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American woman beaten in 'segregated' bus

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This is a modern, Western democracy?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/801449.html

Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat

A woman who reported a vicious attack by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" on a Jerusalem bus last month is now lining up support for her case and may be included in a petition to the High Court of Justice over the legality of sex-segregated buses.

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers.


In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked "severe beating."

Shear, an American-Israeli woman who currently lives in Canada, says that on a recent five-week vacation to Israel, she rode the bus daily to the Old City to pray at sunrise. Though not defined by Egged as a sex-segregated "mehadrin" bus, women usually sit in the back, while men sit in the front, as a matter of custom.

"Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'"

But Shear, a 50-year-old religious woman, says that on the morning of the 24th, a man got onto the bus and demanded her seat - even though there were a number of other seats available in the front of the bus.

"I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face."

Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle."

'Stupid American'

Throughout the encounter, Shear says the bus driver "did nothing." The other passengers, she says, blamed her for not moving to the back of the bus and called her a "stupid American with no sechel [common sense.] People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong."

According to Yehoshua Meyer, the eyewitness to the incident, Shear's account is entirely accurate. "I saw everything," he said. "Someone got on the bus and demanded that she go to the back, but she didn't agree. She was badly beaten and her whole body sustained hits and kicks. She tried to fight back and no one would help her. I tried to help, but someone was stopping me from getting up. My phone's battery was dead, so I couldn't call the police. I yelled for the bus driver to stop. He stopped once, but he didn't do anything. When we finally got to the Kotel [Western Wall], she was beaten badly and I helped her go to the police."

Shear says that when she first started riding the No. 2 line, she did not even know that it was sometimes sex-segregated. She also says that sitting in the front is simply more comfortable. "I'm a 50-year-old woman and I don't like to sit in the back. I'm dressed appropriately and I was on a public bus."

"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

Meyer says that throughout the incident, the other passengers blamed Shear for not sitting in the back. "They'll probably claim that she attacked them first, but that's totally untrue. She was abused terribly, and I've never seen anything like it."

Word of Shear's story traveled quickly after she forwarded an e-mail detailing her experience. She has been contacted by a number of groups, including Shatil, the New Israel Fund's Empowerment and Training Center for Social Change; Kolech, a religious women's forum; the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), the legal advocacy arm of the local Reform movement; and the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance (JOFA).

In the coming month, IRAC will be submitting a petition to the High Court of Justice against the Transportation Ministry over the issue of segregated Egged buses. IRAC attorney Orly Erez-Likhovski is in touch with Shear and is considering including her in the petition.

Although the No. 2 Jerusalem bus where the incident occurred is not actually defined as a mehadrin line, Erez-Likhovski says that Shear's story is further proof that the issue requires legal clarification. About 30 Egged buses are designated as mehadrin, mostly on inter-city lines, but they are not marked to indicate this. "There's no way to identify a mehadrin bus, which in itself is a problem," she said.

"Theoretically, a person can sit wherever they want, even on a mehadrin line, but we're seeing that people are enforcing [the gender segregation] even on non-mehadrin lines and that's the part of the danger," she said.

On a mehadrin bus, women enter and exit through the rear door, and the seats from the rear door back are generally considered the "women's section." A child is usually sent forward to pay the driver.

The official responses

In a response from Egged, the bus driver denied that Shear was physically attacked in any way.

"In a thorough inquiry that we conducted, we found that the bus driver does not confirm that any violence was used against the complainant," Egged spokesman Ron Ratner wrote.

"According to the driver, once he saw that there was a crowd gathering around her, he stopped the bus and went to check what was going on. He clarified to the passengers that the bus was not a mehadrin line and that all passengers on the line are permitted to sit wherever they want on the bus. After making sure that the passengers returned to their seats, he continued driving."

The Egged response also noted that their drivers "are not able and are not authorized to supervise the behavior of the passengers in all situations."

Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Avner Ovadia said in response that the mehadrin lines are "the result of agreements reached between Egged and Haredi bodies" and are therefore unconnected to the ministry.

A spokesperson for the Jerusalem police said the case is still under investigation.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Instigator said:
It's best to highlight her American citizenship. It will get more sympathy around here. :)
probably more "****ing israel we should bomb them all!" comments, too.


The ultra-orthodox community in Israel has as lot of problems... there's lots of hate between the different sects of judaism within Israel, especially around Jerusalem.
 

Matt_C

Member
To Hebrew speakers in NeoGAF, what is the word for boycott because that what those buses need to be. She did not go to a mehadrin and as a customer, she should not expect a mehadrin bus like experience. She did not go to temple, she just went on a bus.

In the Hebrew Torah, no I am not talking about the badly localized 'Old Testament', is there some exceptions to secular living in terms of peaceful coexistence with non-threatening gentiles
 

bogg

Member
Yep, messed up.
In some parts of Israel (ultra-orthodox places like mea-shearim, crime cities like ramle-lud) people live by their own rules, the government or the police don't do anything about it.

Matt_C said:
To Hebrew speakers in NeoGAF, what is the word for boycott because that what those buses need to be.
He he, people can't boycott egged, they are the biggest bus company in Israel, no other bus company even comes close.
 

Ashodin

Member
People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong."

Jesus. People keep perpetuating this crap, and this is how it happens. If no one stands up to the wrongs of the world, who will?
 
