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GDC: Phil Spencer on Future of Gaming Across the Microsoft Ecosystem *Live Now*
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
The bigger man will admit to mistakes. Props.
thehillissilent
Member
For people who are worried about loss of Xbox One sales, MS desperately needs their tablets and phones to sell, so Windows 10 UAP is huge for them. It will get people to invest in the ecosystem. The ecosystem is very important. Look at Apple and Android.
TheSlySoul
Member
Yep.
The amount of new software sales will make up for any potential Xbox One sales.
They can cater to the console and PC demographic and get profit from both. It is a win/win for them.
Bigger online community, ease of use, play with friends, controllers, cheaper and the other reasons
Poodlestrike
Banned
So... wait. If you have no intention of ever buying anything from Microsoft ever (sans OS)... why did you watch the event? Did you expect Phil would announce the formal closure of all non-Windows divisions of Microsoft?
We can follow this logic backwards some. Why did Microsoft stop making games like Gears of War and Halo for PC in 2007ish or so? Because, at that time. Microsoft didn't need to give Windows any help. Windows was at the peak of its power, as what was essentially an unassailable monopoly. By contrast, Xbox was still a relatively fledgling endeavor that needed all the help it could get. And so, it made sense to make games exclusively for the Xbox. Where were PC users going to go instead? Macintosh?
But now, Windows has lots of competition. iOS is eating Windows share rapidly. Android exists. Even Macintosh has taken a larger share of the pie in recent years. Windows is no longer in an unassailable position, and thus keeping Microsoft media off of it just because reasons no longer makes sense for the company as a whole.
TrackZ
Member
Xbox hardware has no reason to go away. It just becomes a cheap fixed spec and gaming focused pc. They can refresh it much more frequently. It's win-win for MS.
Folks here that claim now they don't have reason to buy an Xbox because of this direction may never have bought one anyway. Many other people still will though that don't want to build their machines.
Folks here that claim now they don't have reason to buy an Xbox because of this direction may never have bought one anyway. Many other people still will though that don't want to build their machines.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, Microsoft is almost certainly completely okay with making sacrifices in the console space if it yields gains in the tablet/PC/phone space.
Delusibeta
Banned
The problem is that what we're talking about is Microsoft attempting to take on Steam from effectively scratch (there's absolutely zero value in the Windows 8 Store). Considering they already tried twice and failed twice (GfWL and Windows 8), I'm not holding out much hope on their third attempt.
It sounds kind of like a win-win to me. I would love to bypass the Xbox One and put that money towards a more capable machine. Microsoft still makes money off of me buying their games/services and they won't lose their shirt trying to entice me to buy a heavily subsidized console.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I didn't watch the event (it wasn't watchable as far as I know) but I did read through some of the stuff that has been posted online about it. As for why I am interested well being a PC gamer I wanted to see what Microsoft was going to do to try and become relevant in the PC marketplace again.
No I didn't expect Phil to announce the closure of all non-windows divisions of Microsoft. However at the same time I didn't expect to see Phil trying to drag the PC platform down the plug hole along with the Xbone and Windows phone either.
Define much more frequently. Every couple of years? That pretty much defeats the point of a console.
Yup, I'll gladly drop my iPhone and iPad for a nokia/surface, if windows 10 will work across all their devices.
Glomby
Member
I didn't say I care. I like the xbox as a console and thats why I like to talk about this. I'm also a PC gamer (and own all the other consoles as well) so I'm not losing anything.
The thing is, Sony and Nintendo think otherwise. Nintendo in particular knows that their console is alive because of its' exclusives and only its' exclusives, and Sony doesn't port their first partys either, because of the same reasons.
So there is actually no reason to assume this decision won't hurt the xbox, the problem is it will not only hurt the xbox, it will actually help sony and nintendo.
