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Why is there hate for a cash down preorder?

N

Nowhere Man

Member
I didn't realize there was any. I only preorder if there's a reason too, like a free art book, or if there's a chance the game may be hard to get hold of otherwise like Deadly Premonition DC. I don't mind putting money down for that, I'm going to spend it anyway.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
mibupe said:
Also, why tip and have to pay an additional amount of money to them when you can pay the same?
Click to expand...
There is no good reason to do this, yes.

Likewise and similarly, there is no good reason for me to commit my money - to spend it in exchange for nothing immediately - now just to ensure that other employees get a better paycheck.

I need the money that I have earned more than they do.
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
I actually prefer putting money down in person at a store and being assured of getting my product on the very day or next. But I don't have time for midnight launches and the pains of dealing with certain individuals and such so it's just easier for me to preorder stuff online and have it delivered some place where I don't have to worry about people messing with it.
 
K

kollapse

Neo Member
Giving an interest-free loan to anyone is just bad business, whether you're in the business of lending money or not.

Why throw away the time value of your money and give it to a corporation that is in a much stronger borrowing position than any individual?
 
Rei no Otaku

Rei no Otaku

Member
Juancho9 said:
Oh comn, I'd rather get a good nights rest before playing on the system for near 24 hours straight.
Click to expand...
I work second shift. Any packages delivered to me don't get here until 5 or 6pm. Which means I wouldn't get to even see the console until midnight the next day. Retail is a must for me.
 
J

jmood88

Member
I don't "hate" it but I like being able to preorder stuff without having to pay for it or put money down immediately. I also don't like GameStop so I never shop there.
 
S

SirMossyBloke

Member
jediyoshi said:
You act as if there's a certainty applied to every retail situation ever. Tell me more of this fantasy world where your anecdotes outweigh everyone else's.
Click to expand...

The fact that there isn't certainty in deliveries is the bigger problem.

I love how packages not being delivered on time is now a fantasy in your eyes. You need to Internet more.

Edit: I can't read properly.
 
R

RumblingRosco

Member
I hate giving people free loans because I'm very money-conscious. It's why I make sure I don't get refunds from the government come tax-time each year, and if I play my cards right, I aim to have to pay them a little.

"I look down my long, spindly nose at people that give out free loans" I say with a SNEEZE.
 
V

Valnen

Member
Jobbs said:
you're getting in line to buy something. why pay to get in line.
Click to expand...

Because you're not really paying to get in line when the money goes to your purchase anyway. You're not paying anything extra, you're paying what you would have paid anyway.
 
H

Hilti92

Member
dog$ said:
There is no good reason to do this, yes.

Likewise and similarly, there is no good reason for me to commit my money - to spend it in exchange for nothing immediately - now just to ensure that other employees get a better paycheck.

I need the money that I have earned more than they do.
Click to expand...

So you need that extra $5 in interest you will get? Maybe you should be saving your money instead of buying games in the first place then if that $5 interest that you wont see for a long time is that big of a deal to you.
 
T

teacupcopter

Banned
dog$ said:
OK. What counter arguments are permissible to you?

I fucking care about dropping twenty of my bucks down.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm not articulating myself properly.

Your 20 bucks isn't going to change the way our economy works, it isn't going to increase or decrease competition within the marketplace, and you have a choice anyway.

Interest on $20 is like what, 40 cents over the next 6 months?

I just don't get why people are even up in arms over it. Plenty of businesses have deposits, not because they 'need' it but because they want to secure a commitment from their customer. You say it's about businesses taking risk, but there is nothing inherently wrong with minimising that risk by saying "hey, this is a hot item and we want to maximise our sales in the market. We will do this by securing a deposit for each pre order so we know we will move this stock"

I have no issue with people pettily thinking this is too much and going to the many alternatives (amazon, taking your chance on the day on picking one up, waiting, etc) but I guess I don't understand

1. Why people give a shit

2. Why people think it's OK to use the argument that they don't want to pay a deposit because they aren't getting anything in return when the business is specifically ordering something for you and getting nothing in return in your argument

3. Why people, generally Americans, fall back on free market, capitalism, free trade, competition, and all that shit when financial discussions come up. I get that it's drummed into you from an early age, I had three years of schooling in the USA and it really got drummed into me as well. But in any other country you'd just get a "oh cool so $20 bucks and the PS4 is waiting for me day one?" and in America you get "INTEREST ON MY $20! THIS IS NOT HOW CAPITALISM WORKS, YOU NEED TO FIGHT FOR MY DOLLARS"

It's just so petty, I don't even know why I'm even caring as well, but here we are. Why do you give a fuck about your $20 anyway?
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
mibupe said:
So you need that extra $5 in interest you will get?
Click to expand...
Given the choice and all else being equal, I'd rather have $5 that I have earned rather than someone else have $5 that I have earned.

