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Digital Foundry: The Surge: PS4/Pro/XB1/PC Complete Analysis

adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKmJB629-0


General:
- Powered by Deck 13's in-house technology.
- Team has switched to Clustered deferred rendering to improve rendering performance.
- Particle system has been transitioned to the GPU instead of CPU making it possible to push a lot more particles.
- Up to 8 light sources can cast full dynamic shadowing in indoor areas.
- Loading times are extremely fast (4 to 5 seconds after death).
- Consoles offer Motion blur, slow mo, lens flare intensity etc options for customization.

PS4 Pro:
- "Might just offer one of the best PS4 Pro implementations we've seen"
- PS4 Pro offers "Quality" and "Performance" modes.
- Quality: 1620p / 30 FPS
- Performance: 1080p / 60 FPS
- Quality mode looks great with every rendering pass increased by 150%, no frame pacing issues, rock solid 30 FPS.
- Performance mode delivers very smooth stable 60 FPS with only a couple of very minor drops over multiple hours of game play.
- Down sampling also supported on 1080p displays.

PC:
- "Proper" PC version, not just a console port.
- Ultra wide screen, higher resolution and high frame rates supported out of the box.
- Most textures receive higher resolution treatment on PCs which plays well with high resolutions.
- Video shows comparison between all performance pre sets. Only downside is you need to restart the game for changes to take effect.
- Ultimately if you have the option, PC is the best way to play but console is no slouch.

PS4 and XB1:
- PS4 runs at 1080p and XB1 at 900p. Both at stable 30 FPS without any hiccups.
- SMAA leaves the image somewhat jagged.
- XB1 offers faster loading times than PS4.
- Screen space reflections enabled on XB1 but absent on PS4 and Pro in Performance mode.
 
G

Greatest Ever

Member
Game loads fast, fastest on Xbox One
Screen space reflections in One version, not PS4
900p on One, 1080p on PS4, 1080p or 1620p on PS4 Pro
Pro's performance mode is very stable 60 FPS, visual mode is stable 30
970 gets consistent 60 FPS at 1080p max settings, same for 980ti at 1440p
Lots of settings can be tweaked on consoles and PC
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ok. OP updated with summarized info from the video. If I missed anything notable, please point it out so I can edit that in too.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Greatest Ever said:
Game loads fast, fastest on Xbox One
Screen space reflections in One version, not PS4
900p on One, 1080p on PS4, 1080p or 1620p on PS4 Pro
Pro's performance mode is very stable 60 FPS, visual mode is stable 30
970 gets consistent 60 FPS at 1080p max settings, same for 980ti at 1440p
Lots of settings can be tweaked on consoles and PC
Click to expand...

Must have had enough left over running at 900p to enable it. I'm guessing 1080p couldn't do a solid 30, but 900p created overhead...so why not turn it on.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
The Deck 13 developer who replied to me here said that SSR is disabled "at the moment" in performance mode to provide a V-Synced 60FPS. There are two take away from this:

1) SSR not being in quality mode and base PS4 might be a bug.
2) SSR might get added back in performance mode in the future.

The post
d13phammer said:
We still use APEX (as well as PhysX) as physics middleware, but this time no more APEX turbulence (the CUDA-only particle system which is PC-/NV-only). APEX cloth and destruction are CPU based simulations and therefore cross-platform compatible. Since LotF we developed our own GPU particle system which is 100% cross-platform.

PS Pro has two modes to choose: "performance" (1080p, 60 FPS) and "quality" (2880x1620, 30 FPS). Me personally would go for 60 FPS because this really pays off in an action game.

Also, SSR is disabled at the moment, mainly to provide stable, v-synced 60 FPS without other visual compromises.

On PC, you also have some advanced quality options to get higher texture & shadowmap resolutions or higher volumetric lighting quality (buffer resolution).
Click to expand...
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Nachtfalke said:
Fantastic PS4 Pro support. I was interested in this game before, but this video sold me. The game is one the way.
Click to expand...
Yep, I was really impressed by the Pro support.

The only other game that I can think of which got close is The Last of Us Remastered but even THAT has a lot of slowdown at 60fps in some areas and is really just a remaster.

I feel like The Surge offers exactly what PS4 Pro owners wanted in the first place - a choice between high resolution or high frame-rate with both options being awesome.

