-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bungie: "Destiny 2 uses a hybrid of client-server and peer-to-peer technology"
- Thread starter Twilight Gap
- Start date
ethomaz
Banned
They explain why it is not like D1.
"Every activity in Destiny 2 is hosted by one of our servers."
In Destiny every activity was hosted by a player.
ethomaz
Banned
Destiny 1 the host is one of the players.
Destiny 2 the host is a server.
That is basically the difference.
Bungie has a consistent track record of omission, misinformation, and obvious PR spin with their public messaging in Destiny. I don't doubt that their claims here regarding the increased network stability in Destiny 2 will probably be proven true, but I do think it's extremely convenient that this admission is occurring just long enough after the 4v4 global PVP limit announcement to divorce any immediate connection between the two.
ethomaz
Banned
Destiny 2 moved the host to server while Destiny 1 had one player being the host... so that is the difference.
As a player that go back to orbit to change the host for raids that means it won't work with Destiny 2 because the host will be the Bungie's servers.
And the possible lag between host and players probably won't happen anymore.
No. In Destiny 1, it was bad. In Destiny 2, it will be good.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Wait a minute, even patrols?
ethomaz
Banned
Yes.
That is what the BWU said.
BTW in patrol you have one player being the host in Destiny 1... if you are alone of course it will be you... in Destiny 2 the servers will be the host.
Think like you will have always a hidden player being the host and that player is located in Bungie's servers.
NullPointer
Member
So what exactly is the difference from Destiny 1 PvP?
Host migration issues being resolved but everything else staying the same?
I never remember host migration complaints among the litany of woes and expletives my friends would nag on about after subjecting themselves to PvP.
Host migration issues being resolved but everything else staying the same?
I never remember host migration complaints among the litany of woes and expletives my friends would nag on about after subjecting themselves to PvP.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Did Bungie reference the power of the could? I'm pretty sure they did and not a single person freaked out or mocked them for it.
veloxStrix
Banned
So a week? What about the earlier announcement and thread we had about this exact topic only a few days after the event?
I too remember when a bunch of people with no experience whatsoever in networking or even game development laughed about the idea of using cloud computing to offload physics computations.
ethomaz
Banned
Again.
In Destiny 1 PVP (or any other activity) one of the players is choose to be the host of that activity.
In Destiny 2 PVP (or any other activity) the server is the host of that activity.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I'm willing to bet 99 percent of my net worth it won't end up being that simple.
ethomaz
Banned
Because anything using a server hosted on internet is called cloud.
People mocked MS because they tried to sell it like something new, revolutionary and better than it actually is.
It is that simple... if it will work better or not we will need to see but at least go back orbit to change host ended.
PS. I didn't understand your comment very well too
NullPointer
Member
Was host migration a big issue?
I don't think I've ever seen that happen in my time with Destiny, in any activity. Not that I noticed anyway.
The only weirdness I'd see in PvE was super long loads when transitioning areas (when riding a sparrow between two zones). And in PvP lag was my main problem, along with balance issues.
You could see it in PVP if you monitored the coloured bars of players during a particulary laggy match. Some players were taking damage as normal then a few moniutes later they were 'being difficult'. Its becuase the host rotated during the match
Saucycarpdog
Member
Sounds like it will solve the host migration problem, but not the lag problem. You know, the one that causes instances like this.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
Honestly I never had an connection problems when it came to PVE in Destiny. My main problem was PvP and dealing with kids rocking red bars in Trials. That shit needs to be sorted out. If your rocking a red bar then you should be disconnected from the match in PvP imo.
Since OP chose not to include the next question/response in the post text:
Does this mean I'll never see a player warp around the map or shoot me through a wall again?
None of the "three hard problems" mentioned here justify the decision to go with a P2P hybrid over pure dedicated servers; all three can (and have been) solved equally or better by games that use a dedicated server infrastructure. I don't personally care, I'll buy Destiny 2 (maybe even double dip on PS4 and PC) and enjoy it, but the doublespeak in the Bungie messaging along with the readiness of fans to ignore and/or defend it is mildly infuriating.
Does this mean I'll never see a player warp around the map or shoot me through a wall again?
None of the "three hard problems" mentioned here justify the decision to go with a P2P hybrid over pure dedicated servers; all three can (and have been) solved equally or better by games that use a dedicated server infrastructure. I don't personally care, I'll buy Destiny 2 (maybe even double dip on PS4 and PC) and enjoy it, but the doublespeak in the Bungie messaging along with the readiness of fans to ignore and/or defend it is mildly infuriating.
I was completely wrong about the timing on that information release, you're right. I don't think it invalidates my claim that the latest messaging is obfuscating the facts about the benefits of this network infrastructure choice though.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Well this sounds OK, but I guess we won't know until the beta if it's actually a decent solution or the same old P2P just with better PR.
Yet most gamers won't fix their routers and get SQM, your no better.
SQM is a practical real fix with real results and expecting devs to properly do dedicated servers and maintain them for a few years is just unrealistic.
ethomaz
Banned
Well it is a know issue with Destiny that host affect the overall connection of the team.