People in here say microsoft will make money with windows and xbox games on windows anyway, but can this really compensate the losses? Steam has like 150mil users now. This means people who didn't spend money to get steam and might spend money using steam to buy games. Steam therefore isn't a platform like the ps4 or xbox1.
On the other hand we had like 300mil consoles last gen (x360+ps3+wii). Thats 300mil people who spent a lot of money just to get these consoles plus the games they will buy.
Losing xbox means losing alot in this scenario and even if they just give up the xbox brand what do they have to win? There is this juggernaut steam waiting for them, it's going to be hard enough to compete with steam anyway.
All I'm saying is we have wittnessed microsofts next big mistake and they had a pretty good track record so far.
They have to support the pc gaming market but this strategy is just crazy and against anything the market is indicating right now.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I don't see them doing a yearly update if they did that i would instantly drop xbox and stick with a pc.
thehillissilent
Member
The problem is that you are ignoring Apple and Google and their ecosystems.
Exactly. Therefore, some will still get the Xbox One or a "Windows PC with an Xbox push" in the future.
This push may help the brand in territories outside of North America and the U.K.. It's obvious that the Xbox brand isn't attracting these territories via dedicated Xbox console(s). The worldwide presence of the Xbox brand could possibly improve a bit from Xbox games being easily available on the PCs that many use in those areas (alongside the Xbox PC app).
Overall, I think this push is better for the future of the Xbox brand worldwide than solely focusing/pushing everything alongside a dedicated Xbox console.
Dawnbuster
Member
I wonder if the profit margin on a console is less than the profit margin on a single controller. I kinda imagine that right now, it is.
Whether an Xbox game is on XB1, or PC, people are still buying Xbox accessories and joining the ecosystem.
Can't see how that's a bad thing.
Whether an Xbox game is on XB1, or PC, people are still buying Xbox accessories and joining the ecosystem.
Can't see how that's a bad thing.
I think it's time to get perspective here: the traditional console market is not a growing one. It's not particularly profitable, either, even for the "winners" like Sony right now or Microsoft last generation.
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but the reality is likely this: if this realignment ends up costing MS in the console space, I'm sure they're okay with that, as long as they can gain in the tablet/PC/mobile space instead. The tablet/mobile/PC spaces are much higher margin and (in the case of the former two) growing very rapidly.
I don't think that's a foregone conclusion, though. It's possible that a fixed spec PC will provide a different value proposition to gamers that appeals to more people.
justsomeguy
Member
This has interesting implications for Xbox two... I see a few options...
1) Ms launch xb2 and announce that they're moving away from pc/console unified platform
2) MS launch xb2 and double down on unified platform, making it not as exciting as everything will just work on existing pcs
3) Recognising #2, xbox 2 has to be an absolute beast of a machine blowing away PCs of the day
4) No xbox two. Instead a "steam machine" kind of branding/approach
5) Streaming from cloud only, no more console as we know it
1) Ms launch xb2 and announce that they're moving away from pc/console unified platform
2) MS launch xb2 and double down on unified platform, making it not as exciting as everything will just work on existing pcs
3) Recognising #2, xbox 2 has to be an absolute beast of a machine blowing away PCs of the day
4) No xbox two. Instead a "steam machine" kind of branding/approach
5) Streaming from cloud only, no more console as we know it
Goodacre0081
Member
why go halfway with this?
what they need to do is bring it all over to their unified platform. they're not going to make headway with the big IP's being on the XB1 only. having Halo, Forza and Gears headlining the push will make people take notice. if they don't then it will probably be another GfWL failure.
I definitely agree with most of your reasons here, but bigger online community is completely false. League of Legends alone has a larger community than the entire Xbox One install base, by a wide margin.
But yes, ease of use and lower price are definitely two major drivers.
justsomeguy
Member
Agreed but the loss of xbox live subscriptions will make a big dent. A lot of store sales need to happen to make up for that
So I'm still trying to see the problem. Developers can still make games for Steam if they choose. More MS games probably won't go to Steam but that's all you'll be losing. Indies can still make games for Steam as there's still the Windows 7 userbase (granted it'll prolly get small with Windows 10 being free to upgrade for the first year). I don't see how MS gaming their 3rd go around to GFWL harms you...unless they do take away games from Steam and more games go into the Windows Store. I mean, is it that big of a deal?
