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The Coen Brothers: Questions about diversity are "idiotic"

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I

Inferno313

Banned
Joel, Ethan. Not like this guys.

The Coens are quite possibly my favorite working directors, so to hear this come from them is a little disappointing.

The Daily Beast’s Jen Yamato asked the Coens to address the “overwhelming whiteness” of “Hail, Caesar!” in the face of ongoing discussions about Hollywood’s low level of diversity. “I asked the Coens to respond to criticisms that there aren’t more minority characters in the film,” she wrote. “In other words, why is #HailCaesarSoWhite?”

“Why would there be?” replied Joel. “I don’t understand the question. No — I understand that you’re asking the question, I don’t understand where the question comes from.

“Not why people want more diversity — why they would single out a particular movie and say, ‘Why aren’t there black or Chinese or Martians in this movie? What’s going on?’ That’s the question I don’t understand. The person who asks that question has to come in the room and explain it to me.”
Click to expand...

“It’s an absolute, absurd misunderstanding of how things get made to single out any particular story and say, ‘Why isn’t this, that or the other thing [included]?’” answered Joel. “It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how stories are written. So you have to start there and say, ‘You don’t know what you’re talking about.’“

“You don’t sit down and write a story and say, ‘I’m going to write a story that involves four black people, three Jews, and a dog,’ right? That’s not how stories get written. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand anything about how stories get written and you don’t realize that the question you’re asking is idiotic.
Click to expand...

Source: Coens: Questions about diversity are 'idiotic'
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
Real Hero said:
‘Why aren’t there black or Chinese or Martians in this movie? What’s going on?’

OH BOY!
Click to expand...

One-of-These.png
 
K

Kinyou

Member
To be fair, they say it's idiotic to single out a particular movie, not that the question of diversity in general is idiotic.
 
B

Blader

Member
Sounds like they interpret the question as "Why didn't you write more parts for minority actors?" and their response is, "We write the characters as race neutral, why would you even think we sit down to write characters as white/black/Asian?" Maybe?

But then of course the follow up would be, well if they're race neutral, then why couldn't you cast minority actors in some of those parts...

(Then again, how much of a bastion of diversity was 1950s Hollywood?)
 
S

StWilson85

Member
Atrocious phrasing from them. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, as A) I'm a fan and B) HC is about a bunch of Hollywood actors in the 20s, so of course there wouldn't be a much diversity*

But man,with statements like that martian one it's difficult. Certainly they shouldn't get a pass on that response.

*I haven't seen it, so I could be way off base.
 
J

JJMorris

Member
Read the article people:

“It’s not an illegitimate thing to say there should be more diversity in an industry,” Joel concluded. “But that’s not what that question is about. That question is about something else.”
 
X

xenist

Member
They're right though. Even if the reductio ad absurdum with the Martians seems weird.

Coming to expect diversity from a movie about 50's Hollywood written by a couple of middle aged white guys from Minessota is stupid. The solution to this lies in opening up avenues for diverse creators to make their stuff. Not running around with quotas, pestering people already making stuff.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
The movie is set in 1940s hollywood.....


There commets are odd, but being asked why there wasnt diversity in Hail Ceaser is a bit weird
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
“You don’t sit down and write a story and say, ‘I’m going to write a story that involves four black people, three Jews, and a dog,’ right? That’s not how stories get written. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand anything about how stories get written and you don’t realize that the question you’re asking is idiotic.
Click to expand...

yeah generally it's more like "beautiful white people do awesome things, oh and there may be some cute animals too"
 
R

Ridley327

Member
It's coming off a little weird and aggressive, but since it's a film set in the Hollywood studio system in the 50s, I don't think it's actually at all improper to have a predominantly white cast since, well, it was pretty goddamned white in that era of Hollywood.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
I mean, I see where he's coming from as far as the process of writing a story goes but damn that's an idiotic answer. like damn, at least acknowledge that the question has some merit instead of taking it as an insult to your own personal creative process.

I do look forward to their next movie starring four black people, three jews, and a dog though

JJMorris said:
Read the article people:

“It’s not an illegitimate thing to say there should be more diversity in an industry,” Joel concluded. “But that’s not what that question is about. That question is about something else.”
Click to expand...

ok that is more reasonable
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
Hail, Caeser! Is about Hollywood in the 1950s, which was overwhelmingly white. So it makes sense to have a mostly all white cast.

With that said, his response to the criticism was completely ignorant and tone deaf. I'm very disappointed by this, as they've made some of my favorite movies.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
Kinyou said:
To be fair, they say it's idiotic to single out a particular movie, not that the question of diversity in general is idiotic.
Click to expand...

Yes, but considering the fact that the only times they've cast minorities in significant roles in their films are Javier Bardem in No Country, Irma P. Hall and Marlon Wayans in “The Ladykillers”, and a white-washed Oscar Isaac in "Inside Llewyn Davis," it's a little troubling that they barely even seem to be aware of this issue.
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Blader said:
Sounds like they interpret the question as "Why didn't you write more parts for minority actors?" and their response is, "We write the characters as race neutral, why would you even think we sit down to write characters as white/black/Asian?" Maybe?

