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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

TCKaos

Member
So the new BR just shoots slower and has some spread? I mean, I wasn't a fan of getting cross mapped all the time in btb, so I guess I can get behind this?

It would make me want to play btb more, but I have no idea what effect it would have on more competitive play (other than it would be bad based on what I've read here)

Well, the issue with competitive viability is that it makes the weapon inherently less reliable by making it less consistent and reliable, which isn't what you want out of a weapon that is supposed to be consistent and reliable, in a sandbox that thrives on consistent reliability of its elements (which maximizes player expression).

You know how you could get this result in big team?

FUCKING MAGNUM STARTS.

I'd love if someone at 343 would address the impetus and reasoning behind the actual changes being made rather than being aggressively vague. This is a sandbox breaking mechanics alteration that needs to be justified.
 

Cranster

Banned
I'm surprised how the pro teams weren't paid. More than likely though it's not an issue caused by 343i though. Probably either something on Microsoft's or HCS's part.
 

TCKaos

Member
I'm surprised how the pro teams weren't paid. More than likely though it's not an issue caused by 343i though. Probably either something on Microsoft's or HCS's part.

I have it on good faith from a friend that works for another part of Microsoft that teams are generally autonomous, and he speculates that the vast majority of 343's problems are their own.
 

E92 M3

Member
Everyone knew they wouldn't get the money... was supposed to be mix of pro and orgs with 343 taking a cut. Seems 343 took all the cut instead.

A lot of tournament money is still missing as well. 343 is a disorganized mess - that's why Halo 6 is taking so long to come out and that's why the Glassdoor reviews are so poor.
 

Finaj

Member
A lot of tournament money is still missing as well. 343 is a disorganized mess - that's why Halo 6 is taking so long to come out and that's why the Glassdoor reviews are so poor.

Really? I thought 3 years was the normal amount of development time for Halo titles.
 

Juan

Member
A lot of tournament money is still missing as well. 343 is a disorganized mess - that's why Halo 6 is taking so long to come out and that's why the Glassdoor reviews are so poor.

Glad someone else than me read the Glassdoor reviews haha.

But even if I'm sure 343's management isn't top notch from all the inside feedback we can gather, I'm still hearing great stuff from the inside, and it's getting better (apparently) each day, so from a development perspective, they have the benefit of the doubt.

And they are also reworking much of their workflow and tools, and this take a lot of time and care. It will be for the better, even if we may not like what they do with they improved capacities.

Oh btw, I heard this is the last week to enjoy the tuning updated playlist? Is that true?

Because this update definitely changed the game for me, for the better, to the point that I can genuinely decide to start Halo 5 for a few games before moving out with friends, where before, this would have been the last game I would have think of for a short enjoyment.
 

E92 M3

Member
No indication it's not coming next year either. And even if it was, so what? Taking more time on a game to get it right isn't a bad thing.

Or it could be that the game is having development problems. Either way, as I always said, H6 is their last chance to get Halo right.

Glad someone else than me read the Glassdoor reviews haha.

But even if I'm sure 343's management isn't top notch from all the inside feedback we can gather, I'm still hearing great stuff from the inside, and it's getting better (apparently) each day, so from a development perspective, they have the benefit of the doubt.

And they are also reworking much of their workflow and tools, and this take a lot of time and care. It will be for the better, even if we may not like what they do with they improved capacities.

Oh btw, I heard this is the last week to enjoy the tuning updated playlist? Is that true?

Because this update definitely changed the game for me, for the better, to the point that I can genuinely decide to start Halo 5 for a few games before moving out with friends, where before, this would have been the last game I would have think of for a short enjoyment.

If the directors are bad, it doesn't matter how good the actual talent is - and I'm sure they have talented people there.

Also, I don't know how you can enjoy RNG spread.
 
Glad someone else than me read the Glassdoor reviews haha.

But even if I'm sure 343's management isn't top notch from all the inside feedback we can gather, I'm still hearing great stuff from the inside, and it's getting better (apparently) each day, so from a development perspective, they have the benefit of the doubt.

And they are also reworking much of their workflow and tools, and this take a lot of time and care. It will be for the better, even if we may not like what they do with they improved capacities.

Oh btw, I heard this is the last week to enjoy the tuning updated playlist? Is that true?

Because this update definitely changed the game for me, for the better, to the point that I can genuinely decide to start Halo 5 for a few games before moving out with friends, where before, this would have been the last game I would have think of for a short enjoyment.