The Deck 13 developer who replied to me here said that SSR is disabled "at the moment" in performance mode to provide a V-Synced 60FPS. There are two take away from this:

1) SSR not being in quality mode and base PS4 might be a bug.
2) SSR might get added back in performance mode in the future.
Click to expand...
From what I understand, they did encounter a bug before release and had to disable them BUT that bug is fixed and they do work. It's a matter of re-enabling them in a patch but the Performance mode remains an issue in that SSR can compromise the 16.7ms target. I'm feeling hopeful that they'll show up in a patch just like HDR support for PS4.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
^ SSR = Screen Space Reflections

It's just a way to do reflections, but it's drawback is that it can only reflect what is already on screen (hence screen space). So if you have a building and a reflective surface in front of you then only the parts of building that's on screen will get reflected on that surface. If the building isn't on screen then you won't see any part of the building being reflected.

Zombie James said:
They need to crank up that anti-aliasing. I just can't ignore all that shimmering, it's so distracting and in your face.
Click to expand...
They have all the temporal data from SSR and what not, so they can add a temporal filter to get rid of the shimmering. I'm not sure how that would work on consoles with regards to framerate but it'll work on PC atleast.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
InsaneTiger said:
I am glad you could turn off CA but what is SSR?
Click to expand...

Screen Space Reflections.

Missing in PS4, present on XB1. Basically it's reflections on surfaces, like wet places etc.

16ylgz.png
 
G

Gator86

Member
dark10x said:
Yep, I was really impressed by the Pro support.

The only other game that I can think of which got close is The Last of Us Remastered but even THAT has a lot of slowdown at 60fps in some areas and is really just a remaster.

I feel like The Surge offers exactly what PS4 Pro owners wanted in the first place - a choice between high resolution or high frame-rate with both options being awesome.


From what I understand, they did encounter a bug before release and had to disable them BUT that bug is fixed and they do work. It's a matter of re-enabling them in a patch but the Performance mode remains an issue in that SSR can compromise the 16.7ms target. I'm feeling hopeful that they'll show up in a patch just like HDR support for PS4.
Click to expand...

Really all I want. Get your shit together, devs.
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
Cool beans, glad this is being worked on by the devs. Pro support is great.

Arcane should be ashamed of themselves, especially putting Pro support on the damn box.
 
B

belvedere

Junior Butler
dark10x said:
Yep, I was really impressed by the Pro support.

I feel like The Surge offers exactly what PS4 Pro owners wanted in the first place - a choice between high resolution or high frame-rate with both options being awesome.
Click to expand...

Very much so. I had planned on buying Prey and decided not to. It's unbelievable that literally zero effort went into the Pro version.

The Surge is downloading now.
 
R

Renekton

Member
"Uses Nvidia APEX Particle system on PC"

I have a feeling this might suck for AMD cards :(

edit: corrected, thanks dark!
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Renekton said:
"Uses Nvidia APEX Particle system on PC"

I have a feeling this might suck for AMD cards :(
Click to expand...
I wasn't clear enough there, I guess - they used APEX for Lords of the Fallen but The Surge uses an in-house GPU particle system that works well across all platforms.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Really impressive Pro implementation and nice all around look to the game. I may pick it up down the line just to support that.

BTW Dark, is anyone at DF taking a look at Little Nightmares? It's another game from a small studio that has really excellent Pro support and it makes good use of a lot of UE4's features.
 
A

Anung

Un Rama
Thoroughly impressive Pro support. This should be the baseline support the system is getting from everybody.

Just really great work all round. Good going Deck 13.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
This is how you do PS4 Pro support, Deck13 have done a great job here and bigger / more well known developers should take note of this.
 
arhra

arhra

Member
Wonder what the odds are of this getting a Scorpio patch down the line. I won't be buying it immediately (if I was, I'd go PS4, as the Pro implementation sounds fantastic, but I've got more than enough on my plate already from earlier in the year), so I might just wait to see if they update it.

Judging by what they've pulled off on the Pro, it should be well worth the wait if it does happen (and if not, well, I'll get an excellent Pro version and save myself some money in the process).
 
N

NinjamicWZ

Banned
Ok, the PS4 Pro support, filesize and optimization has me sold. I was interested because Souls, but this took me off the fence and put me on the side of buy now.

They didn't mention HDR... anyone know? That's my icing on every cake.

It's funny that even though DF isn't a gameplay "review" oriented channel, their gameplay made the game look more exciting too. Not so meandering.
 
MoogleMan

MoogleMan

Member
Runs beautifully on my ultrawide.
I really wish more devs would bake in native ultrawide support.
The experience truly is something else.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
It should be noted that this sort of 2x increase in performance is probably not be possible in every game. The Surge most likely is quite CPU lite allowing it to hit 2x the framerate with Pro utilising it's powerful GPU...otherwise it wouldn't have been possible with that overclocked jaguar on Pro cause going from 30 to 60 puts load on CPU as it is but if it was already heavy on CPU it wouldn't have achieved that.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
dark10x said:
I wasn't clear enough there, I guess - they used APEX for Lords of the Fallen but The Surge uses an in-house GPU particle system that works well across all platforms.
Click to expand...

