No, I asked which of these countries are basically North Korea. Not "close", even though your definition of close is still miles away. And again, "self-declared" means shit.
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N.Korean soldier escaping to S.Korea
- Thread starter WinterIsComing
- Start date
No, I asked which of these countries are basically North Korea. Not "close", even though your definition of close is still miles away. And again, "self-declared" means shit.
JordanN
Banned
I only mention close, because these same countries rejected parts of socialism to move towards a higher standard of living that only capitalism provides.
And that's exactly my point. If you didn't think socialism failed or none were like North Korea, why did all those states collapse? Vladimir Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev all ran dictatorships on par with what Kim Jong Un is now doing.
It's not benefiting you when I leave Cuba and China off the list.
No, you mention close because it is all you have. They're not "close" to North Korea, and even if it was you are equating what basically amount to dictatorships to socialism and thinking that is a reasonable comparison. And at the same time ignoring places where socialist ideologies are thriving and benefiting its citizens such as Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Canada and plenty of others to various extents. Your whole argument is AT BEST disingenuous and at worst simply propaganda.
Soleil rouge
Member
Hard to believe he survived that final mad dash. Those soldiers were on his ass right as he exited the vehicle. Lol and he did all this with giant parasitic worms slowly devouring his insides. This guy deserves a medal.
*Presses F to pay respects*
*Presses F to pay respects*
Blood Borne
Member
A person putting his life on the line to escape socialism/communism to capitalism.
JordanN
Banned
Do you really want to know how brutal Stalin was?
He actively spied on his own population, killed anyone he suspected was a traitor, demanded a cult of worship aroudn him, starved and forcefully deported millions to create his planned economy.
That's because that's what socialism leads to!Euphor!a said:
You can't have socialism without it turning into a dictatorship. When all class system is abolished, you'll end up with corruption because humans will always want more. And because the system favors state ownership, those in government will have ultimate authority to oppress everyone below them.
They're not socialist. Those are capitalist countries.Euphor!a said:
Capitalism = Private ownership is allowed
Socialism = Everyone (i.e the state) owns all property
Obviously not, since countries can adopt aspects of socialism and yet are not dictatorships. And what fantasy land are you living in where capitalism is not just fucking plagued with corruption? How can you even say something as silly as that and not realize how insane that is. Like, you don't even have to look very hard.
JordanN
Banned
There hasn't been a socialist country that didn't end in dictatorship.
Capitalism, even with its flaws, is still highly compatible with a democratic society. The means of productions are owned by private groups, who can then have their own say or be represented in the government. Admittedly, the worst flaw in this is that society almost becomes feudalistic but again, like a free market, people can vote in or out leaders they disagree with.
And is still, wildly corrupt. What are you even talking about?
JordanN
Banned
I didn't say Capitalism wasn't corrupt. But Socialism, for a fact, ends in dictatorship/North Korea-tier failures.
The biggest success stories in history are still nations built on capitalism.
You suggested socialism was corrupt as if that was somehow different than capitalism. There is literally no sense in mentioning it otherwise.
JordanN
Banned
Ok dude, I think we can end the debate here.
I think i made enough points that show Socialism doesn't work.
Get rid of private ownership and then tell me what happens to them.
PapaGreg95
Member
Canada, Ireland, Norway, The Scandinavian countries places with high socialist leanings that aren't on a rise to dictatorship
It was never a debate. You are clearly wrong, and moved the goalposts over and over until they ended up in a different stadium.
JordanN
Banned
I'm wrong, because a soldier had to run for his life while being shot at by several malnourished and parasite infected comrades because he didn't understand Socialism well enough.
Ok. 😂😂😂
No, you're wrong for a multitude of reasons which have nothing to do with this and more to do with you being unable to argue a point without having to change it every time you post.
Blood Borne
Member
But they are. Germany just sent a woman to prison for 10 months just because she denied the holocaust.
I mean, yes it's a shitty thing to deny something like that but being sent to prison for 10 months because of words is straight up tyranny.
Very soon, people will be sent to jail for criticising the government, then that's when you know full on fascism is back.
It could be something such as misgendering a politician and you'll be jailed for hate speech and bigotry. If that isn't dictatorship, then I don't know what is.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
More capitalist with splashes of socialism. Gotta use it in small doses
Shocker, you are against someone being punished for hate speech, who would have thought lol
JordanN
Banned
And even then, I still fear it's too much.
Ontario has been upping the minimum wage and businesses are retaliating by raising prices. The only one who benefits will be the government, because they can claim higher taxes.
Yep, we can't let them poors have a livable wage.
JordanN
Banned
Or they can work harder and either move up the corporate ladder or find another job that pays more.
When minimum wage goes up, incentive to work harder goes down.
You can't make every job equal. Because everyone equal = everyone becomes poor.
Or you can just make all jobs have livable wages, but no, because fuck the poors.
