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[Winnie the Pimp]

Or maybe they could afford it just fine if they saved $15 from their paycheck every week. At the end of the day its only $15 a month, if they can't afford that where are they getting the $99 to buy the console itself.

I'm afraid a lot of people sign contracts without ever asking themselves that question...

you see the thing is, they will not only act this way with ONE product, but everything they see and want, will be signed for and at the end of the month they are fucked but don't even realize it or don't give a damn.

 

[Micerider]

THIS is a "game changer" for me.

I'm not sure I like it (I would certainly not use it, I prefer to pay everything "up-front" than a binding contract), I'm not sure it will end well. But if this turns out to be a success, this would dramatically change the price war for next gen.

MS is basically using their cash reserve as a credit to consumer here, that's a smart use of their treasury.

Now, it can be considered as a rip-off in the end, but lower entry price means a greater use-base and a greater chance to feed the home console mass-market.

 

[lowrider007]

People saying models like this are enabling people in less fortunate economic situations to be buying expensive hardware (like 700 dollar cellphones or a console with such a model) have to consider this:

Maybe these people shouldn't be owning such hardware in the FIRST place if they can't "truly" afford it!

It is one of the problems of our economy that every single last one feels entitled to having the EXACT same standard of living as the next guy.

Result=a large portion of the population is indebted to the brim and still think they are living the good life, well i guess in a way they ARE but at a cost they do not yet realize...


So yeah, i think this system of low prices + subscriptions are nothing but a way of TRAPPING consumers by dangling a carrot in front of their face that says "buy me, you can now afford me" but in the end are screwing the consumer over, because MS or other big companies don't give a crap about your economic situation, they just want to cash in as quickly and as much as possible!

Consumer debt does also benefit the economy, around 70 percent of the United States GDP is fuelled by consumer spending, although it is a tentative balance, atm we have crossed over the threshold and consumer debt is now stopping us from spending, overall I do agree with your post, although there are more complicated reasons as to why we spend beyond our means, or rather particularly the poorer members of society are getting into to bigger debt.

Poorer people seem to care the most about these technological trinkets because that's the only thing they can afford and they are easily obtainable, they can't afford the security of a nice house or brand new cars or holidays to Belize, the way many middle class people live, so many poorer people add meaning and misconceived societal equality to their life with phones, big TVs, "designer" clothes etc, I lived in some poor estates while growing up and some of the most important things was how cool your trainers were, we often use our material wealth to gauge our self worth and place in society, it's not surprising though really, we live in a society where our economy relies on people over indulging, it's a broken system imo, we are trained from birth to spend spend spend.

 

[mrklaw]

$100 + another $360 in fees for a 4GB unit? Gross. Not only that but the end of a generation is the worst time to be locked into a contract. We'll see how the masses handle it but I don't like where this is going.

edit: Also the prime video content on 360 is Netflix and Hulu which have their own fees.

if you're buying a 360 only now, it isn't the end of the generation for you, its the start. The 720/durango is irrelevant to you for a good few years yet. Subscription is a nice idea to try out, but the $99 up front is a little heavy - can't you get 4GB consoles for $199 without kinect?

 

[Slayer-33]

Brilliant business move MS.

I am sure that this will be really well received.

 

[Micerider]

And at this time, MS is the sole player in the home-console field to be able to afford this subscription model.

Sony has not the treasury and Nintendo has no "subscription-type" service yet.

So, IF this becomes a major distribution standard for next-gen, Microsoft would certainly have a head-start.

Now I already fear the debt issues this could trigger with some..

 

[EXGN]

As seedy as this is, it's a smart move for Microsoft. I just hope they don't waste time with this at E3.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I wonder how much more the PS3 could have sold at $599 if people had this option.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

I really don't see why people are getting so up in arms about this - sure MS are dippin their toes into the pool seeing what they can get away with from a subscription/service perspective.

Odd from a gaming perspective now, but it was inevitable to head that way - services cost money and the easiest way to recoup the cost is to push it on back to the consumer - if they can get away with it.

Ok, as a gamer, that sucks, but I think that if you can get you're head straight and just think economically for a second - if the service is substandard or bettered elsewhere, then people will go elsewhere. It's the free market effect, and gaming is not and never was immune, we were just isolated and overlooked for a while.

Making gaming a service is not necessarily a bad thing - it puts power in the hands of the consumer IMO, and puts an onus on the service provider to fight for our dollar otherwise we will simply go to another service provider.

It's not what we are used to, sure, but anything that stays the same for too long simply stagnates

 

[gaming_noob]

I wonder how much more the PS3 could have sold at $599 if people had this option.

It may have won this generation. PS3 sold/and is selling fine with the higher price point.