Do you think the new system looks better? Lords' particles were fantastic but I'd understand if they had to sacrifice some graphical fidelity for performance.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
Tagyhag said:
Do you think the new system looks better? Lords' particles were fantastic but I'd understand if they had to sacrifice some graphical fidelity for performance.
Click to expand...
The new system is better, on consoles LoTF used CPU for it and it looked fine while on PC it used GPU particles (specifically Apex particles) BUT wile it had good interaction it looked like ass at times and the density would be just too low. Basically it wasn't true to the original artistic choice.

Here it's using GPU particles on consoles and it looks great. It doesn't have the same level of interaction as APEX but it is dense.
 
W

WAR recon zero

Banned
nOoblet16 said:
It should be noted that this sort of 2x increase in performance is probably not be possible in every game. The Surge most likely is quite CPU lite allowing it to hit 2x the framerate with Pro utilising it's powerful GPU...otherwise it wouldn't have been possible with that overclocked jaguar on Pro cause going from 30 to 60 puts load on CPU as it is but if it was already heavy on CPU it wouldn't have achieved that.
Click to expand...

or the performance is above 30 but not close to 60, delivering an uneven experience.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
nOoblet16 said:
The new system is better, on consoles LoTF used CPU for it and it looked fine while on PC it used GPU particles (specifically Apex particles) BUT wile it had good interaction it looked like ass at times and the density would be just too low. Basically it wasn't true to the original artistic choice.

Here it's using GPU particles on consoles and it looks great. It doesn't have the same level of interaction as APEX but it is dense.
Click to expand...

Ah gotcha. I'd probably take denser than subtle interactions yeah.
 
F

FZW

Member
Definitely, hope they support Scorpio with this. The higher resolution textures thats on the PC is something we should see more often on Scorpio due to the extra memory. It is something MS been touting as well.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
icecold1983 said:
I recall DF having the opinion that apex particles looked worse than the games native solution in LotF
Click to expand...
I still kinda feel that way, to be honest. Switching from CPU to GPU for particles on consoles is big for a speed boost, though, and it's done without Apex.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
Damn that might be the best implementation on the Pro yet. Downsampling for 1080p users, almost flawless 60fps mode (at 1080p) and rock solid 30fps on the HQ mode.

Nice work.
 
N

NightOnyx

Member
It's great to see a studio put out such great support for the Pro. It's been frustrating to see lazy efforts or no effort with Pro support, like in the case of Arkane. I was planning on probably picking this up when it went on sale, but I'm going to pick it up at full price to support a studio who put in the effort to make all versions of the game run well, and in Pro's case, take advantage of the extra power and give the players a quality and performance mode option. Good job Deck13!
 
Feeroper

Feeroper

Member
For someone with a 1080p TV, I assume performance is the way to go? How much is gained on a 1080p screen with downsampling in quality mode, vs. the FPS gain from performance? Are there any additional effects present in quality that are missing in performance?
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
Feeroper said:
For someone with a 1080p TV, I assume performance is the way to go? How much is gained on a 1080p screen with downsampling in quality mode, vs. the FPS gain from performance? Are there any additional effects present in quality that are missing in performance?
Click to expand...

I have a 1080p display as well and I am playing in performance, it is awesome.
 
JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned
This kind of suppprt really should be the standard. I feel Sony has dropped the ball with the Pro, just a little, and Scorpio is going to make quality mode/performance mode/downsampling for 1080p universal benefits, which the Pro should do as well
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
JareBear said:
This kind of suppprt really should be the standard. I feel Sony has dropped the ball with the Pro, just a little, and Scorpio is going to make quality mode/performance mode/downsampling for 1080p universal benefits, which the Pro should do as well
Click to expand...
Maybe Sony thought devs would actually support it better but now the current situation and Scorpio on the horizon, Sony might implement some sort of system level support.
 
R

Rain City Gamer

Member
NinjamicWZ said:
Ok, the PS4 Pro support, filesize and optimization has me sold. I was interested because Souls, but this took me off the fence and put me on the side of buy now.

They didn't mention HDR... anyone know? That's my icing on every cake.

It's funny that even though DF isn't a gameplay "review" oriented channel, their gameplay made the game look more exciting too. Not so meandering.
Click to expand...

HDR is supposed to be patched in post launch. No time frame that I have seen for it though but it is "coming soon".
 
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