmaking victories and drafts.

Justin · Oct 19, 2017

I still think the best way to get people into the game is to make the core sets free and make draft/sealed events of the core sets free as well.

Didn't Duels stop giving duplicates of a given card if you already had a playset of it? That would be a good system to carry over.

bigkrev · Oct 19, 2017

Eternal Weekend starts tomorrow, and holy shit, look at this prize for the Old School Magic side tournament

divisionbyzorro · Oct 19, 2017

Eternal Weekend is my favorite weekend for Magic. I love watching high-level Vintage.

ultron87 · Oct 19, 2017

Justin said:
I still think the best way to get people into the game is to make the core sets free and make draft/sealed events of the core sets free as well.

Didn't Duels stop giving duplicates of a given card if you already had a playset of it? That would be a good system to carry over.

That was out it worked, yeah. I kind of doubt they'll do that though, since that would mean there'd be a very easy to determine max amount of money you could spend to just get everything, and that limits their expected limitless F2P profits.

Santiako · Oct 19, 2017

bigkrev said:
Eternal Weekend starts tomorrow, and holy shit, look at this prize for the Old School Magic side tournament

That is fantastic.

bigkrev · Oct 19, 2017

divisionbyzorro said:
Eternal Weekend is my favorite weekend for Magic. I love watching high-level Vintage.

It's great to watch commentators who don't care what people think, and seeing people who probably only play paper magic a few times a year make lots and lots of mistakes.

Last year, there was a match where a guy played a Chalice for 1, and his opponent used Steady Progress to proliferate an extra counter on it. He then cast multiple 2 drops into his own chalice, missing his own trigger, and Bob Maher on commentary was just loosing his mind more and more each time, calling into question the integrity of the judges when they just gave him multiple warnings.

shrapnelmagnet · Oct 19, 2017

bigkrev said:
Eternal Weekend starts tomorrow, and holy shit, look at this prize for the Old School Magic side tournament

First thought:

GregLombardi said:
It's interesting in that Arena may teach the world more about Magic: The Gathering than pros / old magic players ever have.

For sure, but I'm not sure this is entirely new as a concept if we consider that many people were onboarded through the various Duels of the Planeswalkers games for the past few years. Anecdotally, I know that myself and a friend of mine know how to play "properly" solely due to it

I hope Arena is an order of magnitude more successful than all of those products. I mean, if it full-on sucks or somehow negatively impacts the development of the game, then I guess not? But I don't think that this is going to be case.

Poppy · Oct 19, 2017

ZealousD said:
Ah, well....

Hearthstone has shroud and people try to target their own shroud creatures all the time. I think this is less about paper vs digital and more that people have trouble realizing shroud is a drawback in a lot of cases.

hearthstone is weird because its pseudo shroud, you can still target them with battlecry abilities

hs rules are strange

Angry Grimace · Oct 19, 2017

Violet_0 said:
can we go back to discussing the current state of Jace's romantic relationships, please

I would be vaguely surprised if Jace suddenly gets all his memories back and immediately ditches his waifu.

OnPoint · Oct 19, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
I would be vaguely surprised if Jace suddenly gets all his memories back and immediately ditches his waifu.

Agreed. I think it will add a dynamic of tension but ultimately they will remain on good terms, if not flat out dating. They spent too much time humanizing Vraska (and realigning Jace) to just walk it back.

Familienoberhauptvogel · Oct 19, 2017

they spent too much time having Lili whip jace to not have a love triangle

Poppy · Oct 19, 2017

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
they spent too much time having Lili whip jace to not have a love triangle

im just picturing a card art that shows lili and vraska angrily glaring at each other while jace sheepishly tries to tell everyone to calm down in the background

it is simultaneously horrible and amazing

red13th · Oct 19, 2017

he hooked up with Liliana too didn't he? black magic women are fond of Jace

SigmasonicX · Oct 19, 2017

red13th said:
he hooked up with Liliana too didn't he? black magic women are fond of Jace

Ally colors. See Gideon.

ZealousD · Oct 19, 2017

Poppy said:
im just picturing a card art that shows lili and vraska angrily glaring at each other while jace sheepishly tries to tell everyone to calm down in the background

it is simultaneously horrible and amazing

I betcha it's in the Unstable set with an Archie-like artstyle.

Angry Grimace · Oct 19, 2017

red13th said:
he hooked up with Liliana too didn't he? black magic women are fond of Jace

Several times, and it was off-handedly revealed in the Kaladesh story he'd been hooking up with her on the sly after the Gatewatch formed until Gideon "No Fun Allowed" Jura got upset that Jace was getting laid.

Familienoberhauptvogel · Oct 19, 2017

red13th said:
he hooked up with Liliana too didn't he? black magic women are fond of Jace

She honeypotted him but then dated his alter ego for awhile.

Poppy said:
im just picturing a card art that shows lili and vraska angrily glaring at each other while jace sheepishly tries to tell everyone to calm down in the background

it is simultaneously horrible and amazing

Why not a tug of war between the two holding his arm with their entire body. Might as well go full camp.

OnPoint · Oct 19, 2017

Pirate Shipping is too good so I am not advocating we should change it, but man... I wish we could use The Love Boat in the thread title somehow

DrArchon · Oct 19, 2017

We do Liliana and Vraska have to fight over Jace? WotC's a progressive company. I see no reason why we can't have some polyamory in MTG.

Justin · Oct 19, 2017

This deck is hilarious
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCI9CBy2qH4

Creatures (10)
2 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Reckless Fireweaver
2 Champion of Wits
4 Rampaging Ferocidon

Planeswalkers (3)
3 Saheeli Rai

Spells (8)
2 Fatal Push
4 Opt
2 Censor

Artifacts (13)
4 Dowsing Dagger
4 Prophetic Prism
1 Hierophant's Chalice
4 Panharmonicon

Enchantments (4)
4 Trespasser's Curse

Lands (22)
3 Aether Hub
4 Canyon Slough
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Fetid Pools
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp

charlequin · Oct 19, 2017

ultron87 said:
That was out it worked, yeah. I kind of doubt they'll do that though, since that would mean there'd be a very easy to determine max amount of money you could spend to just get everything, and that limits their expected limitless F2P profits.

You can already effectively do this by just auto-dusting everything. CCGs aren't whale-driven, anyway, they're dolphin-driven so it's not really a big cost to have a ceiling on possible expenditures, especially if you have a second virtual ceiling for "premium" versions of cards.

red13th said:
he hooked up with Liliana too didn't he? black magic women are fond of Jace

everyone who's surprised that jace is into goth girls raise your hand pls

Ashodin · Oct 19, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Several times, and it was off-handedly revealed in the Kaladesh story he'd been hooking up with her on the sly after the Gatewatch formed until Gideon "No Fun Allowed" Jura got upset that Jace was getting laid.

Can't fight monsters if you're having sex

Poppy · Oct 19, 2017

gideon is combat-sexual

Familienoberhauptvogel · Oct 19, 2017

wouldn't surprise me if Gideon made the gatewatch just to keep chandra close, creepy dude.

Justin · Oct 19, 2017

There is a lot going on in this Rosewatta Stone

Ashodin · Oct 19, 2017

We are all born of thick blood sugar

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