 

[boutrosinit]

If this means it will come with HBO Go without the need to a cable sup I will totally buy one!

THIS.

If it comes with cable channels I actually WANT without the headache of Cable, then I'll bite.

 

[Jonm1010]

THIS.

If it comes with cable channels I actually WANT without the headache of Cable, then I'll bite.

I'd bite in a second if they managed to get cable channels like HBO, AMC, Discovery, Starz, Showtime and a few others.

Problem is I think cable providers will find a way to discourage this.

 

[StevieP]

It may have won this generation. PS3 sold/and is selling fine with the higher price point.

Revisionism

 

[bigtroyjon]

THIS.

If it comes with cable channels I actually WANT without the headache of Cable, then I'll bite.

And if it comes with a briefcase full of cash, I'll buy two!

People can't really be expecting to get subsidized hardware and a bunch of cable channels for $15 a month. That's silly.

 

[fluffydelusions]

I'd bite in a second if they managed to get cable channels like HBO, AMC, Discovery, Starz, Showtime and a few others.

Problem is I think cable providers will find a way to discourage this.

Yeah cable companies will screw it up per usual.

 

[coldfoot]

If this means it will come with HBO Go without the need to a cable sup I will totally buy one!

Keep dreaming. HBO Go wouldn't even accept if the entire $15/month was paid to them...

 

[coldfoot]

I'd bite in a second if they managed to get cable channels like HBO, AMC, Discovery, Starz, Showtime and a few others.

Problem is I think cable providers will find a way to discourage this.

Mad delusional on how much content can $15/month (realistically only a few dollars a month after the Xbox payment and XBL) buy.

 

[nincompoop]

Shady business practices like these are why I avoid supporting Microsoft whenever possible.

 

[Pociask]

This is still going on? Seriously. This is not a debt trap.

Take 2 individuals. Both make more money than they spend. Both have adequate savings in case of emergencies. However, neither have much extra cash, and neither can afford to put that much money into video games. That's why they're both still playing PS2, picking up used games at Gamestop.

Individual 1 takes the cash he has. He buys the 360 for 99 dollars. He then pays $15 dollars a month every month for 2 years. At the end of the two years, he has paid roughly $460. He has had a fun time buying used games, or trading with friends for games, and he has enjoyed playing them online and whatever other streaming services are offered. He got 2 years of enjoyment from the 360.

Individual 2 takes the cash he has and puts it in a jar. He keeps playing PS2 games. Every month for 2 years he puts 15 dollars in a jar. At the end of this time period, he has enough money in the jar to buy the 360, the kinect, and the 2 year gold subscription. He can now look forward to his 2 years of online enjoyment.

Meanwhile, Individual 1 can cancel the online services, and continue buying games used or trading for them from friends. He does this for 2 years. At the end of 4 years, both gamers have paid roughly the same amount, but Individual 1 has gotten roughly double the enjoyment out of his 360. WHAT AN IDIOT WHY DOESN'T HE SAVE HIS MONEY?

 

[Zeal]

I'm afraid the future of gaming is going to be service based, monthly fee based, streaming and shit. All online, MMO-type games only, including millions of microtransactions for anything.

This is bad.

 

[alphaNoid]

Shady business practices like these are why I avoid supporting Microsoft whenever possible.

Shady?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

This is still going on? Seriously. This is not a debt trap.

Take 2 individuals. Both make more money than they spend. Both have adequate savings in case of emergencies. However, neither have much extra cash, and neither can afford to put that much money into video games. That's why they're both still playing PS2, picking up used games at Gamestop.

Individual 1 takes the cash he has. He buys the 360 for 99 dollars. He then pays $15 dollars a month every month for 2 years. At the end of the two years, he has paid roughly $460. He has had a fun time buying used games, or trading with friends for games, and he has enjoyed playing them online and whatever other streaming services are offered. He got 2 years of enjoyment from the 360.

Individual 2 takes the cash he has and puts it in a jar. He keeps playing PS2 games. Every month for 2 years he puts 15 dollars in a jar. At the end of this time period, he has enough money in the jar to buy the 360, the kinect, and the 2 year gold subscription. He can now look forward to his 2 years of online enjoyment.

Meanwhile, Individual 1 can cancel the online services, and continue buying games used or trading for them from friends. He does this for 2 years. At the end of 4 years, both gamers have paid roughly the same amount, but Individual 1 has gotten roughly double the enjoyment out of his 360. WHAT AN IDIOT WHY DOESN'T HE SAVE HIS MONEY?

