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The EU wants to remove regional limits on digital goods

It seems to be that that's what this regional limit is trying to lift? Rather than suppressing the continent with German law, it's to open up regional restrictions on, say, Italian programming in the UK. The problem would arise where Germany's censorship law would be incompatible with such content (containing Nazi imagery etc.), but that would be up to Germany to restrict within its own region, not for them to restrict across the continent.

Frankly, this outlook is deeply cynical and stands contrary to the reigning paradigm of European policy.

I know what the law would be intended to be used for, but you've got to realise that it's the film companies who ultimately will decide what happens, and they're going to be doing what's going to make them the most money.

So at the moment if I'm in Europe, I can watch Frozen by flipping my account to Netherlands. Film studios probably realise this, but the problem isn't widespread enough to be much of an issue because of the hoops I have to jump through, most people can't be bothered or aren't aware of the possibilities. If however it's the law that I have to be allowed access to all EU regions of Netflix, what do you think is the most likely outcome? It's that Disney remove Frozen from Netflix in the Netherlands.
 

fedexpeon

Banned
The world is one country, lets start treating it as such. Lets start with less wars and more humanitarian work first though dudes.

In the next two decades, the world will be close to one globalize country.
US Dollars will be the primary market currency like today, but even more wide-spread.
English is becoming the 2nd language since nearly every school is teaching it in 1st/2nd world country.

Soon, when everyone shares a common language and economy, culture will form and adapt. We can look at India, JP, and SE Asia as an example of Western influence, sharing the same ideology of a global democracy as well.
 

Lusankya

Member
I know what the law would be intended to be used for, but you've got to realise that it's the film companies who ultimately will decide what happens, and they're going to be doing what's going to make them the most money.

So at the moment if I'm in Europe, I can watch Frozen by flipping my account to Netherlands. Film studios probably realise this, but the problem isn't widespread enough to be much of an issue because of the hoops I have to jump through, most people can't be bothered or aren't aware of the possibilities. If however it's the law that I have to be allowed access to all EU regions of Netflix, what do you think is the most likely outcome? It's that Disney remove Frozen from Netflix in the Netherlands.

How exactly is that ging to make them more money?
 

KiteGr

Member
Does this mean that i can finally buy the Xenosaga series?...

...no as those where made before the upcoming "region locking ban" era.

The damage is already done.
 

jiggles

Banned
Yea no. That makes no sense.

We already have games like TLOU censored region-wide because of Germany. You make it so the SCEE Stores are essentially combined in to one, I think it's more likely that lowest-common-denominator offerings are given than a major publisher flagrantly ignoring local censorship laws.
 
I doubt this can end well for us, tbh.

In the case of Netflix, you'd have less choice because instead of just combining all the different countries catalogues, they'd remove everything that wasn't available across Europe already. So new releases that hit in Netherlands months before anywhere else will just not happen. Some obscure film which is only licensed in France will be deleted completely. Etc.

In the case of games, we'd all basically have the censored German marketplace.

I doubt they would prevent the release of French language movies in France. Or be forced to dub it in 100 different languages. What would it matter if obscure movies in French are available in the Netherlands?
 

ramparter

Banned
I would love for Nintendo to be legally forced to abandon region restrictions.
Yup but EU can only force stuff inside Europe, like German Wii U user downloading from Portual Wii U shop.

Still it would b nice if I could subscribe to SkyF1HD from Greece and not have to rely on shitty online streams or downloading races hours after they ve been held.
 

Heartfyre

Member
I know what the law would be intended to be used for, but you've got to realise that it's the film companies who ultimately will decide what happens, and they're going to be doing what's going to make them the most money.

So at the moment if I'm in Europe, I can watch Frozen by flipping my account to Netherlands. Film studios probably realise this, but the problem isn't widespread enough to be much of an issue because of the hoops I have to jump through, most people can't be bothered or aren't aware of the possibilities. If however it's the law that I have to be allowed access to all EU regions of Netflix, what do you think is the most likely outcome? It's that Disney remove Frozen from Netflix in the Netherlands.