EDIT:
justsomeguy said:
You do realize how many people actually run Windows right? The sales they can get from releasing Halo 5 on PC alone could more than make up for that.
TheAdmiester
Member
Haven't heard a single word about this Windows 10 development conference that should be wrapping up about now. No info anywhere?
3 won't happen again given their comments on profitability with hardware.
I see either 4 or 5 personally depending on how they approach first party games on PC going forward.
LukasTaves
Member
Just as a add up, everything Ms is doing is following the leaked roadmap from prior Xbone reveal. In that roadmap #5 would be the route is taking.
I don't think it's about tablet, PC, and phone (hardware) sales either, but rather growth in users of Windows and Windows Services and revenue per user. If it was just about hardware sales then all the work they've done and are doing to make their key applications work on iOS and Android wouldn't make sense.
Nadella has worked really fast to break down the walled garden approach, making good on his statement last year of mobile experiences no matter the device or OS.
I think getting Xbox and Windows 10 working together is the first step and eventually we're going to hear about some kind of Xbox interface for iOS, OSX, Android, etc. Heck, maybe we even see them make nice with Sony for a Xbox app on the next Playstation.
I don't think Gold subs are going away. If anything they'll gain more perks.
There are plenty of ways they can make them valuable without locking online MP behind a paywall.
Will be 4...with the difference being a set spec they can rev about every 4-5 years
I'm honestly thinking the next Xbox will just be a straight up Windows PC with the Xbox app front and center.
Really seems like MS is going all in on this push for unification. Will be easier for games/apps to work and be accessed across various Windows platforms in the future. Little to no "this game is cross-play/cross-buy but this other game (or app) isn't"-confusion.
justsomeguy
Member
I reckon a steam machine approach is kinda likely.
and of course it means backwards compatibility is a non issue in the future
Assuming you are on Windows 7/8, you can for free during the first year of release. Secondly, you can't uninstall the store app. Thirdly, why would you? Seems preemptively dumb.
thehillissilent
Member
Yup, without the those big IPs, the pc userbase won't give a damn and MS knows this.
I was replying to a comment about buying multiplats on console instead of pc. Multiplats have bigger online communities on current gen consoles than pc
justsomeguy
Member
Less hacking too
That too
I understand that Microsoft would like me to upgrade from Windows 7 to 10. I'm pretty happy that I didn't make the jump to Windows 8, so upgrading to Windows 10 is an "if". I don't care if it's a free upgrade, the money is not the issue.
I had the displeasure of using GFWL. It's not "dumb" to not want more intrusive bloatware on my PC.
May not need all of the big name IPs. Remember that they can still target the casual gamer base. They still need to attract people to Windows Phone so if they can get those games on PC and phone, that's also a plus. Not everything needs to be with Xbox, but I do agree that having those big IPs on PC will make gamers take them seriously and attract them to the W10 platform.
This also makes the number of Playstations to the number of Xbox a little bit more meaningless. Windows sells licenses and that's how they tell their investors how much they sold. They don't say how many PCs are sold, just the licenses. Now with Xbox basically being a brand, the Xbox One being the PC of the living room, and the UAP for gaming is basically xbox, they won't say how many xbox they sold (if it's less than PS4), they will go off of how much money they generated by software sales of games (which is different than app alone). I think that's one of the biggest PR spins that Microsoft will use with this move.
cakely said:
The reason why I said it was dumb is because the store app is not only for gaming, it's basically the future for Windows apps. Win32 apps aren't really going to be as highly toted as before (besides games/Steam). I just think that "if" you are going to have a Windows 10 install, you wouldn't want to get rid of the only way to get upcoming apps. Tis all.
