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Male shop staff prevents suspected female shoplifter from leaving, protests ensue...?

On balance, were the shop staff's actions justified?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 83.3%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Need more information to be sure

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • Total voters
    30
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supernova8

Banned
Article doesn't provide full context, only vaguely describes a "violent confrontation" before he grabbed her by the throat (see below for my full breakdown based on a longer video)


"Crowds have gathered outside Peckham Hair and Cosmetics in Rye Lane after officers were called to reports a young black woman was trying to steal items but was prevented from leaving. She was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed."



Here's some more footage which seems to show the entire incident (albeit a bit spliced up, and with an annoying robot voiceover)

Looking at all the information available, here is what seems to have happened:

- Woman goes into the shop to ask for a refund (not sure what the original product was, why she wanted a refund)
- Shop refused the refund request (again, not clear why)
- Woman gets annoyed, starts taking things off the shelf
- Shop staff (unclear who the actual owner is) stands at the entrance and stops her from leaving
- She tries to force her way past him, shop staff pushes her back
- She slaps him in the face with her hand
- Shop staff pushes her more forcefully back inside the store
- Woman hits him over the head with the basket (seems fairly forceful, unclear how sturdy the basket is but I'm sure it's not pleasant)
- Her changes from pushing her to grabbing her by the neck and swinging her around
- Goes back to holding her by the arms about a second later
- Woman starts heeling him in the shins/stamping on his foot (unclear based on the video)

Video cuts out.

edit: some more related events via Twitter:



This one shows the woman attacking the dude with something (maybe a long comb or something, unclear) presumably after the initial altercation since there's already stuff all over the floor



another angle of her attacking him and also hitting stuff off the shelf



Here's some people in the shop (the shutters are down so not sure why they're inside) fighting with others (the Indian-looking dudes might be shop staff or friends/family not sure). Note that the little girl in the corner (pink hoodie) seems to be filming one of the taller girls/women (not sure about age) and then she seems to try to grab the phone off the smaller girl (presumably to stop her filming) at which point the dude intervenes and she starts fighting with him.



Some randomer on Twitter calling her stealing "personal compensation"



Fast-forward to 1:09, says there's no refund policy on the items the person wanted a refund for. The receipt being shown clearly states that (presumably she had a similar receipt). Looks like she wanted a refund on hair extensions or something.

Personally I'd side with the shopkeeper after seeing her be the one to instigate the violence.

From the perspective of a group coming out in support of the woman:

"Sistah Space, a charity which supports women of African and Caribbean heritage, criticised the police for arresting the woman. They told Sky News: "What we all saw in that video was traumatic. People do not understand how triggering this is to watch, much less to experience. "This black woman was attacked and there is no excuse for it, to add insult to injury she was arrested and the perpetrator was left alone at the scene of the crime. "She has been failed by the police and violently attacked by a criminal with no accountability."

Seems to conveniently leave out the part where she supposedly tried to steal items from the shop, as well as the part where slapped the shopkeeper first.

Also think it's weird that they are emphasizing "a black woman". Presumably the shopkeeper would have done the exact same thing no matter the race of the person trying to take items without paying. Plus, it's also telling that this group didn't explicitly pull out the race card because the shopkeeper wasn't white.

(This is not intended to be political in any way, just wanting a sanity check because the protest seems so bizarre and pointless)

Thoughts, fellow GAFers?
 
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humor situation GIF by BestTech


Justified. And if the protestors get 'fiery' the shopkeep would be justified for just about whatever. No more mollycoddling this behavior!
 

supernova8

Banned
UK has the most unattractive women imaginable, I feel truly sorry for them.
Yeah I moved to Japan a while back.
Asian women aren't inherently more attractive than any other race (loads of hot white, black, brown, green, turquoise women etc) but not being massively overweight obviously helps to make even the ugliest of people look at least somewhat visually pleasing.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I will never side with a shoplifter ever. And if it means the staff hold them till the cops arrive or gives them a smack to the face to keep them in line, they deserve it especially if the thief starts doing it first.

And before anyone brings up obscure examples like "what if a guy is dying from heat, forgot his wallet and needs to grab a drink", I'm talking normal situations where someone is just going on grabbing stuff under his jacket and walking out the door.

