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Oppo · May 3, 2012

itsgreen said:
This is ridiculous smart... Next-gen console 199 with 15$ subscription for 2 years...

I applaud the guy who made this happen

WrikaWrek said:
Very very, VERY smart.

We've seen this work before with mobile communications companies.

Truth101 said:
This is actually a pretty genius move.

It is pretty smart. It's also disgusting.

I find it weird that people are applauding this move. It's one thing to admire a clever business move; it's another to actually support such a hideous business model, from the POV of the consumer. By this logic EA and Activision have made several "genius" moves that we weren't too happy about, but probably make tons of sense from a biz POV.

I don't care how much money MS makes, I just care about the value proposition, and this one blows goats.

Eusis · May 3, 2012

bangai-o said:
why? The majority of Gaf does want an uber powerful next generation. This is probably the only way we can see new consoles at the prices we are used to (250 range).

If the industry could easily afford the raising costs I might welcome it. But then if they could we'd probably see PC exclusives being more common and relevant, and that's how I liked the setup: consoles for cheap, but reliable gaming machines, and computers for less reliable and cheap but cutting edge whatever-you-want machines. As is I think it's people looking only at the positives (more raw power, and maybe bigger and more immersive games!) and not the negatives (system costs so damn much I could just spend a few hundred more and get an awesome PC, costs and expectations rise so much games actually shrink and get simplified rather than bigger and experimental.)

Dany · May 3, 2012

This makes it the perfect media box. Depending on which premium video service is available.

OldJadedGamer · May 3, 2012

Nerfgun said:
It is pretty smart. It's also disgusting.

I find it weird that people are applauding this move. It's one thing to admire a clever business move; it's another to actually support such a hideous business model, from the POV of the consumer. By this logic EA and Activision have made several "genius" moves that we weren't too happy about, but probably make tons of sense from a biz POV.

I don't care how much money MS makes, I just care about the value proposition, and this one blows goats.

I think most people commenting already own a 360 and are not affected. Most are looking at it from a business point of view.

Eusis · May 3, 2012

Dany M said:
This makes it the perfect media box. Depending on which premium video service is available.

Not in a world with Apple TV and Roku boxes at $100 or less WITHOUT contracts! You miss games, but depending on what you want playing Angry Birds on a Roku may've been enough anyway.

saunderez · May 3, 2012

Nerfgun said:
It's also disgusting.

What makes it worse than getting it on an interest free loan? Because people can and do already do that, there's always offers of "No Interest for 24 months for purchases over $xxxx" around here.

coldfoot · May 3, 2012

Dany M said:
This makes it the perfect media box. Depending on which premium video service is available.

If you're buying a 360 just as a media box, you're doing it wrong.

Dany · May 3, 2012

Eusis said:
Not in a world with Apple TV and Roku boxes at $100 or less WITHOUT contracts! You miss games, but depending on what you want playing Angry Birds on a Roku may've been enough anyway.

You still have to pay for content. You can stream easily from a pc to the xbox. and there are more apps on the 360 than aTV.

Plus it does games, I think that might be enough to warrent the 15 bucks a month. Depending, only depending on which premiums are offered.

painful fart · May 3, 2012

deadlast said:
This might be how next gen consoles will be sold. If so, I'm all in.

Jesus Christ on a bike, I do hope it is sarcasm, but I am afraid it´s not.

People need to step back and think about this. Is mandatory monthly gaming fees where we want to go. Me personally thinks it should be an option not something forced down my throat.

ElectricThunder · May 3, 2012

Huh...kind of a strange move considering unless they've radically improved the build quality outlook versus the start of the 360 life then that'd go against "established" warranty wisdom in a theoretical Durango gambit. Then again, maybe keeping consumers "tight" via a contract system would encourage them to top off hardware revisions and such for whatever gains aside from something not melting or some such?

Have to give them credit for trying to learn something from the mobile market as opposed to pretending they exist in a vacuum---even if this might well not actually pan out at all comparably.

OldJadedGamer · May 3, 2012

painful fart said:
Jesus Christ on a bike, I do hope it is sarcasm, but I am afraid it´s not.

People need to step back and think about this. Is mandatory monthly gaming fees where we want to go. Me personally thinks it should be an option not something forced down my throat.