I need the money that I have earned more than they do.

Maybe you should be saving your money instead of buying games in the first place then if that $5 interest that you wont see for a long time is that big of a deal to you.
Click to expand...
You are advocating giving prepayments to a corporation in order to help bolster its payroll.

And you now want to preach to me how I should spend my money?
 
L

Leucrota

Member
All my money I put down for the pre order was from trade in credit. If I had steady employment and was guaranteed a console on launch, I would have gone with Amazon. However, that was not the case when I put in for a console on amazon, so game stop it is.
 
H

Hilti92

Member
dog$ said:
Given the choice and all else being equal, I'd rather have $5 that I have earned rather than someone else have $5 that I have earned.

I need the money that I have earned more than they do.


You are advocating giving prepayments to a corporation in order to help bolster its payroll.

And you now want to preach to me how I should spend my money?
Click to expand...

You have a job. The money they are allocating towards additional hours could possibly bring in more associates. So in that sense, the $5 you are giving and that hundreds of other people give generates the interest which then gives them hours, which they can use on their current associates and to hire future ones. Fuck, I am guess a lot of the people who work there are just high school kids or people in university struggling to get by like most part time workers.
 
R

Romir

Member
The only time I made a cash down pre-order (Gears of War), Gamestop didn't have enough stock on hand to fulfill it on day one. I haven't been to one of their stores since.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
teacupcopter said:
I guess I'm not articulating myself properly.

Your 20 bucks isn't going to change the way our economy works, it isn't going to increase or decrease competition within the marketplace, and you have a choice anyway.

Interest on $20 is like what, 40 cents over the next 6 months?

I just don't get why people are even up in arms over it.
Click to expand...
I can only speak for myself in saying that I'm not being up in arms over it. The thread asked a question and I gave and continue to give answers. No vitriol here.
Plenty of businesses have deposits, not because they 'need' it but because they want to secure a commitment from their customer. You say it's about businesses taking risk, but there is nothing inherently wrong with minimising that risk by saying "hey, this is a hot item and we want to maximise our sales in the market. We will do this by securing a deposit for each pre order so we know we will move this stock"
Click to expand...
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with me saying "I understand that you're a business and that you want to minimize risk, but until you provide me with a specific good or service that I value, I will not give you any money."

2. Why people think it's OK to use the argument that they don't want to pay a deposit because they aren't getting anything in return when the business is specifically ordering something for you and getting nothing in return in your argument
Click to expand...
The deposit is simply something which I don't consider to be valuable.
3. Why people, generally Americans, fall back on free market, capitalism, free trade, competition, and all that shit when financial discussions come up. I get that it's drummed into you from an early age, I had three years of schooling in the USA and it really got drummed into me as well. But in any other country you'd just get a "oh cool so $20 bucks and the PS4 is waiting for me day one?" and in America you get "INTEREST ON MY $20! THIS IS NOT HOW CAPITALISM WORKS, YOU NEED TO FIGHT FOR MY DOLLARS"
Click to expand...
To this lovely generalization, I think the only appropriate response is "Because it's my $20."
Why do you give a fuck about your $20 anyway?
Click to expand...
Because it's my $20.

If you care to indulge me on this for my personal viewpoint -

My current pay-the-bills job is pushing carts at WalMart. I earn less than $9 per hour. $20 is two hours of me pushing a thousand pounds of metal on wheels uphill while I'm outside in the heat, the cold, the rain, or the snow. $20 is two hours of strain on my back and my legs and my feet. $20 is two hours of me picking up discarded food, used motor oil, used diapers, used colostomy bags, and other figurative and literal shit out of the carts which the customers leave behind. $20 is two hours of doing this in a parking lot where people drive by me and verbally assault me if I have the audacity of impeding their progress for more than five seconds while I do my job.

That's my $20.

If you want my $20, I don't think it's too much to ask for you to justify earning it considering how I have earned it.
 
N

Novocaine

Member
Interest as an argument is a strange one. How much interest do you guys earn on $100 over 4 months? Because I get jack shit.
 
P

Pops Maellard

Member
Because you're essentially spending money on nothing? If I pre-order on Amazon, I lock in a launch day system (when that was available) and still have all of my money available. I of course have $400 to pay for it now, and will have $400 when the system releases to pay for it then. But I didn't have to lose any money to something I won't get for 5 months.

