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B-Dubs · Nov 13, 2015

The entire thing is worth a read. If this doesn't convince you that this isn't an issue that can be left to the states then I don't know what will.

The illegal gun trade in the United States is basically fueled by the states with lax gun laws. Illegal guns aren't coming into places like NYC from out of the country, they're coming from Georgia and the South.

In California, some gun smugglers use FedEx. In Chicago, smugglers drive just across the state line into Indiana, buy a gun and drive back. In Orlando, Fla., smugglers have been known to fill a $500 car with guns and send it on a ship to crime rings in Puerto Rico.

In response to mass shootings in the last few years, more than 20 states, including some of the nations biggest, have passed new laws restricting how people can buy and carry guns. Yet the effect of those laws has been significantly diluted by a thriving underground market for firearms brought from states with few restrictions.

About 50,000 guns are found to be diverted to criminals across state lines every year, federal data shows, and many more are likely to cross state lines undetected.

In New York and New Jersey, which have some of the strictest laws in the country, more than two-thirds of guns tied to criminal activity were traced to out-of-state purchases in 2014. Many were brought in via the so-called Iron Pipeline, made up of Interstate 95 and its tributary highways, from Southern states with weaker gun laws, like Virginia, Georgia and Florida.

The economics are straightforward: A low-quality handgun that sells for $100 in an Atlanta store might sell for $500 or $600 in New York City, researchers say and it can be transported cheaply. By contrast, the majority of guns used in crimes in Texas, Georgia and other states with more lenient gun laws are purchased in-state.

The New York Times examined gun trafficking by analyzing nine years of data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, as well as an index of state gun laws developed by researchers at Johns Hopkins University.

Law enforcement officials express frequent frustration that they are not able to track every gun that crosses state lines, which means the estimates here are conservative. When the police do recover a gun tied to criminal activity, typically after an arrest, they can trace the gun to where it was last sold through a federally licensed dealer.

Chicago offers perhaps the starkest example of trafficking. There are no retail gun dealers within city limits, because Chicago has some of the tightest municipal gun regulations. Yet bringing a gun into Chicago can be as simple as driving less than an hour to a gun show in Indiana, where private sales are not recorded and do not require a background check.

If youre in the city of Chicago on the South Side, you may be closer to Indiana than you are to the Magnificent Mile, said Roseanna Ander, executive director of the University of Chicago Crime Lab, referring to a well-known part of Chicagos downtown.

Many guns follow a complex path from the original sale to the underground market. Most guns are originally bought from retail stores, but people who cant pass a background check typically obtain guns from friends, family or illegal dealers.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/12/us/gun-traffickers-smuggling-state-gun-laws.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

I quoted a bit, but the whole thing is absolutely worth a read.

DrForester · Nov 13, 2015

This is why I think state gun laws are useless gestures made to give politicians an ego boost and the appearance they've done something. It needs to be National.

theepicoftyler · Nov 13, 2015

I always wonder why people point to the high amount of gun violence and the strict gun laws in Chicago as an example of the failure of gun control. It's pretty easy to get a gun in every direction around Chicago for hundreds of miles.

B-Dubs · Nov 13, 2015

DrForester said:
This is why I think state gun laws are useless gestures made to give politicians an ego boost and the appearance they've done something. It needs to be National.

They help a bit, but with the ATF being kneecapped and the gun show loophole (among other things) it makes fighting the spread of guns from states with lax laws to those with strict ones a losing battle.

Fuchsdh · Nov 13, 2015

DrForester said:
This is why I think state gun laws are useless gestures made to give politicians an ego boost and the appearance they've done something. It needs to be National.

State laws can certainly help, but yeah it's never going to be that effective with a patchwork compared to a cohesive national strategy.

You can say that about any issue though, and with the current limits on gun laws created by the Supreme Court you're not going to see a federal solution any time soon, especially as what we already have would be far more effective if not kneecapped by legislation.

Alx · Nov 13, 2015

In California, some gun smugglers use FedEx.

I would have thought FedEx would scan all its packages through x-rays. Most of them travel by plane, don't they ?

Ignatz Mouse · Nov 13, 2015

Whenever somebody online brings up Chicago's gun laws and how the city still has tons of gun violence, I point out that it's a 15 minute drive from the worst neighborhood in the city to the Indiana state line. The city itself is literally on the border-- it's no wonder gun laws aren't that effective.

What they are effective in doing is adding to the time served by the people who get caught.

May16 · Nov 13, 2015

In California, some gun smugglers use FedEx.

I'm picturing this as a commercial and it's kind of funny.

But since it's not a parody, it's really the opposite. Wow.