What if individual 1 realizes after a couple months that there's really not a whole lot to play right now on the 360? But now, he's hesitant to sell it, because he still has to pay $15 a month for it, because of the contract he signed. He's getting negative enjoyment -- he hates this piece of shit.

What if individual 2 wasn't a dipshit and saved more than $15 a month for something? Maybe if he just ordered off the dollar menu at WacArnolds for a week instead of buying chicken selects, his janitor budget could buy the 360 a lot sooner.

 

[Jonm1010]

Mad delusional on how much content can $15/month (realistically only a few dollars a month after the Xbox payment and XBL) buy.

I'd pay more than 15 a month for an a la carte cable setup.

I currently pay 160 dollars for cable and Internet and even cutting that by 30% is savings im willing to accept if I get a decent number of channels, features and programming.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

RE: next gen.

There is a big difference between paying up $800 up front or $200 + $800 over 2 years. Yes you end up paying more but you just don't feel/ notice it.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

the other elusive question is how to suspend your XBL subscription when you go on vacation for months at a time? i tried googling this but it only tells me how to suspend Netflix on xbox.....not XBL when you go on vacation

 

[bgassassin]

I like the concept, but not the choice of hardware they did this with. This "test" might end up working against them as it might not do well with that level of console causing them to abandon the idea when it could work well for their next console. Hopefully they will keep it going.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

Keep dreaming. HBO Go wouldn't even accept if the entire $15/month was paid to them...

well one can hope, right?

afterall MS was nice enough to allow free netflix access too all...xbox...gamers......


.......

nevermind.

 

[H_Prestige]

I figured MS would be the one to try out the contract model first. Seems right up their alley.

 

[goomba]

kinda surprised this hasnt already happened with consoles.

Makes sense especially with xbox considering theres already a required subscription to play online.

 

[Dresden]

It'd be competitive if they eliminated the 99 upfront fee.

 

[Brad Grenz]

lol cell phone services are a huge rip off. Anyone is deluding themselves if they think a 70dollar a month plan is "saves" money.

But at least it's a service, not not an arbitrary pay wall to use things you've already paid for (games you're hosting on your own system and network connection, apps developed by third parties and services you are paying for directly).

So it's the difference between getting a large hardware discount (often on cutting edge smart phones) with an actual service you need and would pay for anyway, or getting a meager hardware discount (on a 7 year old system that is long overdue for a real price cut anyway) with a "service" you may or may not want or need, the "value" of which is a carefully cultivated fiction.

 

[Speedymanic]

Being able to connect to anywhere besides Microsoft servers is subscription based on XBL. That's not much of a network if you ask me. Would you consider a PC connected to the internet if all it could access was microsoft.com and no other sites?

You need to keep paying Microsoft forever to be able to use 99.9% of your device's network capabilities. That's a fact. I just rounded that to 100% in my first post, hoping that my point would come across without getting stuck in semantics.

No, you don't.

game downloads and movie downloads don't make up .1 percent of what's on offer on XBL. You only gain access to online game and certain apps when you go gold, that isn't 99.9 percent of what's available on the service.

As I said, stop lying. Your claims of only being able to .1 percent without gold is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Speedymanic]

It'd be competitive if they eliminated the 99 upfront fee.

What are Sony and Ninty offering that makes this uncompetitive?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Shady business practices like these are why I avoid supporting Microsoft whenever possible.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Eusis]

Being able to connect to anywhere besides Microsoft servers is subscription based on XBL. That's not much of a network if you ask me. Would you consider a PC connected to the internet if all it could access was microsoft.com and no other sites?

You need to keep paying Microsoft forever to be able to use 99.9% of your device's network capabilities. That's a fact. I just rounded that to 100% in my first post, hoping that my point would come across without getting stuck in semantics.

Well, consoles and computers aren't really that comparable on that front for starters (and you couldn't connect anywhere else, subscription or no, on other services initially), and secondly getting to buy games/DLC/demos (though that last one's on a timed exclusive) is infinitely more than .1 percent. I'd at least say 75-90% is blocked off, 50% being online gaming and the rest the arbitrary bullshit Microsoft decided to block off because they want to squeeze more money out of you.

Not that you don't have a point that Microsoft blocks off way, way more than they should given their competitors, especially when factoring out online play, but given how big a deal XBLA and DLC are it's disingenuous to act as if the only thing you get without a subscription is the offer to subscribe. That's what the original Xbox had, and what would qualify as .1%.

 

[jaypah]

What if individual 1 realizes after a couple months that there's really not a whole lot to play right now on the 360? But now, he's hesitant to sell it, because he still has to pay $15 a month for it, because of the contract he signed. He's getting negative enjoyment -- he hates this piece of shit.