I'm no business owner, but I dont think a typical shop owner gives a shit who is stealing from them. They are all treated the same. As scum.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Yeah I moved to Japan a while back.
Asian women aren't inherently more attractive than any other race (loads of hot white, black, brown, green, turquoise women etc) but not being massively overweight obviously helps to make even the ugliest of people look at least somewhat visually pleasing.
That is true but I’m also surprised how bad UK women dress, even in London. It’s all greyish baggy stuff.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Far as I can see the shopkeepers only error was briefly putting his hands on her neck, but I don't think it was because he was trying to strangle her but just stop her from assaulting him.

Anyway the state of society can be depressing lol. The normalising of theft, the radicals like BLM or other groups protesting about this, just ugh.

I'm of Indian ethnicity, but born in Britain and thank the heavens I live in a fairly middle class country town and not in a diverse mess of a city filled with angry people who have never experienced a quiet life.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Yeah I moved to Japan a while back.
Asian women aren't inherently more attractive than any other race (loads of hot white, black, brown, green, turquoise women etc) but not being massively overweight obviously helps to make even the ugliest of people look at least somewhat visually pleasing.
I lived in JP and agree to the extent that less women over there dress like trash and there aren't many who are overweight. Partly because socially conservative values are still fairly widespread in their society. But still I find there are plenty of attractive women in the UK too.
 

supernova8

Banned
Far as I can see the shopkeepers only error was briefly putting his hands on her neck, but I don't think it was because he was trying to strangle her but just stop her from assaulting him.

Anyway the state of society can be depressing lol. The normalising of theft, the radicals like BLM or other groups protesting about this, just ugh.

I'm of Indian ethnicity, but born in Britain and thank the heavens I live in a fairly middle class country town and not in a diverse mess of a city.
I'm British too and from my experience Indian/British-Indian run shops have always been great. Honestly cannot imagine that guy being remotely racist (or at least not in this particular interaction).

Indian takeaways are generally pretty generous with just throwing in sides and stuff for nothing. Indian phone shops will often go the extra mile and give you something extra beyond what you paid for, like one time I bought an iPhone case and the guy was like "hey your screen protector looks pretty worn out, these are a fiver but since you're buying a case anyway, just give me a quid and I'll put it on for you, will only take a minute or so".

Also had a lot of British-Indian classmates in high school. They (along with the Chinese kids lol) always got the best grades presumably because their parents actually gave a shit and made them bloody study properly.
 
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GeekyDad

Member
Not sure what the limits are regarding "merchant privilege," but I don't think it allows for physical contact with a customer. Maybe it depends on the state. Now, the staff can (I would assume) defend themselves against violence, but I doubt they can physically make contact, only bar the way of exit with their body by some other mechanism.
 

supernova8

Banned
Not sure what the limits are regarding "merchant privilege," but I don't think it allows for physical contact with a customer. Maybe it depends on the state. Now, the staff can (I would assume) defend themselves against violence, but I doubt they can physically make contact, only bar the way of exit with their body by some other mechanism.
This is in the UK, so the laws on this are pretty much universal for the whole country (at least England, since this is in London).


This probably falls under "citizens' arrest", specifically:

Using reasonable force you can:
  • protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ – this includes using an object as a weapon
  • stop an intruder running off – for example by tackling them to the ground
The act states that you can arrest somebody to prevent them from:

• Causing physical injury to themselves or someone else
• Suffering a physical injury
Causing loss or damage to property
• Attempting to escape before a Police officer is able to assume responsibility of them


You could probably argue that he used reasonable force to prevent the individual from causing loss to property (ie the business)
 

CGNoire

Member
I didnt watch the footage so I aint taking sides but I will say this. Reguardless of what crimes shoplifting or other someone commits at a store unless your the owner who has a vested interest in the loss "employee staff" should never ever get involved" leave those legal potholes for the police or security. Its not worth the trouble and the average employee sucks at dealing with conflict and is more likely to make things worse not to mention ending up liable in someway. Just dont people. That being said I cant help but role my eye at the usual grifting and clout chasing suspects suggestting race played a role.
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
Protect your stuff from thieves. If you are stealing you already decided the law or rights don't matter, so why should the thief expect fair treatment when they engage in unlawful activities?
 