I dont understand though, 343 have been around for how long now, 2007? How is a little "organization" still this complicated after a decade? Events still often feel unprepared, the games support is either great or non-existent... how difficult is it to be consistent... This is still Microsoft yes? That company with all the money in the world? I simply cannot comprehend how its still this difficult to get some consistency.
 

jem0208

Member
Yeah I think I'm done with this tuning playlist until they remove the spread.

I didn't realize how bad it was until I went and played a match on the HCS playlist.

Pistol only starts >>>> Tuned BR starts > untuned BR starts
 

Masterz1337

Neo Member
Definitely!


I think this balance makes the game more casual friendly, despite making it more random, but that's something I like since, again, it's slowing down the gameplay.

They even changed the recoil for the gunfighter magnum, so it's still a good weapon, for not the perfect one. So far, I'm loving all the changes (except for the DMR).

The gunfighter however isn't really the gunfighter anymore, its a new custom variant. Unlike the previous one, this one has the original magnum smart scope, as well as extended mag. This is some sort of in between, which really should be its own name but it's quite different than the standard one.

I too agree regardless of what they've done, the slower pace is beneficial to game as a whole. As I stated earlier, I think the randomness doesn't matter in my experience, as long as you are in RRR.

Also looking forward to your review you mentioned earlier :).
 
This BR is ass compared to the previous one lol, but I still kind of like it. What's wrong with me.. My 2007 self would've hated this thing!

Someone slap me.

EDIT:
What's next...loving the radar...where does it end.

:)

:eek:

I like the SA radar............. Ozzy, what's happening to me..
But really, it's because I keep an open mind for the greater good, just like op_ivy's son!
 
weapon tuning playlist is atrocious.

fucking BR starts in team arena?

*hint - i've switched to strictly playing slayer playlist until they fix this shit.

and... wow, i'm an easy Diamond / often Onyx player apparently!

[seriously, vanilla magnum / AR starts on TA was fucking perfect - wherefore dost thou fuck with perfection?]
 

jem0208

Member
This BR is ass compared to the previous one lol, but I still kind of like it. What's wrong with me.. My 2007 self would've hated this thing!

Someone slap me.
The new BR is random and inconsistent but it also requires a modicum of skill to aim. It's far more interesting to use in close to mid range than the previous BR.

It's just when you get out of the RRR that it gets quite annoying.
 

Trup1aya

Member
The new BR is random and inconsistent but it also requires a modicum of skill to aim. It's far more interesting to use in close to mid range than the previous BR.

It's just when you get out of the RRR that it gets quite annoying.

It it's inconsistent within RRR as well.
 

Trup1aya

Member
With how often players get dropped or leave from teams to join up another org I would have thought it would be troublesome to have specific players get a direct cut of skin sales.

Yeah that never made sense.

I guess Orgs could have decided to cut bonus checks, but I doubt players were ever entitled to a portion of the earnings and it certainly wasn't going to come from 343 to players.
 

Cranster

Banned
Actually, Tashi doesn't know what he's talking about because Ogre 2 said EG was never paid to begin with.
343i/Microsoft more than likely pays the organizations quarterly. Either EG is not communicating to their players or Ogte 2 is just starting shit.

And Snakebite said he still didn't get the money from UMG.
It's up to the organization to pay them. Tashi literally stated this.

343 has a SERIOUS problem with leadership, and until its changed, nothing will improve.
Plenty has improved in regards to Halo the past couple years.

I want to see Halo be a triple AAA franchise again.
By definition Halo still is a triple AAA franchise.
 

Madness

Member
343i/Microsoft more than likely pays the organizations quarterly. Either EG is not communicating to their players or Ogte 2 is just starting shit.

Or like almost every player has said, 343 has not given them or their orgs a cut of the money as promised. You actually think Ogre2, Frosty, Snakebite are straight up lying?

It's up to the organization to pay them. Tashi literally stated this.

UMG is the tournament organizer 343 paid and hired to run the event. They are not a team Org but a TO. 343 should have boots to asses to ensure players from that event are paid.

Plenty has improved in regards to Halo the past couple years.

polishing a turd still leaves it a turd at the end of the day. Is it beter than the H4 competitive scene? Yes. Is it still worse than the CE, 2, 3 and even short time MLG reach scene? I'd say no.