Not forced. So far it is optional. Just like cellphone contracts.

LiquidMetal14 · May 3, 2012

alphaNoid said:
If the thread read exactly the same but you replaced the word Microsoft with Nintendo and 360 with Wii U, this thread would be entirely different. People would be hootin and hollering about how genius Nintendo is.

But since its MS...

No, it would be scoffed at no matter who. And it may happen to other manufacturers too so keep on hating!

Proelite · May 3, 2012

If this is the only way for console to be beastly next generation, I am all in. I'll spent $500-$1000 for a beyond traditional generation power leap upfront provided that they don't make much profit on each box.

I guess I just have a lot of disposable income.

Draft · May 3, 2012

This is the most obvious way next gen systems can ship with cutting edge hardware at a reasonable price.

Vane_MagicCity · May 3, 2012

I remember back in the 90's, I rented to own a CD-I. I only kept it a short time, it was clear that my Super Nintendo was superior to it. Glad I didn't buy that outright.

Eteric Rice · May 3, 2012

This is fucking terrifying.

Jesus Christ!

Tylahedras · May 3, 2012

This is pure evil genius.

Someone really out did themselves, sufficed to say I will never own any device that does this. Bet it's a success though.

Vane_MagicCity · May 3, 2012

Proelite said:
If this is the only way for console to be beastly next generation, I am all in. I'll spent $500-$1000 for a beyond traditional generation power leap upfront provided that they don't make much profit on each box.

I guess I just have a lot of disposable income.

The more expensive the console, the fewer people will buy it, even with a payment plan. The smaller the install base, the fewer games there will be. The more expensive the console, the more expensive it will be to make games, so again fewer games.

Proelite · May 3, 2012

Vane_MagicCity said:
The more expensive the console, the fewer people will buy it, even with a payment plan. The smaller the install base, the fewer games there will be. The more expensive the console, the more expensive it will be to make games, so again fewer games.

We'll see how this payment plan experience turns out. It's in my best interest for it to succeed.

cakefoo · May 3, 2012

If they give you $15 worth of content each month I could almost get behind this deal. But I don't really need a 360 or Kinect, especially this late.

agm2502 · May 3, 2012

Would people pay a subscription for all the games that get released included? similar to PS+ but with all games? i.e $60 a month for the console and games. I'd be tempted in the UK to pay £30-£40 a month if the console was included and all the games etc.

M-PG71C · May 3, 2012

Welcome to the future, fuckers. Isn't bright and glorious? Just as we have imagined all those years ago.

</sarcasm>

painful fart · May 3, 2012

OldJadedGamer said:
Not forced. So far it is optional. Just like cellphone contracts.

Yeah, it´s still optional, but I was refering to the next gen part.

Jake Tower · May 3, 2012

So in this model, if you stop making monthly payments, does Microsoft repo the Xbox? Or does it have to be connected to the internet to function and they deactivate it?

somuchwater · May 3, 2012

painful fart said:
Jesus Christ on a bike, I do hope it is sarcasm, but I am afraid it´s not.

People need to step back and think about this. Is mandatory monthly gaming fees where we want to go. Me personally thinks it should be an option not something forced down my throat.

If MS or Sony go high-end - think a $499 box, that uses what is now a current upper end video card like a 7850 - then it seems likely that they'd offer both pricing options.

The hardcore who bought launch 360s and PS3s will pay the $500, if not necessarily happily. Meanwhile, a a subsidized model at $249-$299 radically increases the pace at which the install base for the new console grows.

It's obviously smart from the viewpoint of MS or Sony. But ssuming this pricing model does transfer over to next gen, the question to consider is whether it would exclude traditional pricing. Would it benefit either company to tell consumers that they can't buy a console outright and, instead, that they'd have to lock themselves into a contract? (I say no.)

Proelite · May 3, 2012

Jake Tower said:
So in this model, if you stop making monthly payments, does Microsoft repo the Xbox? Or does it have to be connected to the internet to function and they deactivate it?

My guess is that the Xbox would have to make an internet connection once a month.

Vane_MagicCity · May 3, 2012

Proelite said:
We'll see how this payment plan experience turns out. It's in my best interest for it to succeed.

The payment plan will probably succeed, it worked for cell phones but when a cell phone costs $1000....it won't work as well then.