Joramun

Member
I think the lesson is to not skimp on theft insurance
Theft insurance has base minimum coverage. For example where I am it's a base of 10K. We had a break in at our office and camera gear worth 8K stolen. We couldn't claim insurance because it was under 10K. For a small business owner that's a lot. Insurance doesn't fix everything and they make you go through hoops for a pay out.
 
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Sleepwalker

Member
I feel sorry for the shop owner, someone tries to refund hair extensions presumsbly used? (Ew) and proceeds to try to steal after being told no, then assaults the shit out of you and THEN you get protesters defending the robber? Clown world.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Read the Spectator if you want a real take with balance on current event.

Good grief, EVERY quote in this article from these looneys had to have the (sic) added, are they just that illiterate or is the Spectator slyly making them seem so by choosing those quotes?

How we somehow normalized shoplifting is beyond me.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
I feel sorry for the shop owner, someone tries to refund hair extensions presumsbly used? (Ew) and proceeds to try to steal after being told no, then assaults the shit out of you and THEN you get protesters defending the robber? Clown world.
His shop / business is fucked it won't be able to open again.
 
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LordOfChaos

Member
As I always say, I'm staunchly pro equality, I'd be pro feminism by the dictionary definition of it, except most people who run around calling themselves that really want advantages, such as no consequences for women who perform the same actions as men, as if they're more like children.

I wouldn't advise physically restraining someone over some stolen goods if you're not a trained security guard or police, but I'm sure the same thing happened to thousands of men that day to no protest.

Also: Don't hit someone if you aren't prepared for violence in return, there's no gender to this rule but I feel like women aren't taught the same restraint
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
His shop / business is fucked it won't be able to open again.
Sure it will. You think that lady with the baby and the laziest sign imaginable can be out there for more than the time it takes to get her photo taken for her "Activist-mom" IG feed? If the city police have any sense they will quietly step away long enough for the local shopkeepers to bring in a few of the local boys to "join in some peaceful protesting with only scattered isolated incidents". Hell, just follow these idiots back to their flats or whatever and give them a taste of their own medicine and they will never show up again. It's all for show to troll for social media points and a cash grab.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I feel sorry for the shop owner, someone tries to refund hair extensions presumsbly used? (Ew) and proceeds to try to steal after being told no, then assaults the shit out of you and THEN you get protesters defending the robber? Clown world.
That’s because in life there’s a lot of weird low brow people who will always support thieves and trying to get away with dumbassery. Anytime they try to screw over someone or a business or government it’s “hey, I’m an entitled idiot. Gimme a break! You’re not going to notice if I screw you over. You still got more than I so who cares?”

Never stoop to bottom rung people.
 
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Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Sure it will. You think that lady with the baby and the laziest sign imaginable can be out there for more than the time it takes to get her photo taken for her "Activist-mom" IG feed? If the city police have any sense they will quietly step away long enough for the local shopkeepers to bring in a few of the local boys to "join in some peaceful protesting with only scattered isolated incidents". Hell, just follow these idiots back to their flats or whatever and give them a taste of their own medicine and they will never show up again. It's all for show to troll for social media points and a cash grab.
Wasn't how I meant it. What I meant was it will be a continual target now. Windows smashed / people deliberately on the wind up trying to goad the owner etc / graffiti / general ASBO activities / purple hair brigade...
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Wasn't how I meant it. What I meant was it will be a continual target now. Windows smashed / people deliberately on the wind up trying to goad the owner etc / graffiti / general ASBO activities / purple hair brigade...
Then call it what it is, a "hate crime", and lock the blokes up for reals. Why ANY city would tolerate abuse of their businesses and economic lifeblood is beyond me. Just set aside a few public areas for "protests" and strictly crack down on mobs, riots, vandalism, and social extortion elsewhere. Real working people got jobs and won't want to get caught up in this nonsense. Folks without jobs and nothing better to do than jump on a silly internet campaign...well, cut off their government dole and see how they feel about it.
 
Love how everybody is twisting the story to push their agenda as normal lol. The Caribbean charity making the woman out to be some helpless victim.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Women (what is even a woman now, right ladies?) are the same as Men, until they're not.

Low IQs doing emotionally manipulated Low IQ things. They're (powers that be) making everyone dumber and dumber preying on the tribal recesses as they have always done for thousands of years.
 

Amory

Member
Fuck thieves. The most sickening part of modern society is the rapid normalization of theft. wouldn’t piss on a shoplifter if they were on fire
 
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