JordanN
Banned
*Looks at North Korea*
I'm sure those livable wages are doing them good.
A poor person in a Capitalist country still has an infinitely better life. The minimum wage wont make you richer as long as cost of goods goes higher to compensate. If you want out of your situation, be the best employee and plan for the future. Don't wait for the government to send you a cheque saying you did ok so here's your money.
LightofRohan
Member
Curious though, what would happen if a South Korean Soldier did the same thing running to the N. Korean side? Would they try and stop them? Or would North Korea stop them.
I'm going to need some proof that every minimum wage increase causes an exact increase in costs of goods and services to offset it. I doubt you'll provide it because you and I both know it is all bullshit.
JordanN
Banned
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tim-hortons-increase-prices-items-august-2-142304039.html
Note, they actually raised the price BEFORE the minimum wage officially goes into effect (2018). So you can bet more price hikes are coming when companies are forced to pay higher wages.
No. Not a single business. I want an example of state/country wide price increases that ENTIRELY offset minimum wage increases.
JordanN
Banned
Every restaurant has raised their prices. One company is not going to provide cheaper food if they're about to lose money on it.
*Source: I live here.
So they can't buy stuff on Amazon anymore, Walmart? Every single marketplace has now raised their prices that completely offset this minimum wage increase.
Your ass is not a source, sorry.
No one thinks that price inflation accounts for 100% of the increase in the minimum wage, there are other effects as well, most notably unemployment effects.
The point is that an increase in the minimum wage does not and can not increase net wealth, it can only decrease wealth because it makes marginally profitable workers unemployable.
The point is that price controls are the worst of all possible ways for the government to regulate the economy, and even a sizable percentage of left wing economists would agree with that.
Price increases are certainly a notable effect though, so they have to be included in the costs of a minimum wage increase.
What would help? Let me guess, trickle down economics?
Regardless, he clearly does think it does, he keeps saying it. And his proof is Tim Horton's or some shit.
Trickle down economics is not a thing, and never was.
If you want welfare to make poor people's lives better, argue for that. If people don't have the skills needed to make a decent wage, either teach them or help them financially, don't fuck with prices.
Price controls are just terrible policy, and they have been for the last nearly 1800 years that they have been tried. We should have learned this lesson after Diocletian, but alas, humans are stubborn creatures.
I don't know why you think I am arguing for price controls.
Wait we are talking about the minimum wage are we not?
Yes?
WaterAstro
Member
They are all dead anyway.
How "families" come about in North Korea is disgusting too. The regime sets up couples, especially for soldiers and immigrant workers so they can hold their families hostage.
An immigrant worker had a brother and a mother, but he escaped his Russian worker compound anyway. He was sent pictures of his dead mother in one of NK's death camps.
TTOOLL
Member
Since when welfare and caring are socialist things? It's just human decency, of course not all humans are decent, but that's another point.
Nikodemos
Member
Those look like two pairs of ascarids. The smaller ones are the males, the larger ones the females.
Ascarid infestations used to be common due to poor sanitation. It is rumoured that a large number of North Koreans suffer from helminthiasis due to the regime's practice of fertilizing cropfields with untreated feces.
Xenobureido
Banned
Since forever? I'd advise to re-read the definition of socialism. Violence is not part of it. That some socialist countries are terrible is rooted in other aspects of their government.
There are several cases of this happening. Or at least of regular SK people defecting without problems. Pretty sure SK react similarly but without the shooting :lol Hard to tell how the defectors are doing once they're off the grid though.
SK has daily worker transports to factories inside NK too so it's not 100% closed off.
entremet
Member
These are capitalist countries with strong social welfare programs. Huge difference. What is funding those programs? Mostly wealth created by open markets.
Lionel Richie
Member
None of these places are socialist, they employ heavy taxes and an actually competent state. Repeating Sweden forever as an example of a socialist state that worked doesn't make it true.
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
This is a thread about a North Korean soldier escaping into South Korea. Why are you talking about the minimum wage in Canada?
Most people who uses that fallacy uses it wrong.
Please explain to me how North Korea is Socialist.
Also this has nothing to do with Socialism or Capitalism, otherwise I can use your faulty logic against you.
"South Korea shoots dead a man trying to swim to North"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24105977
That's not real Capitalism you know... /s
Whenever something bad happens in a country they think is Socialist it's the fault of Socialism, when something bad happens in a country that's Capitalist, people put on their critical thinking abilities and will never blame Capitalism (Because it's ridiculous, not every good or bad thing is a result of an economic model)
Ah yes, I've been living in a tyranny for almost 3 decades and I never noticed. Wow I feel so oppressed with affordable healthcare for everyone. This law of not denying the holocaust has been in place since the second World War ended. There is no "very soon". There won't be an escalation of anything. Your irrational fear mongering is so off base it hurts.