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Supporting abusive work environments - Why I wont be buying Red Dead 2
- Thread starter Raging Spaniard
- Start date
Liquidsnakeiv
Banned
I am going to buy it bro, but hey I respect your stance on things.
So you're just going to bypass all the really despicable shit and focus in on something made by highly educated, mid-to-high 5 figure to low-to-mid six figure guys in San Diego? Seems really weird to wake up one day and feel compelled to boycott something like U.S. video games (a small, $30 billion dollar industry) while buying electronics and clothing manufactured from China/Honduras/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/etc., eating food processed by the industrial food complex, filling up your car with oil that was drilled in the oil sands or via earthquake-causing hydraulic fracturing, etc. etc.
IrishNinja
Member
the light apologists here are always kinda sad to see - this is another good argument for borrowing/renting or simply waiting a week (if that) and buying from GAF's own B/S/T thread
AtomskEater
Member
(Most) Companies don't care about anything but raking in more and more profits. With unions in most industries done for and video games in particular having a constant renewable supply of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed recent CS graduates, there's little to get in the way of them demanding unreasonable working hours and churning people as they become disillusioned or worn out.
I used to want to go into the games industry, but if I ever took steps to make that happen it'd likely be for a smaller company I do a hell of a lot of research on, or in an indie capacity. The amount of people handwaving this away are kind of the problem, this shouldn't be normal or expected and is what happens when you place the interests of shareholders and corporations over a worker's ability to so much as enjoy a decent work/life balance.
It might seem weird to you, but it's a start. Eating less meat, volunteering at animal shelters, recycling, etc are all admirable things to do, but I'm not going to knock someone for choosing to do one over the other, regardless of how small their effort might seem. Otherwise we'd be sitting here playing the "who has it worse" game all day.
Is that relevant to the thread? No, it's not. They used the wrong person for an anology, so that means their statment is completey invalid, right?
You see this? This is whataboutism at it's finest.
By your arguement, we should never complain about everything because the entire world has problems. Everything is awful, life is terrible, we're all gonna die anyway. Fuck life, right?
Going to buy 2 copies so the devs efforts don't go to waste.
Would be terrible to work like that then nobody buys your product and you lose your job.
Not saying it's going to happen to RS but u get the idea. Id also like to think most devs like to create worlds and get joy out of millions of people playing their game.
Would be terrible to work like that then nobody buys your product and you lose your job.
Not saying it's going to happen to RS but u get the idea. Id also like to think most devs like to create worlds and get joy out of millions of people playing their game.
Art Vandilay
Member
I'd take my chances if my job was so shitty that I was going through a divorce, had no social life, was depressed, losing my hair, etc. I definitely agree that skills don't always transfer elsewhere, but if your working conditions are that miserable then it's time to consider a different career path.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
It's especially ridiculous for anyone that's worked in a non-videogame specialist dev shop. I wanted to be involved in the videogames industry when I was a kid, but I did some journo work experience at PC Zone when I was 16. I met one of the devs of blacksite area 51 and he told me to stay the fuck away. I did.
NormalFish
Banned
joecanada
Member
Oil sands ? They don't abuse their workers on a widespread basis . Clothes ? Clothes are easy to find made everywhere in the world . Why are you trying to choose ops ethical stance for him ? Maybe they are also environmentalist not that it should matter
jonscrambler
Member
sure it is, if you hate the job so much find another job, these people are not in low skill minimum wage jobs
Clockwork5
Member
I don't know. This thread is kinda silly considering the labor conditions that we all support as someone who plays games at all.
IISANDERII
Member
Rockstar should be named Mother Theresa Studios.
Going back to boycotts, I didn't even buy GTA5👊
besthijacker
Banned
Doesn't matter. Day 1 purchase.
It's a figure of speech, seriously. And last time I checked she did receive sainthood, as well as the Nobel Peace Prize
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Doesn't matter. They probably don't work there anymore anyway given how companies like that tend to operate once a product ships.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I'll bet the people bringing up electronics manufacturing think that they're really clever.
