It's not like they are super expensive in middle America either. We regularly get them for $1 each, though $1.50 is common.
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Millionaire to Millennials: Stop Buying Avocado Toast If You Want to Buy a Home
- Thread starter kulapik
- Start date
It's not like they are super expensive in middle America either. We regularly get them for $1 each, though $1.50 is common.
yanipheonu
Member
I know, :S but the sentiment expressed sure hasn't lost its power...
Zoe
Member
It's not getting fucked if it allows you to buy the house before you're priced out of the market while rates are still at a historic low.
Though this typically means you paid it upfront via a higher interest rate or closing costs.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
You can eat all the avocado toast you want when you you've got a free 34k to play with.
benicillin
Banned
Well yeah I mean literally just being a living person adds up. Where do we stop blaming individuals for buying a coffee and start addressing the systemic issues that make everything so bad in the first place, like wages stagnating?
Should poor people just never eat out? Only drink Soylent? Not take Tylenol for a headache because they can get by without it and Tylenol will eat into their mortgage payment 15 years from now?
Like hey I'm all for responsible budgeting, but it's kind of crazy to me that we're sitting here complaining about people struggling to get by enjoying a coffee or meeting friends for brunch.
MyleMan1010
Member
There are many ways to avoid PMI. My wife and I put 15% down, and then payed the rest through a single premium policy. It's cheaper in the long run if you have the cash up front.
Invest that money yearly into stocks and with average return of 7% per annum after 10 years you have saved over 30k. I don't know California house prices, but in my places that is large enough down payment to get a mortgage.
titiklabingapat
Member
I get his point because there are tons of overpriced 'experiences' being sold now at the restaurants and tons of bougie shit rebranded as some millennial garbage with a 50% bougie tax. I rarely eat out nowadays and have been able to save tons of money as a result. I look at eating out as 'bonding with friends and family' instead of seeing of it as everyday food.
But it still doesn't change the fact that the purchasing power of an average individual is now less than it was decades ago.
But it still doesn't change the fact that the purchasing power of an average individual is now less than it was decades ago.
I do understand the importance of saving money, and living within one's means. The problem is deeper though, and many people can't afford houses even when cutting all of their non-essential expenses. That's why this feels like it's blaming poor people for wasting their money, when instead it's about them not being able to afford stuff even if they tried to save.
The Albatross
Member
It does not make sense to take two of the most expensive markets in the country, New York City and California, and then project that as indicative of the norm, by using terms like "median house price."
The median house price, in the US, is not $700,000. it is generally around $180-190k. Of course this varies dramatically by market.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Buying a 350k home and posting it is collateral with a mortgage on it is what I argued. Banks in cases like those tend to value the property at lower price in order to have an equity buffer if property prices start going down.
You can make some good food with the money you're spending at a restaurant though.
This is a very extreme case, but when I was living in the dorms, I used to eat either chicken breasts, rice, and veggies, or spaghetti every weekday. When Friday came, I'd buy myself some steak, country-style ribs (which are pretty cheap), or splurge on something else I could make at home. That helped me save quite a bit of money...which was promptly spent on frivolous stuff like video games, but you get the point.
Ron Mexico
Member
So two scenarios here, please tell me which one you'd prefer:
A) I wait several years to squirrel away 20% for avoiding PMI. In doing so, rates are now let's say 2% than they were when I could have bought with PMI. I now pay an additional $X each month in interest
or
B) I take advantage of still nearly historic lows, take my lumps with PMI (although there are cases where I don't even need to do that). My property then appreciates over those several years, I'm still paying down principal over those several years, and if I'm that concerned with PMI, I still then have the option to refi.
This is why I say we've failed at educating borrowers about all their options.
Muppet of a Man
Member
radios shipping overview
Member
What's that smell? Is it bootstrap oil?