If I preorder from Gamestop, I'm now $100 down. That's $100 I might have needed at some point, money that could have been earning interest sitting in my bank account or in the form of an investment, but instead it's sitting in Gamestop's figurative pocket for no reason.
 
M

My Name Is Luke

Member
I think the only thing really preventing me from placing an order for a PS4 with Amazon is that I'm horrified at the thought of something going wrong with the delivery since I live in kind of a sketchy neighborhood at the moment. But thinking about how I suffered through the 360 and Wii launches, it's becoming a more enticing offer.

If anything I'm going to wait until an actual date is announced before I make my order.
 
T

teacupcopter

Banned
dog$ said:
I can only speak for myself in saying that I'm not being up in arms over it. The thread asked a question and I gave and continue to give answers. No vitriol here.
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with me saying "I understand that you're a business and that you want to minimize risk, but until you provide me with a specific good or service that I value, I will not give you any money."


The deposit is simply something which I don't consider to be valuable.

To this lovely generalization, I think the only appropriate response is "Because it's my $20."

Because it's my $20.

If you care to indulge me on this for my personal viewpoint -

My current pay-the-bills job is pushing carts at WalMart. I earn less than $9 per hour. $20 is two hours of me pushing a thousand pounds of metal on wheels uphill while I'm outside in the heat, the cold, the rain, or the snow. $20 is two hours of strain on my back and my legs and my feet. $20 is two hours of me picking up discarded food, used motor oil, used diapers, used colostomy bags, and other figurative and literal shit out of the carts which the customers leave behind. $20 is two hours of doing this in a parking lot where people drive by me and verbally assault me if I have the audacity of impeding their progress for more than five seconds while I do my job.

That's my $20.

If you want my $20, I don't think it's too much to ask for you to justify earning it considering how I have earned it.
Click to expand...

Fair enough I guess but you're going to spend that $20 either way mate, and this way helps a business conduct itself better. But I suppose "until you give me a service" (what a joke, for example I work in travel, nothing my clients pay for give them a service straight away) is a great argument for some people.
 
J

jmood88

Member
teacupcopter said:
3. Why people, generally Americans, fall back on free market, capitalism, free trade, competition, and all that shit when financial discussions come up. I get that it's drummed into you from an early age, I had three years of schooling in the USA and it really got drummed into me as well. But in any other country you'd just get a "oh cool so $20 bucks and the PS4 is waiting for me day one?" and in America you get "INTEREST ON MY $20! THIS IS NOT HOW CAPITALISM WORKS, YOU NEED TO FIGHT FOR MY DOLLARS"

It's just so petty, I don't even know why I'm even caring as well, but here we are. Why do you give a fuck about your $20 anyway?
Click to expand...

Where did this nonsense about America come from? Most of the people in this thread aren't fans of paying for preorders and many aren't American (unless grocery stores across the US are all of a sudden selling game consoles). It seems like you just had some anti-American crap you wanted to get off your chest.
 
V

vilmer_

Member
Personally I don't have a problem with having to put money down for a pre-order. There are places that do and some that don't. You don't have to put money down if you don't want to. With that said, if I have to put $100 down on a system I sure as hell better be guaranteed a launch day pick up.
 
B

bro1

Banned
mibupe said:
Seriously, in almost every thread about the PS4 or XBONE, there is people questioning why people preorder from GameStop or else where that charges you a bit of money upfront or whatever? Why the hate for that? Sure, you may be giving companies like that a cash advance or whatever but that helps give people jobs with the company. Don't complain about the economy if you don't want to help it. Also, it is nice gradually paying for shit. I go in to GameStop and throw down $10 or $20 every pay cheque towards my PS4. I don't want to have to put it into my bank account and accidentally spend it else where nor do I want to risk losing the cash if I hide it some place or carry it with me. So GAF, why is there so much hate for the preorder?
Click to expand...
How about you just save your money? Do you lack the self control to put away $400 over the next few months?
 
P

pwack

Member
Chamber said:
Easier for some people to drop $50 every week or so than to have $400-$500 taken out of their account all at once plus whatever they plan to spend on games, especially when an emergency can pop up at any time. If that's your situation I don't see a problem with it.
Click to expand...

This argument is ridiculous and backwards. If you are worried about an emergency, you should keep your money in hand, not give it away to GS!!

If you don't have the money for a new console, don't buy one. If you can afford a new console but lack the will power to curb your discretionary spending and save for it --grow up.

Edit: putting down a small sum at the time of a reservation as "honest money" so GS knows you really want you Xbone is one thing. Paying the console off ahead of time is another, much stupider thing.
 