Of course, film companies have the ultimate say-so over the distribution of their content, yet this law would be limiting their options in the favour of the consumer. In your example, the Netherlands has Frozen on Netflix but not, say, in the UK. There are probably distribution reasons for this: perhaps there are more digital renting services in the UK compared to the Netherlands, so Disney would make more bank selling rented copies through Sky or other set-top boxes rather than releasing it on the British Netflix. However, the effect of this law would be that, yes, if Disney were to keep Frozen on Netflix in the Netherlands, it would have to release it on Netflix across the continent. Disney may not like that, and remove it from Netflix altogether, and that's their right. However, the EU effectively limits their digital distribution revenue by doing this. If they don't play ball, they make no digital revenue from Netflix in Europe whatsoever. There would definitely be cases where we'd lose some content access (though we could still watch Frozen on Netflix Australia), but the intent would be that there is a net benefit on European content, and fairness across the continent on access to films from the United States and elsewhere. Because it's anti-consumer that the Netherlands can access Frozen and no one else can, and is part of the digital restrictions that the EU wants to deconstruct. The end goal of this aim, to continue the example, is that the unified market would eventually force Disney to release Frozen on the whole European market, rather than allow them to restrict it to one region.
 
I doubt they would prevent the release of French language movies in France. Or be forced to dub it in 100 different languages. What would it matter if obscure movies in French are available in the Netherlands?

What if that French language movie hasn't been released in the UK yet, or a different company holds the rights to the movie in Italy, or it's banned in Germany, or whatever other reason?

Do you think they can just happily bang it onto Netflix anyway?
 

Hydrargyrus

Member
eu_flag-t2.jpg



Yeees!
 

ocean

Banned
Hmm... so would that mean an end to region locking, or just one EU super-region that we all share between, but the wider world is still divvied up?
EU super region. The reasoning being that the EU is a single market and no restrictions on trade should exist across borders. Digital should not be an exception.
 
If [Disney] don't play ball, they make no digital revenue from Netflix in Europe whatsoever. The end goal of this aim, to continue the example, is that the unified market would eventually force Disney to release Frozen on the whole European market, rather than allow them to restrict it to one region.

I've cherrypicked the important lines there, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong if I've overlooked something important.

What you've got to balance is the revenue Disney are making from having Frozen available in the Netherlands in Netflix against the revenue they're making from DVD sales across the rest of Europe. Obviously I don't have the figures, but I would be absolutely astonished if the DVD market wasn't worth substantially more.

Then you've got to ask yourself whether releasing Frozen around Europe on Netflix will make them enough money to compensate for the DVD sales that they lose. Again, I don't have the figures (no one can) but if Disney were to decide that they believe they'll make more money on DVD sales than Netflix, it means no more Frozen on Netflix in the EU. I don't think that decision would be unlikely.

Eventually Frozen would appear on Netlix across the EU, of course, but we're talking years after release instead of months later as was the case with Frozen in the Netherlands. When the DVD sales have eventually dropped off enough, and Frozen shows no signs of slowing down yet.
 

Hesemonni

Banned
Any gaming side examples of inter-EU regional limits for digital goods? The reason I'm asking is I haven't encountered any.
 

barit

Member
I doubt this can end well for us, tbh.

In the case of Netflix, you'd have less choice because instead of just combining all the different countries catalogues, they'd remove everything that wasn't available across Europe already. So new releases that hit in Netherlands months before anywhere else will just not happen. Some obscure film which is only licensed in France will be deleted completely. Etc.

In the case of games, we'd all basically have the censored German marketplace.

Would stupid Germany accept PEGI for their rating all this would be no problem

But Germany's government must protect their dumb citizens from themself so no chance. Just like the recent cannabis legalisation discussion over here last week. So many false arguments and really blind behavior from the old politicans about this subject it drives you crazy
 
I don't see this applying to games at all. You can already make regional, even by country, accounts. No IP blocking.

Netflix does block by IP though.
 

E-phonk

Banned
In the case of Netflix, you'd have less choice because instead of just combining all the different countries catalogues, they'd remove everything that wasn't available across Europe already. So new releases that hit in Netherlands months before anywhere else will just not happen. Some obscure film which is only licensed in France will be deleted completely. Etc.

Companies like netflix will always have to fight for content with competing/local content providers, so I doubt it will lead to less content as this will make their service less appealing.

Netflix is a mess at the moment in Europe to be honest. Some countries only get the locally dubbed versions, others only have subtitles in certain limited languages etc.. Netflix is really an example of why things need to change, even if it takes EU regulations to do so,.
 
