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Why does the phrase "lazy developers" get used so often?

P

PrivateRyan

Member
Remastered game without anything added to it? Lazy developers.

Graphics not as good on Console A as they are on Console B for a multiformat game? Lazy developers.

Game needing day one update to fix various bugs or glitches? Lazy developers.

We've all seen "lazy developers" thrown around as a catch-all phrase to explain away games not meeting expectations but why does that phrase persist so often when publishers - the ones setting the budgets and the ones enforcing deadlines - are surely the ones responsible?

What makes it stranger still is I think most gamers are now familiar with the image of overworked developers crunching past normal working hours, getting everything done to hit deadlines, and yet the phrase "lazy developers" crops up far more often than it should.

Why?
 
L

L~A

Member
Because people are too lazy to properly formulate their criticism. Throwing a "pfff, so lazy" is so much faster and effortless than actually putting a sequence of arguments forming a more or less coherent whole.

Because some people are ignorant and don't understand how game development works.
Click to expand...

That too.
 
I

Ibuki

Banned
They want to take it out on the people who worked their asses off making the game, instead of (like you said) the people making the budget or enforcing deadlines. It's really sad that devs always take the blame.
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
KennyLinder said:
Because some people are ignorant and don't understand how game development works.
Click to expand...
And we are done here.

Devs are not free of criticism, and maybe some of it can steem from them not going the extra mile, but the general audience doenst know how to arriculate why something is not good enough.
Watching opinions from the dev side is sometimes funny and sad at the same time.

And then there the publishers that literally throw the devs under the bus, and they cant defend themselves as to burn any bridgs in the future. Those cases are plentiful.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
99.9% of people who talk about video games have absolutely zero idea how games are made.

Most commenters on games would never admit it, but their idea about development of games occupies a space in their mind that might as well be called "magic". No idea of how coding works, deadlines, business realities, etc.

"Lazy devs" makes sense in this unreality where devs just have to "try hard" and a game will be good.

The truth is that no one sets out to make a bad game. If a game has flaws, everyone who made it probably knows it, and they'd know how to fix it if they had time. They don't have time.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
The game industry is full of crunch time, where do developers get time to even be lazy?

You're literally forced to work past overtime for the next 6 months. The only time you can get lazy is when you're laid off after the game ships. :/
 
E

eFKac

Member
Ehh it's a verbal shortcut in most cases I assume.

Just like "no games" or "Naughty Dog's greed is out of control"
joking, I think the guy from the last one is serious
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't even think most gamers understand game mechanics all that well (let alone technical and business processes). You could coast through an entire life of gaming without really understanding the basic elements of games, how they work and are balanced with one another. And these are front-facing elements, not under the hood...
 
D

Doofcake

Member
Lazy forumgoers mostly, but I will agree that "lazy developers" is justified for the Dishonored "Definitive" Edition. A game that my old laptop can run at 60fps that they didn't bother optimizing for the new consoles to make it at least run at 60fps. It simply has the PC graphics and 1080p, so I guess since the PC version runs at 60fps on a shitty laptop, the PC version is the definitive version instead.
 
M

mclem

Member
I think it expresses the right sentiment the wrong way. The issue is always basically "This thing that I felt ought to have been done was not done", but because people tend to view games as a purely artistic endeavour (i.e. assume the developer has effectively-infinite resources and are trying to make the best game possible with no constraints) it becomes the developer who's the 'culprit' for not doing that. It's an idealised view of game development, and lots of people are very attached to the idealised way of doing things.

In reality, finances, time, and other resources play a huge factor, and so the developer is trying to do the best they can with what they've got - and that explicitly means killing some of your babies. There's still valid criticisms that can be built up around "This thing that I felt ought to have been done was not done", though, it's important to note that that in itself is not A Bad Thing To Say - but it should be pitched in terms of them not spending enough resources on it (which in turn could be due to not having enough resources in the first place, spending them wastefully, or prioritising other aspects and letting that fall by the wayside). And even then, there's different reasons for those aspects.

Were you allocated insufficient publisher resources because you're making a niche game that they don't think will recoup the budget you want? Or was the publisher just being a bit stingy? Did you spend wastefully because you planned poorly, or did a sudden unexpected development catch you out (Harmonix/Kinect springs to mind)? And prioritising is always a question of having to make some tough calls.

This is more nuance, and more introspection than many people exhibit when discussing games. In fact, I'd go further; this is more nuance and more introspection than many people want to exhibit when discussing games. For many, it's simply a case that "This thing that I felt ought to have been done was not done" is because the developers couldn't be bothered.
 
borborygmus

borborygmus

Member
I wish Square Enix were "lazy devs" and went with UE4 instead of developing Luminous.

Lazy developers are generally more efficient. We need more Lazy Devs!
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
"Lazy devs" is basically the equivalent of a hivemind comment, especially when it comes to something like the teams of people making games.

Devs aren't just one entity, they're usually a group of different individuals with different viewpoints and ideals making something in tandem.
 
R

Renekton

Member
It's pretty blehr when gamers with zero industry experience says "just do X, it's not rocket science"

What's worse is when you try to be balanced or even devil's advocate, some GAFers label you a corporate shill.
 
E

EloKa

Member
because of lazy posters. No arguments = instult someone to be heard.