PG2G · May 3, 2012

Jake Tower said:
So in this model, if you stop making monthly payments, does Microsoft repo the Xbox? Or does it have to be connected to the internet to function and they deactivate it?

You'd probably get sent to collections and you get dinged on your credit

OldJadedGamer · May 3, 2012

painful fart said:
Yeah, it´s still optional, but I was refering to the next gen part.

I would imagine it would still be optional. MS isn't the only one coming out with a system.

UberTag · May 3, 2012

I think people expecting an ultra-high end console offering from Durango or Orbis with this kind of price initiative are deluding themselves. Developers and publishers are going bankrupt left & right to push games out on 7-year-old console hardware.

Anything that isn't an incremental increase in graphic horsepower is going to cripple all but a half-dozen companies and send the rest of them to Steam, iOS, portables and XBLA/PSN. Tone down those expectations fellas. Or put yourselves in freezers if you need holodecks as of yesterday.

Vane_MagicCity said:
The more expensive the console, the fewer people will buy it, even with a payment plan. The smaller the install base, the fewer games there will be. The more expensive the console, the more expensive it will be to make games, so again fewer games.

Pretty much this right here.

ReaperXL7 · May 3, 2012

Tylahedras said:
This is pure evil genius.

Someone really out did themselves, sufficed to say I will never own any device that does this. Bet it's a success though.

Sadly it will be, but at the expense of the consumer, because people never read the fine print. So when they see that Xbox for $99 they will jump on it, many not knowing what the "Catch" is until it's too late.

Proelite · May 3, 2012

UberTag said:
I think people expecting an ultra-high end console offering from Durango or Orbis with this kind of price initiative are deluding themselves. Developers and publishers are going bankrupt left & right to push games out on 7-year-old console hardware.

Anything that isn't an incremental increase in graphic horsepower is going to cripple all but a half-dozen companies and send the rest of them to Steam, iOS, portables and XBLA/PSN. Tone down those expectations fellas. Or put yourselves in freezers if you need holodecks as of yesterday.

Pretty much this right here.

The hope would be that ease of immersion of motion controls and better graphics, coupled with a deceptive pricing model would allow the console market to grow faster than the previous generation. There might be less developers around to share a potentially bigger market.

They don't need to make an ultra-high end console anyway. They just need one that's noticeably more powerful to the casual eye, which might cost anywhere from $500-$800 to manufacture. The alternative is a console that no one will be bothered to upgrade to.

Vane_MagicCity · May 3, 2012

OldJadedGamer said:
I would imagine it would still be optional. MS isn't the only one coming out with a system.

They are still the only one who charge for online play. They aren't afraid to chase a money trail alone.

ReaperXL07 said:
Sadly it will be, but at the expense of the consumer, because people never read the fine print. So when they see that Xbox for $99 they will jump on it, many not knowing what the "Catch" is until it's too late.

That's simlpy not true, they will have to sign the contract before being able to walk out with the hardware. They will be made aware of the terms.

cnizzle06 · May 3, 2012

ReaperXL07 said:
Sadly it will be, but at the expense of the consumer, because people never read the fine print. So when they see that Xbox for $99 they will jump on it, many not knowing what the "Catch" is until it's too late.

I'd have to think there's some required credit check so I can't really picture a "too late" scenario.

Eusis · May 3, 2012

Now that I think about it, I wonder how many among BOTH consumers and developers really just wish consoles could be like PCs given the PC game market isn't what it once was (or at least isn't viable enough for more expensive productions). Really expensive hardware, wanting to be as cutting edge as possible... this is what the PC is for, consoles don't need to be that too. Actually, given where PC gaming went it and where consoles are it may be more accurate to say it's what console gaming can not be.

Lebron · May 3, 2012

Someone put that Business degree to good work .

Family Fry · May 3, 2012

The catch?
Oh god, WE NEED TO BUY THE GAMES!

MadOdorMachine · May 3, 2012

The only redeeming aspect of this idea is that a lot of people already pay for Xbox Live Gold. If you're already paying for it, I can see it as acceptable. Otherwise, they would have to offer more content. It still worries me that an internet connection will be required for next gen systems.