Goodacre0081
Member
might be crazy to think but this could be the signal of MS getting out of the console hardware market. today's talk really hammers home the services/publisher trend.
I doubt that they will for the simple fact that no one really has gotten a "good and open" app store/interface for the TV and they basically already have it (and will open it up with Windows 10). And as it keeps dropping in price and developers make compelling reasons to use their app (Home Automation with Kinect seems like a huge one with me), more people will buy the system, not just because of games but because of apps.
Can Crusher
Banned
I hope MS opens the floodgates. I don't give a fuck about the Xbox, let me play Halo and Quantum Break on the PC.
arhra
Member
I doubt they'd drop out of the hardware market entirely. Moving to something like the tablet/phone model might be a possibility, though - allow third-parties to license the OS and produce hardware with a fixed minimum spec, with MS producing a flagship reference model, much like the Surface Pro/Nokia phones/etc.
you are crazy, they are actively trying to become a "devices and services" company, so they will keep making devices to sell their services on.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
would be interesting concept.
Have three skus.
entry level - $400-$500
Mid Level - $500-$600
Enthusiast - $600-$700
Hit all levels of the market.
Glomby
Member
Actually I don't. I actually thought about Apple when I made these assumptions. Maybe I'm wrong but what makes Apple so strong? It's a fixed piece of hardware. A plattform that binds people to Apple and only to Apple. Apple controls this plattform and therefore everything on it, even third party applications. And speaking off Apps, there is the AppStore, iTunes etc. to make even more, or more precise the majority of the money.
But it's the combination of both thats makes them so succesfull. When you look at the gaming market there is only one thing that does the same, consoles.
But consoles and iphones are different. They take 7 years to make new consoles and only 1 year to make a new iphone and yet both cost the same or iphones even twice as much as consoles. Maybe if they make new consoles every 4-5 years it will help to make a lot more money. But Apple wouldn't kill the iphone to only make money with apps and itunes content. Why would they?
Why are you saying it's not a growing one? These new consoles sell faster then ever before, so it actually is growing. It's not the traditional console market anymore if you meant it this way. Online services have changed the market alot but not in a bad way. Sony makes a shitload of money with playstation, it's basically the only thing that makes them money now. No smartphones, tablets or TVs, consoles. So how can you say this?
And I'm talking about this from a gamers perspective, too. Microsoft has done a great job wth the xbox after their launch desaster. They made some pretty great exclusives for it and these have to compete with Sonys and Nintendos exclusives. But what happens if they aren't on the console market anymore, and this will inevitably happen with this kind of strategy? They only have to try to bring people to windows 10 and their store instead of steam. But this doesn't mean games it means sales and price wars.
The reason we don't have HL3 yet is Steam. Valve doesn't need it, why would they make games like this if they have steam? Once you have all the people on your plattform you're good. Consoles are gaming plattforms so they need to make these great exclusives as incentives for people to stay on these plattforms. Thats what consoles have to offer right now that you don't get everywhere else. The same goes for indies on PC.
Maybe I'm way to negative , but I think this is a bad move not just for xbox but for the market as well.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Not understanding why this would be bad for Xbox. I view this as good for both Windows AND Xbox.
I'm not a PC gamer. Never will be. But the Windows 10 integration makes me far more likely to go Windows Phone/Surface as a result. I'm buying a Surface 4 just for the streaming from Xbox. The rest is a bonus.
For PC gamers thinking about a console, surely these announcements make the Xbox an attractive proposition. Cross buy, cross save, cross play, streaming.
I'm not a PC gamer. Never will be. But the Windows 10 integration makes me far more likely to go Windows Phone/Surface as a result. I'm buying a Surface 4 just for the streaming from Xbox. The rest is a bonus.
For PC gamers thinking about a console, surely these announcements make the Xbox an attractive proposition. Cross buy, cross save, cross play, streaming.
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