AstroNut325
Member
Median price of a home in the USA is $315K and the average is $388K as of March 2017:
https://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/uspricemon.pdf
The mortgage payment on that median house would be around $1800-1900 per month. That would demand an income well above US household median income.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I cook at home a lot. I think more people should do it. But eating out is not keeping people from buying houses. If you spent $10 a day on food and instead saved it all you could afford a downpayment in like 10 years
TheCochese
Banned
Some of that though is the normalization of $2000 laptops, $6 coffees, $3000 mattresses and everything else we get bombarded with on a daily basis from the time we are born through advertising.
A huge part of the problem about not being able to afford things is how much we have to pay to debt. College. Car. Consumable crap. Only spending $2 on a daily coffee instead of $6 might not sound like much, but that could be $100 extra a month that you aren't spending. That could be an extra credit card payment, an extra car lease payment, extra payments to school loans, anything.
Housing costs are indeed a problem, inflation is indeed a problem, but consumer spending habits and budgeting are indeed a problem.
New construction though.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Old people say shit like this all the time as if there wasn't shit they were blowing their money on back then.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Another thing that people aren't addressing is that merely by owning a home the increased value in equity will provide you a pretty decent return.
Nobody wants to live in a shoebox in New York City, but at the rate of appreciation that is going on that postage stamp you bought for 200K will be double that in 5 years, quadruple in 10.
Nobody wants to live in a shoebox in New York City, but at the rate of appreciation that is going on that postage stamp you bought for 200K will be double that in 5 years, quadruple in 10.
People concentrating too much on avocados.
The general message is sound.
No it isn't. The housing market has gone up way faster than wages, and so have education costs, so many millennials have student debt their parents didn't have, PLUS much higher housing costs.
Ron Mexico
Member
If affordability is the concern, FHA and similar programs are the EXACT remedy. So all you would very well need to do is be prepared to let go of potential misconceptions.
There's give and take with every financing option, but the faulty logic (and again, I don't think it's your fault per se-- it's that nobody really taught this) is absolutely maddening.
Walter White Walker
Member
No, not really. I live 10 miles outside of Seattle and every new house built around me - and it's a metric shit ton of houses - starts near $580,000 with plenty going for a lot more than that. The average home values median for my county, Snohomish, is almost $400,000 which is brought down by houses out in the middle of bloody nowhere. You couldn't even buy a condo around here for $188,000.
Damn I don't got a $3000 mattress what the fuck did I go to college for? Fuck. Am I poor?
Chairmanchuck
Member
You still wouldnt get it under those circumstances. Thats why the average home buyer age in Germany is 41,5 years.
I can tell you with what my wife and me are earning, 30 years ago we could have easily gotten a 600k€ (1,2 million DM) loan. Not really possible nowadays.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
You don't say...
benicillin
Banned
I didn't know that Jason Chaffetz had a GAF account. Fucking poor people and their iPhones.
Isn't that chart for newly built homes, not all home sales?
I miss HUELEN
I buy avocado toast and own a home, thank you very much.
Seriously, though I think the housing issue is twofold:
1) Income is stagnating, and has been for years. Everyone knows this. Therefore, saving money is harder.
2) Our culture is becoming more and more service and experience driven and less about products. And those are way, way, way more expensive in the long run. Going to every music festival and convention while being subscribed to every single entertainment service in existence really adds up. It's tough to save when culture wants you to spend your money on every single thing or you'll miss out on all the fun, on the experience. Social media is part to blame, I'm sure.
You need good self-control to save money, and it's hard. But it's still possible. And yes, you can still buy avocado toast. But maybe not concert tickets every weekend.
Seriously, though I think the housing issue is twofold:
1) Income is stagnating, and has been for years. Everyone knows this. Therefore, saving money is harder.
2) Our culture is becoming more and more service and experience driven and less about products. And those are way, way, way more expensive in the long run. Going to every music festival and convention while being subscribed to every single entertainment service in existence really adds up. It's tough to save when culture wants you to spend your money on every single thing or you'll miss out on all the fun, on the experience. Social media is part to blame, I'm sure.