What if individual 2 wasn't a dipshit and saved more than $15 a month for something? Maybe if he just ordered off the dollar menu at WacArnolds for a week instead of buying chicken selects, his janitor budget could buy the 360 a lot sooner.

I know you're joking but if consumer 1 can't find stuff to play out of 6 years worth of games then he/she deserves to be sad. He/she obviously doesn't like games so why even buy into the contract?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

This is still going on? Seriously. This is not a debt trap.

Are you honestly surprised?

What if individual 1 realizes after a couple months that there's really not a whole lot to play right now on the 360?

But there is, and you could say the same for any console with a traditional pricing model. Besides, this is primarily aimed at people who haven't gotten a 360 or any other (similarly priced) console yet so it's extremely unlikely. They have hundreds and hundreds of games to catch up on, and plenty of entertainment content to enjoy.

What if individual 2 wasn't a dipshit and saved more than $15 a month for something? Maybe if he just ordered off the dollar menu at WacArnolds for a week instead of buying chicken selects, his janitor budget could buy the 360 a lot sooner.

What if JFK and Elvis were in fact the same person?

 

[Speedymanic]

But there is, and you could say the same for any console with a traditional pricing model. Besides, this is primarily aimed at people who haven't gotten a 360 or any other (similarly priced) console yet so it's extremely unlikely. They have hundreds and hundreds of games to catch up on, and plenty of entertainment content to enjoy.

But WHAT IF, dude. WHAT IF. They have to continue paying 15 got damn bucks every month for something they don't want.

 

[Nome]

This is really, really smart.

Kudos to MS! I hope it works out well. This could be pretty awesome for expanding gaming!

 

[coldfoot]

No, you don't.

game downloads and movie downloads don't make up .1 percent of what's on offer on XBL. You only gain access to online game and certain apps when you go gold, that isn't 99.9 percent of what's available on the service.

As I said, stop lying. Your claims of only being able to .1 percent without gold is absolutely ludicrous.

(IP addresses that you can connect to without XBL Gold)/(IP Addresses you can connect to with XBL Gold) < 0.1%
Let's see you spin this.

 

[H_Prestige]

What are Sony and Ninty offering that makes this uncompetitive?

$150-200 consoles without a contract?

 

[Lord Error]

And at this time, MS is the sole player in the home-console field to be able to afford this subscription model.

I really doubt that's the case. I've seen this type of thing offloaded to different financial services when the company in question didn't have its own financial branch. Sometimes when you buy a car for example, the financial branch you're paying to is completely different from the company you got the car from. This could well be handled that same way. Is there even such a thing as "Microsoft Financial" that you'll be paying this to?

 

[bigtroyjon]

I really doubt that's the case. I've seen this type of thing offloaded to different financial services when the company in question didn't have its own financial branch. Sometimes when you buy a car for example, the financial branch you're paying to is completely different from the company you got the car from. This could well be handled that same way. Is there even such a thing as "Microsoft Financial" that you'll be paying this to?

This isn't a loan, it is subsidized hardware like a cell phone.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Does it come in Rent-A-Center red and blue?

 

[statham]

Does it come in Rent-A-Center red and blue?

rent-a-center you would end up paying $1200 bucks for a 300$ machine. This one your paying $39 more.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

rent-a-center you would end up paying $1200 bucks for a 300$ machine. This one your paying $39 more.

It's not even worth trying to explain it anymore. People are just being ridiculous at this point.

 

[FLEABttn]

I wonder how much more the PS3 could have sold at $599 if people had this option.

It's hard to say, if only because MS would have copied that business plan were it successful and would also have been better positioned to have the upfront cost lower than Sony. Though even 3 months of disruption could have been a large game changer.

This one your paying $39 more.

Which isn't even factoring in the time value of money.

 

[KageMaru]

As seedy as this is, it's a smart move for Microsoft. I just hope they don't waste time with this at E3.

Shady business practices like these are why I avoid supporting Microsoft whenever possible.

Seedy?.......Shady?.....WTF is wrong with you people? lol

It's an option, it's not like they are hiding anything if this were true.

Would be amusing if all 3 companies offered a similar option next gen to see if certain opinions change all of a sudden.

 

[statham]

It's hard to say, if only because MS would have copied that business plan were it successful and would also have been better positioned to have the upfront cost lower than Sony. Though even 3 months of disruption could have been a large game changer.



Which isn't even factoring in the time value of money.

or the extra year of warranty that alot of people pay extra for at retail stores.

 

[Jex]

It'd be competitive if they eliminated the 99 upfront fee.

Right. The 360 is already pretty cheap. If you don't have the cash to buy a new one second hand ones are available as well. If the barrier for entry was only $15 that would certainly be something.