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Nirolak · May 25, 2015

This was from a presentation about trying to enter the Japanese mobile game market as a foreign company and how that often goes poorly.

The same tends to be true for the retail market.

VentureBeat said:
Its easy to look at Japan and assume that if youre making a game you should release it in there as well, but the raw data is deceiving, according to Kantan Games analyst Serkan Toto. At the Casual Connect Asia conference in Singapore earlier this week, Toto gave a presentation that highlighted some important points that he would want developers to know before entering the Japanese market. Most notably, he pointed out that its not nearly as easy to make money from gamers in that country as you might think it is.

...

The average revenue per gamer who spends money on in-app purchases (ARPPU) in Japan is about $65 every month. Thats a very high number, but youre probably not going to capture even a dollar of that if you release your Western game in Japan historically speaking. The country has long preferred to consume Japanese-made products over foreign releases, and thats especially true in gaming.

Source: http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/24/w...ing-market-isnt-great-for-foreign-developers/

Finale Fireworker · May 25, 2015

Incredible.

Edit: That's more than a retail console game costs. So they're paying that every month for more plays of Puzzles and Dragons?

Just wow.

desmax · May 25, 2015

That's pretty amazing

adamantypants · May 25, 2015

Coincidentally, about the same I pay as a AAA gamer.

Nirolak · May 25, 2015

adamantypants said:
Coincidentally, about the same I pay as a AAA gamer.

Yeah, if you buy about one new retail game per month, and then some DLC on occasion, this is about the same.

dakkumauji · May 25, 2015

Finale Fireworker said:
Incredible.

Edit: That's more than a retail console game costs. So they're paying that every month for more plays of Puzzles and Dragons?

Just wow.

That's less than how much a retail console game costs in Japan though.

Plus minus the cost of buying the console when you already have a phone.

BassForever · May 25, 2015

Does Japan just have a huge gambling problem or something the amount of F2P/P2W gatcha games that do well over there is staggering

Decado · May 25, 2015

i wonder what the median number is?

Wowfunhappy · May 25, 2015

dakkumauji said:
That's less than how much a retail console game costs in Japan though.

Y'know... if this is the case... and the market for console games in Japan is shrinking... why haven't they lowered the price of console games?

I mean, they're $60 here in the west, so one would assume that's a perfectly sustainable price.

bigkrev · May 25, 2015

BassForever said:
Does Japan just have a huge gambling problem or something the amount of F2P/P2W gatcha games that do well over there is staggering

P A C H I N K O

Busaiku · May 25, 2015

Wowfunhappy said:
Y'know... if this is the case... and the market for console games in Japan is shrinking... why haven't they lowered the price of console games?

I mean, they're $60 here in the west, so one would assume that's a perfectly sustainable price.

Not all games are that price.
Many games are similar prices to here in the US (after exchange rates), but game prices are not uniform.
RPGs are typically the more expensive types of games.

Nirolak · May 25, 2015

Finale Fireworker said:
Edit: That's more than a retail console game costs. So they're paying that every month for more plays of Puzzles and Dragons?

I feel I should note they're not necessarily spending this on just one game at a time, though they certainly could be.

Regulus Tera · May 25, 2015

BassForever said:
Does Japan just have a huge gambling problem or something the amount of F2P/P2W gatcha games that do well over there is staggering

gambling is illegal in Japan, though they are motions to legalise it

DeSolos · May 25, 2015

Japanese gamers stop ruining console gaming with your stupid sexy money T.T!

sprsk · May 25, 2015

As someone who has a bit of experience in this field, I have to say while it may not be this huge money funnel for most companies, at the very least you should always do a Japanese localization for your mobile game.

If you have a 2 million word epic RPG featuring knights and dragons and shit and it's all fully voiced, I'm not sure a Japanese localization is going to be worth it. Most mobile games though are low on text content (2500-5000 words average) and almost never have voice, so the cost of localization is way low, and the overall risk is waaaay smaller than it is than it is on the console market.