This strategy has nothing to do with national laws like violence or child protection. With no ip block I could watch BBC content from my home even if I am not in the UK.

Then, if in my country that particular content is bannable this strategy would prevent access to said content because of my region law. At the same time I would be able to freely access the content that is authorized in my country.

This is good news.
 

Khaz

Member
Gonna be hard to pull this off due to copyright and licensing contracts, different VAT regimes, different localizations, different censorship/child protection laws, etc.

The thing is, you can already freely import anything from other countries, without added taxes or imaginary restrictions thanks to the Free market. The only legal restrictions are on alcohol and tobacco, and stupid stuff like weapons. The same way I'm able to, completely legally, browse through a local French DVD reseller to buy the complete Plus belle la vie DVD set and have it sent to my home in Germany, where it has never been broadcasted, translated or licensed, I should be able to do it with the streamable / downloadable edition. VAT is paid in the exporting country. Localisation can be mandatory for items sold from within the country, but it can't be for import stuff, even digital import. Same goes for other content laws like censorship and child protection / pornography stuff. If anything, it would allow for a better and faster harmonisation of the various laws currently existing.
 

Heartfyre

Member
I've cherrypicked the important lines there, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong if I've overlooked something important.

What you've got to balance is the revenue Disney are making from having Frozen available in the Netherlands in Netflix against the revenue they're making from DVD sales across the rest of Europe. Obviously I don't have the figures, but I would be absolutely astonished if the DVD market wasn't worth substantially more.

Then you've got to ask yourself whether releasing Frozen around Europe on Netflix will make them enough money to compensate for the DVD sales that they lose. Again, I don't have the figures (no one can) but if Disney were to decide that they believe they'll make more money on DVD sales than Netflix, it means no more Frozen on Netflix in the EU. I don't think that decision would be unlikely.

Eventually Frozen would appear on Netlix across the EU, of course, but we're talking years after release instead of months later as was the case with Frozen in the Netherlands. When the DVD sales have eventually dropped off enough, and Frozen shows no signs of slowing down yet.

I'm sure only Disney know their sales numbers, definitely. Coincidentally, I'm living in the Netherlands at the moment, and I've seen DVD and Blu-Ray copies of Frozen at the supermarket. So despite its availability on Netflix, there are still physical versions of the film on sale here, and I'd presume they're making bank. My argument would be that it appears that it remains viable for Disney to sell DVDs and a digital broadcast license to Netflix at the same time. I should also point out that it's not just Frozen on Netflix over here, but almost all of Disney's catalogue.

I'd presume also that they'd make substantially more from DVD sales than Netflix licensing, but it seems they can co-exist. All the same, the EU isn't really taking economic factors into account when drafting this law, for better or worse. It's espousing the European ideal of unpartitioning the marketplace, and spreading this to the digital marketplace as well. The reality is that it won't please very many content providers, who have enjoyed a semblance of an ability to control the availability of their digital content. However, I personally don't have a lot of sympathy for them. This law's intent, regardless of the consequences, is trying to ensure a fairness of access for all digital goods across the continent, local laws permitting. This would be great for Netflix, simplifying their licensing process for Europe, but not for individual provider control. Regardless, there's a lot of money to be made on a continent-wide license for Disney and others, and if they would want to ignore that in favour of physical sales, they can do that if it's more economic for them. At least it ensures fairness on the digital marketplace for all Europeans, even if we watch Frozen on Netflix together in 2022.
 

Memory

Member
In todays world digital region blocking makes no sense for any product unless it violates a law in certain countrys.
 

Condom

Member
I doubt this can end well for us, tbh.

In the case of Netflix, you'd have less choice because instead of just combining all the different countries catalogues, they'd remove everything that wasn't available across Europe already. So new releases that hit in Netherlands months before anywhere else will just not happen. Some obscure film which is only licensed in France will be deleted completely. Etc.

In the case of games, we'd all basically have the censored German marketplace.
Legislation is far more expansive than just the point in the article. Before it will become law, such issues will have been addressed.

The whole reason the EU is doing this is to curb illegal downloading and promote legal offers. They are not doing this just because, with the chance of services being limited.
 

arhra

Member
Any gaming side examples of inter-EU regional limits for digital goods? The reason I'm asking is I haven't encountered any.