And awaaaaaaaaaaaaay we go


(Also I would like to say - it takes a real big man to beat up a fifty year old woman. Clearly he is also a man who treasures friendships, as he allowed three friends to help. Jerks.)
 

calder

Member
gywo.gif
 
I don't care what its over, but beating a women (especially elderly!) like that is just being a coward. And they pretend to be rightious and religious.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Instigator said:
This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back

Hypocrisy?

I mean she did pick a religion where the final words of the (men only) morning prayer is "We thank God for not making me a woman". The only justifying response i've ever heard to this is that it means "thank you God for making me a man so I can do even more for you", as in the torah ,men have 613 commandments that apply to them, while women only have a handfull of that number, which predomoninently apply to the 'tradional role (read:archaic) of a woman; housework, cooking etc.
 

DaMan121

Member
She picked it? Besides why cant she ignore parts of the religion that doesnt sit well with her ike all good Christians and Moslems do?
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
1) She's an Israeli
2) This is not an indication of Israeli's practices.
3) This has happened MANY times on NYC tour busses organized by Hasidic Jews.

And I highly doubt the woman was beaten -- the media, and the victim, often exaggerate to make a case. She was probably just pushed to the back or something. I'm sure she didn't sustain any injuries.

That said: Hasidic/Orthrodox Jews are NOT liked by the everyday Jewish populous.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
DaMan121 said:
She picked it? Besides why cant she ignore parts of the religion that doesnt sit well with her ike all good Christians and Moslems do?

Well it seems gender segregation and nominating entirely seperate roles for men and women is part of her religion. In which case it would seem naive of her to assume that followers of her religion wouldn't apply it any number of aspects of their lives, even trivial matters (i.e riding a bus).

This thread could really do with a Jew that can explain their religions stance of gender equality, since i'm being deliberately provactive.

And yes, everyone picks their religion, even with innate cultural and social bias, the facts are still out there for anyone willing to learn.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
xhadoukenx said:
Hypocrisy?

I mean she did pick a religion where the final words of the (men only) morning prayer is "We thank God for not making me a woman". The only justifying response i've ever heard to this is that it means "thank you God for making me a man so I can do even more for you", as in the torah ,men have 613 commandments that apply to them, while women only have a handfull of that number, which predomoninently apply to the 'tradional role (read:archaic) of a woman; housework, cooking etc.
Only a very, very, very select few Jews actually say that phrase. the vast majority of jews say something along the liens of "Blessed are you, Adonai, our God, Sovereign of the Universe, who made me in Your image." Or they simply say nothing at all.

and, in most of the orthodox community, the interpretation is just that which you have mentioned: Men have the privilege of being held to the commandments, while the women are not.


You can read more about it here http://www.kolel.org/pages/reb_on_the_web/shelo_asani_ishah.html
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
http://www.kolel.org/pages/reb_on_the_web/shelo_asani_ishah.html said:
Of course, there's something circular here, isn't there? The prayer itself is part of a system of belief and practice that reinforces a notion of male superiority, which in turn leads to a society in which it is a privilege to be a man, which leads men to say that prayer, which reinforces the notion of male superiority, etc.

There is another option, the one that most Jews have adopted: Step out of that cycle and let the One Who commands back into town.

Can someone clarify the last sentence?
 

JayDubya

Banned
Religion or not, I don't know what kind of man doesn't give up his seat on a bus to an old lady, let alone goes up to one and demands she give him her seat. If you can't be a gentleman, at the very least you can not be an asshole.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
xhadoukenx said:
Well it seems gender segregation and nominating entirely seperate roles for men and women is part of her religion. In which case it would seem naive of her to assume that followers of her religion wouldn't apply it any number of aspects of their lives, even trivial matters (i.e riding a bus).

This thread could really do with a Jew that can explain their religions stance of gender equality, since i'm being deliberately provactive.

And yes, everyone picks their religion, even with innate cultural and social bias, the facts are still out there for anyone willing to learn.
http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm

I think that site does a decent job at explaining the role of women in judaism. Take a gander.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Even in that article which seem's largely self aware and apologetic in regards to critisisms Judaism's view of women i'm still seeing sentences like;

Women are discouraged from pursuing higher education or religious pursuits, but this seems to be primarily because women who engage in such pursuits might neglect their primary duties as wives and mothers.

There is no question that in traditional Judaism, the primary role of a woman is as wife and mother, keeper of the household


a woman's voluntary recitation of certain prayers does not count on behalf of the group (thus women cannot lead services), and a woman's voluntary reading from the Torah does not count towards the community's obligation to read from the Torah.

All this talk of 'seperate but equal' seems largely patronising.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Basically, it's saying this; In judaism, men are given the privilege of being required to pray, and have power on the macroscopic level within the society (particularly in the synagogue), while the power of women is held more on the microscopic level of society (that is, within the family). If one only focuses on the prayer/synagogue aspect of judaism, one will come to a conclusion that men are superior to women. It is not the place of man nor woman to impose restrictions upon the other, to deem whether he or she is superior to the other. The idea is for women and men to have separate but equal roles, and it is only God's place to determine whose is the more important of them. If you end up with superiority complexes, it destroys the entire foundation of the system, and you end up completely disregarding the sheriff (God) completely.

I'm not sure if I did a good job at explaining it, but it's the best I can do, xhadoukenx.
 

joshschw

Member
this lady gets in big problems whereever she goes, she just moved away from here after having a big probelm with a market she opened here (michigan)

half the story is probably fake, just keep that in mind
 
sans_pants said:
there are idiot extremists that arent religious

"There are idiot moderits that aren't religious"- thats what they would probably say anyway.

This is ridiculous, but not surprising at all> Humans can be very stupid.

peace
 
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