If you want to get on the level of what King and Supercell are doing here that's another thing, you'll need your own local branch and a shit ton of ad dollars for that, but a few thousand dollars just to get your game in Japanese is gonna be worth it. The reason being, Japan doesn't really fuck with English only apps whereas a lot of other major western territories might. But if you got a good Japanese loc in there from the get go, Japanese gamers do appreciate that, and the whole "omg western games sux" stigma can definitely be overcome (especially these days).

Scum · May 25, 2015

A Nirolak thread? A Nirolak thread.

I, for one, welcome our new mobile gaming Overlords.

ATXAlchemy · May 25, 2015

adamantypants said:
Coincidentally, about the same I pay as a AAA gamer.

Nirolak said:
Yeah, if you buy about one new retail game per month, and then some DLC on occasion, this is about the same.

dakkumauji said:
That's less than how much a retail console game costs in Japan though.

Plus minus the cost of buying the console when you already have a phone.

To break it down...

65 USD just a bit less than 8000 JPY. Assuming we take the physical copy's price as the SRP, then...
(Edit2: This is based on current google currency translation. Last year, yen was much stronger. Only important if you're comparing to other currency.)

Prices can range from mid-5000 to 8000 JPY. Super Robot Wars series, for example, take generally take the high-end of the spectrum, usually being higher than 7500 JPY. Dragon's Crown also had a huge price tag on it (8400JPY). PS3 Sen no Kiseki II also had the same price tag. (VIta was 1000 cheaper)

Gust's Atelier series for example goes for 6300-ish. A lot of games (assuming we don't take into account how big the game is) would target around 6000 JPY price point. Games that are aimed at kids (or aims to have as much audience as possible) would also tend to go to lower price point, sometimes even lower than 5000 JPY mark (as SRP). But I doubt many kids go into IAP of mobile games.

This is where it varies more:
A lot of shops offer these for about 1000 JPY cheaper. Sometimes, even the publisher does it on PSN to make their digital ver. competitive (Atelier goes for 5555-ish IIRC).

AmazonJP is the prime example of this. When pre-order listings start, you can be assured that it is cheaper than the SRP.

Edit: Not counting DLCs, of course. Do we even know the attach rate of DLCs on... well, anything?

Saprol · May 25, 2015

Puzzle & Dragons accounted for approximately 51 percent of all mobile-game spending in Japan in 2013 on its own. These days, between Puzzle & Dragons and Monster Strike, the two games probably make up around 70 percent to 80 percent of the entire markets spending, according to Toto.

That market dominance. $65 a month on rolling for characters / refilling stamina / getting more inventory space.

serversurfer · May 25, 2015

Gamers spend money on games? Why does this surprise us, exactly?

I'd be more interested in hearing about what mobile games they are playing — if they only play stuff like Clash of Clans begrudgingly — and why. It seems like the only decent advice the guy has for people wanting to make games that do well in Japan is "Make a good game that people want to play." Oh, and don't be cocky. Accurate advice, perhaps, but not particularly useful. =/

Edit: Guess I need to find out what Puzzles & Dragons and Monster Strike are.

BocoDragon · May 25, 2015

I used to think of myself as being very much like the typical Japanese gamer... But here we part ways. I don't understand buying gems, characters, crap like that. It's just not why I play games.

Veins · May 25, 2015

BassForever said:
Does Japan just have a huge gambling problem or something the amount of F2P/P2W gatcha games that do well over there is staggering

From a BBC article on Pachinko:

It sounds elaborate for a game, but pachinko is both big business and a national obsession there are more than 12,500 pachinko halls in Japan, some with slot machines, which together make four times as much profit as all the rest of the worlds legal casino gambling combined. The game itself generates 30 trillion yen profit a year for the pachinko companies.

Cheesecakebobby · May 25, 2015

Now we know why they don't want to ban whale hunting.