But then of course the follow up would be, well if they're race neutral, then why couldn't you cast minority actors in some of those parts...

(Then again, how much of a bastion of diversity was 1950s Hollywood?)
Click to expand...
That's my reaction. It doesn't seem like a big deal. The Martian line isn't very smart. But it kind of seems like he just got on a rant and said something stupid.
 
P

Peru

Member
sn00zer said:
The movie is set in 1940s hollywood.....


There commets are odd, but being asked why there wasnt diversity in Hail Ceaser is a bit weird
Click to expand...

1940s Hollywood wasn't all-white.

Same when people look at some period piece getting criticized and say "but that's how it was". No it wasn't. America, England, multicultural for ages. People have a skewed impression of certain periods exactly because of popular culture (mis-)representation.
 
A

Arthr2ShdsJcksn

Banned
I agree with them. Every movie doesn't need to be the perfect blend of the melting pot, especially when it doesn't make sense considering the context/period of the film.

<Edit>I can agree with the need for the discussion, I just don't know what the solution is.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
Kinyou said:
To be fair, they say it's idiotic to single out a particular movie, not that the question of diversity in general is idiotic.
Click to expand...

I think that's what their point was, but it's not necessarily phrased in a convincing or even intelligent way. Their examples of "diversity" will definitely be a sticking point along with their assumption that you have to write a character to be a specific race.

At the same time, the time in which this movie takes place, Hollywood was even more white than it is today.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
sn00zer said:
The movie is set in 1940s hollywood.....


There commets are odd, but being asked why there wasnt diversity in Hail Ceaser is a bit weird
Click to expand...

I have two thoughts on this:

1. The factual truth of Hollywood in this period is filled with minorities, many of whose entire ethnic identities are erased. Ask Rita Hayworth what I mean.

2. The Coen Brothers have never been "realist" filmmakers, their films have always taken place in an abstracted and absurd caricature of reality. They're the type of filmmakers who care more about an emotional truth than a factual truth, so why can't they slightly fudge the racial diversity of an era if they can fudge everything else about reality?
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Yamato asked whether they consider it important for filmmakers to add in issues such as diversity.

“Not in the least!” Ethan responded. “It’s important to tell the story you’re telling in the right way, which might involve black people or people of whatever heritage or ethnicity -- or it might not.”

“It’s an absolute, absurd misunderstanding of how things get made to single out any particular story and say, ‘Why isn’t this, that or the other thing [included]?’” answered Joel. “It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how stories are written. So you have to start there and say, ‘You don’t know what you’re talking about.’ “

“You don’t sit down and write a story and say, ‘I’m going to write a story that involves four black people, three Jews, and a dog,’ right? That’s not how stories get written. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand anything about how stories get written and you don’t realize that the question you’re asking is idiotic.

“It’s not an illegitimate thing to say there should be more diversity in an industry,” Joel concluded. “But that’s not what that question is about. That question is about something else.”
Click to expand...
In full context I get what they are saying, but how they framed it is... idiotic.
 
M

Mass_Pincup

Banned
Inferno313 said:
Yes, but considering the fact that the only times they've cast minorities in significant roles in their films are Javier Bardem in No Country, Irma P. Hall and Marlon Wayans in “The Ladykillers”, and a white-washed Oscar Isaac in "Inside Llewyn Davis," it's a little troubling that they barely even seem to be aware of this issue.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why I was a bit surprised when they said to not sigle out a movie. Their entire filmography sin't very different.
 
T

Trokil

Banned
sn00zer said:
The movie is set in 1940s hollywood.....


There commets are odd, but being asked why there wasnt diversity in Hail Ceaser is a bit weird
Click to expand...

Yes in the context of this movie the question was stupid and their reaction while a bit ignorant also actually understandable. You could as well have asked, why are there no more minorities in King&#8217;s Speech, well expect some Australians. This is also why I really hated the Help, the white washing of black history was terrible and in that context made no sense at all.

Edit: Maybe we should stop quiting this Clickbait like online media, using one sentence to make a story.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
The argumemt of "oh you dont write about race or religiom or dogs" might have merit if movies as a whole were not overwhelmingly white. But hey, I know nothing about writing or movie making. On the flip Hollywood knows nothing about diversity so I guess we are all clueless.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
gutter_trash said:
You do realize that their new movie is a time piece
Click to expand...

So which of their films are better about this? As I said earlier, the only times they've ever worked with minority actors in significant roles are: Irma P. Hall and Marlon Wayans in &#8220;The Ladykillers&#8221;, and a white-washed Oscar Isaac in "Inside Llewyn Davis".
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
Arthr2ShdsJcksn said:
I agree with them. Every movie doesn't need to be the perfect blend of the melting pot, especially when it doesn't make sense considering the context/period of the film.
Click to expand...

This "not every movie" thing starts to lose its weight when people say it every single time any movie is confronted with these subjects.
 
T

TheFlow

Banned
there were minorities working in hollywood during that time, their statement is just ignorant. Lumping minorities with fictional races.
 
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