Meanwhile, there are game studios that aren't horrible that you could give your money to instead of RS.
Meanwhile, there are game studios that aren't horrible that you could give your money to instead of RS.
This is an important point to bring up: why is Rockstar the only one that has pushed you to the edge OP and not any of the other countless companies not providing exemplary working conditions for their employees?
GinoFelino
Member
Well, shit, OP.
On the one hand, you're totally right.
On the other hand, I know that, for example, most of my clothes are made under considerably worse conditions. The people at Rockstar are relatively well off, have much more of a choice in the matter and have a great resume as a result.
On the one hand, you're totally right.
On the other hand, I know that, for example, most of my clothes are made under considerably worse conditions. The people at Rockstar are relatively well off, have much more of a choice in the matter and have a great resume as a result.
60EffPeeEss
Member
Non-compete clauses exist. They state you can't look for work elsewhere while employed by the company, and being employed by a similar company after leaving them can mean legal action.
Plus, what's the odds of just landing in another job immediately? Tech sector everywhere is swarming with people. Its not as easy as the click of two fingers.
Here For The Free Feed
Member
how many of you typed in a few other companies to read reviews?
sounds like nintendo of america is a great place to work
sounds like nintendo of america is a great place to work
AtomicShroom
Member
Except that based on what we know of the AAA gaming industry, including horror stories surrounding the development of L.A. Noire, including the whole EA spouse ordeal, etc, none of what's written on there seems unbelievable or a far stretch in any way. I have zero reason to doubt it.
Clockwork5
Member
Read Op's post -
So.. uh.. that is just the way work is. I worked in the financial sector and you were expected to work over 60 hours a week. Also just work in general.. if you don;t like it, find a new job... don;t try to make your job change to mold to you. It is at will.
Generally, the grindier jobs have perks(high income, status, free everything) and probably Rockstar is no different. the least of which as a network/resume/experience builder for when you get older and transition to your own studio or a more lax one.
If I can't pay my bills on 8 dollars and hour.. minimum wage doesn't need to change.. I need to get a better paying job and do whatever it takes to get that. If Rockstar is too hard/unfair perceived abusive - I need to find a different job. I would love my financial sector 6 figure income BUT I am not willing to work the 60-70 hours a week with no vacations and have the stress and the yelling and screaming anymore. Choices.. we've got em. They make great games in that environment. No one is a prisoner there
So.. uh.. that is just the way work is. I worked in the financial sector and you were expected to work over 60 hours a week. Also just work in general.. if you don;t like it, find a new job... don;t try to make your job change to mold to you. It is at will.
Generally, the grindier jobs have perks(high income, status, free everything) and probably Rockstar is no different. the least of which as a network/resume/experience builder for when you get older and transition to your own studio or a more lax one.
If I can't pay my bills on 8 dollars and hour.. minimum wage doesn't need to change.. I need to get a better paying job and do whatever it takes to get that. If Rockstar is too hard/unfair perceived abusive - I need to find a different job. I would love my financial sector 6 figure income BUT I am not willing to work the 60-70 hours a week with no vacations and have the stress and the yelling and screaming anymore. Choices.. we've got em. They make great games in that environment. No one is a prisoner there
NormalFish
Banned
Criticism of Mother Teresa is so widely discussed it has its own wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa
PedroLumpy
Member
Thumbs up OP. Often all you can do is raise awareness, and vote with your wallet.
Reptars Revenge
Member
For the record Non-compete clauses are unenforceable in California except under exceptional circumstances. That state knows whats up.
It's hard as at some point the whip has to be cracked towards deadline or things amble.
My current company is great, laidback and out of the various film places it is a genuine great place to work... but that also comes with the understanding that this is work and at some point things will get a bit stressful as we get towards final deliveries.