The less you know about game development or programming in general the louder you have to call someone a "lazy dev" because you simply cannot understand whole stuff behind it or argue on a fact basis.
 
G

gelf

Member
Its lazy criticism. I suspect very very few projects that suffered problems were due to laziness. If the dev was that lazy the publishers would fire them.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
comadorcrack said:
Also sometimes devs are actually lazy
Click to expand...

But if they are, how can a game even exist?

The game industry works like a chain. Programmers have to do something so the artists can keep up with it, which is followed by QA people who have to test for bugs, which is followed by the directors/producers who have to make sure everything is running on schedule and is following a certain vision. One guy not doing anything screws everyone else, which will then prompt immediate action from wherever the funding is coming from (CEO/Publisher).

I can't see laziness being tolerated in AAA environments. For indie games (where teams are small and the people involved are close friends as opposed to being recruited) I guess some laziness can permeate. But then that should result in the obvious of a game either taking a really long time to develop or just simply development stops all together.
 
W

Wulfram

Member
They really mean "cheap developers" but haven't made the link that dev time = money

edit: Or possibly "cheap publishers" or "devs who ran out of money"
 
S

SlipperyFishes

Banned
eFKac said:
Ehh it's a verbal shortcut in most cases I assume.

Just like "no games" or "Naughty Dog's greed is out of control"
joking, I think the guy from the last one is serious
Click to expand...
He at least tried to explain his position more than "lazy devs" as opposed to defaulting to the overzealous defence of Naughty Dog is kind of refreshing.
 
M

MaxiLive

Member
Yep, as everyone else has said just a super lazy criticism aimed at the annoyance of the games design or short comings.

Working in a studio myself I don't know of one person who could be classed as lazy and 90% of the devs go wayyyyyyyyy beyond their job role to get a game done. The amount of passion you see form developers is just outstanding and something I haven't personally seen in any other industry .
 
J

jman2050

Member
This comes from the same train of thought that people use to declare professional athletes as "lazy" or "not trying their hardest" or any such nonsense. It's not sufficient for a person to either be stymied by external forces or even to simply be inadequate for the job, they must be willfully holding themselves or others back because obviously this can't be the best they can do given the circumstances. They're depriving us, their well-paying customers, of the entertainment and accomplishments we know they're capable of providing and they should be ashamed for cheating us!

You won't play games by lazy developers because games made by lazy developers don't get finished. Much like how "lazy" athletes never become professionals in the first place.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
It's pretty much only used by angry entitled geeks with no regard for developers beyond the entertainment they derive from them.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
Blaming only the publisher, lack of funding, or management is also a simplification though. In some cases it actually is related to inexperienced and unmotivated developers.
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
I don't think anyone really thinks developers are sitting playing Solitair or updating their Facebook instead of working, but because a lot of people don't really know what devlopers are doing lazy has become a sort of shorthand for a product just not being good enough in the eyes of the consumer either because it's technically or mechanically broken. It's not always a case that someone who enjoys playing games understands (or cares) how they're made, but if the result comes across as sloppy, then "lazy" is probably the most apt response.
 
P

patapuf

Member
Shiggy said:
Blaming only the publisher, lack of funding, or management is also a simplification though. In some cases it actually is related to inexperienced and unmotivated developers.
Click to expand...

Inexperience i'll give you. I'd love to see examples of issues that can be traced back to "unmotivated developpers".

Lack of cash and time is way less reductive than "lazy".
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
MaxiLive said:
Yep, as everyone else has said just a super lazy criticism aimed at the annoyance of the games design or short comings.

Working in a studio myself I don't know of one person who could be classed as lazy and 90% of the devs go wayyyyyyyyy beyond their job role to get a game done. The amount of passion you see form developers is just outstanding and something I haven't personally seen in any other industry.
Click to expand...
This is an important point.

People hired in the game industry are done so by their portfolios and not degrees. That means, their quality has to be better than the rest. Quality = the more effort you put in to make yourself stand out.

Unless your networking skills are top notch, a lazy/bad portfolio will always get rejected when applying for a game job.
 
C

Chandler X Bing

Member
I find it to be a deplorable thing to say. Do they think that these people don't show up to make the best game that they can, and sit around all day slacking off?
 
M

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
Having worked now worked in a development environment, I find it an extremely offensive thing to say coming from ignorant gamers sitting behind their keyboards at home. I think there are many instances where developers fall short, but they probably have one of the toughest jobs in the world, and a lot of gamers don't seem to appreciate that.
 
P

Podge293

Member
sometimes they are just straight up lazy and it's evident

but it's generally a catch all term for when people are upset/disappointed with the quality of the product when they expect something better giving the price point
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
This became a thing with the PS3.

Sony went on and on about how it was so much more powerful than the competition. Multiplatform games didn't show this. First party games on PS3 did look good though.

Therefore the peeps making the multiplatform games must be lazy developers for not extracting as much performance from the PS3 as the in house teams who were making game engines specifically tailored to the PS3's unusual hardware design.

Every multiplatform game that wasn't leaps and bounds better on PS3 = clearly lazy developers. I get the impression some people actually believe that while the teams were making games, the guys who were supposed to be working on the PS3 portwere asleep at their desk or outside playing hackysack or some shit.
 
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