Usobuko · May 25, 2015

Veins said:
From a BBC article on Pachinko:

Wow, that's crazy.

faridmon · May 25, 2015

Konami's move validated even more!

kswiston · May 25, 2015

Veins said:
From a BBC article on Pachinko:

For those who don't follow exchange rates, 30 trillion yen is close to $250 billion USD

Apple's net income last year was $40B for comparison.

Opto · May 25, 2015

Explains Konami's move. You wouldn't get that much profit from MGS or SH.

duckroll · May 25, 2015

Regulus Tera said:
gambling is illegal in Japan, though they are motions to legalise it

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Biggest joke ever.

faridmon · May 25, 2015

kswiston said:
For those who don't follow exchange rates, 30 trillion yen is close to $250 billion USD

Apple's net income last year was $40B for comparison.

Woof!

Neuromancer · May 25, 2015

I would personally rather buy one retail game for that amount.

Blackpanther25 · May 25, 2015

bigkrev said:
P A C H I N K O

Currently living in japan and those Pachinko shops are everywhere. They have Pachinko for adults and some kind of pseudo Pachinko like machines for children (monster hunter and etc).

Regulus Tera said:
gambling is illegal in Japan, though they are motions to legalise it

There are multiple loopholes in japan for a lot of things that should illegal.

Fuu · May 25, 2015

Veins said:
From a BBC article on Pachinko:

It sounds elaborate for a game, but pachinko is both big business and a national obsession there are more than 12,500 pachinko halls in Japan, some with slot machines, which together make four times as much profit as all the rest of the worlds legal casino gambling combined. The game itself generates 30 trillion yen profit a year for the pachinko companies.

Click to expand...

kswiston said:
For those who don't follow exchange rates, 30 trillion yen is close to $250 billion USD

Apple's net income last year was $40B for comparison.

I was aware that pachinko was big, but holy shit.

AngryNapkin · May 25, 2015

That one industry pulls in that much in Japan alone?

Goddamn

kswiston · May 25, 2015

faridmon said:
Woof!

The more that I think about it, that figure almost seems impossible. There are only around 100 million legal adults in Japan, so they would have to be averaging $2500 a year each on Pachinko machines if that was just the gross revenue.

It would mean that more than 5% of the nation's entire GDP goes into Pachinko machines.

EDIT: Holy shit, doing some more digging, a number in that range is backed up by several sources. The Japanese spend 1/3 of all their leisure money (sports, travelling, hobbies, eating/drinking out, etc) on pachinko.

Ventara · May 25, 2015

kswiston said:
For those who don't follow exchange rates, 30 trillion yen is close to $250 billion USD

Apple's net income last year was $40B for comparison.

Holy crap! $250 Billion?!! Shit, even I'd do what Konami did with that kind of money that Pachinko pulls in.

QaaQer · May 25, 2015

Blackpanther25 said:
Currently living in the japan and those Pachinko shops are everywhere. They have Pachinko for adults and some kind of pseudo Pachinko like machines for children (monster hunter and etc).

They market gambling to kids? That is fucked, almost on the level of cigs targeting kids.

jholmes · May 25, 2015

I would like to know what the median is. I feel like that figure must be inherently skewed. By saying "gamer who spends money on in-app purchases," you're stripping out the vast majority who spend $0, but including the sad saps who get suckered in and drop four or five figures on a game. I feel like what people who spend on in-app purchases more likely spend is something like $10 a month, with the whales absolutely distorting everything.

And then I'd guess if you included all gamers, even those who spend nothing, the average amount spent is infinitesimally smaller.

Blackpanther25 · May 25, 2015

Untalkative_Bunny said:
They market gambling to kids? That is fucked, almost on the level of cigs targeting kids.

The same exact thing was running through my mind when I first stepped into the Capcom arcade.

OT: I can clearly see why Konami burned the bridges they did.

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