Most of the examples I can think of would probably fall under the "truly necessary" clause, mostly due to Germany's laws regarding Nazi symbology (ie, Wolfenstein), or their over-zealous censorship of violent content (a whole bunch of games have been hit by that, although I think they've been more relaxed in recent years).

The only question would be whether restrictive single-country ratings regulations would meet the "truly necessary" requirement (ideally, more countries would just switch to just having PEGI as the sole arbiter of video game ratings, like we did in the UK a few years ago).

If this goes through, I'd actually be slightly worried that this might cause more companies to take the approach Sony have had with some recent releases (ie, the blood/gore being removed in TLOU multiplayer), and just release a single European version that caters to the lowest-common-denominator in terms of censorship.
 

entremet

Member
This is just within EU nations.

The EU has no power to enforce this worldwide, and that's good due to currency differences.
 

Walshicus

Member
What if that French language movie hasn't been released in the UK yet, or a different company holds the rights to the movie in Italy, or it's banned in Germany, or whatever other reason?

Do you think they can just happily bang it onto Netflix anyway?

I'm guessing the point of this is to make it so that a different company *can't* own distribution rights within the EU, and that online distribution in one state is distribution in all.
 

CTLance

Member
We had a thread about this earlier this month I believe, but I'm not complaining.

Sure, this will complicate rather than simplify things for a while, but in the long run I believe it's gonna be awesome. I'm all for this even if it means it's gonna be worse (less content) before it gets better (uniform content).
 
This seems like a bad thing...

..if goods can't be locked out...then countries like Germany with tough legal restrictions on violent games would shit in the pool for everyone else to swim in.

Publisher can't release zombie sniper IV in Germany?
Publisher has to make zombie sniper IV available without border limits?
Publisher doesnt release Zombie Sniper IV at all or at least uncut.
 

Khaz

Member
I'm guessing the point of this is to make it so that a different company *can't* own distribution rights within the EU, and that online distribution in one state is distribution in all.

Distribution rights are mainly tied with localisation rights anyway. Publishers could still make deals for local distributions with dubs and subs, they just won't be able to prevent the customer from going to a foreign publisher and buy their dubless / subless digital edition. It would revitalise the European digital market by forcing competition on non-localised content, while still protecting the localisation copyrights.
 

Khaz

Member
This seems like a bad thing...

..if goods can't be locked out...then countries like Germany with tough legal restrictions on violent games would shit in the pool for everyone else to swim in.

German laws allow a German citizen to import a DVD that can't pass censorship for local distribution. Customs can only seize items that are not allowed to be imported, such as counterfeit products. Uncensored content can go through customs freely, why wouldn't it be the same for digital content?
 
German laws allow a German citizen to import a DVD that can't pass censorship for local distribution. Customs can only seize items that are not allowed to be imported, such as counterfeit products. Uncensored content can go through customs freely, why wouldn't it be the same for digital content?


Because this sounds like it wants a freely open Euro steam/psn etc rather than country by country versions. So there will be no Austrian steam/psn to get buy/import from...its just one big Euro marketplace...and that would mean its technically a German store.
 
I don't think this is saying get rid of individual netflix services for each country, just they can't say either "THIS IP/ACCOUNT IS FROM COUNTRY X, YOU CAN'T USE COUNTRY Y'S SERVICE"

I don't know how people are misconstruing it as something else when it's so clearly stated.

the implication is that you wouldn't be forced to download or stream from a country-specific service. If you wanted to watch French Netflix from Germany, for example, you could.
I don't see how this in any way implies a unified storefront.
 

arhra

Member
Because this sounds like it wants a freely open Euro steam/psn etc rather than country by country versions. So there will be no Austrian steam/psn to get buy/import from...its just one big Euro marketplace...and that would mean its technically a German store.

You could still have separate-by-country digital stores/services.

You just wouldn't be allowed to block people from any part of the EU using any EU-country store/service.

Consider the physical equivalent - Amazon have multiple sites within the EU (.co.uk, .fr, .de, etc), but they aren't allowed to say that only people in France can order from the .fr site, or whatever.
 

Occam

Member
Region locking needs to be outlawed.
Unfortunately this is only about not having separate regions within the EU.
 
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