N

Novocaine

Member
Pops Maellard said:
Because you're essentially spending money on nothing? If I pre-order on Amazon, I lock in a launch day system (when that was available) and still have all of my money available. I of course have $400 to pay for it now, and will have $400 when the system releases to pay for it then. But I didn't have to lose any money to something I won't get for 5 months.

If I preorder from Gamestop, I'm now $100 down. That's $100 I might have needed at some point, money that could have been earning interest sitting in my bank account or in the form of an investment, but instead it's sitting in Gamestop's figurative pocket for no reason.
Click to expand...

Will you get it on launch day with free shipping though or do you have to pay for that?
 
T

teacupcopter

Banned
jmood88 said:
Where did this nonsense about America come from? Most of the people in this thread aren't fans of paying for preorders and many aren't American (unless grocery stores across the US are all of a sudden selling game consoles). It seems like you just had some anti-American crap you wanted to get off your chest.
Click to expand...

I love the US, I lived there for three years, it's just a few threads lately I see this really cut throat business attitude, for example some of the responses in the French book thread in OT, "businesses just were meant to die"

I guess I'm just really disheartened by the political discourse lately in the US and online, with people more interested in talking about how free market, competition, etc etc when in reality what the US really needs is some heavy, severe regulation of the markets, but that is the opposite of what will happen. This is getting way off topic though.

Mainly my point is why are people begrudging businesses from wanting a deposit on a product they are placing an order on for a client
 
C

ChosenPredator

Banned
i paid cash for xb1/ps4 just so i dont have to worry about it later when i pick it up - i don't really trust preordering online since i always read fucked up stories lol
 
H

Hilti92

Member
bro1 said:
How about you just save your money? Do you lack the self control to put away $400 over the next few months?
Click to expand...

I have enough money to pay for the system in my bank account right now if I wanted to. I put my money I receive as tips towards the system as well as $10 from my pay each week. I find this to be the easiest way. I wouldn't waste my money on shit if it sits in my bank account but it is always possible I suppose.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
mibupe said:
You have a job. The money they are allocating towards additional hours could possibly bring in more associates. So in that sense, the $5 you are giving and that hundreds of other people give generates the interest which then gives them hours, which they can use on their current associates and to hire future ones. Fuck, I am guess a lot of the people who work there are just high school kids or people in university struggling to get by like most part time workers.
Click to expand...
As explained earlier, I am one of those struggling part time workers.

Let's make a deal - I'll gladly give my money away to help them out as soon as any of them give their money away to help me out.
teacupcopter said:
Fair enough I guess but you're going to spend that $20 either way mate, and this way helps a business conduct itself better.
Click to expand...
I personally don't feel that a business should even oblige, much less expect, prepurchase income in order to help conduct itself better.
But I suppose "until you give me a service" (what a joke, for example I work in travel, nothing my clients pay for give them a service straight away) is a great argument for some people.
Click to expand...
It's a discussion about money and what justifies an exchange of money. I fail to see how asking for anything of value in exchange of money - be it a good, service, or otherwise - is not justifiable.

ps: My mother worked for a booking agency for fifteen years. I know all too well about the headaches that she has had to deal with regarding irate customers who had to deal with travel agents who were either unable to communicate their product or incompetent in doing so. I know about the calls that she has made to airlines, hotels, and resorts in order to conduct her business. Her work was a service. Your work is a service.
 
T

teacupcopter

Banned
dog$ said:
I personally don't feel that a business should even oblige, much less excpect, prepurchase income in order to help conduct itself better.


It's a discussion about money and what justifies an exchange of money. I fail to see how asking for anything of value in exchange of money - be it a good, service, or otherwise - is not justifiable.

ps: My mother worked for a booking agency for fifteen years. I know all too well about the headaches that she has had to deal with regarding irate customers who had to deal with travel agents who were either unable to communicate their product or incompetent in doing so. I know about the calls that she has made to airlines, hotels, and resorts in order to conduct her business. Her work was a service. Your work is a service.
Click to expand...

You are getting something ordered for you, so it can be picked up at 12:01AM on the night it comes out, at a launch party where staff will be working overtime, how is this not a service they are providing to you?
 
H

Hilti92

Member
dog$ said:
As explained earlier, I am one of those struggling part time workers.

Let's make a deal - I'll gladly give my money away to help them out as soon as any of them give their money away to help me out.

I personally don't feel that a business should even oblige, much less excpect, prepurchase income in order to help conduct itself better.