Mxrz · May 3, 2012

This is a terrible thing to see, but not surprising. Hopefully Sony and Nintendo don't try to get in on it. This is the sort of junk that seems like it could kill console gaming altogether.

But if they were to, hey there's my PC (and maybe handhelds).

Visualante2 · May 3, 2012

From this I can assume one thing. Used consoles are ruining the gaming industry.

alr1ghtstart said:
So...$1000 for a full 5 year gen.

Suddenly PC gaming looks affordable!

alphaNoid · May 3, 2012

LiquidMetal14 said:
No, it would be scoffed at no matter who. And it may happen to other manufacturers too so keep on hating!

Fair enough.

ReaperXL7 · May 3, 2012

Vane_MagicCity said:
That's simlpy not true, they will have to sign the contract before being able to walk out with the hardware. They will be made aware of the terms.

cnizzle06 said:
I'd have to think there's some required credit check so I can't really picture a "too late" scenario.

Ahh, I did not see any of this information in the OP, or the article itself, so I was unsure of how it would work. If there is a contract that must be signed, and someone will actually explain to the customer what they signing, and why, then thats something else. Still I wonder how many people will understand what they are signing. I can't imagine most of the gamestop, or wal-mart employees I know bothering to take the time to explain these things to the customer.

It will be an interesting experiment if nothing else.

catotheyounger · May 3, 2012

What makes this such an insidious move is that Microsoft is the only one who can make this move, particularly because of the XBL service suite. If Sony or Nintendo respond in kind, it forces them to change their free online model - changing the culture that the brands have established. Perhaps Sony can use PSN+ as their service, but it would still stand as a paradigm shift in the culture of Playstation brand.

So let us say that Xbox is the only hardware that does subsidized hardware, they will be cheaper (initial cost, at least) than their competitors - maybe even cheaper than WiiU. Depending on the specs for WiiU, the subsidized model can conceivably allow for a higher-end console to be cheaper (again, initial cost) than an the competition one year after launch.

Like the idea or not, this is a bold move towards the mainstream.

Visualante2 · May 3, 2012

TheMan said:
if dlc were included in this subscription deal, it could be worth it.

Makes me wonder if we could see a Gold + Call of Duty Elite contract

ExitPlanetDust · May 3, 2012

It reminds me of a similar deal in early the 2ks when a certain ISP was offering to pay a huge chunk of a customer's new computer purchase. In return the customer would sign a 2 or 3 year contract for that ISP's dial-up service. Oh wait... that was MSN.

Most of those customers were still paying those dial-up ISP bills a year later when they had broadband. Microsoft definitely had the foresight to see the end of their MSN ISP's life cycle and lock in some extra cash.

Makes me wonder what's on the horizon for the Xbox/Xbox Live brand.

jet1911 · May 3, 2012

Well it's the way most people can afford 700$ smartphones so it's certainly a valid way to sell the product. It's going to be really interesting to see if it will work well for MS.

Kogepan · May 3, 2012

Nerfgun said:
It is pretty smart. It's also disgusting.

I find it weird that people are applauding this move. It's one thing to admire a clever business move; it's another to actually support such a hideous business model, from the POV of the consumer. By this logic EA and Activision have made several "genius" moves that we weren't too happy about, but probably make tons of sense from a biz POV.

I don't care how much money MS makes, I just care about the value proposition, and this one blows goats.

If Sony offered the SAME package the backlash would be unbelievable.

MS has been getting away with 50/year for the longest time, and now they're basically increasing the cost substantially to 180/year.

ElRenoRaven · May 3, 2012

Kogepan said:
If Sony offered the SAME package the backlash would be unbelievable.

MS has been getting away with 50/year for the longest time, and now they're basically increasing the cost substantially to 180/year.

Oh you didn't know. 50 is so two years ago. They raised it to 60 bucks last year man.

Lynn616 · May 3, 2012

What option do people prefer for next gen?

Large leap in power over this gen and pay $500 no subscription or $300 with subscription.
Medium leap in power over this gen and pay $300 no subscription.

airmangataosenai · May 3, 2012

OldJadedGamer said:
I think most people commenting already own a 360 and are not affected. Most are looking at it from a business point of view.

It's less about that and more about fear of this being a test for how far they can push things next generation. It's why I was glad to see the PSP Go fail so spectacularly.

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