By definition Halo still is a triple AAA franchise.

By definition sure, but I wouldn't put Halo as world class or genre leader in anything. They are pretty much an also-ran follower at this point. Game didn't need ADS but they thought by adding it they'll get some CoD guys they never got etc. It is just continuing off of saps like me who can't stop with the series or guys like Jem who feel every new thing and iteration is the greatest thing since sliced bread ;)
 

Trup1aya

Member
It is but I find the inconsistency isn't significant enough to be that annoying at closer range.

To each his own, but not getting this opening kill would annoy me every time.

https://youtu.be/gs1u5MtR5gI

Inconsistency just isn't fun. especially when you've formed habits around guns working reliably. Nothing like turning away from what should have been an easy kill because you KNOW you earned the headshot medal, only to get offed by the player that should have died.

That's never insignificant to me.
 

Akai__

Member
It's 2017 and some can t help but bring up halo 5's faux-ADS

The whole reason that fake ADS exists in Halo nowadays, is because people are used to it from other games. Just like Sprint, which only exists, because "in 2015 Sprint is a staple for the modern FPS gamer. Leaving it out of Halo 5 would have been ignoring a huge portion of the gaming demographics expectations" (quote from Halo 5's GDC talk). You can literally replace Sprint with ADS in that sentence and it still would hold true for 343i.

Funnily enough, the same demographic doesn't actually play Halo 5 anymore.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Sprint literally changes the gameplay. Significantly. Feel free to complain about it if you don't like HOW it changes it. Faux-ADS is visual. People complaining about it are literally only doing it because "it copies cod" or because they think (incorrectly) that it alters halo's shoot from the hip gameplay. Meh
 
I still prefer classic scope over smart scope, there are negatives to smart scope especially with automatics. That being said, it's not nearly as impactful as sprint. If I only had the option to remove one from Halo it'd be sprint.

Please remove sprint

I think Akai is correct though, the people those features cater to are no longer playing Halo. Make a Halo game for Halo fans, stop chasing genre trends.
 

Akai__

Member
Sprint literally changes the gameplay. Significantly. Feel free to complain about it if you don't like HOW it changes it. Faux-ADS is visual. People complaining about it are literally only doing it because "it copies cod" or because they think (incorrectly) that it alters halo's shoot from the hip gameplay. Meh

Yeah, SmartScope/ADS doesn't have remotely the same impact as Sprint, and comparing the two is kind of ridiculous.

Who said anything about the impact that it had on gameplay? I talked about how it is only added to please a certain demographic.

But since you want to go that route... How about all of the automatic weapons that didn't have zoom in previous installments? Does it not have an impact on those weapons? Am I reading all of the automatic weapon complaints wrong? Because, since launch I have the impression that people strongly dislike them and that it actually changed the gameplay a lot.
 

Trup1aya

Member
ADS on autos do effect the game because it tightens the spread.

If it simply acted like binoculars from the old halo games, except they didnt zoom out when firing, i don't think people would've had any issue.
 
I still prefer classic scope over smart scope, there are negatives to smart scope especially with automatics. That being said, it's not nearly as impactful as sprint. If I only had the option to remove one from Halo it'd be sprint.

Please remove sprint

I think Akai is correct though, the people those features cater to are no longer playing Halo. Make a Halo game for Halo fans, stop chasing genre trends.
You think this would be a simple enough concept, but the last time a semi-traditional halo game was made was in 2007 - 10 years ago... I say semi-traditional, because halo 3 had too many things I didn't like about it. The weapon sandbox was awful - the pistol neutered, the BR spread a nightmare. It also made vehicles the focus of matchmaking which I hated. Still, at least it was Halo.

also i agree with removing sprint; just get it out of there #NotMyHalo #MakeHaloGreatAgain
 
Who said anything about the impact that it had on gameplay? I talked about how it is only added to please a certain demographic.

But since you want to go that route... How about all of the automatic weapons that didn't have zoom in previous installments? Does it not have an impact on those weapons? Am I reading all of the automatic weapon complaints wrong? Because, since launch I have the impression that people strongly dislike them and that it actually changed the gameplay a lot.

The problem with auto balancing was low TTK at short ranges, NOT issues introduced by tightened spread at long ones; descope always made them effectively toothless.
 

Juan

Member
Or it could be that the game is having development problems. Either way, as I always said, H6 is their last chance to get Halo right.