It's a discussion about money and what justifies an exchange of money. I fail to see how asking for anything of value in exchange of money - be it a good, service, or otherwise - is not justifiable.

ps: My mother worked for a booking agency for fifteen years. I know all too well about the headaches that she has had to deal with regarding irate customers who had to deal with travel agents who were either unable to communicate their product or incompetent in doing so. I know about the calls that she has made to airlines, hotels, and resorts in order to conduct her business. Her work was a service. Your work is a service.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Our fight has concluded!
 
B

bro1

Banned
mibupe said:
I have enough money to pay for the system in my bank account right now if I wanted to. I put my money I receive as tips towards the system as well as $10 from my pay each week. I find this to be the easiest way. I wouldn't waste my money on shit if it sits in my bank account but it is always possible I suppose.
Click to expand...
I used to bartender when I was a kid and get the self control issues. One of the big steps of growing up though is putting your needs before your wants. If this truly is a need, then make it so. You wouldn't miss a rent/car payment would you?
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Because:

1) I don't wanna lend them money for nothing. Where's my interest?

2) I don't wanna get locked in with a certain retailer half a year before launch.

Thankfully, here in Sweden you can always pre-order stuff without paying anything upfront. I've got a PS4 pre-ordered, and I won't be paying a cent for it until I go pick it up.
 
B

bro1

Banned
teacupcopter said:
You are getting something ordered for you, so it can be picked up at 12:01AM on the night it comes out, at a launch party where staff will be working overtime, how is this not a service they are providing to you?
Click to expand...
Launch party? Service? I was a manager at GameStop back around 2000/2001. This is not a party. It's a fucking shift were there is no OT. You work less the rest of the week so they can avoid paying OT. Plus with the affordable care act, GameStop isn't giving anybody full time hours.
 
P

Pops Maellard

Member
Novocaine said:
Will you get it on launch day with free shipping though or do you have to pay for that?
Click to expand...

It was free for me, but I have Prime so that may be why. You could always grab the Prime trial a few days before the PS4 releases and get free release day shipping if it is indeed contingent upon being a Prime member.
 
H

Hilti92

Member
bro1 said:
I used to bartender when I was a kid and get the self control issues. One of the big steps of growing up though is putting your needs before your wants. If this truly is a need, then make it so. You wouldn't miss a rent/car payment would you?
Click to expand...
Never have missed them. I budget my money so I can afford to pay for everything and have money left over. I wasn't going to get a PS4 because I wouldn't be able to afford it with what I am currently saving for but GameStop had a trade in deal so I did it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have preordered it in the first place.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
teacupcopter said:
You are getting something ordered for you, so it can be picked up at 12:01AM on the night it comes out, at a launch party where staff will be working overtime, how is this not a service they are providing to you?
Click to expand...
The question isn't if it's a service or not.

The question is if it's a service that I find valuable enough to warrant me spending my money on it.

My personal answer is that it is not.
 
P

Persona7

Banned
I really just don't care. If I want to buy a game I hardly ever change my mind so pre-ordering early is no problem for me. Even if I did change my mind I could just put it on a different game. Putting down payments is also probably also popular. You can pre-order a game two months early and put down some money every other week or whatever fits your needs.

I used amazon quite a bit over the years but lately I have been switching back to gamestop/local stores because I keep getting damaged games through amazon prime. When gamecrazy was around I got all my games from there and always pre-ordered early and in full.
 
Darklor01

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Man, people caring about how others choose to spend their money is seeming to get ugly.

This "issue" seems to be feeding back into itself. People should spend their money as they wish where they want and how they want. Simple. End of story.

If people don't like policy from a company, don't shop there. Someone's point of view that its stupid to preorder with money down at a retail store, may not line up with another persons point if view that its fine with them TO do so. OK. No problem. It just doesn't seem right to shove in their face why it's a stupid act for this or that. I deal with that enough as is from smoking cigarettes from others who have either quit or don't smoke. I try to respect other people's right to live how they wish, as long as it isn't harming other people. Especially those I love.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Folks, it's not really about the interest. It's more like an insurance policy that you'll actually come and pick up the game after you've preordered. GameStop makes more money when you pick up the product then when you don't.

Amazon doesn't do it because if you preorder there the game is just automatically going to get shipped to you unless you specifically cancel.
 
Woo-Fu

Woo-Fu

Banned
I don't see any reason to put money down for something I'll be able to get without putting money down from any number of other places.

Same way I see no reason to pay extra for multiplayer on console when it is free on PC.

If there is one thing that "online" has made easy it is educating yourself before giving somebody your business. Why give it to somebody who isn't giving you the best deal?
 
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