Mammoth Jones · Nov 13, 2015

Majority of illegal guns in NY come from south carolina.

Palmer_v1 · Nov 13, 2015

I'm kind of surprised to see Nebraska and Iowa have relatively strict gun control. I wonder why that is.

Veritigo_X · Nov 13, 2015

It's always funny when conservatives point to Chicago as proof that gun laws don't work. I guess some don't realize that Chicago isn't a bubble. It's literally a 30 minute drive to Indiana and some of the laxest gun laws out there.

Sho_Nuff82 · Nov 13, 2015

This is why we need Sweden-esque laws for any transfer of firearm from person to person. Every gun sale should have a paper trail.

Horns · Nov 13, 2015

We allow the states to undermine the effectiveness of other state's firearm laws. It's pathetic.

rrs · Nov 13, 2015

Palmer_v1 said:
I'm kind of surprised to see Nebraska and Iowa have relatively strict gun control. I wonder why that is.

not really, seems to be just getting a permit to buy a handarm. Compare Kansas to Nebraska

entremet · Nov 13, 2015

Sho_Nuff82 said:
This is why we need Sweden-esque laws for any transfer of firearm from person to person. Every gun sale should have a paper trail.

Yeah. This is the biggest loophole right now for criminal gun use.

Even police unions are for better state restrictions.

B-Dubs · Nov 13, 2015

Sho_Nuff82 said:
This is why we need Sweden-esque laws for any transfer of firearm from person to person. Every gun sale should have a paper trail.

See, this makes too much sense to be implemented.

Mammoth Jones · Nov 13, 2015

B-Dubs said:
See, this makes too much sense to be implemented.

Problem is it's a State level thing. So it's done in NY but not in SC and because of that the entire thing falls apart.

Raptor2155 · Nov 13, 2015

Veritigo_X said:
It's always funny when conservatives point to Chicago as proof that gun laws don't work. I guess some don't realize that Chicago isn't a bubble. It's literally a 30 minute drive to Indiana and some of the laxest gun laws out there.

Seriuosly. This topic was brought up on The Five and one of the ignorant clowns thought the idea of "gangbangers"going out of state to get guns was ridiculous. Yeah, maybe the street gangs aren't doing it themselves but somebody is getting the guns for them.

Omegasquash · Nov 13, 2015

Mammoth Jones said:
Problem is it's a State level thing. So it's done in NY but not in SC and because of that the entire thing falls apart.

Yup. Needs to be federally regulated.

Eighty Deuce · Nov 13, 2015

Omegasquash said:
Yup. Needs to be federally regulated.

Won't happen, enjoy the black market your gun regulations create.

MiniBossBattle · Nov 13, 2015

FedExing a gun sounds surreal.

Funky Papa · Nov 13, 2015

Compulsory national registration, end of non-supervised personal sales and periodic checks would take care of that.

Ignatz Mouse · Nov 13, 2015

Eighty Deuce said:
Won't happen, enjoy the black market your gun regulations create.

Any regulation of anything creates a black market. So what? The idea is to lessen the gun violence where its occurring, and a Federal system would improve that.

Funky Papa · Nov 13, 2015

Eighty Deuce said:
Won't happen, enjoy the black market your gun regulations create.

Brilliant deduction.

Crime exist because laws define it. If we abolish laws, there will be no more crime.

Walpurgis · Nov 13, 2015

This is also where criminals in Canada get their guns.

B-Dubs · Nov 13, 2015

Eighty Deuce said:
Won't happen, enjoy the black market your gun regulations create.

You realize that it's the unregulated states that are creating the black market for the gun trade right? If they got their shit together and put in regulations like NY/NJ you wouldn't see a map like that.

Walpurgis said:
This is also where criminals in Canada get their guns.

It's also where the criminals in Mexico get them.

Walpurgis · Nov 13, 2015

B-Dubs said:
It's also where the criminals in Mexico get them.

That can't be right! Donald Trump told me that Mexico sends their murderers and rapists to America! Obviously, they're bringing their cartel weapons with them. It happened in the War of 1812 and it's happening today. Good Americans are dying because of this!

B-Dubs · Dec 2, 2015

I'm bumping this due to the San Bernadino thread and people's inability to understand how easy it is for people to bypass local gun laws.

theprodigy · Dec 2, 2015

B-Dubs said:
I'm bumping this due to the San Bernadino thread and people's inability to understand how easy it is for people to bypass local gun laws.

apparently nobody else here cares....

interesting stuff though

Ignatz Mouse · Dec 2, 2015

I think it's early and a bit too specific given that we don't know who the shooters are or how they got their weapons yet.

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