If the directors are bad, it doesn't matter how good the actual talent is - and I'm sure they have talented people there.

Also, I don't know how you can enjoy RNG spread.

I don't like RNG spread as much as I like the effect it has on the pacing, aka slowing down the gameplay, and that was, for me, a requirement to appreciate Halo 5, and allowing one player to make a mistake.

And as I already stated, I'm now more willing to start a game on Halo 5 than I've ever been since 2 years, thanks to this update.

But I clearly understand this is not something everyone would like, ever since Halo 5 always had consistent and precise weapons, and people enjoying the game got used to this for 2 years, and now, this is somehow a slap in their face.

The gunfighter however isn't really the gunfighter anymore, its a new custom variant. Unlike the previous one, this one has the original magnum smart scope, as well as extended mag. This is some sort of in between, which really should be its own name but it's quite different than the standard one.

I too agree regardless of what they've done, the slower pace is beneficial to game as a whole. As I stated earlier, I think the randomness doesn't matter in my experience, as long as you are in RRR.

Also looking forward to your review you mentioned earlier :).

Oh you're right, I didn't even notice the gunfighter magnum was an heavily modified version of the base gunfighter magnum. It has more ammo, and the magnum's smart scope, something I didn't notice at all since I don't zoom/ads with the magnum (I don't see how zooming with this poor zoom would help me haha).

I agree randomness doesn't really matter at close range, and even if it did, I'm more willing to accept randomness than feeling bad because the game doesn't allow a player to make a mistake.

And I still need to replay Two Betrayals and The Maw to finalize my point haha. But I will, as I'm working myself on a PvE experience on CE, there is much to cover and learn about your work on SPV3.

Btw, are you progressing well on your ODST standalone?

Who said anything about the impact that it had on gameplay? I talked about how it is only added to please a certain demographic.

But since you want to go that route... How about all of the automatic weapons that didn't have zoom in previous installments? Does it not have an impact on those weapons? Am I reading all of the automatic weapon complaints wrong? Because, since launch I have the impression that people strongly dislike them and that it actually changed the gameplay a lot.

Akai__ clearly stated (fake)ADS was added as a visual pleasing option to charm a certain demographic, but he is also right when saying it changed the way automatic were used in the game.

I think that during the Halo 4 OT era, I stated multiple time that 343 would never add ADS as it can be used in other games like CoD or Battlefield, but if they did, it would just be a aesthetic add-on since zoom and ads are somehow the same thing, as long as it doesn't change the player movement speed.

Now, I don't know if I was true or false, as ADS didn't really change behaviors for precision weapons, but it did on automatics, but I'm not sure we could say it impacted the game as much as sprint did, and like Fata1moose, if I had to choose between ADS and Sprint, I would clearly remove Sprint and keep ADS.

But as for myself, I don't use ADS on Halo 5, maybe BR, but I'm only relying on zoom for the sniper, so I can't comment on this.

Now, I don't really know what is the demographic population looking for a Halo games. Players changed a lot, and I see a lot of people asking for Sprint and ADS despite the bad thing they bring with them. But with DOOM, I still think keeping a classic gameplay wouldn't hurt Halo, but Halo won't be the top dog anymore, having classic gameplay or not.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Random spread is unnecessary for slowing pacing. That's accomplished by reducing aim assist and RRR. They also slowed the burst rate, heightening the importance of tracking the opponent. These changes increases average kill times by making mistakes more likely- which slows pacing.

Random spread doesnt increase the likelihood of mistakes. It penalizes people who DON'T make a mistake by randomly discounting their aim. It also occasionally rewards people who's aim is off. This just makes the gunplay feel inconsistent.

If they want more mistakes, just make the gun harder. Dont artificially simulate mistakes when someone's shot is true.
 

Juan

Member
We aren't talking about the same thing, since you're talking about making mistakes, where I talk about allowing and forgiving mistakes.
 

Welfare

Member
Is there actually any evidence for bad management over at 343 to necessitate a delay to 2019? Don't see how they can ship Halo 4 and 5 on 3 year dev cycles while dealing with other projects but suddenly because we want to shit on the company they can't ship Halo 6 on time.

The hyperbole regarding Halo in this thread is hilarious.
 

E92 M3

Member
Is there actually any evidence for bad management over at 343 to necessitate a delay to 2019? Don't see how they can ship Halo 4 and 5 on 3 year dev cycles while dealing with other projects but suddenly because we want to shit on the company they can't ship Halo 6 on time.