You need good self-control to save money, and it's hard. But it's still possible. And yes, you can still buy avocado toast. But maybe not concert tickets every weekend.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Well I can't really argue with you, since you Germans always had strange rules about everything.
But generally speaking, that is extremely risk averse banking. Risk management to that extant is quite rare.
This is a trite observation and given the millionaire's... credentials entirely unconvincing (which would be the ideal outcome from sharing this observation, I suppose?)
Here's an equally cogent observation: Water is wet.
Now, someone write an article about my insight into fluid mechanics and what it could mean for millennials.
I don't know how you aren't getting this. Do you realize that you can buy house houses in North Carolina and parts of Michigan, and hundreds of cities all over this country for under $100,000? No shit it's expensive in Seattle, S.F, San Jose, Portland, New York, etc. and in the suburbs around it.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
While rates are finally going up now, I don't think there has been any two year span where rates have increased by 2% in the past decade.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
He's totally right. We had friends in Melb looking for a house and they complained about how little money they had for it, but damn they were hitting those smashed avocado toasts like no one's business. They eventually settled for a small 2 bedroom @ $799k. They should have ordered the Almond Coconut Bircher Muesli for $15. Waaaaaay cheaper.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, is your point that houses are affordable in Kansas?
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
depends where you live. Everyone keeps talking about LA and NYC. SURPRISE, living in a prospering city is going to cost more year after year. There are forclosed homes in rural areas that can be had 20K or less in every state. They just need a little TLC.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Well I can't really argue with you, since you Germans always had strange rules about everything.
But generally speaking, that is extremely risk averse banking. Risk management to that extant is quite rare.
It might be, because unlike some other countries, banks dont earn money with debts here but with other schemes
It's still not the significant part of housing as the cost scale is exponentially more.
But berating people for not being frugal enough doesn't strike me as the right course of action if it it were. Let me propose the "problem" in a different way. Why shouldn't, after 30 years of technological advancement, people be able to have both daily coffee and housing?
Or alternatively. Why spend many years of your life sleeping on a crappy mattress when the value saved is never going to amount to a goal as large as housing? Why not just get a new mattress and enjoy what little you have rather than wait until you're 60 and have a bad back from sleeping on a crappy mattress?
benicillin
Banned
Except that's not where a lot of professional jobs are.
TheCochese
Banned
Atlanta is still a lower threshold for entry and has the benefits of a good job market. Moving is a tough decision, but it should be one people are open to if there's a job there for you.
cubicle47b
Member
Kansas City is a really nice place. You can basically live in a mansion in Overland Park for $250K (edit: well, $275K-$300K).
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Seattle is not New York.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Horrible spelling and grammar post about how the generation after your own is the worst ever.
Nothing new here.
I was touring a bunch of houses in Florida yesterday and there were a bunch of hugeass two-story houses with 5+ bedrooms that were each almost as big as my old 900 sq. Ft apartment for sub 500K.
These are basically mansions. The lowest end ones were still fuckhuge with 4 bedrooms for 225K.
What houses are you looking at for 700k and why does anyone need that much living space unless they're housing their entire goddamn family.
These are basically mansions. The lowest end ones were still fuckhuge with 4 bedrooms for 225K.
What houses are you looking at for 700k and why does anyone need that much living space unless they're housing their entire goddamn family.
Lots of handwringing about those damn welfare queens, lobster eating food stampers, section 8ers with working fridges, expensive trendy millennials in this topic, but I'm fairly certain research indicates millennials are frugal ,comparatively speaking.
Famously Frugal: Nearly 40 Percent of Millennials Will Stash Their Tax Refund
Macy's is making one fatal mistake about its customers
http://fortune.com/2015/04/29/why-millennials-and-the-depression-era-generation-are-more-similar-than-you-think/
Famously Frugal: Nearly 40 Percent of Millennials Will Stash Their Tax Refund
Macy's is making one fatal mistake about its customers
http://fortune.com/2015/04/29/why-millennials-and-the-depression-era-generation-are-more-similar-than-you-think/