It is not hard to see people starting the raid alone, back to orbit, changing fireteam leader, etc just to change the host for a better one.
So yes migration of host is a issue because you can be near to kill a boss and the host change to one that lags everything to the point you get fucked up.
In PVP some players get even invincible during the match due host migration.
anothertech
Member
Music to my ears. Will be interesting to see if they really have something substantial in place for those that try to risk it.
This is interesting. So more server side than D1. Wonder how much difference that will make.
ethomaz
Banned
Not the first point.
Game lose responsive based in how is your connection with the dedicated server.
P2P not.
MrBenchmark
Member
yeah have you ever been on patrol and everything is great then all of a sudden you can't kill anything look in your menu and all of a sudden you see someone has joined you and must be on a string and two cups.
of my friends i always have everyone join me since i have the best setup of all my friends.
Twilight Gap
Member
If Bungie was serious about cheaters then they'd ban all the Warlocks.
CarbonFire
Member
I'm so Dizzy, my head is spinning
Like a whirlpool, it never ends....
P2P is ALWAYS a money saving measure. Servers cost money, but they provide a superior, more consistent experience as a result (assuming you're even remotely close to one....which again, costs money to blanket the globe). P2P would be mostly fine for the Co-op portion, but in competitive MP, get outta here.
ethomaz
Banned
Superior God Master Classes can't be banned
It shouldn't be the consumers job to make up for a developer's mistake. Not to mention the vast majority of people don't even know what SQM is.
Stop shilling for a corporation. Stop defending things that actively make games worse.
anothertech
Member
Nah. Hunters banned first for all those Golden Gun through the wall shots!
Exploratory
Banned
The vast majority of the community is into PvP. Or at least the their most hardcore fans. Destiny's viewership on Twitch is entirely based around PvP. And Bungie will always be a PvP company at heart it's in their DNA.
Twilight Gap
Member
Oh ye that's some BS
I can easily concur that line was grade 100% bullshit.
P2P and Dedicated face real latency issues the industry and gamers continue not to give a shit about.
The idea that after a group actually finds out why the internet has severe issues at times say for instance leaving your network accerletation technology on which delays your packets until enough has filled the buffer or activated the technology, people would stop for latency based applications. What's worse is none of you give a fuck that packet aggregation misshapes and bundles your data on top of adding more latency. What do I mean just look at the picture.
I seriously thought the movement was a joke years ago, but as they worked on the linux network stack or networking drivers I was amazed at the result produced. So I ask any gamer who cares about latency and response in fps shooter why would you gimp yourselves leaving shitty technology on that blimps and mishapes your packets then add latency. The minute I turn off all the TSO/GRO related networking tech my packets return back to 1514 or less and stop requiring my router to convert them adding more time on top of what aggregation requires. No this won't make you amazing but if you like a solid feel I can't imagine why people stay stuck in latency hell basically when you can get cheap ass routers, decent firmware and be free of such bs. Anything else is on your ISP or HOPs.
I'm amazed at how resilient the tcp/ip stack is with all the crap we do to it.
Bungie and most companies don't make their ISP use FQ_Codel or Cake so basically you will always face lag until they do so along with most gamers. FQ_Codel is built in to linux yet the problem now is most router are still using older kernels without such fixes or don't even turn the tech on. Outside of a few companies like riot most of the industry (99%) is ignorant and worse resistant that bufferbloat is real despite Van Jacobson discovering this issue in the 80s which lead to tcp/ip stack changes we enjoy now.
electricpirate
Member
Op you buried the most important part here. Physics (this would cover all combat logic, hit detection etc) hosting is moving from p2p to being part of a dedicated server.
That's big! and it will probably address the biggest complaint of d1, invincible ghost dudes. A network programmer could correct me, but that brings it very close to how most dedicated servers handle it.
That's big! and it will probably address the biggest complaint of d1, invincible ghost dudes. A network programmer could correct me, but that brings it very close to how most dedicated servers handle it.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Why peer-to-peer? Are we trying to save money?
Matt: Nope! We've invested heavily in new server infrastructure for Destiny 2, including using cloud servers for gameplay for the first time. We really believe this is the best model for all of Destiny 2's varied cooperative and competitive experiences. Engineering will always involve tradeoffs and cost-benefit analysis, but as a team weve got no regrets about the unique technology weve built for Destiny 2.
They forgot "oh and to save money"
Matt: Nope! We've invested heavily in new server infrastructure for Destiny 2, including using cloud servers for gameplay for the first time. We really believe this is the best model for all of Destiny 2's varied cooperative and competitive experiences. Engineering will always involve tradeoffs and cost-benefit analysis, but as a team weve got no regrets about the unique technology weve built for Destiny 2.
They forgot "oh and to save money"
Orochinagis
Member
So the US will get an upper hand against non us players.
PVP would be a nightmare
PVP would be a nightmare
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Search your feelings. You know why that is.
Yep! Linked earlier, but..
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1341196
For Honor Devs said:
Spoiler. It was horrible.