The hyperbole regarding Halo in this thread is hilarious.

I don't think there is any hyperbole. Halo is in a very poor position comparatively speaking - especially for fans of competitive Halo. ESL has been the worst thing that happened to HCS. Recently Gfinity put on an event in the UK and it was 100x better than anything we ever got in America with ESL.

In terms of evidence, we only have the games themselves (Halo 4 lol, MCC (broken trash), and Halo 5 (serviceable shooter) and the glassdoor reviews. 343 needs to stop chasing trends and make Halo the trend.
 

Juan

Member
Halo will never be the trend once again (and that's okay).

Unless they change the formula, but it would not be Halo anymore.
 

Madness

Member
Sprint literally changes the gameplay. Significantly. Feel free to complain about it if you don't like HOW it changes it. Faux-ADS is visual. People complaining about it are literally only doing it because "it copies cod" or because they think (incorrectly) that it alters halo's shoot from the hip gameplay. Meh

You think the faux-ADS hasn't affected how some weapons functions, particularly autos? What does 'IT'S CURRENT YEAR' have to do with anything? The other games that used ADS went for realism and built their gameplay around it. Halo only added it to cater to a fanbase that didn't buy/play/care about the game. I am not complaining because it copies CoD or that it altered shoot from the hip gameplay. That is words literally added by you. I mentioned it as part of 343 chasing the pack desperately trying to steal other shooter fanbase or trying to pretend adding it made it any more modern.

And yes, with hover, certain weapons, and their 'smart scope' it has affected hip shooting whether you choose to believe it or not.
 
Halo will never be the trend once again (and that's okay).

Unless they change the formula, but it would not be Halo anymore.

Not true, Destiny2 feels a lot like halo when i play it. The firefights, the shooting, its all halo. They just refuse to change the formula and even if they did, im not convinced they can make the game "feel" like halo did when Bungie did it. D2 is more halo in terms of gameplay to me then Halo 4 or 5 were. The gameplay clearly works or D2 wouldnt be popular. The problem is the delivery of it. And tbh, the SP gameplay in 4 and 5 isnt quite as tight as previous halos were.

Edit: The firefights just arent as fun. The 30 seconds of fun is completely gone and a lot of that is due to the promethans.
 

jem0208

Member
Not true, Destiny2 feels a lot like halo when i play it. The firefights, the shooting, its all halo. They just refuse to change the formula and even if they did, im not convinced they can make the game "feel" like halo did when Bungie did it. D2 is more halo in terms of gameplay to me then Halo 4 or 5 were. The gameplay clearly works or D2 wouldnt be popular. The problem is the delivery of it. And tbh, the SP gameplay in 4 and 5 isnt quite as tight as previous halos were.

Edit: The firefights just arent as fun. The 30 seconds of fun is completely gone and a lot of that is due to the promethans.
uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.gif
 

Juan

Member
Not true, Destiny2 feels a lot like halo when i play it. The firefights, the shooting, its all halo. They just refuse to change the formula and even if they did, im not convinced they can make the game "feel" like halo did when Bungie did it. D2 is more halo in terms of gameplay to me then Halo 4 or 5 were. The gameplay clearly works or D2 wouldnt be popular. The problem is the delivery of it. And tbh, the SP gameplay in 4 and 5 isnt quite as tight as previous halos were.

Edit: The firefights just arent as fun. The 30 seconds of fun is completely gone and a lot of that is due to the promethans.

ZZb3pt9.gif


I would agree the shooting in Destiny feels as good as Halo, if not better, despite having to use ADS, which is clearly a loss since Bungie proved their FPS didn't need to rest on this mechanic, and as shooting is the base mechanic, everything feel really good within Destiny loop.

But for the rest, nah, sorry, (Bungie's) Halo is far ahead above Destiny.

Destiny AI may be one of the poorest I ever had the displeasure to encounter on a game, and I never felt challenged by my surroundings in Destiny, which makes the game pretty boring to me. Yesterday, I played Keyes on Halo CE, with a buddy, and it hits my hard that Destiny will never brings me as much fun as Halo on the long run.

Bungie clearly kept the good feeling formula they had with Halo when making Destiny, and the philosophy behind 30 seconds of fun, something missing from moderns Halo, I agree, and I also agree Prometheans are killing the vibe.
 
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