Yeah i'm out. Friendly reminder, if you don't give a shit about the developers of video games than you are NEVER allowed to complain about games getting delayed, games being released in a buggy state or use the term "Lazy devs" because if you do, you're just a blissfully ignorant hypocrite that wants to have their cake and eat it.
But hey, at least you get Red Dead 2 and you'll buy all the DLC, collectors editions and microtransactions that come with it, right?
But hey, at least you get Red Dead 2 and you'll buy all the DLC, collectors editions and microtransactions that come with it, right?
Deckard Chapel
Banned
I know it is. I only brought it up because you seemed to have a problem with people criticizing her.
Anyway back on topic, I can see where OP is coming from and it certainly makes me rethink my purchase.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I feel very conflicted.
On one hand, I want to buy the game and for it to be successful, so when these poor employees leave their shithole jobs they can at least put "Red Dead Redemption 2 (10+ million sold)" on their cover letter and impress potential employers.
On the other hand, I want Take 2 Interactive/Rockstar to suffer a bit for promoting this sort of work environment.
Guess I'll buy it when it hits 29.99
On one hand, I want to buy the game and for it to be successful, so when these poor employees leave their shithole jobs they can at least put "Red Dead Redemption 2 (10+ million sold)" on their cover letter and impress potential employers.
On the other hand, I want Take 2 Interactive/Rockstar to suffer a bit for promoting this sort of work environment.
Guess I'll buy it when it hits 29.99
Clockwork5
Member
Much like those who ignore the fact that people died making your gaming rig, while finger wagging at R* over mandatory overtime.
CalamityPixel
Member
That's very fair, OP.
I've heard all types of shit fromy my colleagues. There are stories I would love to tell on GAF, the type of shit thats happened at studios over the past few decades would upset you all.
There needs to be a union now. Some of the work ethics would not swing in over industries.
I've heard all types of shit fromy my colleagues. There are stories I would love to tell on GAF, the type of shit thats happened at studios over the past few decades would upset you all.
There needs to be a union now. Some of the work ethics would not swing in over industries.
Keep pedalling that shit argument why don't you? I'm sure we understood the shitty point the million other times it was mentioned. Make all the excuses you want and go "Oh yeah, but what about THIS?", I'm sure your cynical "Everything sucks life is terrible" attitude will get you far.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
We can talk about it in private but Id prefer this thread to be more about the topic, which is to further raise awareness that theres a lot more companies making AAA games with horrible business practices that shouldnt stand. Theres a fair amount of cynicism in this thread, but it seems like several people didnt know, so at least theres that.
As for broadening the subject to other industries, hell yes its problematic, but Id like to discuss this topic at hand right now.
NormalFish
Banned
Why can you not both buy products from a corporation and criticize that and other corporations? Trying to shut down criticism by saying those people are somehow disingenuous because they've bought products from companies that also have immoral practices is ludicrous.
READ THIS POST
Talk about what OP wants to talk about and stop bringing up shit that isn't relevant to the topic as a lazy excuse to deflect the arguement
Now, stop and consider the fact that this isn't a problem exclusive to the games industry. This is a problem that exists at a lot of work places and in virtually all economies. And that's just the developed world. I don't even wanna begin to imagine what it's like in the third world sweat shops.
Almost as if we live in a capitalist nightmare
DerekOfTheDykes
Member
The joke is on you, I spend 6 days out of the week running around naked in the woods and only eating renewable plant life and carrion, so by the metrics of this thread I am the only one here who is ever allowed to complain about exploitative work practices ever
I don't even own this computer, I just steal strangers' smartphones off them to make posts before returning them
It's almost like none of you even actually care about the world, maaaaaaaaan
I don't even own this computer, I just steal strangers' smartphones off them to make posts before returning them
It's almost like none of you even actually care about the world, maaaaaaaaan
People aren't required to take vocal principled stands and boycott every single exploitative industry in order to speak out about specific practices and examples, especially when the OP goes out of his way to explain that he isn't judging you for disagreeing with him
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Concern trolling is honesty now?